I don't think you need both the Orrery and the Cauldron? It seems like one extra land drop will do.
You cast heat shimmer and bring Tarox back to hand. You discard him (Tarox in play is power 8) to the command zone. You sac Command Beacon, bringing Tarox back to hand. You discard him (Tarox in play is power 16). You play Command Beacon from the grave for your standard land drop. You crack it and get Tarox back. You discard him (Tarox in play is power 32). You play Command Beacon from the grave with an extra land drop. You crack it and get Tarox to your hand. You discard him (Tarox in play is power 64).
EDIT: Nevermind. I realized that my first step was wrong. Heat shimmer puts Tarox in the command zone not in hand.
Also, for the refuters out there, this combo requires 8 mana (3 for heat shimmer, 3 for rupture, and 2 to activate bone mask). So you're looking for a replacement (playable in a Tarox deck) that you could use in place of Command Beacon here with CMC 8 or less (your mana budget decreases of course if you also want to cast heat shimmer or rupture and/or activate the bone wand).
Actually, one could use blade of selves instead of heat shimmer. This uses less mana. Otherwise it would be partly refuted by dualcaster mage (but not quite since the heat shimmer one uses ome less red mana).
One needs to get a copy another way than heat shimmer because of dualcaster mage
blade of selves Doesnt work because the tokens get exiled at end of combat. I guess Minion Reflector does fine (but requires quite a bit of mana). Mimic Vat does work too but one needs to have a creature that can sac itself (to remove Torax from the vat) or have made a token end of the last oppeonts turn and then make a second one (and then exile the token that dies to the legend rule to the vat).
You play heat shimmer in respons you play mage and copy heat shimmer targeting mage, which give you a new mage which you use to copy heat shimmer targeting mage and so on.
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
I dunno that it's a refutation in any kind of way, but note that one can do the same combo for the same CMC but with fewer pieces/resources consumed through Chandra's Ignition. It can replace Rupture and removes the need for Bone Mask.
I tap Saffi, Kamahl, the Hierophants, and the Pilgrim for GGGW.
I spend G to make Command Beacon a creature using Kamahl's first ability. I sacrifice Saffi targeting the Beacon and putting her in the command zone. I sacrifice the Beacon, putting Saffi in my hand and the Beacon back in play. I spend GW to recast Saffi, untapping everything thanks to Intruder Alarm Paradox Engine. I'm now back where I started except that I have netted G. I repeat until I have a million green mana and then trample everyone to death with Kamahl's second ability.
Then I remembered (after an embarassingly long pause) that you can't have Intruder Alarm in a Saffi deck. And every alternative I came up with kept accidentally making infinite mana without needing Command Beacon at all....
EDIT: Paradox Engine. There it is. Paradox Engine instead of Intruder Alarm and my combo works.
As far as I can see none of those combos you suggest answers the question actually, because there are many return to hand creatures that can replace command beacon e.g. Kor Skyfisher, Whitemane Lion and Stonecloaker- funnily enough those cards refutes all three at once.
I would like to see Humility used in a combo, but I suspect it might be tricky and if none answers it in say 24h I will try to think of another.
EDIT: I think I found one, so it should be possible
I don't think this really counts as "combo" though, it's just a weird boardstate where I think only Humility can win for you. You're only playing Abyssal Persecutor and Lethal Vapors in order to make it harder to win with other cards.
I'm posting this for the purpose of discussion/inspiration, not as an actual proposed solution.
I'll try to come up with a combo that works, but this one's hard...
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"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Yeah, we all know that Humility is a very strong card that can help you lock down the board. What we're looking for is a way to "go off" with the card. A combo-player's combo if you will. This is part of why I don't like my solution either.
Oh and I love the Titania combo with Command Beacon, very clean. I don't think I understand the Haakon combo. Don't you also need a discard outlet?
Whoops left my tab open, didn't see that locks didn't count. nvm.
And the Haakon combo (again, not mine): The Changeling gets the Sliver ability to sac itself, and Haakon lets you play Knights (read: Changelings) from grave. So you can infinitely loop those two; sac for BB, play from grave for 1B, eventually cast grapeshot. However, only Beacon (to my knowledge) lets you get Haakon out of the command zone, so it'd be the only option to allow the combo.
EDIT: Also meant Intangible Virtue, not Gaea's Anthem (not that it matters). That way my own refutation wouldn't have worked.
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
And the Haakon combo (again, not mine): The Changeling gets the Sliver ability to sac itself, and Haakon lets you play Knights (read: Changelings) from grave. So you can infinitely loop those two; sac for BB, play from grave for 1B, eventually cast grapeshot. However, only Beacon (to my knowledge) lets you get Haakon out of the command zone, so it'd be the only option to allow the combo.
Right, I get that, but once you have Haakon in your hand, you still can't cast him. So you need to add a card that can get him to the graveyard from your hand.
Epic Struggle, Abyssal Persecutor, 19 Saproling tokens, and Lethal Vapors in play. Final Fortune and Humility in Hand. Ulamog, the Infinite Gire or Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger can both replace Humility by being immune to Lethal Vapors and destroying Abyssal Persecutor.
i don't think this counts as a disproving, since the eldrazi cost a good deal more than humility... still by 256K's own admission this is not really a combo so much as a lets-me-win situation, so I don't know if it counts in the first place.
though to be honest i can't think of any situation where i'd play humility to win except if i had an already undesirable board state where one of my own creatures was stopping from winning with its ability. i mean, that's what the card does, it removes abilities from your creatures...
I don't think a lock counts, does it? Regardless, I think Godhead of Awe refutes it.
Godhead doesn't refute Humility, since Godhead doesn't remove abilities (there are a lot of uses for Humility that care more about that than the 1/1 aspect).
A better refutation, I think, is Humble, since it's designed to be a one-turn Humility.
Play Island (gives U), Emrakul (is free because of the eyes and the cards in gy - gives U with earthcraft), buyback capsize (cost UU because of the cost reductions) on Emrakul and you get a token from Metallurgic Summonings allowing you to untap the Island and you are back to start. You can do this on your oppents turn (the part after playing island) because of Leyline of Anticipation
Win con: mill people by controlling them for N+1 turns where N is the number of cards in library)
Edit: Missed the need for doing it on your oppeonts turn since turn control overwrites and do not stack.
make infinite mana, cycle a land, shoot someone for two damage, cast life from the loam, get back the land, cycle the other land, dredge life from the loam, rinse and repeat.
i'd be surprised if anything can replace lightning rift here since it costs so little and is so narrowly focused on cycling.
make infinite mana, cycle a land, shoot someone for two damage, cast life from the loam, get back the land, cycle the other land, dredge life from the loam, rinse and repeat.
i'd be surprised if anything can replace lightning rift here since it costs so little and is so narrowly focused on cycling.
in play: fastbond, urza's armor, crucible of worlds and petrified field. play seismic assault, pitch a land, sac the field to get the land, play the field from the yard, and keep going? though any free discard outlet that turns cards into damage could replace the assault, i just can't think of any right now...
EDIT: land's edge and lightning storm can both replace seismic assault here, nevermind. would be tough to find a unique card situation since these have virtually the same effect for the same cost.
Well, Land's Edge only hit players (and is a worlds enchantment, so you can just need some other worlds enchantment) and lightning storm hits only 1 target (without recuring it), so I think it should not be too hard
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I don't think you need both the Orrery and the Cauldron? It seems like one extra land drop will do.
You cast heat shimmer and bring Tarox back to hand. You discard him (Tarox in play is power 8) to the command zone. You sac Command Beacon, bringing Tarox back to hand. You discard him (Tarox in play is power 16). You play Command Beacon from the grave for your standard land drop. You crack it and get Tarox back. You discard him (Tarox in play is power 32). You play Command Beacon from the grave with an extra land drop. You crack it and get Tarox to your hand. You discard him (Tarox in play is power 64).
EDIT: Nevermind. I realized that my first step was wrong. Heat shimmer puts Tarox in the command zone not in hand.
Also, for the refuters out there, this combo requires 8 mana (3 for heat shimmer, 3 for rupture, and 2 to activate bone mask). So you're looking for a replacement (playable in a Tarox deck) that you could use in place of Command Beacon here with CMC 8 or less (your mana budget decreases of course if you also want to cast heat shimmer or rupture and/or activate the bone wand).
Actually, one could use blade of selves instead of heat shimmer. This uses less mana. Otherwise it would be partly refuted by dualcaster mage (but not quite since the heat shimmer one uses ome less red mana).One needs to get a copy another way than heat shimmer because of dualcaster mage
blade of selves Doesnt work because the tokens get exiled at end of combat. I guess Minion Reflector does fine (but requires quite a bit of mana). Mimic Vat does work too but one needs to have a creature that can sac itself (to remove Torax from the vat) or have made a token end of the last oppeonts turn and then make a second one (and then exile the token that dies to the legend rule to the vat).
Hand: rupture
In play: minion reflector, crucible of worlds, Ghirapur Orrery, a Storm Cauldron and bone mask and command beacon.
Mana required: 5 to play tarox, 2 to copy it, 3 to play rupture, 2 to activate bone mask = 12
Is that right?
Well, I can't find a refutation and it's been 24 hours. I think you're up for naming the next card.
Most Used (of many dozens) EDH Decks:
Brago, King Eternal - Stax
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - Aggro Combo
Wort, the Raidmother - Spellslinger Swarm Control
Animar, Soul of Elements - Tempo Combo
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - Spellslinger
Exodia the Forbidden One:
Oona, Queen of the Fae - Combowins.dec
My general is Saffi Eriksdotter.
I also have Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Citanul Hierophants, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Concordant Crossroads, and
Intruder AlarmParadox Engine.I tap Saffi, Kamahl, the Hierophants, and the Pilgrim for GGGW.
I spend G to make Command Beacon a creature using Kamahl's first ability. I sacrifice Saffi targeting the Beacon and putting her in the command zone. I sacrifice the Beacon, putting Saffi in my hand and the Beacon back in play. I spend GW to recast Saffi, untapping everything thanks to
Intruder AlarmParadox Engine. I'm now back where I started except that I have netted G. I repeat until I have a million green mana and then trample everyone to death with Kamahl's second ability.Then I remembered (after an embarassingly long pause) that you can't have Intruder Alarm in a Saffi deck. And every alternative I came up with kept accidentally making infinite mana without needing Command Beacon at all....
EDIT: Paradox Engine. There it is. Paradox Engine instead of Intruder Alarm and my combo works.
I would like to see Humility used in a combo, but I suspect it might be tricky and if none answers it in say 24h I will try to think of another.
EDIT: I think I found one, so it should be possible
Epic Struggle, Abyssal Persecutor, 19 Saproling tokens, and Lethal Vapors in play. Final Fortune and Humility in Hand.
I don't think this really counts as "combo" though, it's just a weird boardstate where I think only Humility can win for you. You're only playing Abyssal Persecutor and Lethal Vapors in order to make it harder to win with other cards.
I'm posting this for the purpose of discussion/inspiration, not as an actual proposed solution.
Also, Command Beacon idea: Commander Haakon, Stromgald Scourge in command zone, Basal Sliver / Skeletal Changeling in play, Grapeshot in hand. (Stole the combo from someone else.
I'll try to come up with a combo that works, but this one's hard...
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Oh and I love the Titania combo with Command Beacon, very clean. I don't think I understand the Haakon combo. Don't you also need a discard outlet?
Oh, hey, this works if the last one would've. Humility, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Gaea's Anthem, Gaea's Anthem, Gaea's Anthem, Gaea's Anthem, Dovescape.Whoops left my tab open, didn't see that locks didn't count. nvm.
And the Haakon combo (again, not mine): The Changeling gets the Sliver ability to sac itself, and Haakon lets you play Knights (read: Changelings) from grave. So you can infinitely loop those two; sac for BB, play from grave for 1B, eventually cast grapeshot. However, only Beacon (to my knowledge) lets you get Haakon out of the command zone, so it'd be the only option to allow the combo.
EDIT: Also meant Intangible Virtue, not Gaea's Anthem (not that it matters). That way my own refutation wouldn't have worked.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Right, I get that, but once you have Haakon in your hand, you still can't cast him. So you need to add a card that can get him to the graveyard from your hand.
i don't think this counts as a disproving, since the eldrazi cost a good deal more than humility... still by 256K's own admission this is not really a combo so much as a lets-me-win situation, so I don't know if it counts in the first place.
though to be honest i can't think of any situation where i'd play humility to win except if i had an already undesirable board state where one of my own creatures was stopping from winning with its ability. i mean, that's what the card does, it removes abilities from your creatures...
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
A better refutation, I think, is Humble, since it's designed to be a one-turn Humility.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
(My combo with humility was:
In hand: Emrakul, the promised end, capsize, Island
In play: Humility, Mana matrix, Sapphire Medallion, Jace's Sanctum, Mirror Gallery, Metallurgic Summonings, earthcraft, Eye of Ugin, Vesuva (copying Eye of Ugin), Thespian's Stage (copying Eye of Ugin), Leyline of Anticipation
In graveyard: 7 different card types not otherwise of interest
Play Island (gives U), Emrakul (is free because of the eyes and the cards in gy - gives U with earthcraft), buyback capsize (cost UU because of the cost reductions) on Emrakul and you get a token from Metallurgic Summonings allowing you to untap the Island and you are back to start. You can do this on your oppents turn (the part after playing island) because of Leyline of Anticipation
Win con: mill people by controlling them for N+1 turns where N is the number of cards in library)
Edit: Missed the need for doing it on your oppeonts turn since turn control overwrites and do not stack.
So here you go: Endrek Sahr, Master breeder + endless cockroaches + phyrexian altar; this makes infinite green mana.
add in lightning rift already in play and life from the loam, slippery karst and polluted mire in hand. Ulamog the infinte gyre in your deck somewhere so you don't deck yourself via dredge.
make infinite mana, cycle a land, shoot someone for two damage, cast life from the loam, get back the land, cycle the other land, dredge life from the loam, rinse and repeat.
i'd be surprised if anything can replace lightning rift here since it costs so little and is so narrowly focused on cycling.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Goblin Bombardment or even fireball refutes it.
Edit: Hmm, no infinite mana combos makes it hard as well, so lets instead do Seismic Assault
err with seismic assault then...
in play: fastbond, urza's armor, crucible of worlds and petrified field. play seismic assault, pitch a land, sac the field to get the land, play the field from the yard, and keep going? though any free discard outlet that turns cards into damage could replace the assault, i just can't think of any right now...
EDIT: land's edge and lightning storm can both replace seismic assault here, nevermind. would be tough to find a unique card situation since these have virtually the same effect for the same cost.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash