Boros is fine, if you don't expect it be like the other colours. I used Iroas until recently when I changed to new Avacyn as a form of combo protection rather than a general, although she is strong enough to allow some beats.
The problem is that Boros COMMANDERS don't support any other strategy beyond attacking. Almost every other color has generals for multiple play styles. Boros either combat, equip combat, fling, or ignoring your general all together.
Well, show me a good Combo commander, and I'll show you a commander that either draws cards or is a combo piece.
Commanders are legendary creatures. What creatures do that other card types don't is attack. If you want to attack, you might use your commander more. If so, Boros is a good option for you. If you don't care about attacking at all, draw and tutor spells are what you want anyway. Most combo decks rarely if ever cast their general.
I have seen Nicol Bolas decks that would probably win close to 100% of the time vs decks that cast their general when able. And, no one ever gripes that Grixis is at a lack for good generals.
Ick, we'll probably get Jor Compleat since that troll loves infect. "See, now Boros can deal with the format more easily!"
Such a pessimist. ezuri got compleated and he didn't get infect.
Anyway I think I was clear that the problem is more about diversity than effectiveness?
Btw I don't get why people are saying "BR is just as bad!" BR has bladewing for dragon tribal, Exava for counter synergy, Grenzo for spitting dudes onto the field, Kaervek for...politics(?), Olivia for theft, Rakdos for an animar impersonator, plus malfegor, lyzolda, mogis...Of course they're not all amazing, but there's definitely a lot of variety. And Grenzo, olivia, and rakdos all seem pretty strong. I don't understand how this compares to boros. Plus black is so much more versatile of a color than white.
I have seen Nicol Bolas decks that would probably win close to 100% of the time vs decks that cast their general when able. And, no one ever gripes that Grixis is at a lack for good generals.
It's about variety, no just having a good general. Boros does one thing. Grixis has a plenty of generals that lead to different viable strategies. Boros has one viable strategy that isn't always viable.
You can play aggro with Thrax, punisher with Nekusar, artifacts with Mishra, self mill with Sedris.
Grixis has 13 possible generals (not counting the new Partners) and nearly as many different strategies supported by it's commanders.
The problem is that Boros COMMANDERS don't support any other strategy beyond attacking. Almost every other color has generals for multiple play styles. Boros either combat, equip combat, fling, or ignoring your general all together.
I agree, I think BR is better off, Kaervek, Mogis, Olivia all function as control/combo generals (I played Kaervek personally), Exava, Lyzolda, Tymaret, Grenzo, and new rakdos are aggro or counter usage. I also agree black is better than white generally, even if white has good exile and spot removal, any black deck has much greater consistency.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
You know who would have been an interesting Boros commander? Darien, King of Kjeldor. Turning damage into dudes would be interesting and could make for a cool Boros Control Deck (Take parts of Zo-Zu punisher decks, add some earthquake type effects, and white tax/removal and you have a interesting RW control with a General who supports it)... but alas.. he is Mono-W...
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Boros is fine, if you don't expect it be like the other colours. I used Iroas until recently when I changed to new Avacyn as a form of combo protection rather than a general, although she is strong enough to allow some beats.
The problem is that Boros COMMANDERS don't support any other strategy beyond attacking. Almost every other color has generals for multiple play styles. Boros either combat, equip combat, fling, or ignoring your general all together.
Well, show me a good Combo commander, and I'll show you a commander that either draws cards or is a combo piece.
Commanders are legendary creatures. What creatures do that other card types don't is attack. If you want to attack, you might use your commander more. If so, Boros is a good option for you. If you don't care about attacking at all, draw and tutor spells are what you want anyway. Most combo decks rarely if ever cast their general.
I have seen Nicol Bolas decks that would probably win close to 100% of the time vs decks that cast their general when able. And, no one ever gripes that Grixis is at a lack for good generals.
Gitrog Combo ONLY works with its general...
Selvala combo is built with her in mind.
Yidris Storm abuses his cascade triggers.
Meren decks are as good as they are because of Meren.
Mizzix Decks rely on Mizzix.
Leovold Wheels needs leovold to work.
Nekusar decks primary run on him.
Sharuum combo works off Sharuum..
Breya Combo depends on her as well...
In fact, many combo decks ride on their general...
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I play Tajic and many board wipes. My deck is mostly a control deck, trying to stop people from going off with a Sunforger package and makes use of a large number of equipment tutors to find Skullclamp or Sunforger with regularity. I like having a sturdy wall every game and I can't recall the last time I actually attacked with him.
Granted, I suppose I'm more interested in having fun than running the most winningest list. I'm less concerned about general diversity in R/W than I am with the lack of new options in the 99 when almost all R/W cards they print are OMG ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK and burn that doesn't kill titans. Burn Away was soooo close, but they made it 4R instead of 2RR. Graveyard hate is the one thing that Sunforger doesn't have any good options on.
I've said as much elsewhere: My actual commander is Sunforger.
Honestly, the problem with Boros (to me anyway) and these colors is a serious lack of disruption. It exists, in the form of land destruction, and I think you REALLY have to play that strategy in Boros in a Competitive meta, since land destruction is your best form of disruption versus combo decks. And, again, even in Casual, Boros tends to be quite linear in just attacking, but honestly thats what the colors offer. However, that being stated, they could make attacking/defending/lifelink etc more interesting and unique by combining elements of red and white together in more unique and flavorful yet effective ways.
Now we just have to wait 2-3 years for the sweet boros commanders to come rolling in!
Also, this is the first time Maro has answered my question, so double score.
SCHWEET! I appreciate that your threw in the inspiration cards mentioned in this thread. Hopefully they will take that directly to heart. I am extremely excited about this! I already have 2 Boros decks (Jor Kadeen and Aurelia) but am very excited about adding a 3rd as long as the general is as interesting as Vial Smasher was.
Honestly, the problem with Boros (to me anyway) and these colors is a serious lack of disruption. It exists, in the form of land destruction, and I think you REALLY have to play that strategy in Boros in a Competitive meta, since land destruction is your best form of disruption versus combo decks. And, again, even in Casual, Boros tends to be quite linear in just attacking, but honestly thats what the colors offer. However, that being stated, they could make attacking/defending/lifelink etc more interesting and unique by combining elements of red and white together in more unique and flavorful yet effective ways.
The problem is that "attacking different ways" has been done ad nasuem. I would go so far as to say that is all they've done. Heck, you could even put new Avacyn into that category because she can protect one attacker and the punish your opponent for blocking by finishing all their creatures off with her board wipe. Still making attacking interesting. The issue isn't that Wizards hasn't done exactly what you're suggesting. The problem is that it is ALL that they've done. Don't get me wrong, I love Aurelia and attacking. I do, but the question of this thread is "Why is that all we get?" especially when they've shown the colors to be so much more than just attacking.
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It is because that is what typically red and white is about: chaos, first strike, hate bears, burn, artifact and enchantment removal, land destruction, limited tutoring, looting, forking spells, mana doubling, exiling, graveyard control, some recursion, plenty of mass removal, token production, chant effects/fogs and whatever else I forgot lol. Still though, that is what red and white do as a general rule. Of course Wizards should expand upon, especially when it comes to disruption. Disruption is an essential element to Magic, and even more so when playing in a Competitive metagame. Boros needs more disruption if anything, so it can interact with the powerhouse colors of combo like Blue X whatever. I don't really care for colors going outside their limits in the game, because color splashing is an important element, so you can get more power and flexibility etc. And I can understand that when one chooses Boros, you choose that limitation. However, even still Wizards could do MUCH more to balance white and reds disruptive aspects so it just doesn't roll over and die to combo decks etc and has more options.
Now we just have to wait 2-3 years for the sweet boros commanders to come rolling in!
Also, this is the first time Maro has answered my question, so double score.
SCHWEET! I appreciate that your threw in the inspiration cards mentioned in this thread. Hopefully they will take that directly to heart. I am extremely excited about this! I already have 2 Boros decks (Jor Kadeen and Aurelia) but am very excited about adding a 3rd as long as the general is as interesting as Vial Smasher was.
Vial smasher? I would be so pissed if we got a boros vial smasher. My biggest complaint was that boros commanders only push face damage, which is all vial smasher does.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Well, show me a good Combo commander, and I'll show you a commander that either draws cards or is a combo piece.
Commanders are legendary creatures. What creatures do that other card types don't is attack. If you want to attack, you might use your commander more. If so, Boros is a good option for you. If you don't care about attacking at all, draw and tutor spells are what you want anyway. Most combo decks rarely if ever cast their general.
I have seen Nicol Bolas decks that would probably win close to 100% of the time vs decks that cast their general when able. And, no one ever gripes that Grixis is at a lack for good generals.
Whoa, even Boros-colored PWs are obsessed with the combat step.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Anyway I think I was clear that the problem is more about diversity than effectiveness?
Btw I don't get why people are saying "BR is just as bad!" BR has bladewing for dragon tribal, Exava for counter synergy, Grenzo for spitting dudes onto the field, Kaervek for...politics(?), Olivia for theft, Rakdos for an animar impersonator, plus malfegor, lyzolda, mogis...Of course they're not all amazing, but there's definitely a lot of variety. And Grenzo, olivia, and rakdos all seem pretty strong. I don't understand how this compares to boros. Plus black is so much more versatile of a color than white.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
It's about variety, no just having a good general. Boros does one thing. Grixis has a plenty of generals that lead to different viable strategies. Boros has one viable strategy that isn't always viable.
You can play aggro with Thrax, punisher with Nekusar, artifacts with Mishra, self mill with Sedris.
Grixis has 13 possible generals (not counting the new Partners) and nearly as many different strategies supported by it's commanders.
Aurelia, the Warleader tap abilities is a playstyle that doesn't fit under those.
Razia, Boros Archangel might also be able to get there without attacking.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Gitrog Combo ONLY works with its general...
Selvala combo is built with her in mind.
Yidris Storm abuses his cascade triggers.
Meren decks are as good as they are because of Meren.
Mizzix Decks rely on Mizzix.
Leovold Wheels needs leovold to work.
Nekusar decks primary run on him.
Sharuum combo works off Sharuum..
Breya Combo depends on her as well...
In fact, many combo decks ride on their general...
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Usually it's Inkmoth Nexus + Boros Charm + Sunforger or one of the several spell combos with Boros Reckoner. I attack with Stuffy Doll liberally and greatly enjoy resolving Master Warcraft.
Granted, I suppose I'm more interested in having fun than running the most winningest list. I'm less concerned about general diversity in R/W than I am with the lack of new options in the 99 when almost all R/W cards they print are OMG ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK and burn that doesn't kill titans. Burn Away was soooo close, but they made it 4R instead of 2RR. Graveyard hate is the one thing that Sunforger doesn't have any good options on.
I've said as much elsewhere: My actual commander is Sunforger.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
SCHWEET! I appreciate that your threw in the inspiration cards mentioned in this thread. Hopefully they will take that directly to heart. I am extremely excited about this! I already have 2 Boros decks (Jor Kadeen and Aurelia) but am very excited about adding a 3rd as long as the general is as interesting as Vial Smasher was.
The problem is that "attacking different ways" has been done ad nasuem. I would go so far as to say that is all they've done. Heck, you could even put new Avacyn into that category because she can protect one attacker and the punish your opponent for blocking by finishing all their creatures off with her board wipe. Still making attacking interesting. The issue isn't that Wizards hasn't done exactly what you're suggesting. The problem is that it is ALL that they've done. Don't get me wrong, I love Aurelia and attacking. I do, but the question of this thread is "Why is that all we get?" especially when they've shown the colors to be so much more than just attacking.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
I do appreciate the sentiment, though.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6