Yeah, I'd call that the cost of doing business™. Lots of scary things need to wait a turn and as such are vulnerable to removal. Captain Sisay for example. That existence of doom blade is not going to stop me from trying however, because the payoff is worth more than the vulnerability.
Hell, this is highly evident just in Kaalia's own popularity. Look at her rep, and she's still a fragile four drop 2/2 flyer that dies to every lightning bolt imaginable.
Hell, this is highly evident just in Kaalia's own popularity. Look at her rep, and she's still a fragile four drop 2/2 flyer that dies to every lightning bolt imaginable.
Hell, this is highly evident just in Kaalia's own popularity. Look at her rep, and she's still a fragile four drop 2/2 flyer that dies to every lightning bolt imaginable.
Let's be honest, no one plays Sunlance though. Even as far as conditional, sorcery removal (which W is king of), this is a pretty dubious choice. Though you can combine with Darkest Hour to make it a really *****ty lightning bolt.
Thank goodness you have to wait through summoning sickness if you don't have support for that out. Like, throwing out anything from a praetor to an eldrazi for 1 mana at instant speed is totally "Of course this came from the Urza block".
Let's be honest, no one plays Sunlance though. Even as far as conditional, sorcery removal (which W is king of), this is a pretty dubious choice. Though you can combine with Darkest Hour to make it a really *****ty lightning bolt.
I was just being cheeky. I couldn't help but notice your "Piper dies to doom blade but that doesn't make it bad" became "Kaalia dies to Lightning Bolt but that doesn't make her bad" and couldn't resist mentioning color restrictive lightning bolt.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
piper is a card that i have somewhere, but have never ended up using it.. like ever...
It's simply too slow for what i wanna do with it i think. it's fragile (y'all joke about doom blade, but even incidental pinging from goblin sharpshooter and pyroclasm gets it), summoning sick, and is only good if you can guarantee that you have something good in hand, and looks kinda scary in-play. I'm not sure it's really ever worth it. But being able to use it as an instant-speed woodfall primus oracidic slime can be pretty good.
Hell, this is highly evident just in Kaalia's own popularity. Look at her rep, and she's still a fragile four drop 2/2 flyer that dies to every lightning bolt imaginable.
Piper is boltbait of the worst sort. If you have some way to protect her (Sylvan Safekeeper comes to mind.), she's awesome, but if you don't, you're basically relying on dumb luck.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Hell, this is highly evident just in Kaalia's own popularity. Look at her rep, and she's still a fragile four drop 2/2 flyer that dies to every lightning bolt imaginable.
Piper is boltbait of the worst sort. If you have some way to protect her (Sylvan Safekeeper comes to mind.), she's awesome, but if you don't, you're basically relying on dumb luck.
Dumb luck or poor threat assessment. It happens. And sometimes it’s worth taking the chance just to see what else you can get away with.
He could be useful, an extra draw effect is never bad and his emblem is literally a banned card, that alone attracts enough hate from your opponent to protect your other PWs.
If you built your deck to ultimate him, he will be good because his Ult is so powerful.
If you are hoping to keep pace with 3 opponents by playing this on turn 5 with no fogs or doubling season you will be very disappointed.
I think this is a very poor card for the Commander format. It is bad by itself and busted when built around.
I threw it into an esper stax deck... hasn't done much more than draw a few cards so far.
Either you run him with a gameplan to straight up ult him or you don't at all. His abilities won't get you much for that casting cost before passing away to the overwhelming hatred of the entire table.
Hell, this is highly evident just in Kaalia's own popularity. Look at her rep, and she's still a fragile four drop 2/2 flyer that dies to every lightning bolt imaginable.
Piper is boltbait of the worst sort. If you have some way to protect her (Sylvan Safekeeper comes to mind.), she's awesome, but if you don't, you're basically relying on dumb luck.
Oh god, it's the older cousin of sunlance. Didn't even know that was a thing.
Either you run him with a gameplan to straight up ult him or you don't at all. His abilities won't get you much for that casting cost before passing away to the overwhelming hatred of the entire table.
Indeed, I'm trying it in my Arixmethes counters deck but I haven't got around actually playing it yet. I'm trying it only for the chance of ultimating him on entrance.
I pkay Concordant crossroads in the same deck, so I might try the piper there. I don't think I have enough good targets anyways.
With WotS, we will have 11 Jaces so time for my ranking of Jaces!
11. Jace, the Living Guildpact: By far the worst Jace you can get for EDH. The ultimate is okay but not amazing with Doubling Season, and his other effects are super underwhelming. I wouldn't even really run him in Muldrotha, Sidisi, Atraxa, or Tasigur and I'm shocked he has 1200 homes on EDHRecs.
10. Jace, Arcane Strategist: I will go out on a limb and say that new intro deck Jace is pretty bad. We have a lot of Jaces that can +1 or +2 to draw us cards. His passive ability is interesting but limited to just 1 counter a turn which is weak for six mana, and his ultimate is awful. Should show you how much I disrespect Guildpact that this is still in 10th though.
9. Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage: I actually don't hate this Jace; +1 to untap all your creatures could have some uses and he can ultimate right away for a big thievery effect with Doubling Season. 6 mana is just a lot. At 4 or 5, I think I'd run him in a lot of Ux tribal lists, especially ones that cared about tapping and untapping creatures (Elves, Merfolk); at six he's just a tad too slow.
8. Jace, Cunning Castaway: A reasonable card in need of a good deck. Extremely funny with Doubling Season, but ultimately doesn't actually DO much of anything. Will probably take off when we finally get an illusions commander.
7. Jace, Unraveler of Secrets: THIS is what we're looking for when we think of nonsense shenanigans with Doubling Season. Extremely powerful with that combo, extremely underwhelming without it.
6. Jace Beleren: I actually think OG Jace is a bit overrated. He is the second most played Jace in Commander, and you are ultimately paying a lot for a Arena/Howling mine hybrid effect that is very fragile. That's not to say you should never run it, as it can be fine in turbo-fog decks and controlling lists but it isn't the sort of staple that its play stats would indicate.
5. Jace, Memory Adept: I was surprised at how much this guy is played, but he is really fun in any mill-centric build. I give him props for being good and playable somewhere other than superfriends.
4. Jace, Architect of Thought: For my money, this is what I really want in Superfriends as he should just win the game if you have DS out which is much better than crippling your opponents. Ultimate, bribery everyone, and go get the new Bolas or OG Ugin or Tamiyo, Field Researcher or whatever out of your own deck. The best Jace in superfriends, and his other abilities make him not unplayable in durdly control decks.
3. Jace, the Mind Sculptor: The most played Jace feels overrated in this format as well. He's not a natural in Superfriends because he is one of the few Jaces that can't auto-ult. His brainstorm can enable some combos and he's a good 'walker to loop with Muldrotha, but he isn't an autoinclude.
2. Jace, Wielder of Mysteries: I am also going to go out on a limb and say that putting Laboratory Maniac on a planeswalker that also can Thought Scour every turn to gain loyalty is going to be preeetttttty good. That triple UUU hurts but I see lots of decks, especially monoblue ones, adding this Jace.
1. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy / Jace, Telepath Unbound: The 3rd most played Jace, but I think he should be played more. The floor here is a looter which is never awful, and the ceiling is a 'walker who can offer a lot of recursion. Tons of fun, can be a commander - clearly the best Jace in EDH.
TL;DR; Unraveler of Secrets is pretty mediocre and should only be played in Superfriend decks that are too poor to afford all the best 'walkers. I imagine his stock is going to drop a lot come War of the Spark, as there is going to be so much more competition in superfriends lists.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I don't really have a strong opinion on this, but do you really think vryn's is the best? I think it's a bit wrong to say that the floor is a looter - the flip is not optional, if you want him to stay a looter you don't have that option. If you're sitting on a grave with no spells to flashback, and enemies with boards that will easily kill him once he flips...I'd much rather have a regular ol' merfolk looter in that situation.
New jace pisses me off. Lab man is already annoying as butts. Hard to say how jace will compare, but it's not my idea of fun.
Personally, new jace aside for now, I don't think any of the jaces are particularly great. Blue planeswalkers in general tend to either be underwhelming in fair decks, or they're locking down the board with stasis or something in which case, sure, they look good then. I much prefer white/green/black walkers that hold their own without degeneracy. Most of the mono-blue ones just have a bunch of boring draw abilities.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Immune to Sunlance!
1) It's an Elf. Tribal synergies galore! Used Wirewood Lodge to drop an extra creature. Etc.
2) The stunning Rebecca Gay artwork.
Currently I run the Piper in three of my decks.
Let's be honest, no one plays Sunlance though. Even as far as conditional, sorcery removal (which W is king of), this is a pretty dubious choice. Though you can combine with Darkest Hour to make it a really *****ty lightning bolt.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I was just being cheeky. I couldn't help but notice your "Piper dies to doom blade but that doesn't make it bad" became "Kaalia dies to Lightning Bolt but that doesn't make her bad" and couldn't resist mentioning color restrictive lightning bolt.
It's simply too slow for what i wanna do with it i think. it's fragile (y'all joke about doom blade, but even incidental pinging from goblin sharpshooter and pyroclasm gets it), summoning sick, and is only good if you can guarantee that you have something good in hand, and looks kinda scary in-play. I'm not sure it's really ever worth it. But being able to use it as an instant-speed woodfall primus oracidic slime can be pretty good.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
And Strafe.
Piper is boltbait of the worst sort. If you have some way to protect her (Sylvan Safekeeper comes to mind.), she's awesome, but if you don't, you're basically relying on dumb luck.
On phasing:
The secret is that Jace is lame.
This particular emblem is one of the predominant reasons I don't want to see all walkers legal from the command zone.
He could be useful, an extra draw effect is never bad and his emblem is literally a banned card, that alone attracts enough hate from your opponent to protect your other PWs.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
If you are hoping to keep pace with 3 opponents by playing this on turn 5 with no fogs or doubling season you will be very disappointed.
I think this is a very poor card for the Commander format. It is bad by itself and busted when built around.
I threw it into an esper stax deck... hasn't done much more than draw a few cards so far.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Oh god, it's the older cousin of sunlance. Didn't even know that was a thing.
I'm not a fan of things that only draw card
sfor five at sorcery speed. At least it's not guildpact Jace? Wow, there sure are a lot of *****ty Jaces.Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
But average generally isn't good enough for EDH these days.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Indeed, I'm trying it in my Arixmethes counters deck but I haven't got around actually playing it yet. I'm trying it only for the chance of ultimating him on entrance.
I pkay Concordant crossroads in the same deck, so I might try the piper there. I don't think I have enough good targets anyways.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
11. Jace, the Living Guildpact: By far the worst Jace you can get for EDH. The ultimate is okay but not amazing with Doubling Season, and his other effects are super underwhelming. I wouldn't even really run him in Muldrotha, Sidisi, Atraxa, or Tasigur and I'm shocked he has 1200 homes on EDHRecs.
10. Jace, Arcane Strategist: I will go out on a limb and say that new intro deck Jace is pretty bad. We have a lot of Jaces that can +1 or +2 to draw us cards. His passive ability is interesting but limited to just 1 counter a turn which is weak for six mana, and his ultimate is awful. Should show you how much I disrespect Guildpact that this is still in 10th though.
9. Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage: I actually don't hate this Jace; +1 to untap all your creatures could have some uses and he can ultimate right away for a big thievery effect with Doubling Season. 6 mana is just a lot. At 4 or 5, I think I'd run him in a lot of Ux tribal lists, especially ones that cared about tapping and untapping creatures (Elves, Merfolk); at six he's just a tad too slow.
8. Jace, Cunning Castaway: A reasonable card in need of a good deck. Extremely funny with Doubling Season, but ultimately doesn't actually DO much of anything. Will probably take off when we finally get an illusions commander.
7. Jace, Unraveler of Secrets: THIS is what we're looking for when we think of nonsense shenanigans with Doubling Season. Extremely powerful with that combo, extremely underwhelming without it.
6. Jace Beleren: I actually think OG Jace is a bit overrated. He is the second most played Jace in Commander, and you are ultimately paying a lot for a Arena/Howling mine hybrid effect that is very fragile. That's not to say you should never run it, as it can be fine in turbo-fog decks and controlling lists but it isn't the sort of staple that its play stats would indicate.
5. Jace, Memory Adept: I was surprised at how much this guy is played, but he is really fun in any mill-centric build. I give him props for being good and playable somewhere other than superfriends.
4. Jace, Architect of Thought: For my money, this is what I really want in Superfriends as he should just win the game if you have DS out which is much better than crippling your opponents. Ultimate, bribery everyone, and go get the new Bolas or OG Ugin or Tamiyo, Field Researcher or whatever out of your own deck. The best Jace in superfriends, and his other abilities make him not unplayable in durdly control decks.
3. Jace, the Mind Sculptor: The most played Jace feels overrated in this format as well. He's not a natural in Superfriends because he is one of the few Jaces that can't auto-ult. His brainstorm can enable some combos and he's a good 'walker to loop with Muldrotha, but he isn't an autoinclude.
2. Jace, Wielder of Mysteries: I am also going to go out on a limb and say that putting Laboratory Maniac on a planeswalker that also can Thought Scour every turn to gain loyalty is going to be preeetttttty good. That triple UUU hurts but I see lots of decks, especially monoblue ones, adding this Jace.
1. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy / Jace, Telepath Unbound: The 3rd most played Jace, but I think he should be played more. The floor here is a looter which is never awful, and the ceiling is a 'walker who can offer a lot of recursion. Tons of fun, can be a commander - clearly the best Jace in EDH.
TL;DR; Unraveler of Secrets is pretty mediocre and should only be played in Superfriend decks that are too poor to afford all the best 'walkers. I imagine his stock is going to drop a lot come War of the Spark, as there is going to be so much more competition in superfriends lists.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
New jace pisses me off. Lab man is already annoying as butts. Hard to say how jace will compare, but it's not my idea of fun.
Personally, new jace aside for now, I don't think any of the jaces are particularly great. Blue planeswalkers in general tend to either be underwhelming in fair decks, or they're locking down the board with stasis or something in which case, sure, they look good then. I much prefer white/green/black walkers that hold their own without degeneracy. Most of the mono-blue ones just have a bunch of boring draw abilities.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6