So, Lighthouse Chronologist is a controversial card for sure. It has a TON of power but costs a lot of upfront investment and a lot of colored mana. I am primarily looking at this from the standpoint of a mono blue deck because I think as you add more colors it gets even weaker. I am working on a Kefnet the Mindful deck and I was looking to see what others experience with the card have been. For the most part I have steered clear from the 1UUUUUUUU investment. If you try to break it up into multiple turns it opens more options for removal but if you do it all in one turn its super mana heavy and hard to keep up defenses for it as well as it being a very late game card to drop.
Even if you drop and fully level it, you are susceptible to any spot removal that has been kept up as well as anything that the next player can do with a full turn. Obviously if its going to be good anywhere its probably going to be a mono blue big mana deck but even then I question the insane upfront cost with a highly fragile body for the mana investment and the attention it draws.
Thoughts? Experiences?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
In a game with 4 or less players, anytime I had him maxed out I won the game, I think it's also mostly due to me playing Jeleva where I have no lack of dramatic spells and benefit greatly from multiple attacks.
I would never run it because if you don't activate it, it's boring and did nothing, and if you do activate it, the table is now actively having less fun. The table having fun is more important than playing a strong card.
I've never used it myself but my friends have, if you can somehow drop it and crank it up to 11 and it doesn't get removed you're about to run away with the game, but because being on the opposite end of Chronologist is excruciating, it paints a massive target on your head. I recall playing a 9 player game where a Kruphix player pulled of Lighthouse Chronologist, but then the other 8 players burned through resources to knock him out of the game which proceeded to go on for another hour.
There's something just annoying about the Chronologist, whereas I'd rather just lose to an infinite turn loop then have to sit through an opponent getting 3 extra turns in between everyone else's.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH Pantheon UBRG Yidris, Eye of the Storm WBR Kaalia, Herald of Apocalypse UBG Damia, Sage of Nightmare WBG Karador, the Bridge Between WU Grand Warden Augustin IV RG Omnath, Locus of Awakening BG Nath Addict UR Niv Mizzet, Brain Aflame B Kokusho, the Mourning Star U Memnarch is All
I own one and am happy to have it in my collection. I have never used it in a game, though after finding a conpy of Oloro in a trade binder a few weeks ago, I am aquiring the cards and accessories (sleeves, deck box, etc) to buikd a deck led by the life gain Giant. I think this creature would be a solid addition to such a deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
I stuck it in my Vorel deck as a replacement for Prophet of Kruphix when it was banned. All the cards people suggested as replacements for Prophet (Muse, Teferi, Leyline, Orrery, etc.) were already in the deck. Then I realized, "Prophet essentially gives me a turn at the end of each of my opponents' turns. Why don't I actually get a turn at the end of each opponent's turn?"
The fact that Vorel can help get level counters, and occasionally the deck does things like tap Astral Cornucopia for 32x blue at a time makes the high cost of maxing out the Chronologist's level less burdensome.
Sort of a one card combo - if there is no answer the game is over. If you want to run stuff like that lighthouse chronologist is a great card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Lighthouse Chronologist is my favourite wizard and an amazing card! Too bad you can't level him up at instant speed
You need to learn when to drop and level it up though. Sometimes he is useful to simply drop and get your opponents to use removal on so you can protect something you need more. Other times he is useful for dumping excess mana into, while being a threat. Sometimes you can level him up in one go and run away with the game. I run him in Azami, so it helps he can tap for a card if nothing else.
I wish he were a Legendary creature you could level up at instant speed. Would make a great commander
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:UB Taking Turns Modern:URW Madcap Experiment Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
A 9-Drop, that's what this is. It'll be removed we'll before it has time to be relevant if dropped before you can level it. Compare it to the likes of Iona, Shield of Emeria who hits harder and is arguably more oppressive, and this dude looks tame. It used to be played a ton in our groups, but after a few "I've got enough mana and get it to 7, oh no, an opponent hits it with Dismember or simarily cheap/free removal after the 6th counter and then I die to the table tapped out", it was removed from all but the dedicated builds. This ranks pretty low on the ban wishlist for me.
My win con is the massive bounce effects killing my opponents, thanks to Vela the Night-clad's ability
I think you may be missing the point. Kefnet lets you draw your entire deck with infinite mana, so as long as you have a win condition somewhere in it, you're good.
I have tried the chronologist out a bit but I found that Time Stretch was much more reliable at that mana point. I imagine I'd want Expropriate in this slot before chronologist, too. The issue I tend to have with chronologist is that he's an all-or-nothing card that preys on metas that have not yet learned the value of spot removal. I'd say pass on him.
I tried a bunch of Level Up cards in my Vorel of the Hull Clade (specifically Echo Mage, Lighthouse Chronologist, Enclave Cryptologist, Kazandu Tuskcaller, and Joraga Treespeaker) and I cut all of them except Joraga Treespeaker (which is good on one level counter so it hardly counts for the purposes of this conversation). Having to invest mana of that magnitude was never really an option and using resources to proliferate the level counters just seemed too slow for the benefit.
I will say this however; that a fully leveled Lighthouse Chronologist is no joke and is worth every bit of resource that you use to level it up. It's just a lightning rod for removal however, so unless you are running a deck full of lightning rods (which many UG decks can be) or counters (which blue decks should be running anyway) then it will just eat a removal spell unless you wait to run it out. I don't necessarily prescribe to the "dies to removal" argument for not running stuff, but if you do run it you need to play accordingly.
Once he's at level 7, you're almost always going to win. The downside is, getting him there. Dude draws removal like it's nobody's business. Basically, if someone drops this guy, you answer him ASAP, either with a counter, an instant removal spell, or, if you go next, a boardwipe or ETB trigger.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Lighthouse Chronologist is an amazing little card. I played it in Azami forever. I have always played him and levelled him all the way up the turn I play him with countermagic backup, or an voidmage/Glen Elandra out first. Ah the glory!
One of my favorite cards, but I'm a bit infamous for it and usually people anticipate and kill him. That said, usually Nykthos is all it takes, which I search with Tolaria West anyway.
Too bad 60 card casual no longer exists beyond kitchen table, because that's what this is made for.
I don't understand how any reasonable player would ever get upset losing to this, yet it happens all the time. Lighthouse is in a this weird spot where it acts like a litmus test for your playgroup. You play it and your group is nothing but whiny, angry scrubs or you never get a chance to play it because your group is too fast.
However, if you play it in your group and it wins less than half the time (and people are having fun) and then the other times it dies or is disrupted then your group is a in a good place.
I don't understand how any reasonable player would ever get upset losing to this, yet it happens all the time. Lighthouse is in a this weird spot where it acts like a litmus test for your playgroup. You play it and your group is nothing but whiny, angry scrubs or you never get a chance to play it because your group is too fast.
You playing him is not what makes your opponents scrubs. A scrub is someone who would rather ***** for hours on end about how unfair it is than slot in a damned removal instant. Being a bad player is one thing; insisting that everyone let you win while you're being a bad player is another.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I don't understand how any reasonable player would ever get upset losing to this, yet it happens all the time. Lighthouse is in a this weird spot where it acts like a litmus test for your playgroup. You play it and your group is nothing but whiny, angry scrubs or you never get a chance to play it because your group is too fast.
You playing him is not what makes your opponents scrubs. A scrub is someone who would rather ***** for hours on end about how unfair it is than slot in a damned removal instant. Being a bad player is one thing; insisting that everyone let you win while you're being a bad player is another.
I'm not insisting anyone "let me win."
If it wasn't clear, my point is that anyone who complains about lighthouse chronologist is a scrub. If a player complains about him, I can pretty much tell I don't want to play against that player.
I also wouldn't want to play against players who just "let" anyone win. Where did I say playing him automatically makes opponents scrubs? However, playing him will readily reveal the scrubs at the table.
To make it clearer, my stance is that Lightihouse cannot be played in many groups because:
A.) He's not a good enough card to run against players with good decks. Even decks that aren't built to win asap, but decks that are just tuned to run well will easily dispatch him.
B.) He's a card that draws complaints from people who play poorly built decks.
So, Lighthouse Chronologist is a controversial card for sure. It has a TON of power but costs a lot of upfront investment and a lot of colored mana. I am primarily looking at this from the standpoint of a mono blue deck because I think as you add more colors it gets even weaker. I am working on a Kefnet the Mindful deck and I was looking to see what others experience with the card have been. For the most part I have steered clear from the 1UUUUUUUU investment. If you try to break it up into multiple turns it opens more options for removal but if you do it all in one turn its super mana heavy and hard to keep up defenses for it as well as it being a very late game card to drop.
Even if you drop and fully level it, you are susceptible to any spot removal that has been kept up as well as anything that the next player can do with a full turn. Obviously if its going to be good anywhere its probably going to be a mono blue big mana deck but even then I question the insane upfront cost with a highly fragile body for the mana investment and the attention it draws.
Thoughts? Experiences?
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I use DEN + drake/palinchron for my vela deck. I can even pull it off with cloud of faeries if i have dimir aquaducts.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I thought the general was Kefnet the Mindful.
Pick a win condition. I use Blue sun's zenith.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
There's something just annoying about the Chronologist, whereas I'd rather just lose to an infinite turn loop then have to sit through an opponent getting 3 extra turns in between everyone else's.
UBRG Yidris, Eye of the Storm
WBR Kaalia, Herald of Apocalypse
UBG Damia, Sage of Nightmare
WBG Karador, the Bridge Between
WU Grand Warden Augustin IV
RG Omnath, Locus of Awakening
BG Nath Addict
UR Niv Mizzet, Brain Aflame
B Kokusho, the Mourning Star
U Memnarch is All
It is removal bait.
I own one and am happy to have it in my collection. I have never used it in a game, though after finding a conpy of Oloro in a trade binder a few weeks ago, I am aquiring the cards and accessories (sleeves, deck box, etc) to buikd a deck led by the life gain Giant. I think this creature would be a solid addition to such a deck.
The fact that Vorel can help get level counters, and occasionally the deck does things like tap Astral Cornucopia for 32x blue at a time makes the high cost of maxing out the Chronologist's level less burdensome.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
You need to learn when to drop and level it up though. Sometimes he is useful to simply drop and get your opponents to use removal on so you can protect something you need more. Other times he is useful for dumping excess mana into, while being a threat. Sometimes you can level him up in one go and run away with the game. I run him in Azami, so it helps he can tap for a card if nothing else.
I wish he were a Legendary creature you could level up at instant speed. Would make a great commander
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
Thats the issue. I'm playing UB you are playing U
My win con is the massive bounce effects killing my opponents, thanks to Vela the Night-clad's ability
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I think you may be missing the point. Kefnet lets you draw your entire deck with infinite mana, so as long as you have a win condition somewhere in it, you're good.
I have tried the chronologist out a bit but I found that Time Stretch was much more reliable at that mana point. I imagine I'd want Expropriate in this slot before chronologist, too. The issue I tend to have with chronologist is that he's an all-or-nothing card that preys on metas that have not yet learned the value of spot removal. I'd say pass on him.
I will say this however; that a fully leveled Lighthouse Chronologist is no joke and is worth every bit of resource that you use to level it up. It's just a lightning rod for removal however, so unless you are running a deck full of lightning rods (which many UG decks can be) or counters (which blue decks should be running anyway) then it will just eat a removal spell unless you wait to run it out. I don't necessarily prescribe to the "dies to removal" argument for not running stuff, but if you do run it you need to play accordingly.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
And trust me, this usually won't win you the game directly.
What it will do is win the game indirectly!
While everyone is freaking out about the Chronologist you sneak in the real dangerous stuff.
He's not as abusable as other time walks, such as Time Warp + Charmbreaker Devils (where you have no other instants or sorceries in your graveyard) or Sage of Hours + Ezuri, Claw of Progress or even Magistrate's Scepter + Gilder Bairn. So he's not too bad in that regard.
On phasing:
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I don't understand how any reasonable player would ever get upset losing to this, yet it happens all the time. Lighthouse is in a this weird spot where it acts like a litmus test for your playgroup. You play it and your group is nothing but whiny, angry scrubs or you never get a chance to play it because your group is too fast.
However, if you play it in your group and it wins less than half the time (and people are having fun) and then the other times it dies or is disrupted then your group is a in a good place.
You playing him is not what makes your opponents scrubs. A scrub is someone who would rather ***** for hours on end about how unfair it is than slot in a damned removal instant. Being a bad player is one thing; insisting that everyone let you win while you're being a bad player is another.
On phasing:
I'm not insisting anyone "let me win."
If it wasn't clear, my point is that anyone who complains about lighthouse chronologist is a scrub. If a player complains about him, I can pretty much tell I don't want to play against that player.
I also wouldn't want to play against players who just "let" anyone win. Where did I say playing him automatically makes opponents scrubs? However, playing him will readily reveal the scrubs at the table.
To make it clearer, my stance is that Lightihouse cannot be played in many groups because:
A.) He's not a good enough card to run against players with good decks. Even decks that aren't built to win asap, but decks that are just tuned to run well will easily dispatch him.
B.) He's a card that draws complaints from people who play poorly built decks.