Or at least I'm not sure if that's the best pile that's possible to make, but it seems pretty good. If that's the ceiling, then brilliant ultimatum is pretty good. Is this a commonly played card?
If that's the ceiling, then brilliant ultimatum is pretty good. Is this a commonly played card?
It's not very good and it's not commonly played. You would have to have so many things go right in order to pull this off that it would be unrealistic to think that this is the true ceiling of this card. I will say that even without controlling an opponent's turn, you can still set up the top of your deck fairly easy with commonly played cards and get a really solid 5 cards on top that will give many players the fits when they try to split them. You won't necessarily get off some uber-combo, but you can get some really good value. Making it worth the effort (manipulating the top of your deck, drawing the Ultimatum, then coming up with that exact mana) is the hard part, as that is a lot of hoops to jump through.
It's like a super Fact or Fiction that also casts the card(s) for free. What's not to like? Makes for a fine haymaker.
It does, but FOF is cheaper, and fills your 'yard if that matters.
I have to give it 8/10. Good, not stellar, its biggest problem is its insane mana cost.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Accounting for all the times this will be "etb tapped: feel disappointed", how many spells that manipulate the top of your deck or reward you for doing so would you want before you play Halimar Depths?
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Do you think they would ever print a legend with the Amulet of Vigor ability?
If not, how nerfed would it have to be to get on a card (for example, "lands" instead of "permanents", 7cmc, etc.)?
This card was a little better with the ZEN fetches in standard since you could shuffle away a crap top three. I don't think it's the worst EDH card, but I am not running unless it's a theme of my deck (Yennett, Rashmi, Intet).
Yeah, as I got access to better lands(or had the best utilities for my decks), this got pushed away. I can't even justify running it in my zombies deck which DOES run amulet. Better targets to blink, better permanents/spells with the same(or better, even more efficient) effect...meh all around.
Even in decks that stand to benefit greatly from this, the combination of entering tapped and seeing your top three be utter garbage without having any way to shuffle or otherwise get rid of them is a feel bad.
Every deck that used to run it definitely cut it pretty quickly.
I used to use this in hard control with three karoos and a lair for maximum effect (and thawing glaciers). It was a great engine, but this was a deck playing OG Bolas as commander, 44 lands and shot for the super late game. And even then, it got replaced eventually by Desolate Lighthouse if that says anything.
To be honest I've tried this and I prefer a basic Island.
Especially nowadays when the same cost "buys" a scry and two different colours. Pretty hard sell.
I'm feeling as such even in monoblue. I actually play a lot of utility lands and it's usually a good idea to consider them as pseudo spells in deckbuilding because entering tapped or for colorless matters more often than I expect. Usually, that is. And in that sense I prefer one mana cantrips, especially in blue.
I'm not the best deckbuilder, mind you. I'm quite terrible.
In a vacuum, spending 1 mana (compared to playing an Island) for a 1 shot rearrange the top three cards of your library isn't particularly good, and not something I'd recommend playing. There are two things which would make me more interested. Firstly is having a general that cares about the top cards of your deck. Yennet, Intet etc. For this kind of commander, the effect is probably worth a mana. Secondly, if you have a lot of shuffle effects, this looks a lot more interesting, as knowing when to get rid of useless cards is close to being actual card advantage (see Brainstorm - though this is of course nowhere near to that card's power). That said, it's still nothing special even if you do have such cards, and running it over fixing or other utility lands is tough.
And yeah, the "right, now I know the next three draws are going to suck" effect makes this such a feel bad card, even if you can sometimes take advantage of it.
I feel like it's one of those cards blue players shove in because they're short a full art cup island for their manabase so why not quickly fill it in for the time.
Man, I do not get the hate on this one. Granted, I absolutely loathe ETB lands, so I get the disdain towards that, but at the same time I love most useful effects stapled to a land. I do run quite a few fetches and other effects that can shuffle away potentially bad draws, so YMMV, but even then I have lost track of how many times this has allowed me to flip a much needed answer to the top of my library. I find it best around turns 2-4 once you're past your opening Scry (if your group uses that mulligan rule; if not, then turns 1-3) to set up those early game draws.
I don't go out of my way to play it, but I'm pretty happy with it in any mono U or U/x deck. Outside of the previously listed commanders, I expect Maelstrom Wanderer and Rashmi to make solid use of it as well. I think ultimately it's a fine 75% card, but I agree that it's not going to make many hyper-competitive lists.
If you guys are always disappointed with the top 3 cards of you library though, you may want to consider running better cards.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I remember in Innistrad block standard loving the flavour and concept of the werewolves. I also remember lamenting how laborious they were to flip, and this guy is not an exception. Especially in this format, it's unlikely you're ever going to see a 'draw-go' turn. I vaguely remember a separate card that flips your dogs, but it's probably one hoop to many.
I really like these abilities though, it's just a shame the werewolves were a little nerfed in terms of transforming easily.
I have such a soft spot for this guy. Back in my Radha days, this was my go to guy. Shoots the birds, then transforms into a beater when I've neutered your manabase enough. Fights the occasional 3/3 you might get in to clear the way for my Deus of Calamity.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
ok, so im stacking the top of my deck with narset, parter of veils, time spiral, enter the infinite, lab maniac, jace, wielder of mysteries for the best effect.
Or at least I'm not sure if that's the best pile that's possible to make, but it seems pretty good. If that's the ceiling, then brilliant ultimatum is pretty good. Is this a commonly played card?
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
It's not very good and it's not commonly played. You would have to have so many things go right in order to pull this off that it would be unrealistic to think that this is the true ceiling of this card. I will say that even without controlling an opponent's turn, you can still set up the top of your deck fairly easy with commonly played cards and get a really solid 5 cards on top that will give many players the fits when they try to split them. You won't necessarily get off some uber-combo, but you can get some really good value. Making it worth the effort (manipulating the top of your deck, drawing the Ultimatum, then coming up with that exact mana) is the hard part, as that is a lot of hoops to jump through.
Of course, this is all a moot point if you are playing a "Choose Wisely" deck with Brilliant Ultimatum, Fact or Fiction, Fortune's Favor, Jace, Architect of Thought, Boneyard Parley, Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign, Sphinx of Uthuun, Do or Die, Truth or Tale, Liliana of the Veil, Council's Judgment, Expropriate, Plea for Power, Phyrexian Portal, or any card that involves the opponent making a choice... sounds like a fun theme for a Sen Triplets deck.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
It does, but FOF is cheaper, and fills your 'yard if that matters.
I have to give it 8/10. Good, not stellar, its biggest problem is its insane mana cost.
On phasing:
Accounting for all the times this will be "etb tapped: feel disappointed", how many spells that manipulate the top of your deck or reward you for doing so would you want before you play Halimar Depths?
If not, how nerfed would it have to be to get on a card (for example, "lands" instead of "permanents", 7cmc, etc.)?
This card was a little better with the ZEN fetches in standard since you could shuffle away a crap top three. I don't think it's the worst EDH card, but I am not running unless it's a theme of my deck (Yennett, Rashmi, Intet).
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
I think, barring any synergies, that you would mostly be better off replacing this with Preordain.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Every deck that used to run it definitely cut it pretty quickly.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I used to use this in hard control with three karoos and a lair for maximum effect (and thawing glaciers). It was a great engine, but this was a deck playing OG Bolas as commander, 44 lands and shot for the super late game. And even then, it got replaced eventually by Desolate Lighthouse if that says anything.
Can't imagine it's playable by today's standards.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Especially nowadays when the same cost "buys" a scry and two different colours. Pretty hard sell.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
I'm feeling as such even in monoblue. I actually play a lot of utility lands and it's usually a good idea to consider them as pseudo spells in deckbuilding because entering tapped or for colorless matters more often than I expect. Usually, that is. And in that sense I prefer one mana cantrips, especially in blue.
I'm not the best deckbuilder, mind you. I'm quite terrible.
And yeah, the "right, now I know the next three draws are going to suck" effect makes this such a feel bad card, even if you can sometimes take advantage of it.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI don't go out of my way to play it, but I'm pretty happy with it in any mono U or U/x deck. Outside of the previously listed commanders, I expect Maelstrom Wanderer and Rashmi to make solid use of it as well. I think ultimately it's a fine 75% card, but I agree that it's not going to make many hyper-competitive lists.
If you guys are always disappointed with the top 3 cards of you library though, you may want to consider running better cards.
On phasing:
Tap 'n Zap
I really like these abilities though, it's just a shame the werewolves were a little nerfed in terms of transforming easily.
I have such a soft spot for this guy. Back in my Radha days, this was my go to guy. Shoots the birds, then transforms into a beater when I've neutered your manabase enough. Fights the occasional 3/3 you might get in to clear the way for my Deus of Calamity.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'