MTG Salvation

So, this couple, Kyanios and Tiro of Meletis intrigues me and I'm sure many others as well. I want to get opinions on what is the best ways to utilize their benefits to all players as well as to us. Most importantly is the fact that we get more out of their effect than our opponents since we always draw a card and are able to put a land into play if we have one available. Our opponents only get one or the other. Of course group hug will be a go to for them, however, we will have to mitigate what we give our opponents access to. Lets focus on what strategies can tie this altogether.

We always draw a card, which can allow us to use effects that trigger off of this, such as Chasm Skulker or Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind. Plus it is a Phyrexian Arena, (end of turn of course,) without the life loss. We get immediate value on our turn instead of waiting until next turn.

It allows landfall triggers to be relevant since it lets us play an additional land each turn. We have many options where this is concerned as well as punishing options such as Zo-Zu the Punisher and Tunnel Ignus.

Their size is a huge boon. 2/8 is absolutely amazing stats for a defensive style deck which this will mostly be if the hug route is pursued. What are some great effects that will have good synergy with their abilities? And if hug is the best option, what win conditions do they open up? I know they have Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa in their deck already and this could very well be a good way to go to close out games. It needs to be reliable however.

What are everyone's thoughts?

I'm going to modify my UWR stax hug deck and include green. I really believe that Kyanios and Tiro of Meletis will be great as a general for a Stax-Hug-MLD-Enchantment deck. The deck is already really good and adding some green and a huge defensive card drawing general will push it over the top.

The idea of a RGWU Landfall deck is really growing on me now. Setting yourself up to take the most advantage of symmetrical (and asymmetrical) shared draw and ramp effects could take you far, and should make for some very interesting games. And I love the idea of playing Omnath, Locus of Rage with Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper.

And don't forget Price of Progress and Sudden Impact.

I'm currently brewing a 'vomit card advantage' kind of build with them: take what they give and bolt it to overdrive - get and play ALL the cards. Specifically, playing a lot of scry effects (that also do something else to keep me alive, preferably), the cascade cards in colors, things like Rashmi, Eternities Crafter (cards that let me play even more cards) and slowly build up a defender tribe on the table. Win via Vent Sentinel/Azor's Elocutors/Felidar Sovereign/Helix Pinnacle/Laboratory Maniac or just a Fireball off my thirty-something lands. Add Propaganda effects/counters/removal/etc. as necessary.

Probably not the most competitive thing, but I'm pretty sure it'll be fun to pilot the madness.

Quote from luminum can »

The idea of a RGWU Landfall deck is really growing on me now. Setting yourself up to take the most advantage of symmetrical (and asymmetrical) shared draw and ramp effects could take you far, and should make for some very interesting games. And I love the idea of playing Omnath, Locus of Rage with Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper.

This was my thought as well. I have tried a couple times to make a temur landfall deck but was never satisfied due to the lack of commander synergy. Now there's a general who has blue and let's you play an extra land each turn. I'm drawing a blank on a bunch of cards options but Roil Elemental and Karametra, God of Harvests come to mind as some additional non-Gruul landfall cards. the usual suspects would all be included some well of course.

Well, I'd say Alhammarret's Archive and Thought Reflection are good ideas and Consecrated Sphinx, obviously.

Abundance lets you get that land to put into play if you need it.

As I've pointed out in another thread, I'm upgrading my Judo-style Ruhan of the Fomori for the on-theme "Guardians of Meletis"... so that opens up a whole new color for the deck! I'm very excited for this card, and there are certainly possibilities outside of the obvious group-hug archetype.

If you want to get cute/tricksy I've long had a fondness for cards like Illusionist's Gambit and Mirror Match, which I suppose work well when building up a table of beefed-up decks and encouraging them to fight each other, but not you. Lots of "rattlesnake" effects and fogs/combat tricks to make you an unappealing target.

I think I'm most interested in pursuing a Landfall + "Seismic Swans" route. You're in color for Seismic Assault, Borborygmos Enraged, and Swans of Bryn Argoll.

Quote from luminum can »

If you want to get cute/tricksy I've long had a fondness for cards like Illusionist's Gambit and Mirror Match, which I suppose work well when building up a table of beefed-up decks and encouraging them to fight each other, but not you. Lots of "rattlesnake" effects and fogs/combat tricks to make you an unappealing target.

I've been thinking about cards like this as well! Domineering Will and Master Warcraft also come to mind. Are there any other good ones likes this? I love the idea of manipulating and screwing with the combat step to keep yourself out of harm's way while the others duke it out.

I think I'll try a mix of politics (with cards like Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Gahiji, Honored One to encourage people to attack each other) and landfall for my own win condition with them. Classic group hug isn't really my thing, but turning it into something that actually is playing to win sounds interesting.

Quote from Zordrath »

Quote from luminum can »

If you want to get cute/tricksy I've long had a fondness for cards like Illusionist's Gambit and Mirror Match, which I suppose work well when building up a table of beefed-up decks and encouraging them to fight each other, but not you. Lots of "rattlesnake" effects and fogs/combat tricks to make you an unappealing target.

I've been thinking about cards like this as well! Domineering Will and Master Warcraft also come to mind. Are there any other good ones likes this? I love the idea of manipulating and screwing with the combat step to keep yourself out of harm's way while the others duke it out.

I think I'll try a mix of politics (with cards like Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Gahiji, Honored One to encourage people to attack each other) and landfall for my own win condition with them. Classic group hug isn't really my thing, but turning it into something that actually is playing to win sounds interesting.

This is my version of the "Guardians of Meletis." I call it Judo, but rattlesnake describes it well, as well. Have a look at this list: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/676484-ruhan-aikido-master

hmmm Possessed Portal with some way to break the effect like Abundance can be quite funny to Stax them out. Samething with stuff like, Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar, Horn of Greed. Also might be easy to get an active Archmage Ascension because your general guarantees an extra draw. Maybe even dumbstuff like Parallel Thoughts can be worth while in that type of shell.

Some random jank like donating Impending Disaster while having Sacred Ground can be funny as hell when you are giving people lands.

Quote from Tanion »

hmmm Possessed Portal with some way to break the effect like Abundance can be quite funny to Stax them out. Samething with stuff like Uba Mask, Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar, Horn of Greed. Also might be easy to get an active Archmage Ascension because your general guarantees an extra draw. Maybe even dumbstuff like Parallel Thoughts can be worth while in that type of shell.

Some random jank like donating Impending Disaster while having Sacred Ground can be funny as hell when you are giving people lands.

They don't work with Archmage ascension. Both abilities trigger on endstep, and ascension will not trigger if you haven't already drawn 2 cards by then. Also uba mask seems bad with them unless you have just a ton of instants since it sorta negates your draw usually.

Some other landfally cards we wouldn't normally get: coiling oracle , urban evolution, emeria Shepherd, knight of the reliquary, Terra eternal, and trade routes. also, super obvious but since no one's mentioned it burgeoning is an auto include.

burgeoning t1 is bonkers here

Quote from DirkGently »

Quote from Tanion »

hmmm Possessed Portal with some way to break the effect like Abundance can be quite funny to Stax them out. Samething with stuff like Uba Mask, Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar, Horn of Greed. Also might be easy to get an active Archmage Ascension because your general guarantees an extra draw. Maybe even dumbstuff like Parallel Thoughts can be worth while in that type of shell.

Some random jank like donating Impending Disaster while having Sacred Ground can be funny as hell when you are giving people lands.

They don't work with Archmage ascension. Both abilities trigger on endstep, and ascension will not trigger if you haven't already drawn 2 cards by then. Also uba mask seems bad with them unless you have just a ton of instants since it sorta negates your draw usually.

Yeah you are right about the Ascension and Uba Mask. Was just trying to deny them draw.

I like all of the feedback! The ideas for a giving opponents ammunition then denying them access to hit us is a great one. Playing rattlesnake cards will definitely make threats for us and it be hard to deal with. I think throwing cards out there that hurt other players more as instants such as giving double strike with Boros Charm to their creatures or buffing their creatures with Berserk as they deal damage then destroying it as the drawback is a fun idea. Play the devil's advocate and make friends while controlling how the game plays out at the same time. I really like the landfall as a primary win with a few ways to combo in the mix with the "Seismic Swans" idea. With an abundance of lands, this should be doable.

I been wanting to make a Theros themed commander deck for a while and these guys look like they would be perfect for being the Commander. No idea how good such a thing will be, but they look to be fun.

Quote from Blueteam5 »

...I think throwing cards out there that hurt other players more as instants such as giving double strike with Boros Charm to their creatures or buffing their creatures with Berserk as they deal damage then destroying it as the drawback is a fun idea...

Great idea with Berserk! Exactly the card I'm looking for in my judo deck

Honestly im going to ask if i can house rule the four guildgates that have black on them into the deck. These guys would be perfect for the maze's end deck that i am working on if they were 5 color. Realistically without playing any black cards, those gates are just worse basic lands until i have all ten, plus maze's end.

Is it just me, or do they seem well suited for MLD? Access to red and white, green for ramp and targeted ld, blue for draw. They draw you cards and get you extra land drops to recover from geddon, and your opponents only get one or the other.

Just noticed the synergy between the two with Aggressive Mining. You put lands into play via the general, instead of playing, which bypasses Aggressive Mining.

That does have some I treating synergy. It's easy to get around the downside plus green gives us many land ramp options as well. It could help go along with a land them for him and use Titania, protector of Argoth as a finisher. I think I'll try to make room for it in my build I'm brewing.

Has anyone thought of doing a group hug defenders deck?