The argument "why not just play Aurelia or Gisela" is true, but a bad reason to call Boros bad. You could say the same thing about nearly every color combination. Why not just play Lyzolda? Why not just play Meren? There will always be the S tier Commanders but I assume we play different Commanders for diversity, yes? It seems most agree there is diversity, just that it sucks. So the complaint isn't power level, or diversity, but having power level distributed among the diversity. I don't disagree, I just think that's how Magic is. There will always be cards that are similar, different, weak, strong. Boros has interesting cards so pick a Commander and have fun with what Boros has to offer.
If I was in charge of printing a Boros legend, I would put Commune with Lava on a stick. Maybe it would read like Prossh, exile cards for the amount of mana spent to cast it. Cards with that exile mechanic will always be my pet cards.
...Except for the part where that has nothing whatsoever to do with white.
Lyzolda is your "S-tier" (god I hate the idea that there's "tiers" of commanders like we're playing street fighter or something) BR commander? Wut?
Anyway, the problem is simple. Boros commanders fit into one of two camps:
1) those who's main purpose is to deal damage to players in a format where that purpose is very ineffective (and more importantly, boring)
The argument "why not just play Aurelia or Gisela" is true, but a bad reason to call Boros bad. You could say the same thing about nearly every color combination. Why not just play Lyzolda? Why not just play Meren? There will always be the S tier Commanders but I assume we play different Commanders for diversity, yes? It seems most agree there is diversity, just that it sucks. So the complaint isn't power level, or diversity, but having power level distributed among the diversity. I don't disagree, I just think that's how Magic is. There will always be cards that are similar, different, weak, strong. Boros has interesting cards so pick a Commander and have fun with what Boros has to offer.
If I was in charge of printing a Boros legend, I would put Commune with Lava on a stick. Maybe it would read like Prossh, exile cards for the amount of mana spent to cast it. Exile card advantage will always be my favorite mechanic.
The boros problem is that you can't choose a boros commander for diversity. They all play so similarly that the more powerful tend to push out the others and even when you do choose to play a less powerful general it's so similar to playing a power house that it doesn't make too much of a difference because the deck either ignores the general or plays the same.
The fact that there is so much that boros has to offer that is completely unrepresented in legendary form is a problem. There aren't even any token producing RW legendaries and red and white both make lot's of tokens.
If I was in charge of printing a Boros legend, I would put Commune with Lava on a stick. Maybe it would read like Prossh, exile cards for the amount of mana spent to cast it. Cards with that exile mechanic will always be my pet cards.
...Except for the part where that has nothing whatsoever to do with white.
Dammit Dirk, a guy can dream! Can I change my answer to Aurelia's Fury? Love that card too.
Lyzolda is your "S-tier" (god I hate the idea that there's "tiers" of commanders like we're playing street fighter or something) BR commander? Wut?
I personally like tiers, but I respect and understand those who don't. Not trying to shoe-horn that idea in, but this discussion started to feel like a tier discussion. ie. Aurelia and Gisela are god tier, why play Iroas? To that I say, play them for fun! Many will disagree, just clarifying why I brought up tiers. (unrelated note: Lyzolda is a pretty strong combo general, it's one-track minded and I hate it)
Anyway, the problem is simple. Boros commanders fit into one of two camps:
1) those who's main purpose is to deal damage to players in a format where that purpose is very ineffective (and more importantly, boring)
AND
2) those who suck horribly
I actually embarked on the "make a good Boros deck" journey a few years ago. It wasn't the greatest but I did win games often enough, and I did it with combat damage. "Boros smash" certainly sounds boring on paper, but I had fun. To each their own. On your second point, I may have dismissed this too readily. You say it's not that there are Boros generals that suck, it's that the only Boros generals that aren't "Boros smash" suck. You're right, that's a good point. I can see a case being made for Archangel Avacyn though as a control deck.
I actually embarked on the "make a good Boros deck" journey a few years ago. It wasn't the greatest but I did win games often enough, and I did it with combat damage. "Boros smash" certainly sounds boring on paper, but I had fun. To each their own. On your second point, I may have dismissed this too readily. You say it's not that there are Boros generals that suck, it's that the only Boros generals that aren't "Boros smash" suck. You're right, great point. I can see a case being made for Archangel Avacyn though as a control deck.
I missed avacyn in my search since she's not technically RW by gatherer standards. I would argue she falls into the "sucks" camp, but at least she doesn't suck in the same depressing way as Depala and Munda (i.e. interesting cards that suck because they reference card types that they can't possibly have enough of, or good enough cards of, to be relevant in commander). The 3-damage wipe is a decent effect and the indestructibility is actually a nice add for an aggro deck for wrath protection, and at least it doesn't just always equate to more player damage. She still doesn't scale very well into multiplayer, though, and her main modes are either (1) beating face, and (2) helping your team beat face, with a side order of (3) do a wipe that ruins #2 but isn't strong enough to justify building around imo. Sadly she might be the best non-damage boros commander, though.
I think this does illustrate why it's so disheartening to see crap commanders for boros in the precons. Avacyn is quite mediocre in commander but she's quite good in standard. In order to print cards that are good in commander but won't affect standard, they usually need to cost too much, have an ability that necessitates building around them, or scales specifically for multiplayer. Commander is their opportunity to print something really cool for commander that doesn't mess with other constructed formats, and they take that opportunity to give us anya, merciless angel? Blerg.
Red and white both get artifact synergy. White actually gets it more, but red gets equipment synergy, "sacrifice an artifact", and "when an artifact goes to the graveyard", with the occasional artifact recursion.
Point me to any white card that has synergy with non-equipment artifacts and isn't either from a super old set, or from an artifact-themed set where every color is getting artifact synergy. I'm pretty sure the only arguable exception is the esper cards, but if that's your evidence, you'd have to put black on the same footing and white, and blue is unquestionably higher. So then you're looking at RW being basically #2-3 and #4 at artifact synergy. Surely there are colors better suited to it - like blue + ANYTHING. Plus we've already gotten not one, but two RW legends with artifact synergy (albeit boring synergy).
Equipment synergy, on the other hand, is virtually nonexistent outside of RW. Black and green have essentially nothing and blue only has 2 equipment theft cards. Red has a decent number (6+) and white has a ton (20+). It seems like a no-brainer area of overlap, yet 17 RW legends and nothing. Instead we've gotten bad artifact synergy TWICE(???).
Most of the artifact cards in general got printed either in Mirrodin 1, Shards of Alara, or Mirrodin 2. So, that really doesn't prove White has no artifact interaction, since cards like Sanctum Gargoyle and Razor Hippogriff exist. There was even interaction in Magic's heritage, with cards like Argivian Find.
But in the first place, the whole idea is really tired that if such and such is lacking in an artifact commander, we gotta give them an artifact commander. There are tons of Legendaries in this game, and not all of them have to interact with artifacts. Besides, just having something that interacts with artifacts doesn't make a color combination suddenly fresh and new. It's a pointless exercise.
Anyway, the problem is simple. Boros commanders fit into one of two camps:
1) those who's main purpose is to deal damage to players in a format where that purpose is very ineffective (and more importantly, boring)
AND
2) those who suck horribly
And guess what? All creatures attack. If you don't want to attack, you don't have to play a creature. All Ramirez DePietro does is attack, but he's terrible. So go ahead and play Nicol Bolas, don't cast him, and storm off. But if you want to attack, you have to play a creature, and having a creature who attacks is great when it doesn't suck horribly. So if you want to attack and not suck, one of your options is Boros.
I think this does illustrate why it's so disheartening to see crap commanders for boros in the precons. Avacyn is quite mediocre in commander but she's quite good in standard. In order to print cards that are good in commander but won't affect standard, they usually need to cost too much, have an ability that necessitates building around them, or scales specifically for multiplayer. Commander is their opportunity to print something really cool for commander that doesn't mess with other constructed formats, and they take that opportunity to give us anya, merciless angel? Blerg.
You know, almost every Legend, Planeswalker, or really any mythic gets mixed reactions. Some people slot them right in, some people say they're terrible. But does ANYONE think last year's Boros commanders were good? I don't think I've seen a single positive thing about them, I truly cannot imagine how they got through.
Re Avacyn: Just spent an hour trying to draft a control list. Low cost hatebears and utility creatures plus Sunforger makes for a decent early-mid game. Kiki-Resto, PW ultimates, or even just Boros smash are decent finishers. This could be a decent control deck, and it could be fun and casual too if you used niche cards like Deflecting Palm or Comeuppance.
Point me to any white card that has synergy with non-equipment artifacts and isn't either from a super old set, or from an artifact-themed set where every color is getting artifact synergy. I'm pretty sure the only arguable exception is the esper cards, but if that's your evidence, you'd have to put black on the same footing and white, and blue is unquestionably higher. So then you're looking at RW being basically #2-3 and #4 at artifact synergy. Surely there are colors better suited to it - like blue + ANYTHING. Plus we've already gotten not one, but two RW legends with artifact synergy (albeit boring synergy).
Equipment synergy, on the other hand, is virtually nonexistent outside of RW. Black and green have essentially nothing and blue only has 2 equipment theft cards. Red has a decent number (6+) and white has a ton (20+). It seems like a no-brainer area of overlap, yet 17 RW legends and nothing. Instead we've gotten bad artifact synergy TWICE(???).
Most of the artifact cards in general got printed either in Mirrodin 1, Shards of Alara, or Mirrodin 2. So, that really doesn't prove White has no artifact interaction, since cards like Sanctum Gargoyle and Razor Hippogriff exist. There was even interaction in Magic's heritage, with cards like Argivian Find.
But in the first place, the whole idea is really tired that if such and such is lacking in an artifact commander, we gotta give them an artifact commander. There are tons of Legendaries in this game, and not all of them have to interact with artifacts. Besides, just having something that interacts with artifacts doesn't make a color combination suddenly fresh and new. It's a pointless exercise.
I could point to a lot of blue cards outside of mirrodin/mirrodin/shards that have artifact synergy. I could also point to a decent number of red cards that do the same. White, I can't, nor green, nor black. You could probably argue white as #3 in artifact synergy, but he asked for another artifact synergy RW commander when (1) we already have 2, and (2) the effects he mentioned scale badly into EDH. I mean hell, we already DID get a cranial plating commander and it's awful.
I do agree that simply having synergy with something we haven't gotten before doesn't necessary equal something fresh and new. Just like Akiri, even if jor didn't exist, would have added very little to the boros landscape. Her setup (include a lot of artifacts) might be different, but the payoff (smash face harder!) is not. You might build her anyway, because presumably the deck might look different than other boros decks, but I doubt it'd be all that different to play since your payoff is the same as many other boros legends. Sure, Adriana rewards different things than jor who rewards different things than brion, but they all ultimately give you the same thing - dealing a bunch of face damage. What we need in boros is something with a different payoff - a payoff that is more than just "deal damage to players".
And guess what? All creatures attack. If you don't want to attack, you don't have to play a creature. All Ramirez DePietro does is attack, but he's terrible. So go ahead and play Nicol Bolas, don't cast him, and storm off. But if you want to attack, you have to play a creature, and having a creature who attacks is great when it doesn't suck horribly. So if you want to attack and not suck, one of your options is Boros.
Want to do something else, play different colors.
I don't even know what you're trying to say here. Every color can attack, but most of them do something else, boros included (when it's not being legendary at least).
We're all playing commander, so we're all playing a creature in the command slot. Often times we'll attack with them too. But most of them do something besides just be a body to attack with. Sure, Glissa the Traitor is great at attacking but that's not why anyone plays her. They play her because recurring artifacts is a cool payoff (and to a lesser extent because killing enemy creatures is a cool condition). And between the BG commanders there are a wide range of interesting payoffs and conditions.
RW commanders have a very, very narrow band of payoffs - almost exclusively dealing more damage to players, with the exceptions of the ones that suck. No one ever says "don't like recurring artifacts? Then don't play GB!" Because you can play GB if you like +1/+1 counters, making enemies sac creatures, recurring creatures yourself, deal damage to opponents, make enemies discard cards, exile cards from graves, draw cards, gain life, gain control of enemy creatures, or kill damaged enemies. There are SO many great options for GB.
RW has "deal damage to players" and that's aboooouuuuut it. And you're saying "if you don't like that, play another color?" Screw that, how about they give Boros more than ONE thing to do for god's sake? We've seen loads of cool boros effects, in both flavor and mechanics, yet the legends continue to suck and/or do nothing new.
I think this does illustrate why it's so disheartening to see crap commanders for boros in the precons. Avacyn is quite mediocre in commander but she's quite good in standard. In order to print cards that are good in commander but won't affect standard, they usually need to cost too much, have an ability that necessitates building around them, or scales specifically for multiplayer. Commander is their opportunity to print something really cool for commander that doesn't mess with other constructed formats, and they take that opportunity to give us anya, merciless angel? Blerg.
You know, almost every Legend, Planeswalker, or really any mythic gets mixed reactions. Some people slot them right in, some people say they're terrible. But does ANYONE think last year's Boros commanders were good? I don't think I've seen a single positive thing about them, I truly cannot imagine how they got through.
Re Avacyn: Just spent an hour trying to draft a control list. Low cost hatebears and utility creatures plus Sunforger makes for a decent early-mid game. Kiki-Resto, PW ultimates, or even just Boros smash are decent finishers. This could be a decent control deck, and it could be fun and casual too if you used niche cards like Deflecting Palm or Comeuppance.
I second that. Avacyn 2.0 is definitely different from the mold that Dirk is describing. The payoff there is that you protect your creatures, or you can sweep opponents creatures. She just also happens to be good at attacking.
Also, Kalemne isn't a bad general at all. I think people should realize that not every general is Rafiq, and a 3/3 Double Strike for 4 mana is actually a pretty decent deal. Nothing new certainly, but I can name a lot of color combinations where I wish there were an attacker as efficient as that.
I second that. Avacyn 2.0 is definitely different from the mold that Dirk is describing. The payoff there is that you protect your creatures, or you can sweep opponents creatures. She just also happens to be good at attacking.
Also, Kalemne isn't a bad general at all. I think people should realize that not every general is Rafiq, and a 3/3 Double Strike for 4 mana is actually a pretty decent deal. Nothing new certainly, but I can name a lot of color combinations where I wish there were an attacker as efficient as that.
I'll concede that avacyn 2.0 is a step in the right direction. That said, she's still pretty bad in commander, not least because both of her effects are significantly weaker when they're telegraphed from the command zone. While recent standard RW commanders haven't been great, Depala, Avacyn, and Munda are all at least interesting. I can't complain about them too much - eventually they might make one that synergizes with something that actually, y'know, exists.
My biggest beef is with the commander-specific products, where they have no one to appease except commander players, and no risk of impacting other formats unless they do something insane, and yet the STILL make boring garbage.
If they printed rafiq in RW as a commander, I'd hate it just as much as I hate kalemne and anya and akiri and bruse. Until they make a decent boros commander who's payoff something more interesting than "BEAT FACE" I will not be interested, no matter how powerful it is.
The argument "why not just play Aurelia or Gisela" is true, but a bad reason to call Boros bad. You could say the same thing about nearly every color combination. Why not just play Lyzolda? Why not just play Meren? There will always be the S tier Commanders but I assume we play different Commanders for diversity, yes? It seems most agree there is diversity, just that it sucks. So the complaint isn't power level, or diversity, but having power level distributed among the diversity. I don't disagree, I just think that's how Magic is. There will always be cards that are similar, different, weak, strong. Boros has interesting cards so pick a Commander and have fun with what Boros has to offer.
If I was in charge of printing a Boros legend, I would put Commune with Lava on a stick. Maybe it would read like Prossh, exile cards for the amount of mana spent to cast it. Exile card advantage will always be my favorite mechanic.
The boros problem is that you can't choose a boros commander for diversity. They all play so similarly that the more powerful tend to push out the others and even when you do choose to play a less powerful general it's so similar to playing a power house that it doesn't make too much of a difference because the deck either ignores the general or plays the same.
[The fact that there is so much that boros has to offer that is completely unrepresented in legendary form is a problem. There aren't even any token producing RW legendaries and red and white both make lot's of tokens.
Diversity that sucks isn't diversity.
this...
Either you ignore your general all together, or you end up building the same stock Aurelia deck as everyone eluse, just put Tajic at the helm instead. In the other colors there are options of Play. Simic can play Draw-Go with Rashmi, Aggro with Eldric, combo with Ezuri, VOltron with Kaseto... Orzhov can go Aggro with Tymna, Voltron with Karlov, Control with Ghost Dad. Gruul can go tokens, combo, or even control (Ruric Thar with a modified Zo-zu deck). They have generals that fit multiple play styles... Boros... not so much. I have never been more uninspired than when I look at Boros Generals...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I like this idea. Could use Basandra in such a list, especially if you threw in stuff that punished people for not attacking / made it hard to attack you
eg angel's trumpetghostly prison
Actually built a Jor Kadeen infect deck that was brutal. It is a legit way to get Boros aggro to work.
Jor Kadeen with a lot of artifact mana, a trusty token producer, and MLD is fine too. No idea why people hate on MLD if it is immediately followed by a win. If people are okay with someone magically producing two cards from their deck that automatically win (a la combo), then ease up on someone playing Armageddon when they have a good board state.
Tajic, Blade of the Legion swarming with soldier tribal has worked well for me to. Also, pretty easy to search up Worldslayer in these colors and put it on your indestructible general. Also, he's a 7/7 quite easily, and yes it's a typical Boros attack trigger, but it's a pretty effective one.
As far as card advantage, yeah, dumping your hand and then waiting for that good card can suck, but Boros works fine as a reactive wait and see deck. I've played plenty of games where I keep board wipes and fogs in hand while I gather the cards I need and then take out the last player.
There's lots of ways to build a boros deck, the problem is that the commanders don't really support any of them. I play commander because I like having a commander that drives deck construction, not because I want to play a RW control deck with an aggro commander.
In addition to Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer, I think Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas is underappreciated. Even if you completely ignore the experience mechanic which makes an early-game commander scale into the late game, its CMC of 4 is extremely relevant on a (permanent) creature with so much damage potential.
A lot of the Kalemne hate comes from the inherent antagonism of her two abilities: Usually you don't have many creature cards in a Voltron deck other than ETB triggers (e.g., Stoneforge Mystic) and hatebears, possibly Gisela, Blade of Goldnight if you can afford her. But the entire reason you're getting more experience counters pushes you to Voltron. Plus, "creatures with CMC 5 or greater" isn't really a RW thing. They can swing that way, but usually with green's help to actually cast them or some means of cheating them into play.
The main thing about Kalemne is that you really don't have to play her as voltron *or* as stompy. She scales so well with double strike that just getting one or two experience counters over the course of the whole game is enough to make her a beast. You can play a primary aggro strategy with voltron backup and still do just fine with her. Double strike means that she doesn't need much voltron support to become a beast, and she doesn't need any of first strike, double strike, or vigilance from equipment.
And that's another reason she gets hate. Everyone who doesn't have her right in front of them forgets she has double strike. "3/3 for 4 mana = BAD!" is so ingrained in us that you forget you're dealing with six damage (and all power boosts are doubled). Yeah, a decent-size Mutilate, Earthquake, or Black Sun's Zenith will off her, both those cards scale anyway.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
So we’re tired of Boros generals being big, dumb attackers, but the next idea in line is an equipment tutoring general? Like that would make everyone happy? You can understand how I just don’t get the argument.
The Boros colors suck, but Aurelia is too awesome for her own good. We don’t need Boros generals that are better, we need CA, so let’s brainstorm something that is better than just a good attacker because it also makes CA when it attacks. So forth.
I can maybe name 5-6 generals in this format that are as good at attacking, and you know, being creatures as what Boros has available. But for some reason, opinion is that this color combination will be incomplete as long as it lacks for a general like Azami, Lady of Scrolls.
For some colors like Izzet, Dimir, etc, I am always hopeful that a new attacking general will be released with the new sets. But if the attacking guilds are incomplete without generals like Sygg, River Cutthroat, where does that leave us? If players are still unsatisfied with Boros, expectations must be just way too high.
I hear ya. When I want to win through combat and attacking with creatures, I go Boros. I wouldn't even mind seeing something for more of a low to the ground aggro strategy like Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch. That said, I do think there is plenty of design space for other types of Boros commanders which are totally on theme.
Equipment itself involves attacking. There are very few equipments that still contribute their fullest (Illusionist's Bracers, etc) when your guy is standing back untapped. Not to mention, the most widely played Equipment in the format involve on damage triggers - Swords, Jitte, etc
If people want to do something other than attack, there are plenty of guilds to do that with. Boros doesn't have to be another one of them.
I think the motivation for an equipment-focused commander is less about not being involved in combat, and more about not being simply "deal more damage".
I mean, let's look at boros' legendaries.
Adriana - deal more damage when you attack.
agrus kos - deal more damage when you attack.
anax and cymede - deal more damage when you attack.
anya, merciless angel - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks.
aurelia, the warleader - deal more damage when you attack (also get more attack/damage triggers, which is part of why she's the best boros commander)
Basandra, battle seraph - totally original and cool, but horrible.
brion stoutarm - deal more damage (at least you don't have to attack?)
depala, pilot examplar - totally original and cool, but horrible.
gisela, blade of goldlight - deal more damage
iroas, god of victory - be better at attacking
jor kadeen, the prevailer - deal more damage when you attack
kalemne, disciple of iroas - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks
munda, ambush leader - totally original and cool, but horrible.
razia, boros archangel - totally original and cool, but horrible.
tajic, blade of the legion - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks
Akiri, line slinger - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks
bruse tarl - deal more damage when you attack
So we can see that, thus far, every single boros commander falls into one of 2 categories:
those that deal damage (to players only, unless they block)
those that suck
That's your problem in a nutshell. Basically all the commanders that aren't just there to deal damage are garbage - sure, Aurelia gets more attack triggers, the double strikers can trigger swords/jitte twice, tajic works ok with board wipes, gisela has synergy with burn - but their core functionality is basically just "deal more damage to players", which is (1) horrible in a format with 120 enemy life, and (2) boooooooring.
Tutoring equipment a la SFM, drawing equipment a la depala, equipping equipment a la auriok windwalker, reducing equip costs a la puresteel paladin, doing something (besides deal damage to a player) when you play an equipment also a la puresteel paladin, providing non-PT bonuses to equipped creatures a la stonehaven outfitter, anything along those lines would give us something really cool and original for RW that doesn't ONLY involve dealing damage to players in a 40 life multiplayer format. Equipment is a good way to give RW card advantage/tutoring/mana/etc without breaking the color pie. And sure, a lot of equipment only benefits attacking, but there's a lot of equipment and players could surely find cool ways to use it besides just beating down.
I don't like equipment-zur too much because I do suspect it'd be very linear.
Just for lulz, here's my current dream-commander for boros:
________________________________________
Sir Boros, the Sweetness 2RW
Legendary Creature - Human Knight
When ~ enters the battlefield, Search your library for an equipment card and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library. 3: attach target equipment to target creature. (could be changed to "equipment you control"/"creature you control" to avoid certain shenanigans if he's a little too much fun with pariah's shield or whatever)
first strike
_________________________________(2/2)__
I think there is some design space that no one has discussed yet. So Boros is about combat but its also about organized combat with a flair for zealotry. I think of a couple of potential ideas based on that alone that have nothing to do with YOUR combat step.
XRW: Prevent the next X damage that would be dealt to you this turn. If damage is prevented this way, you may have XXXXX, Shield Mage deals that much damage to target creature.
Whenever an opponent is dealt non-combat damage by a source you control, you may pay 1. If you do choose one-
Creatures you control get +1/+1 and Haste until end of turn.
Create a 1/1 Red and White Soldier creature token with Haste.
0/3
I know I made them, so I'm a little bias, but I love all of them. I would want to build a deck with all of them and I feel like they pretty accurately capture Red and White, still maintain a kind of combat orientation, and yet still do something completely different.
I just wanted to do something that wasn't just the expected stuff. I feel like Equipment synergy is what Jor Kadeen and Akiri already do. I mean, yeah sure it says "Artifacts" but let's be real, on a combat based on commander what kind of artifacts do you think you're probably using? Equipment. The ones I created were an attempt to deviate as far from "Suit up and attack" as possible while still granting a distinct advantage in the combat step.
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
I like all those designs too. Boros has a lot of good non-beatdown effects that wouldn't make as much sense anywhere else. So far they've all stayed away from the command zone, though.
After thinking on how to make a decent RW legend, I think a creature with both a modified Deflecting Palm and Ride Down as its abilities would work. I keep picturing a Lord atop a horse wading through battle protecting and directing as he went.
Something like:
Epic Battlemage Rider 2RW
Legendary Creature-> Knight
1RW: Deflecting Palm text that uses 'you or a creature you control' instead of just 'you.'
RW: Ride Down
3/3
This gives us a legend that can both protect you/your board and play some politics with the Ride Down ability to target any blocking creature.
I also toyed with making him a Samurai with Bushido, which allows for a Samurai deck and Bushido would work with the Ride Down ability. Or have him grant Flanking to your creatures and dropping the Samurai influence.
And that's another reason she gets hate. Everyone who doesn't have her right in front of them forgets she has double strike. "3/3 for 4 mana = BAD!" is so ingrained in us that you forget you're dealing with six damage (and all power boosts are doubled). Yeah, a decent-size Mutilate, Earthquake, or Black Sun's Zenith will off her, both those cards scale anyway.
Thank you. I'm glad someone gets it. So many players are focused on their big splashy spells and building to infinite combos that they forget that Commander Damage is a thing. I feel bad about it sometimes, because in many games, I have to aim Kalemne at one player at a time.
I made a Kalemne deck,and I love using her as my commander. I made my deck have a higher curve to make sure she gets experience counters. It's alot of soldiers(Odric, Lunarch Marshal is stupidly awesome in commander.),some giants and Angels. Lots of buff effects, indestructiblity(front line medic,Bastion protector, and Iroas mean you can keep attacking into just about anything.), and board wipes. People tend to underestimate how quickly she can take someone.(my play group knows to fear her nowdays.) She comes out earlier, and scales as the game continues. Commander damage is definitely a solid win condition. I still have the two Boss Angels in my deck, but I'd rather have a commander that has prescence thru out the game than one that comes down later. If Aurelia comes out, she just means Kalemne got to kill two people in the same turn heh. Gisela just feels like a win more card since I usually are overkilling my foes with commander damage anyways.
While the deck is red while, it definitely favors the white side. I did this so I can use Nyxthos to ramp up to the bigger stuff faster. (along with Temple of the false god.) Urza's sunglasses filter the white mana into red so you can basically Nyxthos for whatever is in your hand. I usually can cast all the top end without too much grief and equip my gear. I have alot of fun with this deck, it's probably my deck with the best win % of the ones I've made.
I'd argue that the problem is not Boros, who, as demonstrated, have a good number of things to work with that would be lovely in the command zone. The problem is WotC seem to believe we want same thing over and over again. Then again, as pointed out, Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas was the closest thing to innovation that WotC made for Boros recently (and did a pretty good job if you ask me) and a good portion of the community hated her out.
I'd argue that the problem is not Boros, who, as demonstrated, have a good number of things to work with that would be lovely in the command zone. The problem is WotC seem to believe we want same thing over and over again. Then again, as pointed out, Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas was the closest thing to innovation that WotC made for Boros recently (and did a pretty good job if you ask me) and a good portion of the community hated her out.
I think it is because her deck was by and far teh absolute weakest... and she is just so much weaker than other generals. Ezuri is straight viscious and can end up doing the aggro job better than Kalemne. Meren is right now one of the better commanders in general. Mizzix can get straight bonkers (power Sink is an evil card). And Daxos can handle her pretty easy due to his colors (removal central) and pillowfort cards. On top of that, she has one of the worst methods to gain XP counters. Meren was stupid easy (just use Sakura Tribe Elder), Daxos is easy (just CAST an enchantment. Doesnt even matter if it was countered), Ezuri is one of the easiest (mana dorks for days), and Mizzix while harder to get above 4 without lots of X cost spells, provided SO MUCH value with each XP counter that you dont need more than 4. With Kalemne, just getting 2 XP counters is hard unless you designed your deck around it, but which leaves you open at the beginning of the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
From the discussion on Kraum, it seems like a lot of players just don’t care about the body size. Something could be a 2/2, or a 7/7 flying, haste, and that certain set of players would read the card exactly the same way. No one ever wins by combat, so it’s pointless, right? There’s another class of players that basically just ignore that their general is even there. As in, they will literally pass with mana up rather than casting something like Angus Mackenzie. Maybe they figure that close to 100% of the time somebody is holding a Wrath in hand.
I just think those players shouldn’t be playing Boros. Nothing wrong with the generals offered, just you will be disappointed with the colors if your preferred way to win is to just outvalue the table with ramp, draw and 7-drops. For that, there is every stock UGx deck ever built.
From the discussion on Kraum, it seems like a lot of players just don’t care about the body size. Something could be a 2/2, or a 7/7 flying, haste, and that certain set of players would read the card exactly the same way. No one ever wins by combat, so it’s pointless, right? There’s another class of players that basically just ignore that their general is even there. As in, they will literally pass with mana up rather than casting something like Angus Mackenzie. Maybe they figure that close to 100% of the time somebody is holding a Wrath in hand.
I just think those players shouldn’t be playing Boros. Nothing wrong with the generals offered, just you will be disappointed with the colors if your preferred way to win is to just outvalue the table with ramp, draw and 7-drops. For that, there is every stock UGx deck ever built.
Kraum is Izzet. Izzet isn't really overflowing with "all this does is beatdown" commanders - most of them have cool, powerful abilities that scale well in commander. Kraum (1) does have a pretty decent CA ability, and (2) is not in a color that's overwhelmed by beatdown commanders. If you want to beat down with Izzet, Kraum isn't the only game in town, but he's arguably the best. So most likely anyone who's considering running Kraum will care about the p/t. If you want to play izzet and you don't want to beat down, there are lots of other ways to play the color combo. Not so for boros.
For Boros commanders, I'm sure the people who have interest in Akiri or whatever DO care about p/t. I mean, it does have a big impact on her power. My complaint, and I can't speak for everyone, is that I wouldn't like Akiri if she were a 10/10 for 2. And not because I don't think commander damage is viable, or because I assume she'll always get wiped. I don't care about her p/t because no matter how powerful she may or may not be, she is BORING. If a commander is boring, I don't care how good they are.
And don't get me wrong - boros is definitely beatdown colors and they SHOULD have a lot of beatdown commanders, even if they're boring. But they ought to have at least ONE non-beatdown commander that doesn't suck, right? Out of eighteen? I don't think that's too much to ask.
And for the record, I have zero interest in ramp + bomb decks.
I think one of the ways to build something original but keeping with the spirit of Boros is Sunforger.
something like this: RW
Corporal Hammer
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier RW: Play a White or Red spell from your hand with converted mana cost 4 or less and cast that card without paying its mana cost. You may play spells as if they had flash.
Boring is highly subjective. If I am bored of some style of deck, I might play some beatdown. Boros is there for me. And if I'm bored of beatdown, I will probably play something other than Boros. Those colors are there for me. If I am bored of playing beatdown as Boros, sounds like a first world problem.
The Izzet example, Kraum is decent for beatdown, but he's still behind what a real combat oriented guild like Boros would offer. But if you want to play beatdown as Izzet, the options were pretty bad up to the point of Shu Yun. You had to beat down with Niv-Mizzet. Same thing with Boros and generals that make some CA. If you want CA out of these colors, you have to play something like Depala, Munda, or Alesha. Yes, they are worse than Nin, the Pain Artist at CA. So is everything else. But that is Izzet, and this is Boros.
For no color combination other than Boros do people gripe this much that it doesn't do enough things outside its color identity.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Lyzolda is your "S-tier" (god I hate the idea that there's "tiers" of commanders like we're playing street fighter or something) BR commander? Wut?
Anyway, the problem is simple. Boros commanders fit into one of two camps:
1) those who's main purpose is to deal damage to players in a format where that purpose is very ineffective (and more importantly, boring)
AND
2) those who suck horribly
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The boros problem is that you can't choose a boros commander for diversity. They all play so similarly that the more powerful tend to push out the others and even when you do choose to play a less powerful general it's so similar to playing a power house that it doesn't make too much of a difference because the deck either ignores the general or plays the same.
The fact that there is so much that boros has to offer that is completely unrepresented in legendary form is a problem. There aren't even any token producing RW legendaries and red and white both make lot's of tokens.
Diversity that sucks isn't diversity.
I personally like tiers, but I respect and understand those who don't. Not trying to shoe-horn that idea in, but this discussion started to feel like a tier discussion. ie. Aurelia and Gisela are god tier, why play Iroas? To that I say, play them for fun! Many will disagree, just clarifying why I brought up tiers. (unrelated note: Lyzolda is a pretty strong combo general, it's one-track minded and I hate it)
I actually embarked on the "make a good Boros deck" journey a few years ago. It wasn't the greatest but I did win games often enough, and I did it with combat damage. "Boros smash" certainly sounds boring on paper, but I had fun. To each their own. On your second point, I may have dismissed this too readily. You say it's not that there are Boros generals that suck, it's that the only Boros generals that aren't "Boros smash" suck. You're right, that's a good point. I can see a case being made for Archangel Avacyn though as a control deck.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
I think this does illustrate why it's so disheartening to see crap commanders for boros in the precons. Avacyn is quite mediocre in commander but she's quite good in standard. In order to print cards that are good in commander but won't affect standard, they usually need to cost too much, have an ability that necessitates building around them, or scales specifically for multiplayer. Commander is their opportunity to print something really cool for commander that doesn't mess with other constructed formats, and they take that opportunity to give us anya, merciless angel? Blerg.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Most of the artifact cards in general got printed either in Mirrodin 1, Shards of Alara, or Mirrodin 2. So, that really doesn't prove White has no artifact interaction, since cards like Sanctum Gargoyle and Razor Hippogriff exist. There was even interaction in Magic's heritage, with cards like Argivian Find.
But in the first place, the whole idea is really tired that if such and such is lacking in an artifact commander, we gotta give them an artifact commander. There are tons of Legendaries in this game, and not all of them have to interact with artifacts. Besides, just having something that interacts with artifacts doesn't make a color combination suddenly fresh and new. It's a pointless exercise.
And guess what? All creatures attack. If you don't want to attack, you don't have to play a creature. All Ramirez DePietro does is attack, but he's terrible. So go ahead and play Nicol Bolas, don't cast him, and storm off. But if you want to attack, you have to play a creature, and having a creature who attacks is great when it doesn't suck horribly. So if you want to attack and not suck, one of your options is Boros.
Want to do something else, play different colors.
Re Avacyn: Just spent an hour trying to draft a control list. Low cost hatebears and utility creatures plus Sunforger makes for a decent early-mid game. Kiki-Resto, PW ultimates, or even just Boros smash are decent finishers. This could be a decent control deck, and it could be fun and casual too if you used niche cards like Deflecting Palm or Comeuppance.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
I could point to a lot of blue cards outside of mirrodin/mirrodin/shards that have artifact synergy. I could also point to a decent number of red cards that do the same. White, I can't, nor green, nor black. You could probably argue white as #3 in artifact synergy, but he asked for another artifact synergy RW commander when (1) we already have 2, and (2) the effects he mentioned scale badly into EDH. I mean hell, we already DID get a cranial plating commander and it's awful.
I do agree that simply having synergy with something we haven't gotten before doesn't necessary equal something fresh and new. Just like Akiri, even if jor didn't exist, would have added very little to the boros landscape. Her setup (include a lot of artifacts) might be different, but the payoff (smash face harder!) is not. You might build her anyway, because presumably the deck might look different than other boros decks, but I doubt it'd be all that different to play since your payoff is the same as many other boros legends. Sure, Adriana rewards different things than jor who rewards different things than brion, but they all ultimately give you the same thing - dealing a bunch of face damage. What we need in boros is something with a different payoff - a payoff that is more than just "deal damage to players".
I don't even know what you're trying to say here. Every color can attack, but most of them do something else, boros included (when it's not being legendary at least).
We're all playing commander, so we're all playing a creature in the command slot. Often times we'll attack with them too. But most of them do something besides just be a body to attack with. Sure, Glissa the Traitor is great at attacking but that's not why anyone plays her. They play her because recurring artifacts is a cool payoff (and to a lesser extent because killing enemy creatures is a cool condition). And between the BG commanders there are a wide range of interesting payoffs and conditions.
RW commanders have a very, very narrow band of payoffs - almost exclusively dealing more damage to players, with the exceptions of the ones that suck. No one ever says "don't like recurring artifacts? Then don't play GB!" Because you can play GB if you like +1/+1 counters, making enemies sac creatures, recurring creatures yourself, deal damage to opponents, make enemies discard cards, exile cards from graves, draw cards, gain life, gain control of enemy creatures, or kill damaged enemies. There are SO many great options for GB.
RW has "deal damage to players" and that's aboooouuuuut it. And you're saying "if you don't like that, play another color?" Screw that, how about they give Boros more than ONE thing to do for god's sake? We've seen loads of cool boros effects, in both flavor and mechanics, yet the legends continue to suck and/or do nothing new.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I second that. Avacyn 2.0 is definitely different from the mold that Dirk is describing. The payoff there is that you protect your creatures, or you can sweep opponents creatures. She just also happens to be good at attacking.
Also, Kalemne isn't a bad general at all. I think people should realize that not every general is Rafiq, and a 3/3 Double Strike for 4 mana is actually a pretty decent deal. Nothing new certainly, but I can name a lot of color combinations where I wish there were an attacker as efficient as that.
My biggest beef is with the commander-specific products, where they have no one to appease except commander players, and no risk of impacting other formats unless they do something insane, and yet the STILL make boring garbage.
If they printed rafiq in RW as a commander, I'd hate it just as much as I hate kalemne and anya and akiri and bruse. Until they make a decent boros commander who's payoff something more interesting than "BEAT FACE" I will not be interested, no matter how powerful it is.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
this...
Either you ignore your general all together, or you end up building the same stock Aurelia deck as everyone eluse, just put Tajic at the helm instead. In the other colors there are options of Play. Simic can play Draw-Go with Rashmi, Aggro with Eldric, combo with Ezuri, VOltron with Kaseto... Orzhov can go Aggro with Tymna, Voltron with Karlov, Control with Ghost Dad. Gruul can go tokens, combo, or even control (Ruric Thar with a modified Zo-zu deck). They have generals that fit multiple play styles... Boros... not so much. I have never been more uninspired than when I look at Boros Generals...
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I like this idea. Could use Basandra in such a list, especially if you threw in stuff that punished people for not attacking / made it hard to attack you
eg angel's trumpet ghostly prison
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Jor Kadeen with a lot of artifact mana, a trusty token producer, and MLD is fine too. No idea why people hate on MLD if it is immediately followed by a win. If people are okay with someone magically producing two cards from their deck that automatically win (a la combo), then ease up on someone playing Armageddon when they have a good board state.
Tajic, Blade of the Legion swarming with soldier tribal has worked well for me to. Also, pretty easy to search up Worldslayer in these colors and put it on your indestructible general. Also, he's a 7/7 quite easily, and yes it's a typical Boros attack trigger, but it's a pretty effective one.
As far as card advantage, yeah, dumping your hand and then waiting for that good card can suck, but Boros works fine as a reactive wait and see deck. I've played plenty of games where I keep board wipes and fogs in hand while I gather the cards I need and then take out the last player.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
And that's another reason she gets hate. Everyone who doesn't have her right in front of them forgets she has double strike. "3/3 for 4 mana = BAD!" is so ingrained in us that you forget you're dealing with six damage (and all power boosts are doubled). Yeah, a decent-size Mutilate, Earthquake, or Black Sun's Zenith will off her, both those cards scale anyway.
It also means you can benefit more from swords and Curse of Stalked Prey.
On phasing:
I hear ya. When I want to win through combat and attacking with creatures, I go Boros. I wouldn't even mind seeing something for more of a low to the ground aggro strategy like Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch. That said, I do think there is plenty of design space for other types of Boros commanders which are totally on theme.
I think there is some design space that no one has discussed yet. So Boros is about combat but its also about organized combat with a flair for zealotry. I think of a couple of potential ideas based on that alone that have nothing to do with YOUR combat step.
Based on Boros Battleshaper:
XXXXXX, Avatar of War 4RRWW
Legendary Creature - Avatar
Vigilance, First Strike
Other creatures you control have Vigiliance and First Strike.
Creatures must attack each combat if able.
During your opponent's combat step, you choose up to one target creature that player controls. You decide how that creature attacks this turn.
3/7
Based on Deflecting Palm, Divine Deflection, Boros Fury-Shield etc.
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
XRW: Prevent the next X damage that would be dealt to you this turn. If damage is prevented this way, you may have XXXXX, Shield Mage deals that much damage to target creature.
2/3
Based on Leyline of Lightning, Blaze Commando, Balefire Liege, Chandra's Phoenix, Chandra's Spitfire
XXXXX, Standard Barer 2RW
Legendary Creature - Minotaur Soldier
Prowess
Whenever an opponent is dealt non-combat damage by a source you control, you may pay 1. If you do choose one-
0/3
I know I made them, so I'm a little bias, but I love all of them. I would want to build a deck with all of them and I feel like they pretty accurately capture Red and White, still maintain a kind of combat orientation, and yet still do something completely different.
I just wanted to do something that wasn't just the expected stuff. I feel like Equipment synergy is what Jor Kadeen and Akiri already do. I mean, yeah sure it says "Artifacts" but let's be real, on a combat based on commander what kind of artifacts do you think you're probably using? Equipment. The ones I created were an attempt to deviate as far from "Suit up and attack" as possible while still granting a distinct advantage in the combat step.
What do you guys think?
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
I like all those designs too. Boros has a lot of good non-beatdown effects that wouldn't make as much sense anywhere else. So far they've all stayed away from the command zone, though.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Something like:
Epic Battlemage Rider 2RW
Legendary Creature-> Knight
1RW: Deflecting Palm text that uses 'you or a creature you control' instead of just 'you.'
RW: Ride Down
3/3
This gives us a legend that can both protect you/your board and play some politics with the Ride Down ability to target any blocking creature.
I also toyed with making him a Samurai with Bushido, which allows for a Samurai deck and Bushido would work with the Ride Down ability. Or have him grant Flanking to your creatures and dropping the Samurai influence.
Thank you. I'm glad someone gets it. So many players are focused on their big splashy spells and building to infinite combos that they forget that Commander Damage is a thing. I feel bad about it sometimes, because in many games, I have to aim Kalemne at one player at a time.
While the deck is red while, it definitely favors the white side. I did this so I can use Nyxthos to ramp up to the bigger stuff faster. (along with Temple of the false god.) Urza's sunglasses filter the white mana into red so you can basically Nyxthos for whatever is in your hand. I usually can cast all the top end without too much grief and equip my gear. I have alot of fun with this deck, it's probably my deck with the best win % of the ones I've made.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
I think it is because her deck was by and far teh absolute weakest... and she is just so much weaker than other generals. Ezuri is straight viscious and can end up doing the aggro job better than Kalemne. Meren is right now one of the better commanders in general. Mizzix can get straight bonkers (power Sink is an evil card). And Daxos can handle her pretty easy due to his colors (removal central) and pillowfort cards. On top of that, she has one of the worst methods to gain XP counters. Meren was stupid easy (just use Sakura Tribe Elder), Daxos is easy (just CAST an enchantment. Doesnt even matter if it was countered), Ezuri is one of the easiest (mana dorks for days), and Mizzix while harder to get above 4 without lots of X cost spells, provided SO MUCH value with each XP counter that you dont need more than 4. With Kalemne, just getting 2 XP counters is hard unless you designed your deck around it, but which leaves you open at the beginning of the game.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I just think those players shouldn’t be playing Boros. Nothing wrong with the generals offered, just you will be disappointed with the colors if your preferred way to win is to just outvalue the table with ramp, draw and 7-drops. For that, there is every stock UGx deck ever built.
For Boros commanders, I'm sure the people who have interest in Akiri or whatever DO care about p/t. I mean, it does have a big impact on her power. My complaint, and I can't speak for everyone, is that I wouldn't like Akiri if she were a 10/10 for 2. And not because I don't think commander damage is viable, or because I assume she'll always get wiped. I don't care about her p/t because no matter how powerful she may or may not be, she is BORING. If a commander is boring, I don't care how good they are.
And don't get me wrong - boros is definitely beatdown colors and they SHOULD have a lot of beatdown commanders, even if they're boring. But they ought to have at least ONE non-beatdown commander that doesn't suck, right? Out of eighteen? I don't think that's too much to ask.
And for the record, I have zero interest in ramp + bomb decks.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
something like this:
RW
Corporal Hammer
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier
RW: Play a White or Red spell from your hand with converted mana cost 4 or less and cast that card without paying its mana cost. You may play spells as if they had flash.
2/2
The Izzet example, Kraum is decent for beatdown, but he's still behind what a real combat oriented guild like Boros would offer. But if you want to play beatdown as Izzet, the options were pretty bad up to the point of Shu Yun. You had to beat down with Niv-Mizzet. Same thing with Boros and generals that make some CA. If you want CA out of these colors, you have to play something like Depala, Munda, or Alesha. Yes, they are worse than Nin, the Pain Artist at CA. So is everything else. But that is Izzet, and this is Boros.
For no color combination other than Boros do people gripe this much that it doesn't do enough things outside its color identity.