Menace
At the beginning of your end step, put a bounty counter on target creature an opponent controls. For as long as that creature has a bounty counter on it, it has "When this creature dies, each opponent draws a card and gains 2 life."
----------------
Admitedly, Licia, Sanguine Tribune would also be a refreshing build, a Mardu life gainer, but white/black combo already has many life shenanigans shared over its existence, so that deck is pretty much half-done. Besides, Licia is too straightforward for me, I prefer deviance.
So what good is Mathas?
1) Good mana/size ratio.
2) Ability enables politics.
3) Mardu is the most destructive color combo.
4) Vampire
There’s no class type to work on, but I assume Mathas was an Avacyn faithful turn blood sucker, which is absolutely normal on Innistrad.
So what are some potential synergy we can do with Mathas? In one-on-one, Mathas benefits only its controller, less so in multiplayer. We know his ability lures the group to remove target trouble, then bugs everyone except one, perhaps there’s a way to make it more in favor of your own victory.
1) Suppression/Stax - Mana suppression, either via mass LD or Blood Moon, renders opponent’s draw less effective.
2) Punishment on Life - Black has Tainted Remedy to turn life gain to life loss, and cards like Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood would net even more life for you. Havoc Festival downright halve lives each turn.
3) Punishment on Cards - Black has no lack of hand destruction, red has no lack of wheels, Molten Psyche is an even more blatant punishment on drawing too many cards. Storm World and Ebony Owl Netsuke type cards couple with mana suppression would cause additional pain.
4) Pillowfort/Life-gain win - This one is a given, pillowfort up, play the politic game, then win via the life you gain from dead creatures.
5) Enchantment Sub-theme - Curses, disruptions, and politics mainly. New curses like Curse of Vitality allow you to curse yourself so even if your deck is not combat oriented you benefit from others attacking you.
6) Tribal - Vampires are good at life manipulation and creature removal.
7) Token - Like the way Queen Marchesa, for defense, offense, and sac outlet like Sadistic Hypnotist if discard is preferred.
Note all punish strategies would reduce the benefit of Mathas’s political power, but most people would still prefer killing a creature to get a card (because draw = answer), life gain is usually gravy. Armageddon when everyone has a full hand while having damage/life enchantments out would lock the game down for you to win.
To get the above ideas working:
1) Mana rocks, lots of it.
2) Defense and removal.
3) Protection for Mathas and key creatures.
Now, as always, I will make a list for Mathas as we congregate ideas in this thread. Please help me upgrade the universe. For starter I will put the ones I mentioned up there. I will skip the usual staples (such as Swords to Plowshares and Return to Dust) because they don’t add to the strategy as much.
I think cards like Aether Flash and NoSB are good at killing creatures when they enter, but those creatures won't have the Bounty counter on them to max the benefit. I think Spreading Plague would be ideal. If we want them to die immediately, then something like Blood Artist would definitely be included.
I'm not sure about the whole life to death category. Mathas's main role is to divert opponent's removal to other opponent's stuff because it benefts them more if they do. While I doubt the payoff is big enough to make a suboptimal choice, assuming it is, reducing the benefit your opponent's get is actually counterproductive to the goal Mathas is trying to achieve. I'd say by all means, let your opponent's gain some life of off killing each other's creatures! Grave Pact, Butcher of Malakir and Martyr's Bond are all good additions to further enforce the idea that killing your creatures is a bad idea.
One of the main ways of getting creatures to die is through combat, so I think running stuff like Lightmine Field is counterproductive (Even though I love the combo with Disrupt Decorum) as would stuff that punishes creatures from dying in general.
I think the best way to go about this is to focus on opponent's killing each other's creatures and then use reanimation stuff that lets you reanimate creatures from opponent's graveyard.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
.Burning Sands to REALLY make people want to take down bounties, and hopefully deflect the hate you get by playing this between two players who keep blowing up each others lands
.Vicious Shadows incentifies and takes advantage of the draw they get off of cashing in our bounties
. Blade of the Bloodchief might just make our Mathas or something like Yahenni,Undying Partisan into lethal if we can protect them long enough.
.Toshiro Umezawa can help us flashback some of our removal to hopefully cash in another bounty.
.Wall of Limbs, Vizkopa Guildmage, Karlov of the Ghost Council, Defiant Bloodlord can take advantage of our bounty lifegains.
. I like the idea of Sangromancer, Massacre Wurm, Moonlight Wake, etc getting our life total to just a massive degree and then dropping something like Shrivelling Rot + a boardwipe to just take people out after all the infighting.
I think cards like Aether Flash and NoSB are good at killing creatures when they enter, but those creatures won't have the Bounty counter on them to max the benefit. I think Spreading Plague would be ideal. If we want them to die immediately, then something like Blood Artist would definitely be included.
Ok, so that won't work at all.....
I would just make sure you pack a Strionic Resonator to copy the bounty counter distribution trigger.
How about something less powerful but more in-flavor?
Mardu Curses. Not only are you planting bounties on creatures, you're essentially placing bounties/punishments on players.
I'm not sure about the whole life to death category. Mathas's main role is to divert opponent's removal to other opponent's stuff because it benefts them more if they do. While I doubt the payoff is big enough to make a suboptimal choice, assuming it is, reducing the benefit your opponent's get is actually counterproductive to the goal Mathas is trying to achieve. I'd say by all means, let your opponent's gain some life of off killing each other's creatures! Grave Pact, Butcher of Malakir and Martyr's Bond are all good additions to further enforce the idea that killing your creatures is a bad idea.
One of the main ways of getting creatures to die is through combat, so I think running stuff like Lightmine Field is counterproductive (Even though I love the combo with Disrupt Decorum) as would stuff that punishes creatures from dying in general.
I think the best way to go about this is to focus on opponent's killing each other's creatures and then use reanimation stuff that lets you reanimate creatures from opponent's graveyard.
Yes, I mentioned in my OP that more punishment you dish out, the less political power there is, but it is still an option since you don't lack creature removal of your own. I find a lot of political decks ended up manipulate for manipulate's sake without its own control when needed.
This thread is also more about brainstorming for possibilities of the general's infancy, gathering "options" for people to decided what they want to do. It might end up beyond the original ideas, too. :3
When I first saw Mathas, Fiend Seeker, I thought he was an amazing political card advantage-based commander. But the more I look at him, the less I like him.
Without the right support, in the right meta, in just the right scenarios, he does nothing. Just a 3/3 Menace.
Mardu gives you access to a ton of curses and most importantly black curses. White also gives you enchantment recursion. There are many curses that incentivise opponents beat each other and especially the new curses from C17 also give you the benefit whenever an opponent attacks the cursed player.
Firstly: in the blurb on the mothership, Mathas is a vampure hunter because he wants to be the only one.
Now on to the actual topic: I think Mathas is better politically than Marchesa. All she actually does is introduce the Monarch mechanic which encourages people to attack whoever has the crown. Mathas on the other hand lets you take a poll for the bounty counter. I think he would want Winter Orb, and Howling Mine and other old artifacts that are turned off if they are tapped, along with ways to tap and untap them so not only can you get the benefits or negate the negatives but bribe people with the same.
Thus says Mathas.
----------------
Mathas, Fiend Seeker
RWB
Legendary Creature - Vampire
Menace
At the beginning of your end step, put a bounty counter on target creature an opponent controls. For as long as that creature has a bounty counter on it, it has "When this creature dies, each opponent draws a card and gains 2 life."
----------------
Admitedly, Licia, Sanguine Tribune would also be a refreshing build, a Mardu life gainer, but white/black combo already has many life shenanigans shared over its existence, so that deck is pretty much half-done. Besides, Licia is too straightforward for me, I prefer deviance.
So what good is Mathas?
1) Good mana/size ratio.
2) Ability enables politics.
3) Mardu is the most destructive color combo.
4) Vampire
There’s no class type to work on, but I assume Mathas was an Avacyn faithful turn blood sucker, which is absolutely normal on Innistrad.
So what are some potential synergy we can do with Mathas? In one-on-one, Mathas benefits only its controller, less so in multiplayer. We know his ability lures the group to remove target trouble, then bugs everyone except one, perhaps there’s a way to make it more in favor of your own victory.
1) Suppression/Stax - Mana suppression, either via mass LD or Blood Moon, renders opponent’s draw less effective.
2) Punishment on Life - Black has Tainted Remedy to turn life gain to life loss, and cards like Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood would net even more life for you. Havoc Festival downright halve lives each turn.
3) Punishment on Cards - Black has no lack of hand destruction, red has no lack of wheels, Molten Psyche is an even more blatant punishment on drawing too many cards. Storm World and Ebony Owl Netsuke type cards couple with mana suppression would cause additional pain.
4) Pillowfort/Life-gain win - This one is a given, pillowfort up, play the politic game, then win via the life you gain from dead creatures.
5) Enchantment Sub-theme - Curses, disruptions, and politics mainly. New curses like Curse of Vitality allow you to curse yourself so even if your deck is not combat oriented you benefit from others attacking you.
6) Tribal - Vampires are good at life manipulation and creature removal.
7) Token - Like the way Queen Marchesa, for defense, offense, and sac outlet like Sadistic Hypnotist if discard is preferred.
Note all punish strategies would reduce the benefit of Mathas’s political power, but most people would still prefer killing a creature to get a card (because draw = answer), life gain is usually gravy. Armageddon when everyone has a full hand while having damage/life enchantments out would lock the game down for you to win.
To get the above ideas working:
1) Mana rocks, lots of it.
2) Defense and removal.
3) Protection for Mathas and key creatures.
Now, as always, I will make a list for Mathas as we congregate ideas in this thread. Please help me upgrade the universe. For starter I will put the ones I mentioned up there. I will skip the usual staples (such as Swords to Plowshares and Return to Dust) because they don’t add to the strategy as much.
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Armageddon
1 Blood Moon
1 Burning Sands
1 Chromatic Lantern
Life to Death
1 Defiant Bloodlord
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Exquisite Blood
1 Havoc Festival
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Karlov of the Ghost Council
1 Moonlit Wake
1 Sanguine Bond
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Tainted Remedy
1 Vizkopa Guildmage
Hand Damage
1 Ebony Owl Netsuke
1 Molten Psyche
1 Oppression
1 Storm World
1 Vicious Shadows
Discard
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
Defense
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Kulrath Knight
1 Norn's Annex
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Bitter Feud
1 Curse of Opulance
1 Curse of Vitality
1 Disrupt Decorum
1 Lightmine Field
1 Orzhov Advokist
1 Queen Marchesa
No Targets?
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Curse of Disturbance
Removal
1 Bounty Hunter
1 Hunter of Eyeblights
1 Massacre Wurm, Moonlight Wake
1 Spreading Plague
1 Tainted Aether
Death Trigger
1 Martyr's Bond
1 Grave Pact
1 Shriveling Rot
1 Toshiro Umezawa
-1/-1
1 Midnight Banshee
1 The Scorpion God
Vampires
1 Anowon, the Ruin Sage
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
Curses
1 Accursed Witch
1 Bitterheart Witch
1 Cruel Reality
1 Curse of Bloodletting
1 Curse of Chaos
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Curse of Exhaustion
1 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Curse of Oblivion
1 Curse of Shallow Graves
1 Curse of Stalked Prey
1 Curse of the Forsaken
1 Curse of the Nightly Hunt
1 Curse of Thirst
1 Curse of Vengeance
1 Overwhelming Splendor
1 Torment of Scarabs
1 Tresspasser's Curse
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
1 Mogis, God of Slaughter
1 Sangromancer
1 Strionic Resonator
Let's Brew!
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I think cards like Aether Flash and NoSB are good at killing creatures when they enter, but those creatures won't have the Bounty counter on them to max the benefit. I think Spreading Plague would be ideal. If we want them to die immediately, then something like Blood Artist would definitely be included.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
One of the main ways of getting creatures to die is through combat, so I think running stuff like Lightmine Field is counterproductive (Even though I love the combo with Disrupt Decorum) as would stuff that punishes creatures from dying in general.
I think the best way to go about this is to focus on opponent's killing each other's creatures and then use reanimation stuff that lets you reanimate creatures from opponent's graveyard.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
.Vicious Shadows incentifies and takes advantage of the draw they get off of cashing in our bounties
. Blade of the Bloodchief might just make our Mathas or something like Yahenni,Undying Partisan into lethal if we can protect them long enough.
.Toshiro Umezawa can help us flashback some of our removal to hopefully cash in another bounty.
.Wall of Limbs, Vizkopa Guildmage, Karlov of the Ghost Council, Defiant Bloodlord can take advantage of our bounty lifegains.
. I like the idea of Sangromancer, Massacre Wurm, Moonlight Wake, etc getting our life total to just a massive degree and then dropping something like Shrivelling Rot + a boardwipe to just take people out after all the infighting.
I would just make sure you pack a Strionic Resonator to copy the bounty counter distribution trigger.
Mardu Curses. Not only are you planting bounties on creatures, you're essentially placing bounties/punishments on players.
and of course the new ones
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Yes, I mentioned in my OP that more punishment you dish out, the less political power there is, but it is still an option since you don't lack creature removal of your own. I find a lot of political decks ended up manipulate for manipulate's sake without its own control when needed.
This thread is also more about brainstorming for possibilities of the general's infancy, gathering "options" for people to decided what they want to do. It might end up beyond the original ideas, too. :3
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Sorry, on my mobile, so I don't know how to link the card.
B Dark Ides Life DrainR Rekindle Skies Phoenix TribalWB Veil Oath Tokens
BR Brutal Scourge Eldrazi TribalRW Edge Worthy Mid-Range AggroGU Wisp Away Combo
GWU Vigorous Flow Energy
Commander / EDH:
RFeldon of the Third Path
GURashmi, Eternities Crafter
RWBMathas, Fiend Hunter
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice
Without the right support, in the right meta, in just the right scenarios, he does nothing. Just a 3/3 Menace.
With minimal changes to the deck you've proposed for Mathas, it may be better suited to Licia, Sanguine Tribune. Or Zurgo, Helmsmasher. Or Vial Smasher the Fierce and Tymna the Weaver.
Mardu gives you access to a ton of curses and most importantly black curses. White also gives you enchantment recursion. There are many curses that incentivise opponents beat each other and especially the new curses from C17 also give you the benefit whenever an opponent attacks the cursed player.
curses
support cards
Now on to the actual topic: I think Mathas is better politically than Marchesa. All she actually does is introduce the Monarch mechanic which encourages people to attack whoever has the crown. Mathas on the other hand lets you take a poll for the bounty counter. I think he would want Winter Orb, and Howling Mine and other old artifacts that are turned off if they are tapped, along with ways to tap and untap them so not only can you get the benefits or negate the negatives but bribe people with the same.
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG