So, I see alot of "competitive decks arebased on your meta" and such. But I want to look deeper. Beyond kitchen tables. Beyond Casual metas. What are some of the most degenerate decks to plague/grace commander? Please specify also between multiplayer and French 1v1, as the difference occassionally matters.
I do not know much about french, as i play predominately multiplayer, but my vote goes to Derevi Stax, Leovold Wheels, and Purphoros. A strong honorable mention to Narset Turns and Krenko Goblins.
What are your guys thoughts?
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I've played against a few really degenerate Arcum Dagsson decks in multiplayer settings. I think he's at the top of my list for "most degenerate deck you've ever played against" list, if that's what you're looking for.
It really depends on the build itself. I think Hermit Druid line of play is pretty OP. But that strategy can be played in many different decks as long as you play the tutors and so forth. So it's hard to say that "This deck is the most degenerate".
I'm gonna state that anything I write here is my opinion only. I should be obvious considering I'm writing it and this is a subjective topic, but in case you're worried that I think I'm stating facts, I'm well aware that I'm not.
I think decks that have their most powerful card in the command zone end up creating poor commander experiences. They could be describe as 'Degenerate.' I find the term itself comedic because if it was any other format these decks would just be good or 'tier 1' or whatever adjective you want to use to describe decks that float to the top of the meta.
Azami, Lady of the Scrolls helms a deck that draws a ton of cards early and easily. It then leverages those cards to form game winning infinite combos with counter backup. Its weak to cheap and mass creature hate, but many times the damage has been done if they have drawn enough cards.
Cause of Degenerateitis:
Azami creates a lot of cards for no mana once she and her wizards are in play. This is a free repeatable resource and only gets worse as time goes on.
The aforementioned Arcum Dagsson is a powerful artifact combo enabler that lives in the command zone. A well tuned build can win the game with a single activation and thus very early in the game. He is limited to artifacts and requires build around.
Cause of Degenerateitis:
Dagsson cheats mana and selection. His ability is effectively Tinker universally regarded as a broken card because it acts as Fabricate + Multiple Black Lotus. He is a repeatable source of tinkers.
Zur the Enchanter everyone knows that Zur can create some very stifling board states with just a couple of swings. He can protect himself, make the game boring, and win with insane enchantments.
Cause of Degenerateitis:
Zur cheats mana and selection as well. For the basically free cost of attacking you get Idyllic Tutor + Black Lotus. The combat steps he gets, the worse.
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician creates a lot of free actions. The trigger is so versatile and can be utilized to do so much. She is normally built as a stax lockdown sort of deck.
Cause of Degenerateitis:
She also never costs more than 4 mana making removal less effective against her than almost any other commander. Her trigger is just so good and becomes even better with other creatures.
Animar, Soul of Elements - I've just never seen this hit a mat without barfing out half its deck next turn. I don't think I've ever seen anybody win against Animar.
Leovold, Emissary of Trest - Definitely. He not only enables, but pretty much demands, a lockout deck. This is the fastest I've ever seen calls for bans to come out against a commander after it was printed.
Sharuum the Hegemon / Sydri, Galvanic Genius - Either one of these enables a panoply of infinite combos. I've played either of these, warned the group that it was a fast combo deck, got them all to bring out their most oppressive decks in response, had all three players fighting to counter and kill everything I was doing, and still managed to one-shot the table by turn six or so.
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I feel like I've seen this same sort of thread like three times in the past week. What's up with that?
I'm surprised so many people still regard Sharuum/Arcum as the top of degenerate decks. They have been really, really good, but I think stronger options have been developed since then.
Derevi and Leovold are two good ones.
Storm/Ad Naus decks are another. Usually Zur or Jeleva.
Reanimator decks as well. Tasigur, probably.
Purph, Krenko, Animar, and Sharuum/Arcum are all solid decks (well, I don't know if I've ever seen a Purph list that is really degenerate), but I think they're just a tad slower than the other lockdown/combo decks out there right now.
There's really a ton of decks that are "degenerate." You can build a ton of decks that can goldfish like a turn four win off of Tooth and Nail or something, if you try.
I do not know much about french, as i play predominately multiplayer, but my vote goes to Derevi Stax, Leovold Wheels, and Purphoros. A strong honorable mention to Narset Turns and Krenko Goblins.
What are your guys thoughts?
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
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Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI think decks that have their most powerful card in the command zone end up creating poor commander experiences. They could be describe as 'Degenerate.' I find the term itself comedic because if it was any other format these decks would just be good or 'tier 1' or whatever adjective you want to use to describe decks that float to the top of the meta.
Azami, Lady of the Scrolls helms a deck that draws a ton of cards early and easily. It then leverages those cards to form game winning infinite combos with counter backup. Its weak to cheap and mass creature hate, but many times the damage has been done if they have drawn enough cards.
Cause of Degenerateitis:
Azami creates a lot of cards for no mana once she and her wizards are in play. This is a free repeatable resource and only gets worse as time goes on.
The aforementioned Arcum Dagsson is a powerful artifact combo enabler that lives in the command zone. A well tuned build can win the game with a single activation and thus very early in the game. He is limited to artifacts and requires build around.
Cause of Degenerateitis:
Dagsson cheats mana and selection. His ability is effectively Tinker universally regarded as a broken card because it acts as Fabricate + Multiple Black Lotus. He is a repeatable source of tinkers.
Zur the Enchanter everyone knows that Zur can create some very stifling board states with just a couple of swings. He can protect himself, make the game boring, and win with insane enchantments.
Cause of Degenerateitis:
Zur cheats mana and selection as well. For the basically free cost of attacking you get Idyllic Tutor + Black Lotus. The combat steps he gets, the worse.
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician creates a lot of free actions. The trigger is so versatile and can be utilized to do so much. She is normally built as a stax lockdown sort of deck.
Cause of Degenerateitis:
She also never costs more than 4 mana making removal less effective against her than almost any other commander. Her trigger is just so good and becomes even better with other creatures.
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Leovold, Emissary of Trest - Definitely. He not only enables, but pretty much demands, a lockout deck. This is the fastest I've ever seen calls for bans to come out against a commander after it was printed.
Sharuum the Hegemon / Sydri, Galvanic Genius - Either one of these enables a panoply of infinite combos. I've played either of these, warned the group that it was a fast combo deck, got them all to bring out their most oppressive decks in response, had all three players fighting to counter and kill everything I was doing, and still managed to one-shot the table by turn six or so.
I'm surprised so many people still regard Sharuum/Arcum as the top of degenerate decks. They have been really, really good, but I think stronger options have been developed since then.
Derevi and Leovold are two good ones.
Storm/Ad Naus decks are another. Usually Zur or Jeleva.
Reanimator decks as well. Tasigur, probably.
Purph, Krenko, Animar, and Sharuum/Arcum are all solid decks (well, I don't know if I've ever seen a Purph list that is really degenerate), but I think they're just a tad slower than the other lockdown/combo decks out there right now.
There's really a ton of decks that are "degenerate." You can build a ton of decks that can goldfish like a turn four win off of Tooth and Nail or something, if you try.
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