I use numot and while i do agree there are issues now and then, it was fun locking one player (Who wins 90% of games he is involved in) out completely.
at Caller_of_the_claw: Hellkite charger as been gone for a long time now.
lol I could never find fun in that. I feel much more satisfaction when I'm taking it to a stronger foe with my jank 5 color dragon cas' deck rather than cutting his legs out from under him and kicking him while he's helpless. I think the lowest I would willingly go is keeping my group's top player from keeping Mairsil, the Pretender on the field with constant Wasitora, Nekoru Queen attacks because I don't care how handsome Mairsil is, he's Arcum Dagsson in disguise.
In other news I opened a mana drain in an Iconic Masters draft I held. The first thought that sprung to my mind was "Oh my god it's that one card I always wanted to add to my Intet, the Dreamer! Oh. Wait. Change in a relationship is never easy..."
lol I could never find fun in that. I feel much more satisfaction when I'm taking it to a stronger foe with my jank 5 color dragon cas' deck rather than cutting his legs out from under him and kicking him while he's helpless. I think the lowest I would willingly go is keeping my group's top player from keeping Mairsil, the Pretender on the field with constant Wasitora, Nekoru Queen attacks because I don't care how handsome Mairsil is, he's Arcum Dagsson in disguise.
In other news I opened a mana drain in an Iconic Masters draft I held. The first thought that sprung to my mind was "Oh my god it's that one card I always wanted to add to my Intet, the Dreamer! Oh. Wait. Change in a relationship is never easy..."
Generally I would agree with you, but when my opponent can (And often does) change an obvious defeat into a laughable win win, Cutting his legs off seems like a fair strategy.
Tat said, When i see someone pull out a Numot deck, I go after them. I am not a fan of MLD (Even if I am Building a Zurgo Helmsmasher deck, where te main focus is Board wipes and even tossing in an MLD or two.
EDIT: I said I made changes, but forgot to save. Changes are there now.
Thank you. Made some adjustments. Took out one of each basic land, added Windswept Heath and Command Beacon (just got back from LGS ). Also added in some instant removals. I've looked at Urza's Incubator and plan to pick it up soon. Thanks for that. I saw it in the case at LGS once and should have grabbed it then. I really want Sarkhan the Mad too, but traded for Sarkhan Vol the other day and put him in there until I can get the other.
Day of the Dragons: This one bewilders me. Why are you turning your dragons into...dragons?
Primal Vigor: This hurts more than helps even in an actual token or +1/+1 counter deck.
Panharmonicon: I think I counted 5 creatures with ETBs. I'd actually run Torpor Orb before I'd run Panharmonicon with such a small presence of ETB effects
Crucible of Fire: Such a redundant card. Your dragons are already big.
I see way too many dragons and such a small amount of ramp making this deck look really unwieldy.
Your removal package isn't very good as Rain of thorns is outclassed by a number of boardwipes or even Decimate while Fractured Identity is not really a removal spell at all. I see the deck going up against problems it has no hope of solving fairly frequently.
I see some combos sprinkled in but I don't see them ever landing because they're already hard enough to set up but there's also such a meager supply of draw and search in the deck.
Did you see the part where I said I'm new? Advice and constructive criticism are great and appreciated. You can help without belittling. If that wasn't your intention then perhaps work on your delivery. I'm still figuring all this out. I'm wide open to suggestions.
First, this isn't meant to be a deck full of combos (I do like my Savage Ventmaw and Aggravated Assault though). It's meant to put big dragons on the field and hammer my opponent(s).
So, a free 5/5 dragon at the beginning of every upkeep isn't helpful? Sure I can cast a dragon with six lands... and I can have a 5/5 flyer for free every turn. And with Primal Vigor... I can have TWO free 5/5 flyers every turn.
And again, with Primal Vigor, Jugan, the Rising Star can die and I get to distribute TEN +1/+1 counters across my creatures. Along with Crucible of Fire, I don't see what's wrong with making big dragons almost immune to combat damage. Especially if I can get a card on the field that gives them all trample.
Steely Resolve I can see being more effective. Thanks. Kira, Glass Spinner... not so much since that only prevents it the first time each turn.
Day of the Dragons allows me free dragons that, albeit for maybe one or two turns, can attack and deal some damage or maybe die... or maybe even be sacrificed. Then I (or my opponent(s))can remove Day of the Dragons, and I bring back a whole board with what I had before. Maybe it doesn't work, but it's easily replaceable.
Thanks for the suggestion on Decimate. I actually have that card. I like Fractured Identity. Especially for 1v1.
I don't see how I'm being belittling. It's just critique, man.
Dragonmaster Outcast never sticks around. It dies to absolutely everything. It's cute on paper and I always wanted to like the card but in reality it is slow and nothing you can't do better by the nature of the deck itself. If you like tokens Dragon Broodmother is a dragon that also gives you a little swarm and it does not even have to wait until your upkeep. I'd even go as far as to say that even Dragon Roost is better than the Outcast and it's still not a very good card.
You're looking into these really specific interactions that are still somewhat underwhelming and are rarely ever going to happen especially without much search and draw. Probability indicates that Primal Vigor is going to aid your opponents more than it will you. Your dragons are big as is so I'd rather worry about reinforcing your decks weaknesses than its strengths.
Day of the Dragons is not free dragons as much as it is replacing your dragons with generic dragon tokens. It actually works against you if you summon any dragons after you cast Day of the Dragons because when it's gone you will have to sacrifice all of your dragons at the time. I almost want to say that it's like putting Grafted Skullcap in a counter spell deck. It has its use but not in a dragon deck. Maybe you're looking for an instant board state with cards like Patriarch's Bidding, Selvala's Stampede, or Genesis Wave?
Gotcha. I didn't realize that Primal Vigor would have the effect for everyone's creatures. I'm going to have to read these cards more closely... I see now that some of the wording can be a little shifty. Thanks for that.
I don't have Dragon Broodmother yet but it's been on my wishlist for a while. What do you think about Skyline Despot in that spot?
Skyline Despot is...interesting. I've toyed with using it in my deck from time to time. It at least replaces itself when it resolves but I can only think of one time I got the token on upkeep. The monarch virus can have some very fascinating ramifications. Amusing and risky, Skyline Despot may not be an auto-include for a dragon line up but it's still at the very least a choice.
Of the two I think the Stampede is the better because Genesis Wave requires much more mana to get a good board out of it.
Few more tips. For this deck must lands are Mana Confluence and City of Brass. This one is also great Reliquary Tower (because have more than 7 cards in hand in commander is great). If you have money Cavern of Souls (bought one because my modern elfs) is real deal.
Must enchantment in this deck is Temur Ascendancy..I have Asceticism (helped me so many time).
Igzex about Decimate (first time saw this card) Can i destroy only opponents creature and land if they don't have any artifact or enchantment on the field?
Nope. Decimate requires a target for each category. If they don't have an artifact you have to target one of yours. If no one has an enchantment then you can't cast the spell at all.
Thank you. I have Mana Confluence and Reliquary Tower, and actually had the latter in the deck until last night. I exchanged it for Venser's Journal because of the life gain. I don't know if it's better to have the no limits effect with a land or an artifact, I just thought I might need something to give a healthy life boost because of all the fetches and shocks I've included. This is also the reason I removed Mana Confluence, just because I already have so many lands that drain life. I'm actually using it in a Dino deck I'm building.
I do want to pick up Cavern of Souls. I saw a couple at my LGS a few months ago but didn't grab one when I had the chance. Might do ebay but I'd rather not. I included Unclaimed Territory in this spot since it does the same, just without the counter ability.
Thank you. I have Mana Confluence and Reliquary Tower, and actually had the latter in the deck until last night. I exchanged it for Venser's Journal because of the life gain. I don't know if it's better to have the no limits effect with a land or an artifact, I just thought I might need something to give a healthy life boost because of all the fetches and shocks I've included. This is also the reason I removed Mana Confluence, just because I already have so many lands that drain life. I'm actually using it in a Dino deck I'm building.
I do want to pick up Cavern of Souls. I saw a couple at my LGS a few months ago but didn't grab one when I had the chance. Might do ebay but I'd rather not. I included Unclaimed Territory in this spot since it does the same, just without the counter ability.
Journal isn't a good idea in this deck. Its just not the sort of thing you want to do with five mana. Either go with Reliquary Tower, or you can get Thought Vessel. Generally, if you can have an effect on a land and it not disrupt you mana base too much(moat utility lands don't make colored mana) then you probably should qs lands are generally the hardest kind of permanent to remove.
Confluence is fine. Trust me. You're a new player and not wanting to pay life is a phase we've all been through. The sooner you learn that its just another resource amd that the only life point that matters is the last one the better off you'll be.
Cavern is nice but I dont have one(way out of my price range) and I've always been fine. Dragonlord Dromoka is a strong way to protect all of your spells.
Ascendency is indeed an allstar but I'd say that Ascetism is another card thats too high on the curve to be as good here as it would be elsewhere. Once you hit five or six mana you should be looking to start dropping bombs. Set up things like protection early on with things like Steely Resolve once you're set up protect with cheaper, more flexible cards like Boros Charm and Silumgar's Scorn. In other decks higher priced protection like this can be good but because dragons are expensive, a feature most other tribal decks don't have to deal with, the effectiveness is reduced.
Excellent information!! Thank you so much. I have Boros Charm and probably have Silumgar's Scorn. I really like Deflecting Palm because it just seems unexpected, but perhaps I should replace it with one of the others.
Excellent information!! Thank you so much. I have Boros Charm and probably have Silumgar's Scorn. I really like Deflecting Palm because it just seems unexpected, but perhaps I should replace it with one of the others.
The only time Deflecting Palm is going to be any good is against Blasphemous Act or fireballs from decka like Neheb, the Eternal or Wort, the Raidmother. Or maybe if you have a particularly problematic Voltron deck in your meta. Otherwise its not going to get you much value.
LOL
hope i can get a chance to play it tonight (And have it work) I eel having a few good permanent in my hand when I play it would be the proper payoff. (plus i can bluff, look at my hand, make an "ah crap" face and go with wild. They ca choose for free, i play my good stuff and get a creature. Or if i have a bunch of bad cards in hand/non permanents, i can act like i want to play stuff from my hand and they will call wild.)
LOL
hope i can get a chance to play it tonight (And have it work) I eel having a few good permanent in my hand when I play it would be the proper payoff. (plus i can bluff, look at my hand, make an "ah crap" face and go with wild. They ca choose for free, i play my good stuff and get a creature. Or if i have a bunch of bad cards in hand/non permanents, i can act like i want to play stuff from my hand and they will call wild.)
I'll warn you that bluffing that way will only work once if your opponents are worth their salt. I pulled basically the same thing the first time I played it. From then on they have basically always gone with Wild because they assume I'm not playing it if I have no good cards in hand to drop with it.
The only time Deflecting Palm is going to be any good is against Blasphemous Act or fireballs from decka like Neheb, the Eternal or Wort, the Raidmother. Or maybe if you have a particularly problematic Voltron deck in your meta. Otherwise its not going to get you much value.
Does it not work against combat damage? Thought maybe I could use Deflecting Palm to counter damage from another big creature instead of blocking and potentially losing one of mine.
Does it not work against combat damage? Thought maybe I could use Deflecting Palm to counter damage from another big creature instead of blocking and potentially losing one of mine.
It does but you're not getting much value. Outside of the Voltron decks I mentioned before you're generally not going to see a single creature, remember that Palm only works on a single source, thats big enough to justify this cards use. Youre better off just using a Fog since it has the flexibility to stop all creatures from hitting you or Safe Passage if you want it to be one sided. Another thing you'll learn the longer you play is card economy. When is an effect worth the card in your deck? And in this case there are just better things you could be doing.
All of that said this is commander and if you want to put an effect in your deck because you feel like its a cool effect then go for it.
Last six games i played with The Immortal Sun and this card is a beast. Artifact for 6 mana and you draw additional card at draw step, your creatures have +1+1, every spells cost 1 less, and players can't use loyalty abilities from planeswalker.
Oh yes, most definitely. An AMAZING card that is overlooked due to its mana cost. I feel I am the only one at my LGS who plays it. (thing is, it has also won me games. Getting that extra draw, getting that extra damage to push me over the edge. Or shutting down a troublesome PW. (Like a Karn who is about to go off with a few game-winning exiled permanents)
at Caller_of_the_claw: Hellkite charger as been gone for a long time now.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
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In other news I opened a mana drain in an Iconic Masters draft I held. The first thought that sprung to my mind was "Oh my god it's that one card I always wanted to add to my Intet, the Dreamer! Oh. Wait. Change in a relationship is never easy..."
Generally I would agree with you, but when my opponent can (And often does) change an obvious defeat into a laughable win win, Cutting his legs off seems like a fair strategy.
Tat said, When i see someone pull out a Numot deck, I go after them. I am not a fan of MLD (Even if I am Building a Zurgo Helmsmasher deck, where te main focus is Board wipes and even tossing in an MLD or two.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/1406-sarkhans-champions
Thank you. Made some adjustments. Took out one of each basic land, added Windswept Heath and Command Beacon (just got back from LGS ). Also added in some instant removals. I've looked at Urza's Incubator and plan to pick it up soon. Thanks for that. I saw it in the case at LGS once and should have grabbed it then. I really want Sarkhan the Mad too, but traded for Sarkhan Vol the other day and put him in there until I can get the other.
Dragonmaster Outcast: Why keep your fingers crossed for your next upkeep when you can easily cast an actual dragon with 6 lands.
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant: There are better ways to protect your dragons like Steely Resolve or Kira, Great Glass-Spinner which is about as off-topic but more effective.
Jugan, the Rising Star: Pretty hard to cast for a dragon that hardly does anything.
Day of the Dragons: This one bewilders me. Why are you turning your dragons into...dragons?
Primal Vigor: This hurts more than helps even in an actual token or +1/+1 counter deck.
Panharmonicon: I think I counted 5 creatures with ETBs. I'd actually run Torpor Orb before I'd run Panharmonicon with such a small presence of ETB effects
Deflecting Palm: I can't say I'd expect that at least...
Crucible of Fire: Such a redundant card. Your dragons are already big.
I see way too many dragons and such a small amount of ramp making this deck look really unwieldy.
Your removal package isn't very good as Rain of thorns is outclassed by a number of boardwipes or even Decimate while Fractured Identity is not really a removal spell at all. I see the deck going up against problems it has no hope of solving fairly frequently.
I see some combos sprinkled in but I don't see them ever landing because they're already hard enough to set up but there's also such a meager supply of draw and search in the deck.
Even your sideboard is kinda weird with cards that look like they were intended for an entirely different deck. Assemble the Legion? Mishra's Bauble? Collected Company???
First, this isn't meant to be a deck full of combos (I do like my Savage Ventmaw and Aggravated Assault though). It's meant to put big dragons on the field and hammer my opponent(s).
So, a free 5/5 dragon at the beginning of every upkeep isn't helpful? Sure I can cast a dragon with six lands... and I can have a 5/5 flyer for free every turn. And with Primal Vigor... I can have TWO free 5/5 flyers every turn.
And again, with Primal Vigor, Jugan, the Rising Star can die and I get to distribute TEN +1/+1 counters across my creatures. Along with Crucible of Fire, I don't see what's wrong with making big dragons almost immune to combat damage. Especially if I can get a card on the field that gives them all trample.
Steely Resolve I can see being more effective. Thanks. Kira, Glass Spinner... not so much since that only prevents it the first time each turn.
Day of the Dragons allows me free dragons that, albeit for maybe one or two turns, can attack and deal some damage or maybe die... or maybe even be sacrificed. Then I (or my opponent(s))can remove Day of the Dragons, and I bring back a whole board with what I had before. Maybe it doesn't work, but it's easily replaceable.
Thanks for the suggestion on Decimate. I actually have that card. I like Fractured Identity. Especially for 1v1.
Dragonmaster Outcast never sticks around. It dies to absolutely everything. It's cute on paper and I always wanted to like the card but in reality it is slow and nothing you can't do better by the nature of the deck itself. If you like tokens Dragon Broodmother is a dragon that also gives you a little swarm and it does not even have to wait until your upkeep. I'd even go as far as to say that even Dragon Roost is better than the Outcast and it's still not a very good card.
You're looking into these really specific interactions that are still somewhat underwhelming and are rarely ever going to happen especially without much search and draw. Probability indicates that Primal Vigor is going to aid your opponents more than it will you. Your dragons are big as is so I'd rather worry about reinforcing your decks weaknesses than its strengths.
Day of the Dragons is not free dragons as much as it is replacing your dragons with generic dragon tokens. It actually works against you if you summon any dragons after you cast Day of the Dragons because when it's gone you will have to sacrifice all of your dragons at the time. I almost want to say that it's like putting Grafted Skullcap in a counter spell deck. It has its use but not in a dragon deck. Maybe you're looking for an instant board state with cards like Patriarch's Bidding, Selvala's Stampede, or Genesis Wave?
I don't have Dragon Broodmother yet but it's been on my wishlist for a while. What do you think about Skyline Despot in that spot?
I have both Selvala's Stampede and Genesis Wave, should I use one over the other? Or maybe both? Thanks!
Of the two I think the Stampede is the better because Genesis Wave requires much more mana to get a good board out of it.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/1406-sarkhans-champions
Nope. Decimate requires a target for each category. If they don't have an artifact you have to target one of yours. If no one has an enchantment then you can't cast the spell at all.
I do want to pick up Cavern of Souls. I saw a couple at my LGS a few months ago but didn't grab one when I had the chance. Might do ebay but I'd rather not. I included Unclaimed Territory in this spot since it does the same, just without the counter ability.
I'll look at Temur Ascendancy and Asceticism too. Thanks.
Journal isn't a good idea in this deck. Its just not the sort of thing you want to do with five mana. Either go with Reliquary Tower, or you can get Thought Vessel. Generally, if you can have an effect on a land and it not disrupt you mana base too much(moat utility lands don't make colored mana) then you probably should qs lands are generally the hardest kind of permanent to remove.
Confluence is fine. Trust me. You're a new player and not wanting to pay life is a phase we've all been through. The sooner you learn that its just another resource amd that the only life point that matters is the last one the better off you'll be.
Cavern is nice but I dont have one(way out of my price range) and I've always been fine. Dragonlord Dromoka is a strong way to protect all of your spells.
Ascendency is indeed an allstar but I'd say that Ascetism is another card thats too high on the curve to be as good here as it would be elsewhere. Once you hit five or six mana you should be looking to start dropping bombs. Set up things like protection early on with things like Steely Resolve once you're set up protect with cheaper, more flexible cards like Boros Charm and Silumgar's Scorn. In other decks higher priced protection like this can be good but because dragons are expensive, a feature most other tribal decks don't have to deal with, the effectiveness is reduced.
The only time Deflecting Palm is going to be any good is against Blasphemous Act or fireballs from decka like Neheb, the Eternal or Wort, the Raidmother. Or maybe if you have a particularly problematic Voltron deck in your meta. Otherwise its not going to get you much value.
added that to my deck about an hour ago.
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WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
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https://youtu.be/EzfkxAC-Bw8
hope i can get a chance to play it tonight (And have it work) I eel having a few good permanent in my hand when I play it would be the proper payoff. (plus i can bluff, look at my hand, make an "ah crap" face and go with wild. They ca choose for free, i play my good stuff and get a creature. Or if i have a bunch of bad cards in hand/non permanents, i can act like i want to play stuff from my hand and they will call wild.)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I'll warn you that bluffing that way will only work once if your opponents are worth their salt. I pulled basically the same thing the first time I played it. From then on they have basically always gone with Wild because they assume I'm not playing it if I have no good cards in hand to drop with it.
Does it not work against combat damage? Thought maybe I could use Deflecting Palm to counter damage from another big creature instead of blocking and potentially losing one of mine.
It does but you're not getting much value. Outside of the Voltron decks I mentioned before you're generally not going to see a single creature, remember that Palm only works on a single source, thats big enough to justify this cards use. Youre better off just using a Fog since it has the flexibility to stop all creatures from hitting you or Safe Passage if you want it to be one sided. Another thing you'll learn the longer you play is card economy. When is an effect worth the card in your deck? And in this case there are just better things you could be doing.
All of that said this is commander and if you want to put an effect in your deck because you feel like its a cool effect then go for it.
Oh yes, most definitely. An AMAZING card that is overlooked due to its mana cost. I feel I am the only one at my LGS who plays it. (thing is, it has also won me games. Getting that extra draw, getting that extra damage to push me over the edge. Or shutting down a troublesome PW. (Like a Karn who is about to go off with a few game-winning exiled permanents)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist