I was reading the oracle text elsewhere and saw flavor text for the card that didn't seem to appear on any of the printings and was very confused. After some digging, it seems that the flavor text exists only on the tenth edition foil and a french promo. Now that's some trivia right there.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I was reading the oracle text elsewhere and saw flavor text for the card that didn't seem to appear on any of the printings and was very confused. After some digging, it seems that the flavor text exists only on the tenth edition foil and a french promo. Now that's some trivia right there.
The 8th Edition printing of this card was one of the cards that made me fall in love with Magic. It was the rare in the green starter deck, the first deck I bought after learning the game with the 8th edition starter deck that I bought together with my cousin. I still have my original Rhox in my binder.
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
Ah yes, the Timmy series of commercials. (For the kiddies too young to remember, the Timmy commercials were a series of commercials made to appeal to Timmy, even though the name hadn't been coined yet.)
I always liked this ability, by the way. At the time, monogreen had to either play like a control deck (Stompy) or not play at all. It's not that green wasn't played at all, but it tended to be in combo decks like Channel/Fireball, ProsBloom, and reanimating the best fatty ever. Your other green option was to splash black or red for those last few points of damage. (It may seem weird when we just left the era of "Llanowar Elves is too strong for Standard" and are still in the era of "Rampant Growth is too strong for Standard", but ramp was weak back in the 90s, especially because what are you ramping into that reanimator won't just bring out faster?) But when I saw Thorn Elemental, I knew, okay, worst-case scenario: Three-turn clock. Rhox is a four-turn clock, but it doesn't eat removal as often, and it costs 1 less. (In Commander, that would be an eight-turn clock versus a six-turn clock.)
For Commander, I don't really have that many stories. Rhox is a cute thing to give Tainted Strike or Triumph of the Hordes to if you have some way to give it at least +4/+0 (or Phyresis or Grafted Exoskeleton). It's a fine sword-bearer, true of any creature with this ability.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Ah Rhox, a good old friend of mine. Thorn Elemental was a common thing in my Playgroup back when i was a kid (in the time of invasion. Everyone would play 4 thorn elementals. I eventually went a W/G route and played fogs (Granted there were not many, Moment's Peace, tangle, fog, Moment of Silence.) And then i also had life gain effects and would end with Test of Endurance.
I don't know why people insist on playing this as a 5 mana, sorcery-speed Vampiric Tutor when the other 2 abilities can be so brutal.
The tutor is very good in top-of-library matter decks like VV2 where you could immediately put to use (or just with Sensei's Divining Top), and her discard ability gradually put opponent in top-deck state.
I use her as a tutor in my rat deck, single target hand removal where the player gets to choose what they get rid of just seems like it whiff hard.....
She's a bit underrated imo. She's weak as a tutor, but if you can keep her alive the value quickly adds up. Great in metas where grinding for value is a viable strategy. -2 twice in a row is too much of a telegraph for combo, but getting a value card, then forcing a discard, then grabbing another value card, and slowly grinding out tutors for answers and threats is solid. That you can occasionally just + her until she hits her ultimate is nice too. She's far from an auto include, but in the right deck she can do good work.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I don't know why people insist on playing this as a 5 mana, sorcery-speed Vampiric Tutor when the other 2 abilities can be so brutal.
I would run her for the art alone. She's so beautiful.
I also enjoy the tutor ability and the "distraction" she can provide, since everyone is desperate to keep me from using her again. This means that my opponents have to use their removal on her, so that's pretty fun, too.
This version of Liliana is a lot more broadly useful than most of the subsequent ones, easily slotting into a variety of decks using B. For that alone, she's pretty good. She's also a must-answer in a lot of metas, because most people are smart enough to realize that her getting to ultimate can be pretty much game over, so as Kedvesem notes, she is an excellent rattlesnake. The only potential downside is that bad players sometimes target the wrong person with her +1 ability. Hint: don't target people playing recursion or reanimation decks with discard effects. That helps them win games. That's not an issue with the card, though.
The -2 is reusable, and you're in a color which can easily draw that card.
The +1 has some Stax potential, and can be played in decks that want discard (wheel decks, Nath, that sort of thing).
The -8 has synergy with the +1, and paired with Jace Beleren's -10 (assuming you don't just Bloodchief Ascension "I don't feel so good."), can be scary.
Actually, Jace and Lili's abilities are very synergistic:
Jace's +2 is Temple Bell, Lili's +1 means one opponent discards a card.
Jace's -1 draws you a card, which is great after Lili's -2 Vampiric Tutor
Jace's -10 fills a player's graveyard, ripe for Lili's -8.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Now the DothP 2010 promo art is by far my favorite Liliana artwork printed to date.
In black walker decks or top-deck-mater style of combos I guess she may have a place, but I feel that in 4-player edh she isn't doing much other than a 5-cmc vampiric tutor then saving you however much life she soaks up in combat damage.
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
Are there really any good reasons to play this guy over Phyrexian Altar? Still a neat card though.
Well, other than what tstorm notes, the only reason I can think to run this guy instead of Phyrexian Altar would come down to availability and budget. The Altar has gotten very pricey, and I think it's also on the Reserved list.
If you really want this effect, it might be worth running both, though. Redundancy can be good.
Well, other than what tstorm notes, the only reason I can think to run this guy instead of Phyrexian Altar would come down to availability and budget. The Altar has gotten very pricey, and I think it's also on the Reserved list.
If you really want this effect, it might be worth running both, though. Redundancy can be good.
Altar isn't reserved. I really don't know why it is so expensive.
I like Thermopod, I've played it a few times with middling success. It would be so much better if it cost less, it would probably be an auto include at CMC 3 or less.
Thermopod is pretty unexciting because of its high mana cost and vulnerability. I think I'd almost rather play Mons's Goblin Waiters and sac two creatures for a red mana.
Another reason to play Thermopod is that in many cases, creatures are easier to recur than artifacts. Thus, if you're playing some kind of BR-based reanimator deck for example, having Thermopod as a combination of sac outlet/mana creator allows you to reuse it multiple times without needing to dedicate specific artifact recursion to it.
So while in general Phyrexian Altar is the better card, there are reasons to play this thing over it, and if you need this kind of effect, it doesn't hurt to have both.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Also, it is snow mana, if you're running enough of the other 20 cards that care about S.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I was reading the oracle text elsewhere and saw flavor text for the card that didn't seem to appear on any of the printings and was very confused. After some digging, it seems that the flavor text exists only on the tenth edition foil and a french promo. Now that's some trivia right there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnkwqTOm8rY
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
I always liked this ability, by the way. At the time, monogreen had to either play like a control deck (Stompy) or not play at all. It's not that green wasn't played at all, but it tended to be in combo decks like Channel/Fireball, ProsBloom, and reanimating the best fatty ever. Your other green option was to splash black or red for those last few points of damage. (It may seem weird when we just left the era of "Llanowar Elves is too strong for Standard" and are still in the era of "Rampant Growth is too strong for Standard", but ramp was weak back in the 90s, especially because what are you ramping into that reanimator won't just bring out faster?) But when I saw Thorn Elemental, I knew, okay, worst-case scenario: Three-turn clock. Rhox is a four-turn clock, but it doesn't eat removal as often, and it costs 1 less. (In Commander, that would be an eight-turn clock versus a six-turn clock.)
For Commander, I don't really have that many stories. Rhox is a cute thing to give Tainted Strike or Triumph of the Hordes to if you have some way to give it at least +4/+0 (or Phyresis or Grafted Exoskeleton). It's a fine sword-bearer, true of any creature with this ability.
On phasing:
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I don't know why people insist on playing this as a 5 mana, sorcery-speed Vampiric Tutor when the other 2 abilities can be so brutal.
Rhox was a card that made me happy and i went back to mono green, Rhox, Thorn Elemental, Pride of Lions, Lone wolf. With ramp and pump effects.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
The tutor is very good in top-of-library matter decks like VV2 where you could immediately put to use (or just with Sensei's Divining Top), and her discard ability gradually put opponent in top-deck state.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I would run her for the art alone. She's so beautiful.
I also enjoy the tutor ability and the "distraction" she can provide, since everyone is desperate to keep me from using her again. This means that my opponents have to use their removal on her, so that's pretty fun, too.
The +1 has some Stax potential, and can be played in decks that want discard (wheel decks, Nath, that sort of thing).
The -8 has synergy with the +1, and paired with Jace Beleren's -10 (assuming you don't just Bloodchief Ascension "I don't feel so good."), can be scary.
Actually, Jace and Lili's abilities are very synergistic:
Jace's +2 is Temple Bell, Lili's +1 means one opponent discards a card.
Jace's -1 draws you a card, which is great after Lili's -2 Vampiric Tutor
Jace's -10 fills a player's graveyard, ripe for Lili's -8.
On phasing:
Newer cards (like angrath, the flame-chained) do discard better, most budget tutors (diabolic tutor/dark petition/mastermind's acquisition) are financially and mana-cheaper while putting the card strait-to-hand, and the ultimate is unlikely to be reached, and with land-falls could just be a hard-cast rise of the dark realms.
Now the DothP 2010 promo art is by far my favorite Liliana artwork printed to date.
In black walker decks or top-deck-mater style of combos I guess she may have a place, but I feel that in 4-player edh she isn't doing much other than a 5-cmc vampiric tutor then saving you however much life she soaks up in combat damage.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
This dude is the best. Phyrexian Altar can't make snow mana, play this instead.
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
Actual reason from my personal experience, this comes back with mass reanimation spells, which is actually super explosive.
Well, other than what tstorm notes, the only reason I can think to run this guy instead of Phyrexian Altar would come down to availability and budget. The Altar has gotten very pricey, and I think it's also on the Reserved list.
If you really want this effect, it might be worth running both, though. Redundancy can be good.
Altar isn't reserved. I really don't know why it is so expensive.
I like Thermopod, I've played it a few times with middling success. It would be so much better if it cost less, it would probably be an auto include at CMC 3 or less.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Also Treasonous Ogre seems much more easy to abuse.
So while in general Phyrexian Altar is the better card, there are reasons to play this thing over it, and if you need this kind of effect, it doesn't hurt to have both.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Also, it is snow mana, if you're running enough of the other 20 cards that care about S.
On phasing: