I picked up the dragons deck from C17. I will be taking a good handful of the W and U stuff out to slot into other decks I have, but would largely leave the BRG stuff untouched, so am seriously considering turning the leftovers into a Wasitora, Nekoru Queen deck.
I’ll be honest: my main idea with the deck is to just make as many adorable cat dragon tokens as possible. I’m not fully decided, however, because I’m getting hung up on the condition to make the token in that the defending player has to be in a position where he or she “can’t” sacrifice a creature. In a generally creature-heavy format (and IMO creature-heavy meta) with a bunch of shiny new tribal decks stomping around, I feel that restriction would really constrict the number of tokens I can actually generate with Wasitora. Sure, flying and trample help her get the damage through, but it’s the sac condition that is getting to me.
With that in mind, I still brainstormed. I’m not in a competitive meta, although we do use powerful cards, and no one tries to win by the first few turns. My meta generally likes to play some games out and have fun, even with some powerful cards, but not looking to combo off as early as possible or anything. For Wasitora, I was initially thinking of a battlecruiser-type deck to relax and have fun with, keeping the BRG cards from the C17 Dragons deck as a base. Again, thinking to the “Can’t” sacrifice a creature condition, I felt a good theme to the deck would be removal – and lots of it – preferably of the targeted type so that Wasitora can stay on the field to attack through. I really liked the idea of specifically sacrifice and edict sub-themes. Then, I thought if that should generate some more tokens, then perhaps I can throw in some tokens matters themed stuff (token doublers, etc.). Oh, Wasitora and the tokens she generates are cat and dragon types, so some tribal stuff could be powerful too, along with adding some other choice dragons for good measure. Hmmm, Wasitora already has a good body and swell evasion (5/4 flying trampler for 5CMC), could be powerful to add some pumps and equipment for herself to focus on commander damage, despite whether she makes some tokens or not on each hit. . .
And now I feel the ideas are pulling in too many directions for any one theme to be effective. Which idea, or any of your own, do you think would be effective for Wasitora as a commander? How might someone (like me!) go about attempting to create a bunch of kittens with wings (tokens from Wasitora)? For the sake of discussion in case anyone else is interested, we can abandon budget limits/constraints and power levels. I’m interested to hear some ideas! Thanks everyone!
I remove her from my deck as i did not want to deal with her.
I would have kept hernor even bhilt a deck arou dbher if her ability was
When ~ deals combat damage choose a creature an opponent controls. That player may sacrafkce the creature, if tbey do not put a 3/3 cat dragon into play...
It is a good target removal and if they keep the creature you get tokens. Hell even defending player would be worth it. (Plus if it is defending player. Baits you to attack players with creatures)
I like your analysis and I have been going through many of the same thought processes as you. I also would love to have many dragon kittens! The only way I can see to make as many dragon kitten tokens as possible is to provide:
- Double strike enablers
- Token doublers such as primal vigor, parallel lives, and doubling season
- Gravepact effects so that they have nothing to sacrifice. This means we need to make tokens or lots of creatures to sacrifice.
I agree this seems like too much is going on. I was thinking about ramping to get her out early so that tokens could be made before boards are developed. Conversely, I could wait until a board wipe and then play her out with haste enablers. I'm starting to think this is the way to go. But is that more of a control build than aggro?
I'm working on the deck now and will play it tomorrow. I will post again about my thoughts. I'd love to hear more of yours.
Conversely, I could wait until a board wipe and then play her out with haste enablers. I'm starting to think this is the way to go. But is that more of a control build than aggro?
Sounds like a mix, bit I feel the nature of Wasitora's ability forces some control elements to actually trigger with consistency.
I'm leaning toward giving Wasitora indestructible via some equipment, then raining down some heavy mass removal from tons of board wipes, edicts, and board-wide damage from spells a la Blasphemous Act, Earthquake, etc. Basically doing as much as possible to keep the board clear. But, of course, this line would also likely often bop the kitty tokens that I wanted to begin with!
I like your analysis and I have been going through many of the same thought processes as you. I also would love to have many dragon kittens! The only way I can see to make as many dragon kitten tokens as possible is to provide:
- Double strike enablers
- Token doublers such as primal vigor, parallel lives, and doubling season
- Gravepact effects so that they have nothing to sacrifice. This means we need to make tokens or lots of creatures to sacrifice.
I agree this seems like too much is going on. I was thinking about ramping to get her out early so that tokens could be made before boards are developed. Conversely, I could wait until a board wipe and then play her out with haste enablers. I'm starting to think this is the way to go. But is that more of a control build than aggro?
I'm working on the deck now and will play it tomorrow. I will post again about my thoughts. I'd love to hear more of yours.
Here's to Dragon cats!!
Follow that train of thought, extra combat with haste enabler allow you to attack with kitties right after you gave birth to them.
I like your analysis and I have been going through many of the same thought processes as you. I also would love to have many dragon kittens! The only way I can see to make as many dragon kitten tokens as possible is to provide:
- Double strike enablers
- Token doublers such as primal vigor, parallel lives, and doubling season
- Gravepact effects so that they have nothing to sacrifice. This means we need to make tokens or lots of creatures to sacrifice.
I agree this seems like too much is going on. I was thinking about ramping to get her out early so that tokens could be made before boards are developed. Conversely, I could wait until a board wipe and then play her out with haste enablers. I'm starting to think this is the way to go. But is that more of a control build than aggro?
I'm working on the deck now and will play it tomorrow. I will post again about my thoughts. I'd love to hear more of yours.
Here's to Dragon cats!!
That doesn't seem like too much. I'd say double strike and edicts are more important than token doublers. Throw a doubling season into one slot, and if you pull it then lucky you. But if you're making tokens you're already doing what the deck wants to do, so its just win more.
Honestly though if you just dedicate 10 slots to those 3 effects you can include all the good ones (Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, Butcher of Malakir, Doubling Season, Fireshrieker, Atarka, World Render, Rage Reflection, etc...). I call these type of effects my "nitro effects". They don't really help the bones of deck (i.e. ramp, mana fixing, blockers/attackers, draw, control, etc...), but they turn your deck up to 11 when dropped and unanswered.
Edicts are bonkers in token decks, so definitely use a lot of them. Of course you'll be saccing your cats, so maybe emotionally prepare for that...
Honestly if you want Wasitora advice, I'd look at Prossh lists. They're incredibly similar cards, in that they're both Jund token makers that want to deal combat damage. Prossh's tokens are obviously front loaded while Wasitora has more long term staying power.
Anthem effects can be great because they'll pump both your cats and Wasitora, so they'll help her connect and remain useful later when you tilt your board.
I'm actually thinking of going Wasitora as my new dragon deck than Ur-Dragon as I don't think I still fully understand what I'm even doing with five colors.
One-sided wipes to ensure you get your kitties are also a must. Crux of Fate obviously and Kindred Dominance actually looks good in this build because you can just say "Cat" in a dragons mirror. Since your creatures are usually bigger than others Toxic Deluge can be pretty great. Disaster Radius...ehhh...maybe.
1) Enchant the creature w/ BoF
2) Attack with Wasitora and that creature
3) Stack your triggers so you make a kitty before you sac the creature
4)Attach BoF to kitty
5) Repeat
Honestly I dont think Wasitora is general material. She's worse than Kaarthus as a dragon commander and she feels like she wants to be a Shattergang Bro but got nervous in the practical exams and under performed. So far she's done fine as part of the precon but she probably won't make the cut after I start making changes.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I actually really like Wasitora. When there are fewer opponents (like 1v1 or 1v2), she becomes a flying threat that either diabolic edicts or makes additional attackers.
All this fits in a typical good-stuff jund creature deck. Wasitora is the jund-dragon for a slightly quicker meta that doesn't want to food chain combo.
She is not exceptionally competitive, but having a possible diabolic edict in the command zone if you get a reliable amount of haste is very good. She is the closest thraximundar variant that jund will likely ever have.
I would Like to say Worldslayer + Some sort of indestructible. I may be wrong, but you should be able to put Worldslayer's ability on the stack before Wasitora, Nekoru Queen's to board wipe, then get the cat dragon token and you can run darksteel forge and mycosynth lattice aswell to protect your board, though it is 15 mana
Worldslayer would do the trick, but if I destroy all permanents (including lands), I feel like most opponents would be hard pressed to continue that game anyway, especially if Wasitora, Nekoru Queen is indescribable, making the resulting token moot.
You would stack them with Wasitora on the bottom. (An aside: Shouldn't that be Wa*****ora?) Worldslayer would resolve first.
Aether Flash can keep them from sacrificing small tokens by simply killing those tokens as soon as they enter. And it's just small enough to protect your cats.
Also, why is a necropost from 11 months ago back on the first page?
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I picked up the dragons deck from C17. I will be taking a good handful of the W and U stuff out to slot into other decks I have, but would largely leave the BRG stuff untouched, so am seriously considering turning the leftovers into a Wasitora, Nekoru Queen deck.
I’ll be honest: my main idea with the deck is to just make as many adorable cat dragon tokens as possible. I’m not fully decided, however, because I’m getting hung up on the condition to make the token in that the defending player has to be in a position where he or she “can’t” sacrifice a creature. In a generally creature-heavy format (and IMO creature-heavy meta) with a bunch of shiny new tribal decks stomping around, I feel that restriction would really constrict the number of tokens I can actually generate with Wasitora. Sure, flying and trample help her get the damage through, but it’s the sac condition that is getting to me.
With that in mind, I still brainstormed. I’m not in a competitive meta, although we do use powerful cards, and no one tries to win by the first few turns. My meta generally likes to play some games out and have fun, even with some powerful cards, but not looking to combo off as early as possible or anything. For Wasitora, I was initially thinking of a battlecruiser-type deck to relax and have fun with, keeping the BRG cards from the C17 Dragons deck as a base. Again, thinking to the “Can’t” sacrifice a creature condition, I felt a good theme to the deck would be removal – and lots of it – preferably of the targeted type so that Wasitora can stay on the field to attack through. I really liked the idea of specifically sacrifice and edict sub-themes. Then, I thought if that should generate some more tokens, then perhaps I can throw in some tokens matters themed stuff (token doublers, etc.). Oh, Wasitora and the tokens she generates are cat and dragon types, so some tribal stuff could be powerful too, along with adding some other choice dragons for good measure. Hmmm, Wasitora already has a good body and swell evasion (5/4 flying trampler for 5CMC), could be powerful to add some pumps and equipment for herself to focus on commander damage, despite whether she makes some tokens or not on each hit. . .
And now I feel the ideas are pulling in too many directions for any one theme to be effective. Which idea, or any of your own, do you think would be effective for Wasitora as a commander? How might someone (like me!) go about attempting to create a bunch of kittens with wings (tokens from Wasitora)? For the sake of discussion in case anyone else is interested, we can abandon budget limits/constraints and power levels. I’m interested to hear some ideas! Thanks everyone!
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
I would have kept hernor even bhilt a deck arou dbher if her ability was
When ~ deals combat damage choose a creature an opponent controls. That player may sacrafkce the creature, if tbey do not put a 3/3 cat dragon into play...
It is a good target removal and if they keep the creature you get tokens. Hell even defending player would be worth it. (Plus if it is defending player. Baits you to attack players with creatures)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
- Double strike enablers
- Token doublers such as primal vigor, parallel lives, and doubling season
- Gravepact effects so that they have nothing to sacrifice. This means we need to make tokens or lots of creatures to sacrifice.
I agree this seems like too much is going on. I was thinking about ramping to get her out early so that tokens could be made before boards are developed. Conversely, I could wait until a board wipe and then play her out with haste enablers. I'm starting to think this is the way to go. But is that more of a control build than aggro?
I'm working on the deck now and will play it tomorrow. I will post again about my thoughts. I'd love to hear more of yours.
Here's to Dragon cats!!
Sounds like a mix, bit I feel the nature of Wasitora's ability forces some control elements to actually trigger with consistency.
I'm leaning toward giving Wasitora indestructible via some equipment, then raining down some heavy mass removal from tons of board wipes, edicts, and board-wide damage from spells a la Blasphemous Act, Earthquake, etc. Basically doing as much as possible to keep the board clear. But, of course, this line would also likely often bop the kitty tokens that I wanted to begin with!
I'm still in the brainstorming stage.
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
Follow that train of thought, extra combat with haste enabler allow you to attack with kitties right after you gave birth to them.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
That doesn't seem like too much. I'd say double strike and edicts are more important than token doublers. Throw a doubling season into one slot, and if you pull it then lucky you. But if you're making tokens you're already doing what the deck wants to do, so its just win more.
Honestly though if you just dedicate 10 slots to those 3 effects you can include all the good ones (Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, Butcher of Malakir, Doubling Season, Fireshrieker, Atarka, World Render, Rage Reflection, etc...). I call these type of effects my "nitro effects". They don't really help the bones of deck (i.e. ramp, mana fixing, blockers/attackers, draw, control, etc...), but they turn your deck up to 11 when dropped and unanswered.
Edicts are bonkers in token decks, so definitely use a lot of them. Of course you'll be saccing your cats, so maybe emotionally prepare for that...
Honestly if you want Wasitora advice, I'd look at Prossh lists. They're incredibly similar cards, in that they're both Jund token makers that want to deal combat damage. Prossh's tokens are obviously front loaded while Wasitora has more long term staying power.
Anthem effects can be great because they'll pump both your cats and Wasitora, so they'll help her connect and remain useful later when you tilt your board.
Keep with the dragon synergy. Crucible of Fire makes your kitties 6/6. Atarka, World Render gives her double strike and serves as a finisher even without her. Then there's Scourge of the Throne and Hellkite Charger for extra combat phases. You'll need haste so you can swing out of nowhere so Dragon Tempest, Sarkhan Vol, Lightning Greaves, and perhaps even Xenagos, God of Revels just to make sure you have haste.
Doubling Season is an obvious card as not only do you get double kitties but there are other dragon token produces you'd probably run like Utvara Hellkite, Broodmate Dragon and Dragon Broodmother. Maybe Dragon Roost if you have room for an awesome but really impractical mana sink. It also works with any walkers you'd probably include such as Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Sarkhan Vol.
One-sided wipes to ensure you get your kitties are also a must. Crux of Fate obviously and Kindred Dominance actually looks good in this build because you can just say "Cat" in a dragons mirror. Since your creatures are usually bigger than others Toxic Deluge can be pretty great. Disaster Radius...ehhh...maybe.
1) Enchant the creature w/ BoF
2) Attack with Wasitora and that creature
3) Stack your triggers so you make a kitty before you sac the creature
4)Attach BoF to kitty
5) Repeat
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Crucible of Fire makes them +3/+3
Doubling Sesaon, Parallel Lives, you know the drill.
Nacatl War-Pride clears the way, and those kittehs (both sets of them) also can benefit from Coat of Arms.
Qasali Slingers is like a bad Aura Shards, but since you're not in white, "bad" is "as good as it gets".
I'm sure there's some way to break Aggravated Assault with this. Something, could someone help me? Or, just, you know, the Aggravated Assault/Sword of Feast and Famine combo.
On phasing:
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
As previously mentioned - the best effect she has is to be ramped' out with haste and given double-strike. Luckily a bunch of generic jund cards offer all of these effects. All of the 2-drop ramp (rampant growth/nature's lore/farseek/3x signets / 2x talismans / etc), followed by fervor/fires of yavimaya/ogre battle driver/boots/etc, and then rage reflection/psychotic fury/uncaged fury/Samut, the Tested/Berserkers' Onslaught/etc.
All this fits in a typical good-stuff jund creature deck. Wasitora is the jund-dragon for a slightly quicker meta that doesn't want to food chain combo.
She is not exceptionally competitive, but having a possible diabolic edict in the command zone if you get a reliable amount of haste is very good. She is the closest thraximundar variant that jund will likely ever have.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
Aether Flash can keep them from sacrificing small tokens by simply killing those tokens as soon as they enter. And it's just small enough to protect your cats.
Also, why is a necropost from 11 months ago back on the first page?
On phasing: