I used this EXTENSIVELY back when I played in Fallen Empires; I felt it was so important to know what my opponent had. Obviously, it still is, but I'm not so fixated on that.
To that end, I too would have to disagree with Dirk's assessment. Telepathy was a centerpiece in my early Wrexial build(I don't know why...I think I just liked forcing everyone to 'bare it all', lol). I've seen a lot of people since play it as well. My takeaway(and obviously Dirk's mileage has varied) has been that the person who plays Telepathy better win fast, or get hated out fast. Sure, the table will gang up on someone trying to combo, and shenanigans have to be more stealth shenanigan-y, but by and large, people like keeping secrets, and Telepathy rubs people that I've interacted with the wrong way. It's only human.
Now, glasses have a bonus in that YOU are holding all the cards. Sure, it only works on one guy at a time, but let us remember that EDH is a social format, yes? A sudden Tim Taylor "Uh-oh...!" provides some amusing distraction and redirection...all without you having to play suit.
It's asymmetrical, but not unfairly so in the eyes of your opponents. Though I admit I'm biased...I still have a playset, in fact. I should put one into one of my decks just for crits and giggles.
I would play this over Telepathy. I want to know things, I don't want to share that knowledge.
I think your opponents knowing what each other are running with is actually generally a benefit to you since they will be able to assess each other as a threat more easily and may lay off the guy who has a random dorky Telepathy in his deck.
I used this EXTENSIVELY back when I played in Fallen Empires; I felt it was so important to know what my opponent had. Obviously, it still is, but I'm not so fixated on that.
To that end, I too would have to disagree with Dirk's assessment. Telepathy was a centerpiece in my early Wrexial build(I don't know why...I think I just liked forcing everyone to 'bare it all', lol). I've seen a lot of people since play it as well. My takeaway(and obviously Dirk's mileage has varied) has been that the person who plays Telepathy better win fast, or get hated out fast. Sure, the table will gang up on someone trying to combo, and shenanigans have to be more stealth shenanigan-y, but by and large, people like keeping secrets, and Telepathy rubs people that I've interacted with the wrong way. It's only human.
Now, glasses have a bonus in that YOU are holding all the cards. Sure, it only works on one guy at a time, but let us remember that EDH is a social format, yes? A sudden Tim Taylor "Uh-oh...!" provides some amusing distraction and redirection...all without you having to play suit.
It's asymmetrical, but not unfairly so in the eyes of your opponents. Though I admit I'm biased...I still have a playset, in fact. I should put one into one of my decks just for crits and giggles.
man, your meta must be suuuper low power level for telepathy to draw hate. Usually when I play it, it reveals 5 kinds of scary BS that pulls the hate off me very quickly.
Besides, once it hits most of the damage is done, no sense crying over spilt milk. Hurting me won't let you have your secrets back.
well, telepathy is one-sided, but it's really easy to point at someone and say "that doomsday is gonna kill us all soon, get the guy!".
...but with sunglasses of urza, i can say "dude, this guy's holding up a pact of negation, so he can deal with anything drastic" (even if he might not have that in hand)... then combo the table off, expecting the last guy in APNAP order is going to deal with it. Thing is, the dude i just pointed out can't really respond either way without making him look like he has/doesn't have it, right? You can basically make anyone specifically a target by making things up once in a while at an opportune moment, and give the table an excuse to 'respond' to it, preemptively.
There are more nuances to the sunglasses that telepathy doesn't allow. I think it's good tech, especially if you can bluff your way through it.
I think there's merit to a light touch. The more you talk (pointedly), the more you look like a puppet master who must die. Also lying is going to work once before no one trusts you. And You're assuming you're a better actor than the guy you're framing...I think unless he's snidely whiplash he'll be able to at least make people skeptical of your claim and uncertain of the truth. And that's assuming he doesn't just reveal his hand to prove you a liar.
Idk it all sounds like cute theorycrafting that'll never work how you want in practice. Telepathy just...works.
man, your meta must be suuuper low power level for telepathy to draw hate. Usually when I play it, it reveals 5 kinds of scary BS that pulls the hate off me very quickly.
Besides, once it hits most of the damage is done, no sense crying over spilt milk. Hurting me won't let you have your secrets back.
Or, maybe people play it at the wrong time(because yeah...there IS a wrong time to play even Telepathy), which sets them up for a pretty bad fall. I'm not sure where power level theorycrafting fits in this commentary here...I thought this discussion was about the card and experiences with it.
Granted, Telepathy will reveal all(well, save for you) with no manipulations, but you know what? You(as in the player who cast it) are still an enigma. You are the one who is arguably the most dangerous. I feel it's like playing Seven Card Stud Poker, the other players have to play with their hands revealed, but can't see the hole cards. You can, AND you don't have to reveal your hand either. Hate's gonna gravitate towards that guy, especially if he wins consistently.
Glasses is more innocuous, even if it does permit, perhaps even encourage, 'puppet mastering'. Yes, you can only get away with lying a few times(maybe once), which is why you interject the truth now and again. Just as much a social format, EDH is also a POLITICAL format, which we all know involves sprinkling a bit of truth in with the lies. At that point, it's up to the 'puppet' whether they believe you or not. Your meta's mileage may vary with this...most I've played with enjoy figuring out what the truth is, and grudgingly concede to a 'lie well told'. Apparently, there are those who prefer their games as sworn testimony.
I can only speak for me, I suppose, but if you lied even once, I'd probably never trust you again. If you say "he's got a T&N" or something, I might be somewhat more apt to leave up counter mana, but I definitely wouldn't assume you were telling the truth again, ever. You'd need to tell the truth like 99%+ of the time for me to believe you outright. I'm certainly not going to go all-in killing someone just because you said he had a T&N, if you've told me lies in the past. Which begs the question of what you stand to gain, that you wouldn't also gain via telepathy. Is it your goal to make me keep up counters more often? If so, why? How does that benefit you? And if the other person does have a T&N in hand, I'd absolutely rather have believability on my side - because it's visible - than the opportunity to fake people out keeping up answers for stuff that isn't there.
Possibly it's because I play telepathy primarily in Phelddagrif, where, machinations aside, I'm never doing anything too devious. There's never a combo I'm hiding, or really anything particularly powerful at all, just a bunch of removal I'd rather not telegraph. But if the board states are fairly even, and hands are fairly innocuous, and telepathy guy is potentially likely to have worse stuff in hand...then sure, I could see that resulting in telepathy player getting hated on. But if that's actually happening, and you're the telepathy player, and you DON'T have anything to hide...you can just reveal you hand anyway. Telepathy is strictly better than revelation for that reason alone.
I can only speak for me, I suppose, but if you lied even once, I'd probably never trust you again. If you say "he's got a T&N" or something, I might be somewhat more apt to leave up counter mana, but I definitely wouldn't assume you were telling the truth again, ever. You'd need to tell the truth like 99%+ of the time for me to believe you outright. I'm certainly not going to go all-in killing someone just because you said he had a T&N, if you've told me lies in the past. Which begs the question of what you stand to gain, that you wouldn't also gain via telepathy. Is it your goal to make me keep up counters more often? If so, why? How does that benefit you? And if the other person does have a T&N in hand, I'd absolutely rather have believability on my side - because it's visible - than the opportunity to fake people out keeping up answers for stuff that isn't there.
Possibly it's because I play telepathy primarily in Phelddagrif, where, machinations aside, I'm never doing anything too devious. There's never a combo I'm hiding, or really anything particularly powerful at all, just a bunch of removal I'd rather not telegraph. But if the board states are fairly even, and hands are fairly innocuous, and telepathy guy is potentially likely to have worse stuff in hand...then sure, I could see that resulting in telepathy player getting hated on. But if that's actually happening, and you're the telepathy player, and you DON'T have anything to hide...you can just reveal you hand anyway. Telepathy is strictly better than revelation for that reason alone.
I think you are generally a better player than most, so what you would do doesn't really line up with what many would do under pressure. You have a lot of both experience and skills with the format, and a proclivity for running decks that can easily answer most threats, so you are in a position to trust your own assessments and not rely on potentially misleading info. Players who are less skilled, less experienced, and who run decks with fewer or narrower answers (and thus must take more drastic action to respond to potential threats instead of just sandbagging a cheap counter or removal spell and seeing what plays out, which is what you would do anyway with flying hippo) are going to have to rely on potentially misleading info more often. The more vulnerable their position, or the more often they aren't sure what to do, the less reliable the source has to be for them to listen. For many players, a guy that usually tells the truth but occasionally lies is a guy to listen to, especially if the truth is usually something that saved the table and the lie just gets you to do their dirty work. Basically, a guy that tells the truth 80 percent of the time, and that truth often has significant benefits to you, and lies 20 percent, with those lies only doing you minor harm (the major harm going to another player, which is your long term goal anyway), is going to be a guy that many players will listen to.
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man, your meta must be suuuper low power level for telepathy to draw hate. Usually when I play it, it reveals 5 kinds of scary BS that pulls the hate off me very quickly.
I think it falls into "annoying hate", which certain decks will do even if they're low-powered: Rebels, anything blue, Stax, land destruction, discard...Even if it's low-powered, it annoys.
You'll notice that with the exception of Rebels, I listed control decks.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Does telepathy generate somewhat disproportionate hate for a card that doesn't affect board or hands in any direct way? Sure, sometimes, depends on the situation. But even if people are way overvaluing it, there's almost always way scarier stuff to worry about, rather than merely annoying. At least most everywhere I've played.
I think you are generally a better player than most, so what you would do doesn't really line up with what many would do under pressure. You have a lot of both experience and skills with the format, and a proclivity for running decks that can easily answer most threats, so you are in a position to trust your own assessments and not rely on potentially misleading info. Players who are less skilled, less experienced, and who run decks with fewer or narrower answers (and thus must take more drastic action to respond to potential threats instead of just sandbagging a cheap counter or removal spell and seeing what plays out, which is what you would do anyway with flying hippo) are going to have to rely on potentially misleading info more often. The more vulnerable their position, or the more often they aren't sure what to do, the less reliable the source has to be for them to listen. For many players, a guy that usually tells the truth but occasionally lies is a guy to listen to, especially if the truth is usually something that saved the table and the lie just gets you to do their dirty work. Basically, a guy that tells the truth 80 percent of the time, and that truth often has significant benefits to you, and lies 20 percent, with those lies only doing you minor harm (the major harm going to another player, which is your long term goal anyway), is going to be a guy that many players will listen to.
This still reads like theory to me. Cause sure, I've thought about playing the card that way, but does anyone actually do this? Maybe I'm just a bad actor (my terribleness at "Avalon" and "one night werewolf" is legendary), but I imagine me attempting it would go like this:
Me: he's, uh...he's got a...doomsday. Yeah, a doomsday. You better kill him.
Him: haha, are you serious? I don't even run that card.
Me: no, seriously, he's got one. He's gonna combo out.
Him: haha, what lame-ass mind control crap are you trying to pull? Tell you what, player 3 - if you promise to attack dirkgently with everything for the next two turns, I'll prove I don't have doomsday.
Player 3: nah, that's ok, I'm pretty sure he's full of *****. I'll attack him anyway.
Is there anyone in this thread who consistently manages to use glasses to lie and gets benefit from it? I want some actual examples, with transcripts, or it didn't happen.
Thing is, the dude i just pointed out can't really respond either way without making him look like he has/doesn't have it, right?
While the hand is hidden information, you are permitted to reveal hidden information you have access to. If they wanted to prove you a liar and have nobody at the table trust you again, all it would take is revealing their own hand.
Forget thrax, this guy was abysmal just compared to the rest of the cycle. Krenko? Talrand? Insane. Yeva and odric are closer in power level but still better.
Really should have done the sac on any creature attacking alone, imo.
I used to play him in Kaalia. Might even still be in an archive. He was a guy that could attack and soft lock your creatures. I like him as a MBC commander as he can 3 hit kill with cathedral of war. No, he's not good especially by today's standards, but he certainly draws less hate than the more profound choices so there's that.
I used to have a deck around this guy, back when I was first going through 'one deck of every color' and this fella was brand new.
...the deck didn't last long. <.<
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Thing is, the dude i just pointed out can't really respond either way without making him look like he has/doesn't have it, right?
While the hand is hidden information, you are permitted to reveal hidden information you have access to. If they wanted to prove you a liar and have nobody at the table trust you again, all it would take is revealing their own hand.
Well, if all i would point out is that the guy has a counter, would he be willing to tip his combo in-hand? I still think that being able to keep more information hidden is usually better than having everything being revealed to everyone. But i think it really depends on the playgroup; if the table is generally the hollerin' type, causing a bit of raucous and all that, then a bit of sneaky chat here and there is an accepted and normal part of the game. If everyone is dead silent and serious/playing for blood, then yes, i can get that everyone wants to keep as honest as possible.
By the way; has anyone played a game of Caylus or 1822? they're nearly-perfect information board games that are quite complex. And because of the perfect information, it's extremely prone to "analysis paralysis". I've not really played telepathy so much, but i can definitely see having to gauge EVERYONE'S hands being an insanely difficult to parse, making players just 'AP' the whole time.
But onto nefarox, I remember when it came out, i thought it was brilliant. But within one set rotation, he fell out of favour from my kaalia deck. That exalted/single attack trigger has been somewhat dwarfed by master of cruelties.
His name means he who kinda draws on the floor a little with red marker.
An aside, how many declensions does the Vithian language have? Grixis, Yidris, and Sedris seem to be one declension, while Nefarox seems to be another, and Thraximundar is a third.
I would prefer Thraximundar or Grimgrin.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
It's like an instakill with Sulfuric Vortex. Someone is bound to die.
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I used this EXTENSIVELY back when I played in Fallen Empires; I felt it was so important to know what my opponent had. Obviously, it still is, but I'm not so fixated on that.
To that end, I too would have to disagree with Dirk's assessment. Telepathy was a centerpiece in my early Wrexial build(I don't know why...I think I just liked forcing everyone to 'bare it all', lol). I've seen a lot of people since play it as well. My takeaway(and obviously Dirk's mileage has varied) has been that the person who plays Telepathy better win fast, or get hated out fast. Sure, the table will gang up on someone trying to combo, and shenanigans have to be more stealth shenanigan-y, but by and large, people like keeping secrets, and Telepathy rubs people that I've interacted with the wrong way. It's only human.
Now, glasses have a bonus in that YOU are holding all the cards. Sure, it only works on one guy at a time, but let us remember that EDH is a social format, yes? A sudden Tim Taylor "Uh-oh...!" provides some amusing distraction and redirection...all without you having to play suit.
It's asymmetrical, but not unfairly so in the eyes of your opponents. Though I admit I'm biased...I still have a playset, in fact. I should put one into one of my decks just for crits and giggles.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
I think your opponents knowing what each other are running with is actually generally a benefit to you since they will be able to assess each other as a threat more easily and may lay off the guy who has a random dorky Telepathy in his deck.
Besides, once it hits most of the damage is done, no sense crying over spilt milk. Hurting me won't let you have your secrets back.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
...but with sunglasses of urza, i can say "dude, this guy's holding up a pact of negation, so he can deal with anything drastic" (even if he might not have that in hand)... then combo the table off, expecting the last guy in APNAP order is going to deal with it. Thing is, the dude i just pointed out can't really respond either way without making him look like he has/doesn't have it, right? You can basically make anyone specifically a target by making things up once in a while at an opportune moment, and give the table an excuse to 'respond' to it, preemptively.
There are more nuances to the sunglasses that telepathy doesn't allow. I think it's good tech, especially if you can bluff your way through it.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Idk it all sounds like cute theorycrafting that'll never work how you want in practice. Telepathy just...works.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Or, maybe people play it at the wrong time(because yeah...there IS a wrong time to play even Telepathy), which sets them up for a pretty bad fall. I'm not sure where power level theorycrafting fits in this commentary here...I thought this discussion was about the card and experiences with it.
Granted, Telepathy will reveal all(well, save for you) with no manipulations, but you know what? You(as in the player who cast it) are still an enigma. You are the one who is arguably the most dangerous. I feel it's like playing Seven Card Stud Poker, the other players have to play with their hands revealed, but can't see the hole cards. You can, AND you don't have to reveal your hand either. Hate's gonna gravitate towards that guy, especially if he wins consistently.
Glasses is more innocuous, even if it does permit, perhaps even encourage, 'puppet mastering'. Yes, you can only get away with lying a few times(maybe once), which is why you interject the truth now and again. Just as much a social format, EDH is also a POLITICAL format, which we all know involves sprinkling a bit of truth in with the lies. At that point, it's up to the 'puppet' whether they believe you or not. Your meta's mileage may vary with this...most I've played with enjoy figuring out what the truth is, and grudgingly concede to a 'lie well told'. Apparently, there are those who prefer their games as sworn testimony.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Possibly it's because I play telepathy primarily in Phelddagrif, where, machinations aside, I'm never doing anything too devious. There's never a combo I'm hiding, or really anything particularly powerful at all, just a bunch of removal I'd rather not telegraph. But if the board states are fairly even, and hands are fairly innocuous, and telepathy guy is potentially likely to have worse stuff in hand...then sure, I could see that resulting in telepathy player getting hated on. But if that's actually happening, and you're the telepathy player, and you DON'T have anything to hide...you can just reveal you hand anyway. Telepathy is strictly better than revelation for that reason alone.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I think you are generally a better player than most, so what you would do doesn't really line up with what many would do under pressure. You have a lot of both experience and skills with the format, and a proclivity for running decks that can easily answer most threats, so you are in a position to trust your own assessments and not rely on potentially misleading info. Players who are less skilled, less experienced, and who run decks with fewer or narrower answers (and thus must take more drastic action to respond to potential threats instead of just sandbagging a cheap counter or removal spell and seeing what plays out, which is what you would do anyway with flying hippo) are going to have to rely on potentially misleading info more often. The more vulnerable their position, or the more often they aren't sure what to do, the less reliable the source has to be for them to listen. For many players, a guy that usually tells the truth but occasionally lies is a guy to listen to, especially if the truth is usually something that saved the table and the lie just gets you to do their dirty work. Basically, a guy that tells the truth 80 percent of the time, and that truth often has significant benefits to you, and lies 20 percent, with those lies only doing you minor harm (the major harm going to another player, which is your long term goal anyway), is going to be a guy that many players will listen to.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I think it falls into "annoying hate", which certain decks will do even if they're low-powered: Rebels, anything blue, Stax, land destruction, discard...Even if it's low-powered, it annoys.
You'll notice that with the exception of Rebels, I listed control decks.
On phasing:
Me: he's, uh...he's got a...doomsday. Yeah, a doomsday. You better kill him.
Him: haha, are you serious? I don't even run that card.
Me: no, seriously, he's got one. He's gonna combo out.
Him: haha, what lame-ass mind control crap are you trying to pull? Tell you what, player 3 - if you promise to attack dirkgently with everything for the next two turns, I'll prove I don't have doomsday.
Player 3: nah, that's ok, I'm pretty sure he's full of *****. I'll attack him anyway.
Is there anyone in this thread who consistently manages to use glasses to lie and gets benefit from it? I want some actual examples, with transcripts, or it didn't happen.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Urza's Ski Goggles was recently announced.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I just can't imagine the inferiority complex this dude must have with Thraximundar rampaging about.
Really should have done the sac on any creature attacking alone, imo.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I used to play him in Kaalia. Might even still be in an archive. He was a guy that could attack and soft lock your creatures. I like him as a MBC commander as he can 3 hit kill with cathedral of war. No, he's not good especially by today's standards, but he certainly draws less hate than the more profound choices so there's that.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
...the deck didn't last long. <.<
Extra copy of similar effect never hurt, add Grimgrin for more kill on attack.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Well, if all i would point out is that the guy has a counter, would he be willing to tip his combo in-hand? I still think that being able to keep more information hidden is usually better than having everything being revealed to everyone. But i think it really depends on the playgroup; if the table is generally the hollerin' type, causing a bit of raucous and all that, then a bit of sneaky chat here and there is an accepted and normal part of the game. If everyone is dead silent and serious/playing for blood, then yes, i can get that everyone wants to keep as honest as possible.
By the way; has anyone played a game of Caylus or 1822? they're nearly-perfect information board games that are quite complex. And because of the perfect information, it's extremely prone to "analysis paralysis". I've not really played telepathy so much, but i can definitely see having to gauge EVERYONE'S hands being an insanely difficult to parse, making players just 'AP' the whole time.
But onto nefarox, I remember when it came out, i thought it was brilliant. But within one set rotation, he fell out of favour from my kaalia deck. That exalted/single attack trigger has been somewhat dwarfed by master of cruelties.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
An aside, how many declensions does the Vithian language have? Grixis, Yidris, and Sedris seem to be one declension, while Nefarox seems to be another, and Thraximundar is a third.
I would prefer Thraximundar or Grimgrin.
On phasing:
Fun fact: you can activate this as many times as you want.
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Rules Advisor
You're suggesting using it with Stasis, like how it was done with Chronatog back in the old days?
The Vapor is great with indestructible creatures such as Mogis, God of Slaughter.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs