Who cares, just be a Gentlemen/Lady. Play what you want, but be courteous and ask a group if they want your archtype to join in their game. I think so much ill will and utterly vengeful plays can be avoided in this manner.
I have faced Blue hate, it's fine. Chokes, Dosan the Falling Leaf, City of Solitude, Dragonlord Dromoka, Grand Abolisher, enemy Teferi's, lots of library exiling etc. So what, I play the game and the color I love.
Who cares, just be a Gentlemen/Lady. Play what you want, but be courteous and ask a group if they want your archtype to join in their game. I think so much ill will and utterly vengeful plays can be avoided in this manner.
I have faced Blue hate, it's fine. Chokes, Dosan the Falling Leaf, City of Solitude, Dragonlord Dromoka, Grand Abolisher, enemy Teferi's, lots of library exiling etc. So what, I play the game and the color I love.
That's what I say!
You play what you want, I play what I want. Whatever happens, happens.
So what if I play maindeck Carpet of Flowers and Guttural Response. You got the same chances to play silver bullets too. I'm just better at such a build because U is so much more over-populated in the average commander game than any other colour. Taking advantage of that is just smart next level deckbuildng.
So long as the filthy misery loving island players got what they deserve for years upon years upon years of degenerate play.
You sound like a blast to play against.
The golden rule, people. It's not hard.
Everyone I play against knows my disdain for U. They know I build anti-U decks. And they know I will incessantly target the U players.
Am I really so awful because I'm tired of my spells being countered and my threats neutralized by countless U player after countless U player? I just wanna play the game with everyone else.
So long as the filthy misery loving island players got what they deserve for years upon years upon years of degenerate play.
You sound like a blast to play against.
The golden rule, people. It's not hard.
Everyone I play against knows my disdain for U. They know I build anti-U decks. And they know I will incessantly target the U players.
Am I really so awful because I'm tired of my spells being countered and my threats neutralized by countless U player after countless U player? I just wanna play the game with everyone else.
Which is why cards like Price of Glory are not so slowly going into all my decks that can run them.
evaluate current board state, don't just choose targets because someone runs counterspells, or because you don't like that a deck might have ld in it, or a stax effect, or a combo. i get really tired of hearing losing players whine and cry about blue and how broken it is, when really they just weren't prepared. what it does is creates an environment where that blue player CAN take advantage of the game because you don't like aspects of it.
Maybe if they did something other than counter my cards, bounce my interactions to make me feel useless, I wouldn't feel so agitated by them. You wanna counter me? Here, I'll give you something to counter. Play with this t2 Scald, make sure you never ever tap out without a Force backup because I'm going to Boil/Omen of Fire you. I get about six different counters of my own, and they are reserved only for counter-warring the U player, or protecting my U hoser. "Keep countering all of my plays...I will run you cards out too, and then you won't win. Now you see how I feel." And then I will Seedtime to refresh myself.
As long as people play these 35+ counter decks, I will keep playing dedicated hate and hard hosers. As long as I'm the only guy at the table to not be on U, I will keep playing Cryoclasm. You keep doing a good job ensuring my Mogg Salvage is always free to cast. I will continue forcing Boseiju, and Samut-via-Cavern-backup, with Sable Stags, Scragnoths, Kavu Chameleons, and River Boas. And I will continue sending these uncounterables and protection-from-you guys at you, as long as you continue trying to make my limited time playing this game miserable.
So, no, don't tell me to stop focusing on the U player sitting from atop his throne of eleven mana and thirty counterspells like he's not the kingmaking threat that chooses who wins and who loses. Years of experience, bad beats, and getting combo locked have shaped my deck building & play strategy to what it is today.
thats cool, but i'm sure the zombies player over in the corner is the one really disrupting you, even more so if you've geared your entire deck to hate on the perceived threat of blue. you're just upset that the blue player did one clutch counter to keep you in check so you're throwing everything you have at them regardless of everything else.
honestly, while i hate games like this because it allows someone to sit back and wait and REALLY wreck the game, i also love games like this because player A thinks player B is the threat because idk islands, so they throw everything they have at them, while player B has either built their deck well enough to put up a fight and use up A's resources, or they crumple and get to a point where player C can just laugh and kill both because A and B are spent and player C hasn't been disrupted at all, but A still blames B, generally using excuses like 'but i had to keep the blue player in check'
i tend to be player C in this scenario.
its bad threat assessment and holding grudges like that make the game miserable for anyone directly involved, for zero reason.
honestly, while i hate games like this because it allows someone to sit back and wait and REALLY wreck the game, i also love games like this because player A thinks player B is the threat because idk islands, so they throw everything they have at them, while player B has either built their deck well enough to put up a fight and use up A's resources, or they crumple and get to a point where player C can just laugh and kill both because A and B are spent and player C hasn't been disrupted at all, but A still blames B, generally using excuses like 'but i had to keep the blue player in check'
i tend to be player C in this scenario.
its bad threat assessment and holding grudges like that make the game miserable for anyone directly involved, for zero reason.
Sometimes meta-imbalance contributes greatly to that situation though (and aggravates an entire's meta hate to one color, most notably U of course). If player's B deck is a whole different tier than everyone else's chances are he'll still have enough resources to win the game. Likewise, if only Player A's deck is a tier below, then chances is that the player C also put in some pressure to make sure player B actually ran out of resources. Are the individual outliers at fault to some degree? Yes, but that's not the main point.
Even in a meta-balanced (deck-wise), the same situations can still happen as long as a few players (or in some cases, even just a player D) doesn't know how to deal with threat assessment from U (which is a different skillset from the typical threat assessment). I've seen games regardless of balance (balanced, 1 stronger deck, or 1 weaker player) all whacked out simply because some player clearly didn't understand how devastating Rhystic Study is in the game and promptly just cast spells without paying the tax and gave that 1 U player enough power to upset the entire board entirely. In 1-stronger deck imbalanced meta the effects are most obvious, but all you really need is 1 weak player responding badly to something like Rhystic Study and the game just imbalanced itself in proportion to its meta.
I know I'm singling out Rhystic Study when it's more of a combination of cards (which can even be nonblue like Tempt with Discovery), but considering that was the first culprit (especially followed by endless Capsizes and Forbids essentially guaranteeing a combo finish) I thought of was Study and I needed a card to be an example for the situation.
Add in the social factors and when I suppose it's very likely some people ran into situations where they couldn't manage to teach player C/D about proper threat assessment (which includes U) they literally have to resort to just ramming the U players themselves because they weren't going to win either way. Ironically it becomes a kingmaking decision of sorts if the deck targeted is a kingmaking one.
I'm not saying it's ideal (nor is it healthy) for a meta, but the frustrations for situations like this really feel much easier to just happen perchance than the efforts to fix it happen.
honestly, while i hate games like this because it allows someone to sit back and wait and REALLY wreck the game, i also love games like this because player A thinks player B is the threat because idk islands, so they throw everything they have at them, while player B has either built their deck well enough to put up a fight and use up A's resources, or they crumple and get to a point where player C can just laugh and kill both because A and B are spent and player C hasn't been disrupted at all, but A still blames B, generally using excuses like 'but i had to keep the blue player in check'
i tend to be player C in this scenario.
its bad threat assessment and holding grudges like that make the game miserable for anyone directly involved, for zero reason.
Sometimes meta-imbalance contributes greatly to that situation though (and aggravates an entire's meta hate to one color, most notably U of course). If player's B deck is a whole different tier than everyone else's chances are he'll still have enough resources to win the game. Likewise, if only Player A's deck is a tier below, then chances is that the player C also put in some pressure to make sure player B actually ran out of resources. Are the individual outliers at fault to some degree? Yes, but that's not the main point.
Even in a meta-balanced (deck-wise), the same situations can still happen as long as a few players (or in some cases, even just a player D) doesn't know how to deal with threat assessment from U (which is a different skillset from the typical threat assessment). I've seen games regardless of balance (balanced, 1 stronger deck, or 1 weaker player) all whacked out simply because some player clearly didn't understand how devastating Rhystic Study is in the game and promptly just cast spells without paying the tax and gave that 1 U player enough power to upset the entire board entirely. In 1-stronger deck imbalanced meta the effects are most obvious, but all you really need is 1 weak player responding badly to something like Rhystic Study and the game just imbalanced itself in proportion to its meta.
I know I'm singling out Rhystic Study when it's more of a combination of cards (which can even be nonblue like Tempt with Discovery), but considering that was the first culprit (especially followed by endless Capsizes and Forbids essentially guaranteeing a combo finish) I thought of was Study and I needed a card to be an example for the situation.
Add in the social factors and when I suppose it's very likely some people ran into situations where they couldn't manage to teach player C/D about proper threat assessment (which includes U) they literally have to resort to just ramming the U players themselves because they weren't going to win either way. Ironically it becomes a kingmaking decision of sorts if the deck targeted is a kingmaking one.
I'm not saying it's ideal (nor is it healthy) for a meta, but the frustrations for situations like this really feel much easier to just happen perchance than the efforts to fix it happen.
What youre describing amounts to a lot more than "always target the blue player"
Its calculated through previous interactions, and still encompasses board state.
evaluate current board state, don't just choose targets because someone runs counterspells, or because you don't like that a deck might have ld in it, or a stax effect, or a combo. i get really tired of hearing losing players whine and cry about blue and how broken it is, when really they just weren't prepared. what it does is creates an environment where that blue player CAN take advantage of the game because you don't like aspects of it.
Maybe if they did something other than counter my cards, bounce my interactions to make me feel useless, I wouldn't feel so agitated by them. You wanna counter me? Here, I'll give you something to counter. Play with this t2 Scald, make sure you never ever tap out without a Force backup because I'm going to Boil/Omen of Fire you. I get about six different counters of my own, and they are reserved only for counter-warring the U player, or protecting my U hoser. "Keep countering all of my plays...I will run you cards out too, and then you won't win. Now you see how I feel." And then I will Seedtime to refresh myself.
As long as people play these 35+ counter decks, I will keep playing dedicated hate and hard hosers. As long as I'm the only guy at the table to not be on U, I will keep playing Cryoclasm. You keep doing a good job ensuring my Mogg Salvage is always free to cast. I will continue forcing Boseiju, and Samut-via-Cavern-backup, with Sable Stags, Scragnoths, Kavu Chameleons, and River Boas. And I will continue sending these uncounterables and protection-from-you guys at you, as long as you continue trying to make my limited time playing this game miserable.
So, no, don't tell me to stop focusing on the U player sitting from atop his throne of eleven mana and thirty counterspells like he's not the kingmaking threat that chooses who wins and who loses. Years of experience, bad beats, and getting combo locked have shaped my deck building & play strategy to what it is today.
thats cool, but i'm sure the zombies player over in the corner is the one really disrupting you, even more so if you've geared your entire deck to hate on the perceived threat of blue. you're just upset that the blue player did one clutch counter to keep you in check so you're throwing everything you have at them regardless of everything else.
No, I've gotten like this BECAUSE I'm literally not allowed to resolve any spells. U/W Taigam can go resolve SFM for Batterskull, but I'm not allowed a faithless looting/wild guess/char to kill a Tamiyo about to ult.
No, I can't have this Goblin Legionaire, but it's okay to let Narset cast Recurring Insight.
So, because you play with people who have terrible threat assessment all blue players must die? Shouldn't you be getting mad at those people?
You don't think you're being the least bit hyperbolic? I wouldn't want to play with you again if this is how you behave at a table, to take this back to the topic of the thread.
at the sametime that being concerned over a blue player over other players is rude but often completely acceptable in most situations. Out of the colors Blue is going to force other people out of the game and take "control" of the game thats why we consider blue to be the control color. sure its never fair to be forced out of the game because of your commander but at the same time a solid blue deck that's had 9 turns either has already combo-ed out or is preventing boards from interacting. A common player in my group runs Edric Spymaster of trest you HAVE to kill him before turn 5 or he's already won, Azami is another common one and again turn 6 or 7 they've won. Not a lot of decks can do that if they're not in blue because of infinite turns. almost all other infinite combos can be dealt with. infinite creatures? kay i'll wrath. infinite life? welp i just need to disrupt and start whittling you down thanks Beast within for letting me disrupt. infinite mana welp i can force your hand into the graveyard through any number of ways. infinite turns tho. There's not much that a non blue player can do against infinite turns. knowing a deck and the combos in it create a good reason to target specificly i might let the azami deck play around a bit if edric is out and i might let other decks run around if a good meren deck is up. but targetting players can be neccesary if you want a strong game
So, because you play with people who have terrible threat assessment all blue players must die? Shouldn't you be getting mad at those people?
You don't think you're being the least bit hyperbolic? I wouldn't want to play with you again if this is how you behave at a table, to take this back to the topic of the thread.
Never know. If everyone wants to blue, then I will anti blue. There's not a more satisfying play than Boseiju'ing a Boil into three open counterspell heavy hands.
Yes, say that to the guy who rarely plays blue in EDH.
While you're having a conniption fit over someone committing the deadly sin of playing an Island I'll be sitting in the back corner enjoying you kingmake me. Look, I'm not denying that targeting and/or keeping an eye on the blue player is a good strategy since it's by far the most powerful color in EDH, but targeting them repeatedly without concern for how the game is going is antisocial, antagonistic, and childish. You and your group may be okay with that, whatever, it's no skin off of my back. I just think your attitude about it is poor.
evaluate current board state, don't just choose targets because someone runs counterspells, or because you don't like that a deck might have ld in it, or a stax effect, or a combo. i get really tired of hearing losing players whine and cry about blue and how broken it is, when really they just weren't prepared. what it does is creates an environment where that blue player CAN take advantage of the game because you don't like aspects of it.
Maybe if they did something other than counter my cards, bounce my interactions to make me feel useless, I wouldn't feel so agitated by them. You wanna counter me? Here, I'll give you something to counter. Play with this t2 Scald, make sure you never ever tap out without a Force backup because I'm going to Boil/Omen of Fire you. I get about six different counters of my own, and they are reserved only for counter-warring the U player, or protecting my U hoser. "Keep countering all of my plays...I will run you cards out too, and then you won't win. Now you see how I feel." And then I will Seedtime to refresh myself.
As long as people play these 35+ counter decks, I will keep playing dedicated hate and hard hosers. As long as I'm the only guy at the table to not be on U, I will keep playing Cryoclasm. You keep doing a good job ensuring my Mogg Salvage is always free to cast. I will continue forcing Boseiju, and Samut-via-Cavern-backup, with Sable Stags, Scragnoths, Kavu Chameleons, and River Boas. And I will continue sending these uncounterables and protection-from-you guys at you, as long as you continue trying to make my limited time playing this game miserable.
So, no, don't tell me to stop focusing on the U player sitting from atop his throne of eleven mana and thirty counterspells like he's not the kingmaking threat that chooses who wins and who loses. Years of experience, bad beats, and getting combo locked have shaped my deck building & play strategy to what it is today.
thats cool, but i'm sure the zombies player over in the corner is the one really disrupting you, even more so if you've geared your entire deck to hate on the perceived threat of blue. you're just upset that the blue player did one clutch counter to keep you in check so you're throwing everything you have at them regardless of everything else.
No, I've gotten like this BECAUSE I'm literally not allowed to resolve any spells. U/W Taigam can go resolve SFM for Batterskull, but I'm not allowed a faithless looting/wild guess/char to kill a Tamiyo about to ult.
No, I can't have this Goblin Legionaire, but it's okay to let Narset cast Recurring Insight.
So I take matters into my own hands.
That's poor assessment on a player's behalf, nothing to do with the colour they're playing. You could resolve any creatures you like, but a Blue/Red/Black/White player can kill them all on a whim using any number of control spells. Do you get mad everytime your commander gets Terminated? When your Bob gets Path to Exiled? Cause I don't see the difference between an instant speed kill spell in Rakdos and a Counterspell.
Literally last night we had a pod of 5, one of which was playing Prossh. Turn one he drops a Burgeoning. The following four players drop lands and so does he. Turn two he fetches Food Chain and plays a mana dork. The next turn, if he has any kind of mana ramp or land drop he wins. Turn 3 he hits a Goblin Matron into Reckless Bushwhacker, casts Prossh and says "I Win".
I cast Disdainful Stroke on his Prossh and the table survives the turn. People get to play their decks.
Ok, so leaving out on the blue/anti-blue debate (I actually may build a Jalira deck, but I understand the hate that blue engenders), I read the article referenced in the OP, and I have to say I disagree with one of his lessons, that you don't have to always win at Magic. My philosophy on etiquette in Magic can be easily summed up as "Build to be a member of the group, never the tormentor or doormat, but ALWAYS play to win." I don't ever pull punches, even on baby seals. Of course, that means you have to go into an unknown situation/LGS sometimes willing to have a mismatch and then adjust if you like their play, but I always play to win, in every game I play. To do anything less robs the ultimate winner of the validity of their win. Nothing is more condescending and patronizing than giving a win out like a participation award. I may choose not to knock the baby seal out first for strategy reasons (after all, it helps them by giving time to draw an answer, but also allows you to focus on bigger threats first), but it is still my intent to kill them, too.
That's poor assessment on a player's behalf, nothing to do with the colour they're playing. You could resolve any creatures you like, but a Blue/Red/Black/White player can kill them all on a whim using any number of control spells. Do you get mad everytime your commander gets Terminated? When your Bob gets Path to Exiled? Cause I don't see the difference between an instant speed kill spell in Rakdos and a Counterspell.
So much this. I remember a while back I was playing a game with my Thraximundar deck, and the player to my left was playing equipment voltron. Five turns in a row, he tried to cast or reanimate/recur Stonehewer Giant. Five turns in a row, I responded with Codex Shredder to get Cryptic Command, and Salvaging Station to get Shredder. He ragequit, accusing me of not doing anything except countering his stuff. I suggested he do something other than repeatedly play Stonehewer Giant. I mean, I was spending all of my mana every turn to stop the Stonehewer. One of the other players at the table even had a Shatter effect in hand to stop the Salvaging Station, but he was perfectly content to let me have it if it meant I was spending all my resources keeping the Giant off the table.
That Thraximundar deck could've done basically the same thing with Murder instead of Cryptic, if I'd had it in hand/graveyard. I seriously doubt the voltron player would have been any happier.
Ok, so leaving out on the blue/anti-blue debate (I actually may build a Jalira deck, but I understand the hate that blue engenders), I read the article referenced in the OP, and I have to say I disagree with one of his lessons, that you don't have to always win at Magic. My philosophy on etiquette in Magic can be easily summed up as "Build to be a member of the group, never the tormentor or doormat, but ALWAYS play to win." I don't ever pull punches, even on baby seals. Of course, that means you have to go into an unknown situation/LGS sometimes willing to have a mismatch and then adjust if you like their play, but I always play to win, in every game I play. To do anything less robs the ultimate winner of the validity of their win. Nothing is more condescending and patronizing than giving a win out like a participation award. I may choose not to knock the baby seal out first for strategy reasons (after all, it helps them by giving time to draw an answer, but also allows you to focus on bigger threats first), but it is still my intent to kill them, too.
In general i agree playing to win can be fun but turn 5 swinging your 64/64 khalonia hydra at the player stuck at 2 lands isn't much fun for anyone. Commander is designed to be a casual format with interesting interactions playing to win asap can take that away from anyone. sure you can infinite combo turn three but will anyone want to play with you again, hell no. because at that point your creating a toxic lack of interaction. Playing the game to play the game, winning in cool ways that make the other players go "hey i've never seen that before" thats where commanders heart is not with winning asap just to win
Ok, so leaving out on the blue/anti-blue debate (I actually may build a Jalira deck, but I understand the hate that blue engenders), I read the article referenced in the OP, and I have to say I disagree with one of his lessons, that you don't have to always win at Magic. My philosophy on etiquette in Magic can be easily summed up as "Build to be a member of the group, never the tormentor or doormat, but ALWAYS play to win." I don't ever pull punches, even on baby seals. Of course, that means you have to go into an unknown situation/LGS sometimes willing to have a mismatch and then adjust if you like their play, but I always play to win, in every game I play. To do anything less robs the ultimate winner of the validity of their win. Nothing is more condescending and patronizing than giving a win out like a participation award. I may choose not to knock the baby seal out first for strategy reasons (after all, it helps them by giving time to draw an answer, but also allows you to focus on bigger threats first), but it is still my intent to kill them, too.
In general i agree playing to win can be fun but turn 5 swinging your 64/64 khalonia hydra at the player stuck at 2 lands isn't much fun for anyone. Commander is designed to be a casual format with interesting interactions playing to win asap can take that away from anyone. sure you can infinite combo turn three but will anyone want to play with you again, hell no. because at that point your creating a toxic lack of interaction. Playing the game to play the game, winning in cool ways that make the other players go "hey i've never seen that before" thats where commanders heart is not with winning asap just to win
Except you did not read what I typed, but rather what you reflexively interpret in these types of threads. I said "build to be a member of the group, never the tormentor...". A turn 5 64/64 hydra or some such nonsense is only building to be a member of the group if you're all packing nukes. Our group has found that limiting the build and then swinging for the fences is fun. That is why I always play to win. My decks aren't that garbage you just accused me of. Smh.
No offense but uncounterbale spells and creatures won't stop Blue anymore. There are many exiling effects in color to stop uncounterable things so honestly as a blue player I wouldn't care lol. I just say play good magic and have fun.
No offense but uncounterbale spells and creatures won't stop Blue anymore. There are many exiling effects in color to stop uncounterable things so honestly as a blue player I wouldn't care lol. I just say play good magic and have fun.
Indeed, you are correct. My point was I don't really care about Blue "hate", and honestly if you are singling me out, ok so be it, I have plenty of ways around those things. It's a part of the game. I just don't see the point to play to hate someone out or someone who plays a color you despise. It just makes things unpleasant in general.
Indeed, you are correct. My point was I don't really care about Blue "hate", and honestly if you are singling me out, ok so be it, I have plenty of ways around those things. It's a part of the game. I just don't see the point to play to hate someone out or someone who plays a color you despise. It just makes things unpleasant in general.
It's more out of respect. I respect that U is significantly more powerful than the rest, and given it's much higher propensity to be played than the other four, it's more useful to play specific hate towards it. Because otherwise the colour just steam rolls you.
If ezuri takes off? If Kaalia does what Kaalia does best? If mono-r takes a whole table?
These are all fine. So long as the filthy misery loving island players got what they deserve for years upon years upon years of degenerate play.
You sound like some one I resolved a Choke on before.
No offense, but it sounds like you're really bad at commander if that's how you play. Being good at the game means letting go of personal bias and finding the optimal line. I've said it once and I'll say it again: your deck is markedly worse for including trash cards like boil and guttural response in the mainboard - convince yourself you're "next leveling" all you want. I fail to see how counterspells are degenerate anyway.
Also I have to laugh at the idea of people being "island players" for "years upon years". Maybe that point of view is more widespread among constructed players than I give it credit for, but imo being a magic player is about finding the strengths in every color, not planting your flag in one and never changing. Sure, we all have our preferences, but the idea of shunning blue ad infinitum sounds as crazy to me as someone cutting off their left arm because they preferred their right.
Also I have to laugh at the idea of people being "island players" for "years upon years". Maybe that point of view is more widespread among constructed players than I give it credit for, but imo being a magic player is about finding the strengths in every color, not planting your flag in one and never changing. Sure, we all have our preferences, but the idea of shunning blue ad infinitum sounds as crazy to me as someone cutting off their left arm because they preferred their right.
I agree. A member of my play group thinks I'm the blue player, but blue shows up in 4 of my 9 decks, with two of them being Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis hug, and Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder punisher where blue barely shows up.
I don't understand the sentiment that you can obly hate on one player at a time either. Swing your dudes at the person with Luminarch Ascension, use your wheel to strip the tutor player of their hand, K Grip the Metal Worker, and Strip Mine the Cabal Coffers.
Answer the threats that are present, not some perceived slight because someone is playing a certain colour.
I have faced Blue hate, it's fine. Chokes, Dosan the Falling Leaf, City of Solitude, Dragonlord Dromoka, Grand Abolisher, enemy Teferi's, lots of library exiling etc. So what, I play the game and the color I love.
That's what I say!
You play what you want, I play what I want. Whatever happens, happens.
So what if I play maindeck Carpet of Flowers and Guttural Response. You got the same chances to play silver bullets too. I'm just better at such a build because U is so much more over-populated in the average commander game than any other colour. Taking advantage of that is just smart next level deckbuildng.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
You sound like a blast to play against.
The golden rule, people. It's not hard.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Everyone I play against knows my disdain for U. They know I build anti-U decks. And they know I will incessantly target the U players.
Am I really so awful because I'm tired of my spells being countered and my threats neutralized by countless U player after countless U player? I just wanna play the game with everyone else.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Which is why cards like Price of Glory are not so slowly going into all my decks that can run them.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
thats cool, but i'm sure the zombies player over in the corner is the one really disrupting you, even more so if you've geared your entire deck to hate on the perceived threat of blue. you're just upset that the blue player did one clutch counter to keep you in check so you're throwing everything you have at them regardless of everything else.
honestly, while i hate games like this because it allows someone to sit back and wait and REALLY wreck the game, i also love games like this because player A thinks player B is the threat because idk islands, so they throw everything they have at them, while player B has either built their deck well enough to put up a fight and use up A's resources, or they crumple and get to a point where player C can just laugh and kill both because A and B are spent and player C hasn't been disrupted at all, but A still blames B, generally using excuses like 'but i had to keep the blue player in check'
i tend to be player C in this scenario.
its bad threat assessment and holding grudges like that make the game miserable for anyone directly involved, for zero reason.
Sometimes meta-imbalance contributes greatly to that situation though (and aggravates an entire's meta hate to one color, most notably U of course). If player's B deck is a whole different tier than everyone else's chances are he'll still have enough resources to win the game. Likewise, if only Player A's deck is a tier below, then chances is that the player C also put in some pressure to make sure player B actually ran out of resources. Are the individual outliers at fault to some degree? Yes, but that's not the main point.
Even in a meta-balanced (deck-wise), the same situations can still happen as long as a few players (or in some cases, even just a player D) doesn't know how to deal with threat assessment from U (which is a different skillset from the typical threat assessment). I've seen games regardless of balance (balanced, 1 stronger deck, or 1 weaker player) all whacked out simply because some player clearly didn't understand how devastating Rhystic Study is in the game and promptly just cast spells without paying the tax and gave that 1 U player enough power to upset the entire board entirely. In 1-stronger deck imbalanced meta the effects are most obvious, but all you really need is 1 weak player responding badly to something like Rhystic Study and the game just imbalanced itself in proportion to its meta.
I know I'm singling out Rhystic Study when it's more of a combination of cards (which can even be nonblue like Tempt with Discovery), but considering that was the first culprit (especially followed by endless Capsizes and Forbids essentially guaranteeing a combo finish) I thought of was Study and I needed a card to be an example for the situation.
Add in the social factors and when I suppose it's very likely some people ran into situations where they couldn't manage to teach player C/D about proper threat assessment (which includes U) they literally have to resort to just ramming the U players themselves because they weren't going to win either way. Ironically it becomes a kingmaking decision of sorts if the deck targeted is a kingmaking one.
I'm not saying it's ideal (nor is it healthy) for a meta, but the frustrations for situations like this really feel much easier to just happen perchance than the efforts to fix it happen.
What youre describing amounts to a lot more than "always target the blue player"
Its calculated through previous interactions, and still encompasses board state.
No, I've gotten like this BECAUSE I'm literally not allowed to resolve any spells. U/W Taigam can go resolve SFM for Batterskull, but I'm not allowed a faithless looting/wild guess/char to kill a Tamiyo about to ult.
No, I can't have this Goblin Legionaire, but it's okay to let Narset cast Recurring Insight.
So I take matters into my own hands.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Literally, huh?
So, because you play with people who have terrible threat assessment all blue players must die? Shouldn't you be getting mad at those people?
You don't think you're being the least bit hyperbolic? I wouldn't want to play with you again if this is how you behave at a table, to take this back to the topic of the thread.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Never know. If everyone wants to blue, then I will anti blue. There's not a more satisfying play than Boseiju'ing a Boil into three open counterspell heavy hands.
Get wrecked.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
While you're having a conniption fit over someone committing the deadly sin of playing an Island I'll be sitting in the back corner enjoying you kingmake me. Look, I'm not denying that targeting and/or keeping an eye on the blue player is a good strategy since it's by far the most powerful color in EDH, but targeting them repeatedly without concern for how the game is going is antisocial, antagonistic, and childish. You and your group may be okay with that, whatever, it's no skin off of my back. I just think your attitude about it is poor.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
That's poor assessment on a player's behalf, nothing to do with the colour they're playing. You could resolve any creatures you like, but a Blue/Red/Black/White player can kill them all on a whim using any number of control spells. Do you get mad everytime your commander gets Terminated? When your Bob gets Path to Exiled? Cause I don't see the difference between an instant speed kill spell in Rakdos and a Counterspell.
Literally last night we had a pod of 5, one of which was playing Prossh. Turn one he drops a Burgeoning. The following four players drop lands and so does he. Turn two he fetches Food Chain and plays a mana dork. The next turn, if he has any kind of mana ramp or land drop he wins. Turn 3 he hits a Goblin Matron into Reckless Bushwhacker, casts Prossh and says "I Win".
I cast Disdainful Stroke on his Prossh and the table survives the turn. People get to play their decks.
Don't hate the colour, hate the player.
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
That Thraximundar deck could've done basically the same thing with Murder instead of Cryptic, if I'd had it in hand/graveyard. I seriously doubt the voltron player would have been any happier.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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In general i agree playing to win can be fun but turn 5 swinging your 64/64 khalonia hydra at the player stuck at 2 lands isn't much fun for anyone. Commander is designed to be a casual format with interesting interactions playing to win asap can take that away from anyone. sure you can infinite combo turn three but will anyone want to play with you again, hell no. because at that point your creating a toxic lack of interaction. Playing the game to play the game, winning in cool ways that make the other players go "hey i've never seen that before" thats where commanders heart is not with winning asap just to win
Hey, if you wanna blow your Mindbreak Trap on my Great Sable Stag, instead of the timely Supreme Verdict you loathed to see or the guy storming off, go right ahead. Typically, those types of unique counters are worth a lot more in value than, say, a Kavu Chameleon or Prowling Serpopard.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
It's more out of respect. I respect that U is significantly more powerful than the rest, and given it's much higher propensity to be played than the other four, it's more useful to play specific hate towards it. Because otherwise the colour just steam rolls you.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also I have to laugh at the idea of people being "island players" for "years upon years". Maybe that point of view is more widespread among constructed players than I give it credit for, but imo being a magic player is about finding the strengths in every color, not planting your flag in one and never changing. Sure, we all have our preferences, but the idea of shunning blue ad infinitum sounds as crazy to me as someone cutting off their left arm because they preferred their right.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I agree. A member of my play group thinks I'm the blue player, but blue shows up in 4 of my 9 decks, with two of them being Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis hug, and Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder punisher where blue barely shows up.
I don't understand the sentiment that you can obly hate on one player at a time either. Swing your dudes at the person with Luminarch Ascension, use your wheel to strip the tutor player of their hand, K Grip the Metal Worker, and Strip Mine the Cabal Coffers.
Answer the threats that are present, not some perceived slight because someone is playing a certain colour.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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