MTG Salvation

I am dismantling my Geist French Commander deck and I am looking to build semi-competitive Voltron deck, therefore the options must include UW because I already have the base for it.

I am looking for a non-glass cannon Voltron deck (non-gung ho attack and kill 1 player and then run out of gas), at the moment I am considering Geist of Saint Traft, Rafiq of the Many or Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest. I was thinking of a rather small creature count of around 15-20 containing Voltron-able creatures and support creatures, the aim of the deck would be to ttack and win via commander damage or via normal damage (which is undoubtably harder) without using Mass Land Destruction

Geist of Saint Traft - This would be the cheapest to build.

Rafiq of the Many - This seems very glass cannon but the speed is amazing

Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest - This is something I have never played against and the ability to give multiple creatures double strike sounds amazing, however the spells:creature ratio is something that will need testing

Would love any input as I have never built a Voltron deck. Other commander suggestions are welcomed (need to include UW)

While Geist of Saint Traft is strong but at least for my taste he's more of a Solitaire than a MTG-card. Rafiq of the Many is strong and the classic Voltron guy. Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest has rather unusual mechanics and might be strong, especially with Auras and Equipments triggering his ability.

Other suggestions:

Bruna, Light of Alabaster - doesn't come down as fast but is exceptionally strong.
Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker - Needs protection, but will grow fast and big in MP EDH.
Zur the Enchanter - Same category as Geist of Saint Traft, but devilish strong.
Jenara, Asura of War - Gets out of hand fast, especially with Doubling Season and the likes.
Atraxa, Praetor's Voice - Bored to death by her PW-versions, but comes with a ton of keywords, can proliferate counters on herself and stuff like Umezawa's Jitte so she might be worth a try.
Saskia the Unyielding - Can either get quadruple strike via double strike or punch two opponents in the face at the same time.

Geist of Saint Traft, Zur the Enchanter and Rafiq of the Many would propably be the strongest, with the first two being the most flavorless at that. Because of that i'd propably build Jenara, Asura of War, Saskia the Unyielding, Atraxa, Praetor's Voice or Rafiq of the Many.

I have played Shu Yun. I really like it. Let's you build a Sunforger package. Cards like Hidden Strings are amazing.

All of these decks can suffer from being "glass cannons", but they all play blue. You shouldn't run out of gas.

Thank you for the reply and the alternative commanders

Bruna, Light of Alabaster - The high mana cost is probably the main reason why I would not use her.
Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker - I would love this card in the 99 but as a commander i think Geist is superior
Zur the Enchanter - I have an oloro deck and building esper again would not be ideal
Jenara, Asura of War - the decks that I have seen for Jenara are usually a ramp and go wide strategy and I already have an Animar deck that plays similarly
Atraxa, Praetor's Voice - avoiding 4 colors because the mana base will be expensive and knowing me, it would end up a good stuff commander
Saskia the Unyielding - Saskia sadly does not have blue

I think both Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest and Rafiq of the Many are superior to Geist in explosiveness due to their low mana cost
for Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest; I think the main issue is how reliably can I trigger his double strike ability which means I have to balance the spells vs creature count and I would need to run a decent amount of cantrips. can Shu Yun be better than Rafiq? Though Sunforger package should be amazing

for Rafiq of the Many; The more I think about it, the stronger he seems. Being able to kill someone quick and then for the remaining players kind of sit back and go slightly wider.

I play Shu Yun myself, he's a capable control-viltron with added benefit of political games.

Could you perhaps share your list? Control-Voltron sounds good because it may be one way to ensure my deck is not a glass-cannon type deck.

Quote from Jeff2302 »

I am dismantling my Geist French Commander deck and I am looking to build semi-competitive Voltron deck, therefore the options must include UW because I already have the base for it.

I am looking for a non-glass cannon Voltron deck (non-gung ho attack and kill 1 player and then run out of gas), at the moment I am considering Geist of Saint Traft, Rafiq of the Many or Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest. I was thinking of a rather small creature count of around 15-20 containing Voltron-able creatures and support creatures, the aim of the deck would be to ttack and win via commander damage or via normal damage (which is undoubtably harder) without using Mass Land Destruction

Geist of Saint Traft - This would be the cheapest to build.

Rafiq of the Many - This seems very glass cannon but the speed is amazing

Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest - This is something I have never played against and the ability to give multiple creatures double strike sounds amazing, however the spells:creature ratio is something that will need testing

Would love any input as I have never built a Voltron deck. Other commander suggestions are welcomed (need to include UW)

Try taking a look at my UW Sygg voltron deck

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/syggs-defense-edh-voltron-control-1/

Quote from Jeff2302 »

I am dismantling my Geist French Commander deck and I am looking to build semi-competitive Voltron deck, therefore the options must include UW because I already have the base for it.

I am looking for a non-glass cannon Voltron deck (non-gung ho attack and kill 1 player and then run out of gas), at the moment I am considering Geist of Saint Traft, Rafiq of the Many or Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest. I was thinking of a rather small creature count of around 15-20 containing Voltron-able creatures and support creatures, the aim of the deck would be to ttack and win via commander damage or via normal damage (which is undoubtably harder) without using Mass Land Destruction

Geist of Saint Traft - This would be the cheapest to build.

Rafiq of the Many - This seems very glass cannon but the speed is amazing

Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest - This is something I have never played against and the ability to give multiple creatures double strike sounds amazing, however the spells:creature ratio is something that will need testing

Would love any input as I have never built a Voltron deck. Other commander suggestions are welcomed (need to include UW)

Shu yun, is unique in the fact that it lets you use sunforger to cast voltron piece search spells.

Quote from Jeff2302 »

Could you perhaps share your list? Control-Voltron sounds good because it may be one way to ensure my deck is not a glass-cannon type deck.

Let me update it and link it here.

Mystic Speculation and View From Above seem like auto includes, since they provide repeatable card selection and evasion and allow for Shu Yun's ability to trigger again and again. Also, i'd do a gatherer search on all cards with buyback, cipher and rebound in particular. There are also a few red cards, something devils and goblin dwellers and a few others that can repeatedly recur sorceries, those seem a good fit as well. Narset in both forms seems good as well.

I use Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker and Reyhan, Last of the Abzan, in a voltron control deck.

You can check it out here : http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/764886-breed-lethality-with-ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker

Quote from darrenhabib »

I use Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker and Reyhan, Last of the Abzan, in a voltron control deck.

You can check it out here : http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/764886-breed-lethality-with-ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker

Thank you for the reply and I have checked out your decklist, however I would prefer avoiding adding a 4th color solely based on budget reasons.

I have more or less ruled out Geist of Saint Traft because he seems underwhelming in Multiplayer, so I am back to my options of Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest and Rafiq of the Many

I feel that Rafiq is the more competitive of the two but building a spell slinger/voltron Shu Yun should be more fun.
Any thoughts on which of the two you guys would run and why?

Rafiq is busted with swords or with enchantments.

Quote from Jeff2302 »

Quote from darrenhabib »

I use Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker and Reyhan, Last of the Abzan, in a voltron control deck.

You can check it out here : http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/764886-breed-lethality-with-ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker

Thank you for the reply and I have checked out your decklist, however I would prefer avoiding adding a 4th color solely based on budget reasons.

I have more or less ruled out Geist of Saint Traft because he seems underwhelming in Multiplayer, so I am back to my options of Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest and Rafiq of the Many

I feel that Rafiq is the more competitive of the two but building a spell slinger/voltron Shu Yun should be more fun.
Any thoughts on which of the two you guys would run and why?

We did have a Rafiq of the Many deck in our competitive play group, however its been dismantled as in all honesty, Voltron is one of the weakest strategies when it comes to true competitive play. I've only played against Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest decks, and they have always never been unable to get the job done. In fact even killing one player needs a lot of things to go right with Shu.

Here's my Shu Yun decklist:

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/772902-shu-yun-voltron-control

Let me know what you think!

Quote from cyberium_neo »

Here's my Shu Yun decklist:

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/772902-shu-yun-voltron-control

Let me know what you think!

Wow, thank you for making an entire thread for me, this is over and beyond what I was hoping to get. This is almost exactly the type of spellslinging/semi-voltron deck I was hoping to build.

I also made a draft of Shu Yun but I think I will scrap mine and then kind of merge it with yours.

How does your deck do in a table of 4? Do you run out of steam often?
and how do you deal with having multiple opponents with only 8 creatures? I was thinking soemwhere along the lines of 15 including some larger creatures where Shu Yun will play the support role by giving doublestrike.

EDIT: How often do you have problems giving doublestrike to multiple creatures? Theoretically seems a bit mana intensive

Mainly, I am comparing it Rafiq who can give doublestrike for 1 creature vs Shu Yun who can give doublestrike but for 2 mana for each creature.

Looking only at the general, Rafiq is probably the better option. He costs 1 more, has a more color intensive casting cost, and can only buff one creature, but makes up for it by being less demanding to hit hard with. Rafiq is also in green, which gives you strong mana acceleration options and better auras. I guess the question then is, what unique strengths does Shu Yun have.

1. You can run more utility spells and still leverage them into damage via Prowess. Cantrips, disruption and evasion spells do double-duty when attacking.
2. Blazing Shoal at 7+ kills someone for only (R/W)(R/W). (Odds // Ends and Catch // Release are interesting cards to pitch to it.)
3. Sunforger is incredible, and there are numerous ways to get it. Runechanter's Pike can also be very threatening, with little mana investment, and matches your gameplan better than Rafiq's.
4. You have access to compact combo kills in Dualcaster Mage+Twinflame or Kiki-Jiki+(Resto/Conscript/Pestermite). Recruiter of the Guard and Imperial Recruiter can assemble the latter combo on their own.
5. Various other strong red cards like Blood Moon to randomly destroy manabases, Wheel of Fortune to refill your hand, Stranglehold to curb tutors, and your artifact removal spells are naturally incredible. Hidden Strings or Sword of Feast and Famine can also turn a 1-player kill into a 3-player one with Seize the Day.

Playstyle wise, I think Rafiq is much more of a typical "attack as often as possible" general. Shu Yun requires an additional two mana each time you want to dome someone, so you'll probably make a few calculated attacks for lethal, and then wait until your next opportunity. If you want to play him in a more conventional Voltron method, you'll probably have to find a way to get a lot of mana and try to doublestrike with a Sword of FaF/FaI as much as possible, or try a spellslinging Runechanter's Pike plan. There's an argument to be made that Shu Yun can double-strike multiple creatures, but I don't think that's very feasible to take advantage of, although it's a good political tool on other players' turns. He might be one of few commanders that can "Storm-Voltron". Start off with a Silence, then combo off. Kill one player, then take extra combat steps and repeat until victory. I doubt it's very good, but it might be somewhat fun, and you have Past in Flames, Mizzix's Mastery and Mind's Desire to play with.

I think Rafiq of the Many is so scary because you can kill out of nowhere even if your commander doesn't have haste.
T1 dork, t2 infect guy, t3 Rafiq + Invigorate is someone dead. This isn't terribly uncommon, and you can usually catch one player with shields down on t3.

Quote from Jeff2302 »

Wow, thank you for making an entire thread for me, this is over and beyond what I was hoping to get. This is almost exactly the type of spellslinging/semi-voltron deck I was hoping to build.

I also made a draft of Shu Yun but I think I will scrap mine and then kind of merge it with yours.

How does your deck do in a table of 4? Do you run out of steam often?
and how do you deal with having multiple opponents with only 8 creatures? I was thinking soemwhere along the lines of 15 including some larger creatures where Shu Yun will play the support role by giving doublestrike.

EDIT: How often do you have problems giving doublestrike to multiple creatures? Theoretically seems a bit mana intensive

Mainly, I am comparing it Rafiq who can give doublestrike for 1 creature vs Shu Yun who can give doublestrike but for 2 mana for each creature.

A strength of a voltron deck is that once the general is out, you might be able to defeat an opponent with one hit. On the flip side, opponent could kill the general before it could hit. Together, I noticed my opponents tend to consider me less threatening if I don't have my general out, which is why I enjoy having alternative wincons in this deck.

In multiplayer game, I'd only play Shu Yun when I know I could protect him, but even if he's taken out I'd have other ways to win. I only have 8 creatures but many of them produce an army if left unchecked, so their number isn't an issue. Another strength of voltron is that the wincon is right in the command zone, so worst come to worst I can still summon Shu Yun for a fighting chance. And, as mentioned in my thread, I feel that a benefit of Shu Yun is that he is a great bargaining chip on the board, play permission with spells while giving out double strike when see fit, the other two generals don't have such option on their own, which helps me survive as I help an ally survive.

That said, I am not obsessed with double strike. As a voltron/control deck I prefer having extra mana open for situations than trying to kill an opponent quickly, since a single Fog effect could nullify a however huge creature (Sunforger is spectacular but very expensive). My first focus would also be keeping my hand close to full before I strike, and ensures that I have ways to refill my hand when I need it. I originally have Runechanter's Pike in my decklist but decided to approach the game more slowly.

I am not a fan of Geist, but I have thought about making a Rafiq deck since green provides so much creature/mana utilities, but that'd be a more linear deck style. Mown additionally gave very good suggestions on alternative wincons Shu Yun provides (via red) if you want to play Shu Yun more aggressively.

So I made my first draft of this deck based on your suggestions, I am most likely going to go Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest over Rafiq of the Many thanks to your amazing write-up and because I agree that Shu Yun is less linear.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-03-17-shu-yun-the-silent-tempest/

I've got more creatures than your build but that is mainly becasue sweepers are very common in my playgroup but other than that it seems pretty similar.

Quote from Jeff2302 »

So I made my first draft of this deck based on your suggestions, I am most likely going to go Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest over Rafiq of the Many thanks to your amazing write-up and because I agree that Shu Yun is less linear.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-03-17-shu-yun-the-silent-tempest/

I've got more creatures than your build but that is mainly becasue sweepers are very common in my playgroup but other than that it seems pretty similar.

Upon first glance, I want to ask if mana is an issue for you. I used 34 lands in my deck because I packed 6 mana rocks.

I like some of your choices there, such as Keranos, God of Storms and Malignus, I want to test them myself. :3

I was hoping to that by running more cantrips, I would be able to draw into the lands but I tried goldfishing on tapped out and it did not work that way.

I have added 3 Signets and upped the land count to 36. I am hoping that will solve it. However I am now 5 cards above my limit, do you have suggestions on what to cut?

EDIT: I have added 3 signets and upped the land count, if WotC finally completes the Talisman cycle, I will consider adding more mana rocks but so far the land count is looking good.

I just want to say thank you very much cyberium_neo, you almost single-handedly convinced me to build Shu Yun over Rafiq and I am very pleased about the Shu Yun draf that I have

Why Geist? You only get two points of Commander damage when he attacks, and he has no native evasion, though he does have hexproof.

Shu Yun is fun. You get to give him equipments and get an extra point of Commander damage each time.

French Geist works quite effectively in multiplayer. You can siphon out some of the more selective elements. The list I run can be found here. If you wanted to shift that more towards Voltron, it would certainly be quite doable.

In regards to

Quote from hyalapterouslemur »

Why Geist? You only get two points of Commander damage when he attacks, and he has no native evasion, though he does have hexproof.

Geist kills 2 people at once, is a cheap creature, and is in very good colors for what the deck wants to do.

----------------------------

I haven't thought much about Shu Yun, but Rafiq is a notoriously good Voltron general.

Quote from Jeff2302 »

I was hoping to that by running more cantrips, I would be able to draw into the lands but I tried goldfishing on tapped out and it did not work that way.

I have added 3 Signets and upped the land count to 36. I am hoping that will solve it. However I am now 5 cards above my limit, do you have suggestions on what to cut?

EDIT: I have added 3 signets and upped the land count, if WotC finally completes the Talisman cycle, I will consider adding more mana rocks but so far the land count is looking good.

I just want to say thank you very much cyberium_neo, you almost single-handedly convinced me to build Shu Yun over Rafiq and I am very pleased about the Shu Yun draf that I have

You welcome. :3

I tend to reduce one land in my deck for every two mana rocks I have, but it's a personal preference. Aside from that, I'd also cut Geist of Saint Traft.