I recently acquired an Eternal Masters Wasteland Which has replaced one of the proxies. This has made me feel a lot more comfortable playing the proxies as I could now switch it out if I was entering a tournament or if someone had an issue with it.
The other two have not been replaced, mainly due to cost, but because my playgroup don't really have a problem with just running two.
The reason i have brought this up is that a couple of weeks ago, a player showed up to my LGS with a VERY badly proxied Atraxa deck.
The proxies were in black and white an about half the size of the land card in the sleeve.
He was running all 10 fetch lands and all the ABUR duals etc. Basically a $5000+ deck which he had made for less than a cup of coffee.
While I feel that proxies should not be an issue for casual play. I do feel that some effort should be made if you are gonna proxy a card.
So my question is: What are this communities feelings on proxies? Do you use them? Are you ok with other players in your group using them?
I think proxies are okay within your well-established playgroup. I would never bring a trial deck out in a new setting.
I'm okay with using a few to test out new cards (from a new set) or if you only have one copy of staples--no one wants you to unsleeve every game. I use gold-bordered cards (Scroll Rack, E.Tutor) for this reason. I have the real cards; they are just in another deck.
Proxying a top manabase is crazy. Tundra? Use Prairie Stream!
I have a few proxies.
They are for cheap cards I want to try out or want to trade for the deck.
What I don't like are people that use proxies as an alternative for trading or buying expensive cards with zero intention of getting them for real.
I've played, bought and traded for 15+ years to get to this meager collection. When someone else proxies every dual or fetchland that really sucks.
I don't like to use proxies myself, even as a budgeted player. To me part of the fun is to find those budget alternatives and make them work in some way, but then again I don't play EDH at a competitive level. If I don't have a card then its not going to be represented in a deck either, it might seem tempting with some cards that are just too expensive but I'd be mostly fooling myself.
An argument can be made for play testing a potential new card, as shelling out a lot for a card that doesn't end up doing it for you can obviously be a pain in the wallet. So at the most I tend to use 'mental proxies', I make note of cards I would add and which cards I would cut for them. Then during games whenever I draw a potential cut I consider what drawing the new card would do at that given moment. Sure, its not going to reflect the long lasting impact of a card in a game, but does let me decide which of the two I'd rather be drawing. Keeping track of that lets me determine whether its worth the investment or not.
Our playgroup on the other hand does tolerate up to three proxied cards in a deck and a card can only be proxied for one game night, just for testing purposes. That's only when we play at someone's house, at our LGS we don't allow proxies to be used at all. Less confusion at tournaments and more clear for when someone from outside the group joins for a game.
As far as quality of a proxy goes, our group prefers to use black and white prints. That way its plain and obvious when someone is playing a proxied card. Though an altered art card isn't considered a proxy in my opinion, but depending on the alter having an original on hand might be wise anyways.
I'm 100% in favor of proxying everything regardless of whether you have a copy, but I don't have any way to make proxies I like aesthetically at the moment.
I'm ok with proxies as long as they're improvements on the previous card (such as replacing a card's boring art with something interesting). You have to put at least some work into making proxies that look better than the original, so I respect that and let people play with them.
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Your new prescription eyeglasses don’t work. You still can’t see things my way.
My playgroup allows proxies for the purpose of saving ourselves the trouble of having to buy multiple copies of high priced staples, and even then we exist on a spectrum; one player will proxy basic lands out of sheer laziness, another proxies everything but basics to keep his cards tucked away in his binder, I myself try not to use too many proxies per deck as I like using the actual cards, but can't justify additional copies of fetchlands and the like.
With regards to quality, we have access to a high end printer through one players profession, so we use full color high resolution paper proxies over basic lands.
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EDH Pantheon UBRG Yidris, Eye of the Storm WBR Kaalia, Herald of Apocalypse UBG Damia, Sage of Nightmare WBG Karador, the Bridge Between WU Grand Warden Augustin IV RG Omnath, Locus of Awakening BG Nath Addict UR Niv Mizzet, Brain Aflame B Kokusho, the Mourning Star U Memnarch is All
I personally don't give a hoot about proxies. I don't use them because I'm too lazy to do good proxies. But it doesn't bother me that other people do. It can be annoying when someone just scribbles the name of the card on a piece of paper and slips that in the sleeve over a face down basic, but I don't mind that much.
Also, this topic gets brought up every few months. I think it's a pretty good conversation to have, but I'm not sure how you searched that you didn't find all of the old threads about this.
I hate proxies in my decks, and never use them. For that reason, I have multiples of many expensive cards. Aesthetically, I dislike having "fakes" in my decks. I know I should use them to cut down on budget, but it is what it is.
I don't usually care when other people use proxies. I just hate it when people use proxies for cards they neither own nor intend to buy. Gaea's Cradle is one that has angered me in the past. We all have budgets, sometimes self-imposed, and to play people who neglect budget is annoying.
-- don't mind them at all.
-- don't want them at all because you feel that because you bought your cards other people should too.
-- absolutely not! No one is entitled to expensive Magic cards. Play within your budget or find alternate cards that do a similar thing.
-- don't mind them in small doses, as long as they don't make up the entirety of your deck, aren't bad B&W copies, aren't just basic lands written over with a Sharpie, etc. Put some effort in!
-- it's okay if you have at least one real copy of the card and you have multiple decks and don't want to move them back and forth.
-- it's okay as long as you're only playtesting it, and you want to see if the card works before spending the money on the real thing. But if it works, you better go buy the real thing!
About cover it? These 6 points probably make up about 95% of the arguments that are pro, con, or conditional about proxies. Anything else I didn't mention probably deals with card-specific or deck-specific reasons that no one cares about (your Cradle is gold-bordered? Awesome!/terrible!)
EDIT: What's hilarious is that I wrote the above 6 bulleted points before reading the responses in this thread. Then I went back and read them, and it was literally the bulleted responses, thus proving my point there is nothing to add to this topic not previously debated by dozens of other people going back nearly a decade.
Every time this topic comes up, God kills a kitten.
proxies are for 3 reasons only
-Card is not yet out and/or you are testing it (Like I did with Nin, the Pain Artist (day it was spoiled, i had the test deck that evening)
-Card is really expensive but you are saving up to buy it
-Card is in a different deck
Aside form those reasons you should not proxy. I own all 10 ABURs. I don't run any in any deck, they stay in my binder and i proxy the card. (granted I am paranoid as I had a $300.00 deck stolen from me, not about to put a $350.00 card into a deck that i might not be looking at for a minute and have some guy who has noticed this expensive card and grab it when no one is looking and leave the store before anyone realizes it is gone.)
I really don't care about people playing with proxies or not in EDH. Theres no money on the line, theres no professional goals on the line. Its just a bunch of people having fun in a game.
90% of my store is 16 year olds. I'm not going to freak out that they can't afford the same stuff as me, because when I bought my ABRU duels they were 7 bucks each. Some people would, I'm sure... even I would... at a legit tournament, which this isn't.
What I do care about is effort. Ive seen some people use their phone instead of have cards. Thats a no. I've seen basics with sharpie, also a no. Black and white print outs in a sleeve, getting better. Colored? Sure. Completely cool new art work, colored and pimped? Hell yeah, thats style.
Its about readability. If you arent making me do the work in knowing what a card does, then answer is yes. And really, that shouldnt be too hard. Anyone with photoshop and a printer can do it. Hell, theres even a growing market for "Proxies."
Stuff
Every time this topic comes up, God kills a kitten.
Who cares? People like to talk. Some people are new here. Some people want to talk about it twice. If you don't want to read this topic, don't read it. No one is forcing you to.
People will say the same bullet points you said because people want to say it. A post like that wont stop them.
Then act like a moderator and merge the threads, like moderators do all the time. I demonstrated this is at least the 9th thread that talks about this.
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(Airithne):
Infraction for flaming.
1) The card is expensive and I own a copy but want to use it more than one place. Anyone who may have issues with proxies in this case I can take the time to swap what deck it is in between games but I just shortcut the process and proxy it. Usually this price point is greater than $50.00.
2) Making a new deck and perhaps I dont own enough copies of cards or I dont own some niche stuff. In most cases proxies here are temporary.
3) The card is yet to come out or just came out and being over hyped price wise due to standard. Sometimes I will avoid niche stuff due to this or leave it proxied for a time until prices settle.
My long term proxies tend to be the expensive cards. Given that a playset for commander is owning a copy as thats all you can play with at a time I just try to have a copy of anything that I am proxying. Considering I can always play with at least a deck at a time I am fine with this. Given that I own expensive cards like Tabernacle, Moat, Bazaar I appreciate it when others at least have a copy to play things of this caliber of pricetag. Ultimately I do hate the look and feel of Proxies so yes I do own 3 Mana Crypt but at the same time I cant justify buying a second + set of ABU lands lol.
Everyone in my group uses proxies in at least a couple of their decks. Sometimes it's so they can test a card before spending the money, or because they want the card in multiple decks but only have so many copies. More expensive cards are usually being proxied because the real copies are in one of our cubes.
Since we're a small and regular group nobody has much of an issue with proxies, although we do ask that they be in color and printed nicely enough that everyone can read them from a distance.
I wouldn't expect pick-up games at a store to be as welcoming as we are so if I was going to go to an environment like that I'd be sure to have at least 1 deck without any proxies.
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EDH playing competitive Magic cast away
Current Decks GTitania midrange RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
I have 28 EDH decks and there is no way in hell I am buying staples especially land bases for each one. I keep all cards I run in multiple decks in a binder in perfect fits and will simple switch a card in for a stand by proxy in the deck. I also have some Collector's Ed cards I will use as well as gold bordered cards that I will use in decks. I see no issue in proxies if you own the card if it is produced by Wizards.
Personally I like to have the card, using proxies make me feel dirty. It's a CCG, you're suppose to play the with the cards you have. However, I don't mind if someone is using a few proxies, there's usually a reason for it. If half the deck is proxied then you probably should play a different deck though. I have one proxy and I printed on a card with a laser printer, in a sleeve it looks almost as good as the original. It's a Gilded Lotus, I should probably pick one up but for some reason I'm kind of attached to this one proxy.
Stuff
Every time this topic comes up, God kills a kitten.
Who cares? People like to talk. Some people are new here. Some people want to talk about it twice. If you don't want to read this topic, don't read it. No one is forcing you to.
People will say the same bullet points you said because people want to say it. A post like that wont stop them.
Then why not have a sticked thread in the commander section? As then people have an immediate thing to look at that lets them see past comments about their question that has obviously been answered numerous times throughout the years by others?
One of my playgroups allows proxies if you own the card and occasionally if you don't. My other playgroup voted to completely use proxies if desired. Granted no one has a complete deck of white cards with the names of cards written on them (proxies are normally purchased from China or printed on paper locally and attached to basic lands). I originally had a problem with proxies (I think this was likely because I felt proxies diminished my investment in my purchased cards), but now I have zero problem with proxies (even though I have a few decks with all real cards (a couple are over a thousand dollars) and I still buy more occasionally). Some of the reasons I am completely ok with proxies are:
Prices for non-special versions of cards are stupid. I support special versions of cards (e.g. judge foils, foils, masterpieces, etc.) being any price, but there should be at least one non-special version of a card available for under $20 or so.
I believe everybody should reasonably be able to play the strategies they want without seriously hindering their finances.
Proxies allow for a shifting and fluid meta since cost does not hinder deck building or ability to alter one's deck.
My favourite cards and strategies are old. Due to the reserve list, wizard's dismal reprint policy and plans, and wizard's aversion to supporting strategies I enjoy (e.g heavy countermagic) it makes playing what I like cost prohibitive. It seems grossly unfair that I would be forced to pay insane amounts of money to play what I like when I only found MtG a few years ago (I never had an opportunity to purchase the cards I like at reasonable prices (and based on current reprint policies, reserve list, etc. it looks like I never will have said opportunity)).
MtG is an amazing game and it seems grossly unfair for some of the game to be reserved for the rich.
The game is better with a level playing field. When money buys wins the game is no longer a strategy game.
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Modern:UB Taking Turns Modern:URW Madcap Experiment Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
Stuff
Every time this topic comes up, God kills a kitten.
Who cares? People like to talk. Some people are new here. Some people want to talk about it twice. If you don't want to read this topic, don't read it. No one is forcing you to.
People will say the same bullet points you said because people want to say it. A post like that wont stop them.
Then why not have a sticked thread in the commander section? As then people have an immediate thing to look at that lets them see past comments about their question that has obviously been answered numerous times throughout the years by others?
Please note that Lantern is not a moderator for this section. Concerns should be brought up to one of the EDH mods, privately or preferably in a section such as the Helpdesk. I would be more than happy to continue this topic there, but I will say that if we were to sticky a thread that listed every popular argument for common debates in EDH, you wouldn't be able to seen new posts on the first page. It will also not negate threads like these from being created, because people enjoy posting their own opinions, even if they've been posted before.
Please keep further discussion in this thread on topic.
I use proxies because I really fail to see how they cause any harm. As long as proxies are high quality colored scans and not just lazily scrawled slips of paper, what's wrong with them? There's a myriad of excellent reasons why a person might proxy a card, and there isn't any sense in denying a person a game because of it. Mostly though, I don't give a **** about the collectivity of the game and think that anyone who does is petty. What ultimately matters in a game of Commander is whether or not everyone sitting down at the table is having a good time. Proxies don't change that unless they're of such poor quality that they detract from the aesthetics of the game. In all other instances, there isn't anything wrong with proxies, and they shouldn't influence how much fun everyone is having.
I think just like pretty much everything else in commander as long as you don't abuse it it is fine.I am fine with people using the gold boarded cards basically high quality proxy. There is even someone that used to use full art foil shocklands(long before expeditions) proxies because they looked great. There are also people with full proxy decks they are testing or trying out. I guess that is fine but I would get tired of it if they were "testing" for years, you really have to be honest in your goal of completing the deck. But for one or two hard to get cards its okay.
I typically only proxy between my Commander and Standard/modern decks rather than between decks because I'd prefer to just use something else if I don't have it. For example I got an oblivion stone for my glissa, the traitor deck for $3.5, years ago... but now I need that for my tron deck and I don't want to buy more at the current price. But I have the card and I often carry those decks together. I used to proxy wurmcoils and fetches as well but I got more of those.
I have a reason to proxy that wasn't on the list: custom cards. I played against someone with a deck full of them once, it was different. Custom cards can be great in variants.
I don't mind people who scribble "Force of Will" on an island as much as if they only write something like "HoR" on a forest and tell me it is for "Hour of Reckoning". As a brand new card, maybe I know it, maybe not, but would I guess it from that? No.
It isn't just the scribble-land proxies that I don't like, I have snubbed my nose at many beautiful altered art cards because they have covered up too much of the text, costs, or omitted such information entirely. I'm all for full art lands since they still have the symbol, but I don't even like official cards like the Full Art Damnation. My opponents might not know what that card does and might not have an app on their phone like I do to see if I'm telling them the truth or getting the wording right.
I feel like full art no land cards (proxy or not) don't really have a place other than within a circle of friends or display.
I "proxy" for one reason only: if I think I can draw better art (subjective and biased, of course) for the thing myself. Also pretty much only the commanders, given that each proxy takes 10-ish hours to make up to my own impossible standards for my own art. Aaand only if I am pretty darn sure I won't go swapping the commander right afterwards, and own the card anyway. If the commander is any degree more obscure or older, I tend to keep the original in the same sleeve just in case someone doubts my proxy.
I admit I will slightly frown if I see a "quick and dirty" proxy, especially if it's of a really expensive card. But that's mostly on my own philosophy that you don't need any singular card for an EDH deck - and I will play with you anyway.
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
I don't use them as a personal rule. But I don't mind them if the other person uses them when he owns the card, though, with a card for each proxy of the same type in a given deck (four proxies of Blightsteel = four owned copies somewhere else.). In this format, that would mean if he owned the staple somewhere then I'm OK with it as long as it's not abused.
Disclaimer: Non-edh story to highlight why I believe above. One time I went to a guy's personal store I knew from the LGS at a different location. He invited me there for a proxy-allowed tournament. So I went with one of my iterations on a Kobold tribal, of all things, but I owned every card. Shared Animosity is fun with Kobolds! It was decently fast, and won two matches in a round robin tournament, and the other players enjoyed the Kobold build. Saw a few proxies, expected that, so no big deal, right? Then ran into a kid probably 16 yrs old with a fully-Vintage proxy deck (power 9) and other things making the deck probably $10-20k if the real cards were used. He didn't own a single card and had the chutzpah to lock me out of the game with a re-usable mindslaver such that I would never get another turn. And I'm playing Kobolds?!. The owner shrugged it off when I protested because it was his intent to help more people get into vintage of all things by learning to play with these high dollar investments that they would never own, an intended result he didn't really disclose when he solicited the tournament; he merely said proxies could be used. Kinda shady. So, anyway, I was so pissed, I resigned without playing game 2 and walked out never to return mid-tournament. I hope I ruined his round robin tournament, too. It's the only tournament I've ever walked out on. Proxies can definitely be abused, fwiw.
Personally i am ok with proxies, but within reason. I use a total of 7 proxies in my decks.
4 for commanders, but i do own the official cards. These are just for show and to make my decks stand out as they are custom artwork foils.
3 are "official" cards, but are from a '99 championship deck(Gold Bordered). These are Wasteland, Yawgmoth's Will and Vampiric Tutor.
I recently acquired an Eternal Masters Wasteland Which has replaced one of the proxies. This has made me feel a lot more comfortable playing the proxies as I could now switch it out if I was entering a tournament or if someone had an issue with it.
The other two have not been replaced, mainly due to cost, but because my playgroup don't really have a problem with just running two.
The reason i have brought this up is that a couple of weeks ago, a player showed up to my LGS with a VERY badly proxied Atraxa deck.
The proxies were in black and white an about half the size of the land card in the sleeve.
He was running all 10 fetch lands and all the ABUR duals etc. Basically a $5000+ deck which he had made for less than a cup of coffee.
While I feel that proxies should not be an issue for casual play. I do feel that some effort should be made if you are gonna proxy a card.
So my question is: What are this communities feelings on proxies? Do you use them? Are you ok with other players in your group using them?
UBRJeleva, Nephalias Scourge: ...and the storm arrivedRBU
BGHapatra, Vizier of PoisonsGB
WAvacyn, Angel of Hope: Avy, Baby!W
I'm okay with using a few to test out new cards (from a new set) or if you only have one copy of staples--no one wants you to unsleeve every game. I use gold-bordered cards (Scroll Rack, E.Tutor) for this reason. I have the real cards; they are just in another deck.
Proxying a top manabase is crazy. Tundra? Use Prairie Stream!
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
They are for cheap cards I want to try out or want to trade for the deck.
What I don't like are people that use proxies as an alternative for trading or buying expensive cards with zero intention of getting them for real.
I've played, bought and traded for 15+ years to get to this meager collection. When someone else proxies every dual or fetchland that really sucks.
An argument can be made for play testing a potential new card, as shelling out a lot for a card that doesn't end up doing it for you can obviously be a pain in the wallet. So at the most I tend to use 'mental proxies', I make note of cards I would add and which cards I would cut for them. Then during games whenever I draw a potential cut I consider what drawing the new card would do at that given moment. Sure, its not going to reflect the long lasting impact of a card in a game, but does let me decide which of the two I'd rather be drawing. Keeping track of that lets me determine whether its worth the investment or not.
Our playgroup on the other hand does tolerate up to three proxied cards in a deck and a card can only be proxied for one game night, just for testing purposes. That's only when we play at someone's house, at our LGS we don't allow proxies to be used at all. Less confusion at tournaments and more clear for when someone from outside the group joins for a game.
As far as quality of a proxy goes, our group prefers to use black and white prints. That way its plain and obvious when someone is playing a proxied card. Though an altered art card isn't considered a proxy in my opinion, but depending on the alter having an original on hand might be wise anyways.
Jeweled Bird = Sensei's Divining Top
Demonic Attorney = Demonic Tutor
Contract from Below = Vampiric Tutor
Prophet of Kruphix = Seedborn Muse
Mana Screw = Mana Crypt
I'm 100% in favor of proxying everything regardless of whether you have a copy, but I don't have any way to make proxies I like aesthetically at the moment.
With regards to quality, we have access to a high end printer through one players profession, so we use full color high resolution paper proxies over basic lands.
UBRG Yidris, Eye of the Storm
WBR Kaalia, Herald of Apocalypse
UBG Damia, Sage of Nightmare
WBG Karador, the Bridge Between
WU Grand Warden Augustin IV
RG Omnath, Locus of Awakening
BG Nath Addict
UR Niv Mizzet, Brain Aflame
B Kokusho, the Mourning Star
U Memnarch is All
Also, this topic gets brought up every few months. I think it's a pretty good conversation to have, but I'm not sure how you searched that you didn't find all of the old threads about this.
Modern
I don't usually care when other people use proxies. I just hate it when people use proxies for cards they neither own nor intend to buy. Gaea's Cradle is one that has angered me in the past. We all have budgets, sometimes self-imposed, and to play people who neglect budget is annoying.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
"Proxies or fakes in EDH" http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/535873-proxies-or-fakes-and-edh
"Proxies?" http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/489827-proxies
"Proxies, what to do about them?" http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/200919-proxies-what-to-do-about-them
"Your view on Proxies" http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/196927-your-view-on-proxies
"Why not use proxies in EDH" http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/195375-why-not-use-proxies-in-edh
"Proxies in EDH?" http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/194779-proxies-in-edh
"Proxies" http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/203923-proxies
"Proxies" http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/630467-proxies
PLEASE PEOPLE, for the love of Magic, DON'T dredge up and contribute to this so very tired topic. You will add nothing to the HUNDREDS of posts already on the topic.
You either:
-- don't mind them at all.
-- don't want them at all because you feel that because you bought your cards other people should too.
-- absolutely not! No one is entitled to expensive Magic cards. Play within your budget or find alternate cards that do a similar thing.
-- don't mind them in small doses, as long as they don't make up the entirety of your deck, aren't bad B&W copies, aren't just basic lands written over with a Sharpie, etc. Put some effort in!
-- it's okay if you have at least one real copy of the card and you have multiple decks and don't want to move them back and forth.
-- it's okay as long as you're only playtesting it, and you want to see if the card works before spending the money on the real thing. But if it works, you better go buy the real thing!
About cover it? These 6 points probably make up about 95% of the arguments that are pro, con, or conditional about proxies. Anything else I didn't mention probably deals with card-specific or deck-specific reasons that no one cares about (your Cradle is gold-bordered? Awesome!/terrible!)
EDIT: What's hilarious is that I wrote the above 6 bulleted points before reading the responses in this thread. Then I went back and read them, and it was literally the bulleted responses, thus proving my point there is nothing to add to this topic not previously debated by dozens of other people going back nearly a decade.
Every time this topic comes up, God kills a kitten.
-Card is not yet out and/or you are testing it (Like I did with Nin, the Pain Artist (day it was spoiled, i had the test deck that evening)
-Card is really expensive but you are saving up to buy it
-Card is in a different deck
Aside form those reasons you should not proxy. I own all 10 ABURs. I don't run any in any deck, they stay in my binder and i proxy the card. (granted I am paranoid as I had a $300.00 deck stolen from me, not about to put a $350.00 card into a deck that i might not be looking at for a minute and have some guy who has noticed this expensive card and grab it when no one is looking and leave the store before anyone realizes it is gone.)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I really don't care about people playing with proxies or not in EDH. Theres no money on the line, theres no professional goals on the line. Its just a bunch of people having fun in a game.
90% of my store is 16 year olds. I'm not going to freak out that they can't afford the same stuff as me, because when I bought my ABRU duels they were 7 bucks each. Some people would, I'm sure... even I would... at a legit tournament, which this isn't.
What I do care about is effort. Ive seen some people use their phone instead of have cards. Thats a no. I've seen basics with sharpie, also a no. Black and white print outs in a sleeve, getting better. Colored? Sure. Completely cool new art work, colored and pimped? Hell yeah, thats style.
Its about readability. If you arent making me do the work in knowing what a card does, then answer is yes. And really, that shouldnt be too hard. Anyone with photoshop and a printer can do it. Hell, theres even a growing market for "Proxies."
Who cares? People like to talk. Some people are new here. Some people want to talk about it twice. If you don't want to read this topic, don't read it. No one is forcing you to.
People will say the same bullet points you said because people want to say it. A post like that wont stop them.
1) The card is expensive and I own a copy but want to use it more than one place. Anyone who may have issues with proxies in this case I can take the time to swap what deck it is in between games but I just shortcut the process and proxy it. Usually this price point is greater than $50.00.
2) Making a new deck and perhaps I dont own enough copies of cards or I dont own some niche stuff. In most cases proxies here are temporary.
3) The card is yet to come out or just came out and being over hyped price wise due to standard. Sometimes I will avoid niche stuff due to this or leave it proxied for a time until prices settle.
My long term proxies tend to be the expensive cards. Given that a playset for commander is owning a copy as thats all you can play with at a time I just try to have a copy of anything that I am proxying. Considering I can always play with at least a deck at a time I am fine with this. Given that I own expensive cards like Tabernacle, Moat, Bazaar I appreciate it when others at least have a copy to play things of this caliber of pricetag. Ultimately I do hate the look and feel of Proxies so yes I do own 3 Mana Crypt but at the same time I cant justify buying a second + set of ABU lands lol.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Since we're a small and regular group nobody has much of an issue with proxies, although we do ask that they be in color and printed nicely enough that everyone can read them from a distance.
I wouldn't expect pick-up games at a store to be as welcoming as we are so if I was going to go to an environment like that I'd be sure to have at least 1 deck without any proxies.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
Please keep further discussion in this thread on topic.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
EDIT: Grammar
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
I typically only proxy between my Commander and Standard/modern decks rather than between decks because I'd prefer to just use something else if I don't have it. For example I got an oblivion stone for my glissa, the traitor deck for $3.5, years ago... but now I need that for my tron deck and I don't want to buy more at the current price. But I have the card and I often carry those decks together. I used to proxy wurmcoils and fetches as well but I got more of those.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I don't mind people who scribble "Force of Will" on an island as much as if they only write something like "HoR" on a forest and tell me it is for "Hour of Reckoning". As a brand new card, maybe I know it, maybe not, but would I guess it from that? No.
It isn't just the scribble-land proxies that I don't like, I have snubbed my nose at many beautiful altered art cards because they have covered up too much of the text, costs, or omitted such information entirely. I'm all for full art lands since they still have the symbol, but I don't even like official cards like the Full Art Damnation. My opponents might not know what that card does and might not have an app on their phone like I do to see if I'm telling them the truth or getting the wording right.
I feel like full art no land cards (proxy or not) don't really have a place other than within a circle of friends or display.
I admit I will slightly frown if I see a "quick and dirty" proxy, especially if it's of a really expensive card. But that's mostly on my own philosophy that you don't need any singular card for an EDH deck - and I will play with you anyway.
Disclaimer: Non-edh story to highlight why I believe above. One time I went to a guy's personal store I knew from the LGS at a different location. He invited me there for a proxy-allowed tournament. So I went with one of my iterations on a Kobold tribal, of all things,