Well, recently I was investing into a Sliver Overlord EDH and got to play it as it stood with some friends. The deck did pretty well but I fell into the thing I was scared of: it got repetitive. However, I planned for this. As I had invested into a decent land base, I've got some of the most expensive pieces for the mana base of some new commanders. In addition, I deconstructed my Animar, Soul of Elements deck after I played with my friends. I realized after playing and talking to them that the deck really wasn't me. I had played the deck because it did well and that's not good.
But I digress. The point is that I've now got a lot of cards laying around from all five colors and I want to make so new commander decks. However, I having some difficulty in deciding what I'm going to do. These are the commanders I've been looking at:
Kaalia of the Vast: Demons, Dragons and Angels, oh my! I've played against this deck before, however, I'm curious as to her bigger weaknesses are and how you'd get around them. In addition, I really need to know just how expensive is this going to get if I decide to go with her. I like her because she is really creature driven and has access to some of the best removal and lockout on top of that.
Dragonlord Ojutai: I personally find him to be the best of the Dragonlords and really good as both a card and as a general. However, Ojutai really wants a control or voltron style of play and I have no experience with either. Despite this, that interests me because he might actually get me into them. I'm curious if there is a way to balance those two playstyles or if I'm better off just picking one over the other. I know that control is inherently expensive but i'm sure about voltron. Yet, Ojutai will save me some money on lands due to his WU colors.
The Mimeoplasm: This is a guy I've looked at for a while but I've never really been able to pin down how I wish to go about him. He has ridiculous potential and great colors. Yet, I need to know what I'm in for with him. What will I need to focus on with him or to avoid going overboard with.
Rafiq of the Many: A more off the wall choice, if you ask me. He's a good card with some decent colors. However, I've been told he's a little stiff and most the deck will have to go about protecting him. I've never played with Exalted so this would be a completely new experience. I know he's also got a voltron option.
Maelstrom Wanderer: Out of all the commanders I've listed, I already own this guy as a holdover from my Animar deck. I like him, he's a cool commander with powerful abilities. However, I don't know if I want to get into the whole bouncing/replay shenanigans like I had with Animar. Or would this be drastically different? I see some potential here...
So that's what I'm looking at, people. What I'm asking is not for you decide for me. I'm asking for your experience and insight in either playing with or against these commanders and to share those experiences. If you don't know anything about one or more of these commanders, that's okay. Share what you do know. I'll even take suggestions on other commanders if you've noticed some kind of trend in my choices.
All help, advice, and discussion is welcomed and appreciated.
Other than that, what is your play style (aggro, combo, control)? What did and didn't you like about your previous decks?
While I have not played a deck with any of these commanders at the helm, I have played against strong versions of all of them except for Dragonlord Ojutai and The Mimeoplasm.
Kaalia, of the Vast will typically be an archenemy when she sits at the table due to very powerful combos (Master of Cruelties, Rakdos, the Defiler) appearing very early. Expect Kaalia, of the Vast to get hated off the board a lot, so make sure you have a strong backup plan for getting your larger creatures into play. Card draw and tutoring are a huge part of this deck to ensure that you general never runs out of gas. It is similar to Mayael the Anima in this regard.
Rafiq of the Many I have seen as a cross between cant control and voltron, with some infect thrown in (typically on Rafiq) to quickly take people out of the game. These decks also seem very general reliant and linear.
Maelstrom Wanderer is the one I am most familiar with facing. The deck needs to be jammed with a decent amount of ramp, to pay for your 8 CMC general, have the card draw to keep it going, some smaller utility creatures for early game, and finally a few combos, and/or board wipes, usually at the 5-7 CMC range. It is very strong when built right.
"Recently, I started taking apart Animar and Sliver Overlord because they were stale and boring to me. So here I'm going to list a few commanders I'm looking at along with the most obvious strategy to play with them, so that they can also become stale and boring. And I'll also ask you how to perfect and protect that strategy to really ensure I can make my games as homogeneous as possible."
Come on! The reason you say you're not playing Sliver Overlord is that it's repetitive. The reason you say you're not playing Animar is that it isn't really you. Looking at new generals from such a utilitarian perspective is not going to solve these problems. If you want to build your deck around your commander, don't just pick the ones that do all the work for you. Try something crazy! Like, Emmara Tandris is an absolute pile of crap that I've never seen anyone even attempt to play, but I bet if you can make it work, you would have fun doing it. Or like build a Rakdos the Defiler deck that kills with Bitter Ordeal. The stronger the general you play, the more likely it is to get stale. The more common the general you play, the less likely it is that you'll really have ownership of it. Unless you do something really out of left field, nobody is ever going to look at your Kaalia deck and think of it as your Kaalia deck, but rather they'll think of it as your copy of the same Kaalia deck that's been made 1000 times. Make something people aren't tired of seeing. (and frankly, Ojutai is the only thing on that list that people aren't tired of seeing)
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I have a lot of experience in aggro and combo based decks. I've never tried control but I've been on the receiving end. I'm very open, however. If I try something and don't liken it, I usually recycle it into something new.
"Recently, I started taking apart Animar and Sliver Overlord because they were stale and boring to me. So here I'm going to list a few commanders I'm looking at along with the most obvious strategy to play with them, so that they can also become stale and boring. And I'll also ask you how to perfect and protect that strategy to really ensure I can make my games as homogeneous as possible."
Come on! The reason you say you're not playing Sliver Overlord is that it's repetitive. The reason you say you're not playing Animar is that it isn't really you. Looking at new generals from such a utilitarian perspective is not going to solve these problems. If you want to build your deck around your commander, don't just pick the ones that do all the work for you. Try something crazy! Like, Emmara Tandris is an absolute pile of crap that I've never seen anyone even attempt to play, but I bet if you can make it work, you would have fun doing it. Or like build a Rakdos the Defiler deck that kills with Bitter Ordeal. The stronger the general you play, the more likely it is to get stale. The more common the general you play, the less likely it is that you'll really have ownership of it. Unless you do something really out of left field, nobody is ever going to look at your Kaalia deck and think of it as your Kaalia deck, but rather they'll think of it as your copy of the same Kaalia deck that's been made 1000 times. Make something people aren't tired of seeing. (and frankly, Ojutai is the only thing on that list that people aren't tired of seeing)
You know what they say about putting words in another's mouth? Your replay is basically: "Stop whining and try this!"
The reason that I stopped with Sliver Overlord was because it got stale to me, this is true. I stepped away from Animar, Soul of the Elements not because it was boring but because I realized that my enjoyment of it came from the fact it was winning, not because I liked the deck. I'm not asking for you to outline everything about each of these commanders, I asked for experiences so that I could a better idea of how they operate. I literally have no experience with those commanders that I've listed. I'm more or less looking for general advice.
I'm not trying to pioneer a whole new type of deck. Been there, done that, wasn't pretty. I'm just exploring other types of strategies, that are known but not really present in my playgroup, and kindly asking for a little help that's all.
"Recently, I started taking apart Animar and Sliver Overlord because they were stale and boring to me. So here I'm going to list a few commanders I'm looking at along with the most obvious strategy to play with them, so that they can also become stale and boring. And I'll also ask you how to perfect and protect that strategy to really ensure I can make my games as homogeneous as possible."
Come on! The reason you say you're not playing Sliver Overlord is that it's repetitive. The reason you say you're not playing Animar is that it isn't really you. Looking at new generals from such a utilitarian perspective is not going to solve these problems. If you want to build your deck around your commander, don't just pick the ones that do all the work for you. Try something crazy! Like, Emmara Tandris is an absolute pile of crap that I've never seen anyone even attempt to play, but I bet if you can make it work, you would have fun doing it. Or like build a Rakdos the Defiler deck that kills with Bitter Ordeal. The stronger the general you play, the more likely it is to get stale. The more common the general you play, the less likely it is that you'll really have ownership of it. Unless you do something really out of left field, nobody is ever going to look at your Kaalia deck and think of it as your Kaalia deck, but rather they'll think of it as your copy of the same Kaalia deck that's been made 1000 times. Make something people aren't tired of seeing. (and frankly, Ojutai is the only thing on that list that people aren't tired of seeing)
It depends on how you build your deck. The more linear the deck is, the more likely it is stale, IMO.
"Recently, I started taking apart Animar and Sliver Overlord because they were stale and boring to me. So here I'm going to list a few commanders I'm looking at along with the most obvious strategy to play with them, so that they can also become stale and boring. And I'll also ask you how to perfect and protect that strategy to really ensure I can make my games as homogeneous as possible."
Come on! The reason you say you're not playing Sliver Overlord is that it's repetitive. The reason you say you're not playing Animar is that it isn't really you. Looking at new generals from such a utilitarian perspective is not going to solve these problems. If you want to build your deck around your commander, don't just pick the ones that do all the work for you. Try something crazy! Like, Emmara Tandris is an absolute pile of crap that I've never seen anyone even attempt to play, but I bet if you can make it work, you would have fun doing it. Or like build a Rakdos the Defiler deck that kills with Bitter Ordeal. The stronger the general you play, the more likely it is to get stale. The more common the general you play, the less likely it is that you'll really have ownership of it. Unless you do something really out of left field, nobody is ever going to look at your Kaalia deck and think of it as your Kaalia deck, but rather they'll think of it as your copy of the same Kaalia deck that's been made 1000 times. Make something people aren't tired of seeing. (and frankly, Ojutai is the only thing on that list that people aren't tired of seeing)
It depends on how you build your deck. The more linear the deck is, the more likely it is stale, IMO.
Exactly. You can take any commander and flip them around in various ways. My problem is that with these guys, I don't know where to even start. Once I have a foundation in place, that's when I get to the fun part of ironing out my own ideas.
I have a lot of experience in aggro and combo based decks. I've never tried control but I've been on the receiving end. I'm very open, however. If I try something and don't liken it, I usually recycle it into something new.
So what it seems is that you want a deck that really isn't linear? What is the power level (Ill get the over 9000 joke out of the way) of the decks you play against? Is there any color combo that you like more or strategies you don't want to play? Do you like being proactive or reactionary when playing? Is there any sort of strategy you have an aversion to (e.g., poison, MLD, hard locks, stax, etc)?
Sorry to ask all of the questions, but it helps narrow down a good deck to try.
I have a lot of experience in aggro and combo based decks. I've never tried control but I've been on the receiving end. I'm very open, however. If I try something and don't liken it, I usually recycle it into something new.
So what it seems is that you want a deck that really isn't linear? What is the power level (Ill get the over 9000 joke out of the way) of the decks you play against? Is there any color combo that you like more or strategies you don't want to play? Do you like being proactive or reactionary when playing? Is there any sort of strategy you have an aversion to (e.g., poison, MLD, hard locks, stax, etc)?
Sorry to ask all of the questions, but it helps narrow down a good deck to try.
I enjoy being proactive. Heck, when I build a deck, I build it in mind that I will come under a lot of fire. By that I build the deck around an overarching theme/strategy. EX: Prossh, Skyraider of Kher. I built a deck around him that maximized his damage potential and had lots of synergy with him but could stand on its own. I included things like Urabrask the Hidden, Beastmaster Ascension, Dictate of Erebos, Mycoloth, and Doubling Season that would allow me not only get the most out of Prossh but allow me to create a horde of creatures to overwhelm my opponents and slowing them down along way.
Most of the decks I play against are the type of decks that have gone through a lot of fine tuning and reevaluations. However, not always optimized as most would see it. Basically, decks that may not be Tier 1 competitive but have a lot of thought, time and effort put into them and are constantly being improved/adapted.
To be honest, I'm not a fan of locking up a game to the point that no one can do anything. I generally view at as un-fun on both sides. On my opponents' side, they are helpless and cannot really hope to win or at lest put up a fight. On my side, it become boring as nothing is happening.
Also, I'm glad you asked all these questions. I like to answer them as not only do they help you, help me but also allow me to ponder what I'm really looking for. Heck, at the end of all of this, I might just go back and retool Animar, Soul of Elements with other themes. Or I might discover something I haven't heard or thought about.
You know what they say about putting words in another's mouth? Your replay is basically: "Stop whining and try this!"
The reason that I stopped with Sliver Overlord was because it got stale to me, this is true. I stepped away from Animar, Soul of the Elements not because it was boring but because I realized that my enjoyment of it came from the fact it was winning, not because I liked the deck. I'm not asking for you to outline everything about each of these commanders, I asked for experiences so that I could a better idea of how they operate. I literally have no experience with those commanders that I've listed. I'm more or less looking for general advice.
I'm not trying to pioneer a whole new type of deck. Been there, done that, wasn't pretty. I'm just exploring other types of strategies, that are known but not really present in my playgroup, and kindly asking for a little help that's all.
And now you gave a flippant summary of my post, and I have no problem with that because it can be part of a good dialogue.
But you definitely said "All help, advice, and discussion is welcomed and appreciated." And the correct advice is "You're doing it wrong!" Kaalia, Rafiq, Mimeoplasm, and Maelstrom Wanderer will do nothing interesting for you other than winning. I've played against every one of those extensively, and it's groan worthy. Ojutai seems interesting, but that's beside the point. You're trying to find a deck you can enjoy for what it is rather than how much it wins, and then you list a bunch of commanders who have only one thing in common: they win. And at the suggestion you try something totally different, you say you're not trying to pioneer a new type of deck because when you tried that it wasn't pretty, which I take to mean that it lost a lot. Everything screams that you're just trying to build a winning deck, which is just circling back around to the problem you're already facing.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
You know what they say about putting words in another's mouth? Your replay is basically: "Stop whining and try this!"
The reason that I stopped with Sliver Overlord was because it got stale to me, this is true. I stepped away from Animar, Soul of the Elements not because it was boring but because I realized that my enjoyment of it came from the fact it was winning, not because I liked the deck. I'm not asking for you to outline everything about each of these commanders, I asked for experiences so that I could a better idea of how they operate. I literally have no experience with those commanders that I've listed. I'm more or less looking for general advice.
I'm not trying to pioneer a whole new type of deck. Been there, done that, wasn't pretty. I'm just exploring other types of strategies, that are known but not really present in my playgroup, and kindly asking for a little help that's all.
And now you gave a flippant summary of my post, and I have no problem with that because it can be part of a good dialogue.
But you definitely said "All help, advice, and discussion is welcomed and appreciated." And the correct advice is "You're doing it wrong!" Kaalia, Rafiq, Mimeoplasm, and Maelstrom Wanderer will do nothing interesting for you other than winning. I've played against every one of those extensively, and it's groan worthy. Ojutai seems interesting, but that's beside the point. You're trying to find a deck you can enjoy for what it is rather than how much it wins, and then you list a bunch of commanders who have only one thing in common: they win. And at the suggestion you try something totally different, you say you're not trying to pioneer a new type of deck because when you tried that it wasn't pretty, which I take to mean that it lost a lot. Everything screams that you're just trying to build a winning deck, which is just circling back around to the problem you're already facing.
You say that all the commanders that I chose simply scream "win". It takes more than that. If was really looking for that, I wouldn't be here asking for advice or ideas, I'd be looking a competitive deck lists and thinking about how long and how much money it it would take me to get everything I need.
In addition, you take it that my experiments in non-traditional deck building resulted in not winning? Oh, how I wish it had been that simple. Those little delves into my more creative/experimental mindset resulted in decks that did not function on all but the most basic levels and the amount of fixing it would've taken came with a price tag way out of range of what I considered acceptable or doable.
I did not make this thread to find a new way to win. I made this thread with the hope that I could get to the point having a solid idea for a new deck. From there I could iron out and refine what exactly I could do that idea.
Nothing more, nothing less. I apologize if everything I've said up to this point gave you such impression.
If I were you, I might be looking more towards Maelstrom Wanderer, The Mimeoplasm or Dragonlord Ojutai. Kaalia and Rafiq can - though not necessarily if you set your deck right - tend to be a little linear and play out the same game to game. The question then becomes are you looking at combo, control or interactivity as your main play style for the deck. Maelstrom tends to play out as either goodstuff.Dec or combo-focused. Ramp into maelstrom, cast some big things, get him back to command zone, rinse repeat. You can add some interesting combos in there to just go for the kill, such as Tooth and Nail and Craterhoof Behemoth, if you wish to call that a combo, but usually it'll just turn into hit my goodstuff and win or hit nothing. I built one for a while that focused on Possibility Stormcombos, but it didn't last long. Ojutai seems more focused on control/voltron. Keep things clear and locked down so ojutai can connect, grab the best thing to keep the board in your favor, and keep hitting people with an ice dragon. Azorius is the right colors for such a strategy, too. It seems like that would be fun to an extent, but like most voltrons, you kind of have to enjoy the ability of the card and have enough fun pieces around the general to get enjoyment out of it. Lastly is Mimeoplasm, who is the most interactive of the 3. From the one player in my group to play the deck, and from others I've seen, Mimeoplasm can be pretty fun and offer different experiences each game. Put a bunch of group mill effects and Buried Alive type effects in, pick out the most interesting creatures in everyone's grave and blob you together some monstrosity. Not necessarily the most reliable general, but can be the most fun, if you ask me. You also get to put some big creatures with fun effects in the deck to have fun with, and have access to the best 3 edh colors.
As always though, the choice is yours, just based on where you'd like to go and how you'd like to play games.
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Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
If I were you, I might be looking more towards Maelstrom Wanderer, The Mimeoplasm or Dragonlord Ojutai. Kaalia and Rafiq can - though not necessarily if you set your deck right - tend to be a little linear and play out the same game to game. The question then becomes are you looking at combo, control or interactivity as your main play style for the deck. Maelstrom tends to play out as either goodstuff.Dec or combo-focused. Ramp into maelstrom, cast some big things, get him back to command zone, rinse repeat. You can add some interesting combos in there to just go for the kill, such as Tooth and Nail and Craterhoof Behemoth, if you wish to call that a combo, but usually it'll just turn into hit my goodstuff and win or hit nothing. I built one for a while that focused on Possibility Stormcombos, but it didn't last long. Ojutai seems more focused on control/voltron. Keep things clear and locked down so ojutai can connect, grab the best thing to keep the board in your favor, and keep hitting people with an ice dragon. Azorius is the right colors for such a strategy, too. It seems like that would be fun to an extent, but like most voltrons, you kind of have to enjoy the ability of the card and have enough fun pieces around the general to get enjoyment out of it. Lastly is Mimeoplasm, who is the most interactive of the 3. From the one player in my group to play the deck, and from others I've seen, Mimeoplasm can be pretty fun and offer different experiences each game. Put a bunch of group mill effects and Buried Alive type effects in, pick out the most interesting creatures in everyone's grave and blob you together some monstrosity. Not necessarily the most reliable general, but can be the most fun, if you ask me. You also get to put some big creatures with fun effects in the deck to have fun with, and have access to the best 3 edh colors.
As always though, the choice is yours, just based on where you'd like to go and how you'd like to play games.
Thank you very much. Based on what you said The Mimeoplasm seems the most interesting and offers the most intriguing and interactive play. As you said, he's a little different each game and can take advantage of my graveyard and my opponents'. I think he'll be a little difficult to build. There's so many possibilities with him but that will make him fun. That also give me room to experiment. I'll be honest he scares me a bit with how much he could do, but he sounds worth it.
I was afraid that Kaalia and Rafiq were too linear. Kind of hoping someone knew something that was a little different but I guess I have to expect that they are built to do what they do and that's not too much. Dragonlord Ojutai...I was interested in him but I think that things would get to stale to quickly. There just sounds like too much would have to added to keep him interesting. It also sounds like he lends himself to too much of the mentality "I have to win!".
I have a lot of experience in aggro and combo based decks. I've never tried control but I've been on the receiving end. I'm very open, however. If I try something and don't liken it, I usually recycle it into something new.
So what it seems is that you want a deck that really isn't linear? What is the power level (Ill get the over 9000 joke out of the way) of the decks you play against? Is there any color combo that you like more or strategies you don't want to play? Do you like being proactive or reactionary when playing? Is there any sort of strategy you have an aversion to (e.g., poison, MLD, hard locks, stax, etc)?
Sorry to ask all of the questions, but it helps narrow down a good deck to try.
I enjoy being proactive. Heck, when I build a deck, I build it in mind that I will come under a lot of fire. By that I build the deck around an overarching theme/strategy. EX: Prossh, Skyraider of Kher. I built a deck around him that maximized his damage potential and had lots of synergy with him but could stand on its own. I included things like Urabrask the Hidden, Beastmaster Ascension, Dictate of Erebos, Mycoloth, and Doubling Season that would allow me not only get the most out of Prossh but allow me to create a horde of creatures to overwhelm my opponents and slowing them down along way.
Most of the decks I play against are the type of decks that have gone through a lot of fine tuning and reevaluations. However, not always optimized as most would see it. Basically, decks that may not be Tier 1 competitive but have a lot of thought, time and effort put into them and are constantly being improved/adapted.
To be honest, I'm not a fan of locking up a game to the point that no one can do anything. I generally view at as un-fun on both sides. On my opponents' side, they are helpless and cannot really hope to win or at lest put up a fight. On my side, it become boring as nothing is happening.
Also, I'm glad you asked all these questions. I like to answer them as not only do they help you, help me but also allow me to ponder what I'm really looking for. Heck, at the end of all of this, I might just go back and retool Animar, Soul of Elements with other themes. Or I might discover something I haven't heard or thought about.
See this is what I'm talking about. I completely forgot about Glissa the Traitor! I remember first looking at her and thinking "Man, she's deadly in combat." Her artifact recursion ability on top just begs for some interesting interactions. Thank you for reminding me!
Though the deck is different, I feel that if Animar bored you, there is a large chance Wanderer will, too. Wanderer is more spells than creatures, but it is still a similar explosive ramp deck that aims to go quickly into an oppressive board state, at least in fair builds. Everyone will attempt to kill you before you get the mana for Wanderer, as in a well-built deck, there is little you can do once those double Cascades go off.
Kaalia's land base is one of the cheaper ones to optimize, so she has that going for her, but she is very fragile. Basically, what paragonweapon said about her, playstyle wise.
Ojutai is tons of fun, perhaps not the strongest choice, but very viable, even in spikey metas. Ojutai is more tempo than straight voltron: slower than other Voltron generals, what you need most with him are vigilance enablers, then flying and hexproof and lots of attack-based draw do the rest. Control isn't particularly expensive to build, really, apart from the two big bucks counters, and the deck works just fine without those.
I've only ever seen the Mimeoplasm is a fast graveyard combo build. He is very powerful, and the playstyle tends to be: tutor, tutor, win. I suppose a fair goodstuff Mimeo could be built, I've just never seen it.
Rafiq is an excellent voltron general ( maybe the best? ), but he faces the weaknesses of the archetype. I've seen an Infect list with him at the helm that was really solid, as it gave him an alternate win even if he can't be played or used for whatever reason.
If you're worried about linear game styles, unfortunately most of these generals do one thing well, and focus on that. I'd recommend Ojutai the most, then perhaps Mimeoplasm ( just because he's built boring most times, doesn't mean he has to be ).
Looking back at Animar, Soul of Elements, I never got bored as much as I realized that the deck itself didn't seem to excite me when I played it last. I actually had a few documents left over to when I first put the deck together and I think I saw what happened. Originally, my Animar deck was so fun because it I was able to play lots of creatures while still being highly productive. I think as time went on, I started to try too hard. Just like you pointed out that The Mimeoplasm is usually built boring but doesn't mean it has to be. I think this is what happened to my Animar. It's gone too far and needs to be toned down a bit. I need to add back in some of the more fun cards I've taken out of it over these last few months.
I think this also shows how my mindset has shifted over the last couple of months. I think I'm viewing everything down the lenses of efficiency: my decks are working better but have no soul anymore.
I'm really glad that I made this thread. Not only have I gotten some good advice but I've to realize where I went wrong in my deck buildings and thinking. I don't think I'll go back to Slivers anytime soon but I've got some thinking to do.
The Mimeoplasm, Dragonlord Ojutai and Glissa, the Traitor. All of them I'm going to look into. I'll look for a nice foundation for each of them to base around and then I'll look for some fun cards to throw in with them to make them personalized.
My Animar deck. There's a lot of differences between now and when it was first made. I'm going to go back and re-personalize it.
Also a little inspiration hit me. A card I've thought about using before but never looked into: Sakashima the Impostor as a general.
Although Kaalia can be linear if you build her in the standard way, she actually can support a wide range of decks. She's a cleric, so she can work well as a general for cleric tribal with some angels/demon/dragon support. As there are a number of good angels/demons that synergize with lifegain/life loss she can support that deck too. She also works well for a control deck, particularly a flying one with Moat and Island Sanctuary. You'll probably get hated on the first time you play it, but once your playgroup realizes that you didn't build Master of Cruelties + mass land destruction, it will die down too.
Otherwise though Glissa, the Traitor and The Mimeoplasm are good choices for generals with a lot of variation in how they play out. Ojutai is very voltron/control focused, so unless you like playing UW control I would avoid it.
a good deck ive seen played before is a 5c lands deck. since its a control build, you generally need to really think about what to crack for whatever threat that you face (though the benefit of a lands build is that you generally have a good amount of recursive answers). not sure if thats your kinda game.
i think some of the new generals from the cmdr2015 range could be good fun for you too.
But I digress. The point is that I've now got a lot of cards laying around from all five colors and I want to make so new commander decks. However, I having some difficulty in deciding what I'm going to do. These are the commanders I've been looking at:
Kaalia of the Vast: Demons, Dragons and Angels, oh my! I've played against this deck before, however, I'm curious as to her bigger weaknesses are and how you'd get around them. In addition, I really need to know just how expensive is this going to get if I decide to go with her. I like her because she is really creature driven and has access to some of the best removal and lockout on top of that.
Dragonlord Ojutai: I personally find him to be the best of the Dragonlords and really good as both a card and as a general. However, Ojutai really wants a control or voltron style of play and I have no experience with either. Despite this, that interests me because he might actually get me into them. I'm curious if there is a way to balance those two playstyles or if I'm better off just picking one over the other. I know that control is inherently expensive but i'm sure about voltron. Yet, Ojutai will save me some money on lands due to his WU colors.
The Mimeoplasm: This is a guy I've looked at for a while but I've never really been able to pin down how I wish to go about him. He has ridiculous potential and great colors. Yet, I need to know what I'm in for with him. What will I need to focus on with him or to avoid going overboard with.
Rafiq of the Many: A more off the wall choice, if you ask me. He's a good card with some decent colors. However, I've been told he's a little stiff and most the deck will have to go about protecting him. I've never played with Exalted so this would be a completely new experience. I know he's also got a voltron option.
Maelstrom Wanderer: Out of all the commanders I've listed, I already own this guy as a holdover from my Animar deck. I like him, he's a cool commander with powerful abilities. However, I don't know if I want to get into the whole bouncing/replay shenanigans like I had with Animar. Or would this be drastically different? I see some potential here...
So that's what I'm looking at, people. What I'm asking is not for you decide for me. I'm asking for your experience and insight in either playing with or against these commanders and to share those experiences. If you don't know anything about one or more of these commanders, that's okay. Share what you do know. I'll even take suggestions on other commanders if you've noticed some kind of trend in my choices.
All help, advice, and discussion is welcomed and appreciated.
Other than that, what is your play style (aggro, combo, control)? What did and didn't you like about your previous decks?
While I have not played a deck with any of these commanders at the helm, I have played against strong versions of all of them except for Dragonlord Ojutai and The Mimeoplasm.
Kaalia, of the Vast will typically be an archenemy when she sits at the table due to very powerful combos (Master of Cruelties, Rakdos, the Defiler) appearing very early. Expect Kaalia, of the Vast to get hated off the board a lot, so make sure you have a strong backup plan for getting your larger creatures into play. Card draw and tutoring are a huge part of this deck to ensure that you general never runs out of gas. It is similar to Mayael the Anima in this regard.
Rafiq of the Many I have seen as a cross between cant control and voltron, with some infect thrown in (typically on Rafiq) to quickly take people out of the game. These decks also seem very general reliant and linear.
Maelstrom Wanderer is the one I am most familiar with facing. The deck needs to be jammed with a decent amount of ramp, to pay for your 8 CMC general, have the card draw to keep it going, some smaller utility creatures for early game, and finally a few combos, and/or board wipes, usually at the 5-7 CMC range. It is very strong when built right.
Come on! The reason you say you're not playing Sliver Overlord is that it's repetitive. The reason you say you're not playing Animar is that it isn't really you. Looking at new generals from such a utilitarian perspective is not going to solve these problems. If you want to build your deck around your commander, don't just pick the ones that do all the work for you. Try something crazy! Like, Emmara Tandris is an absolute pile of crap that I've never seen anyone even attempt to play, but I bet if you can make it work, you would have fun doing it. Or like build a Rakdos the Defiler deck that kills with Bitter Ordeal. The stronger the general you play, the more likely it is to get stale. The more common the general you play, the less likely it is that you'll really have ownership of it. Unless you do something really out of left field, nobody is ever going to look at your Kaalia deck and think of it as your Kaalia deck, but rather they'll think of it as your copy of the same Kaalia deck that's been made 1000 times. Make something people aren't tired of seeing. (and frankly, Ojutai is the only thing on that list that people aren't tired of seeing)
You know what they say about putting words in another's mouth? Your replay is basically: "Stop whining and try this!"
The reason that I stopped with Sliver Overlord was because it got stale to me, this is true. I stepped away from Animar, Soul of the Elements not because it was boring but because I realized that my enjoyment of it came from the fact it was winning, not because I liked the deck. I'm not asking for you to outline everything about each of these commanders, I asked for experiences so that I could a better idea of how they operate. I literally have no experience with those commanders that I've listed. I'm more or less looking for general advice.
I'm not trying to pioneer a whole new type of deck. Been there, done that, wasn't pretty. I'm just exploring other types of strategies, that are known but not really present in my playgroup, and kindly asking for a little help that's all.
It depends on how you build your deck. The more linear the deck is, the more likely it is stale, IMO.
Exactly. You can take any commander and flip them around in various ways. My problem is that with these guys, I don't know where to even start. Once I have a foundation in place, that's when I get to the fun part of ironing out my own ideas.
So what it seems is that you want a deck that really isn't linear? What is the power level (Ill get the over 9000 joke out of the way) of the decks you play against? Is there any color combo that you like more or strategies you don't want to play? Do you like being proactive or reactionary when playing? Is there any sort of strategy you have an aversion to (e.g., poison, MLD, hard locks, stax, etc)?
Sorry to ask all of the questions, but it helps narrow down a good deck to try.
I enjoy being proactive. Heck, when I build a deck, I build it in mind that I will come under a lot of fire. By that I build the deck around an overarching theme/strategy. EX: Prossh, Skyraider of Kher. I built a deck around him that maximized his damage potential and had lots of synergy with him but could stand on its own. I included things like Urabrask the Hidden, Beastmaster Ascension, Dictate of Erebos, Mycoloth, and Doubling Season that would allow me not only get the most out of Prossh but allow me to create a horde of creatures to overwhelm my opponents and slowing them down along way.
Most of the decks I play against are the type of decks that have gone through a lot of fine tuning and reevaluations. However, not always optimized as most would see it. Basically, decks that may not be Tier 1 competitive but have a lot of thought, time and effort put into them and are constantly being improved/adapted.
To be honest, I'm not a fan of locking up a game to the point that no one can do anything. I generally view at as un-fun on both sides. On my opponents' side, they are helpless and cannot really hope to win or at lest put up a fight. On my side, it become boring as nothing is happening.
Also, I'm glad you asked all these questions. I like to answer them as not only do they help you, help me but also allow me to ponder what I'm really looking for. Heck, at the end of all of this, I might just go back and retool Animar, Soul of Elements with other themes. Or I might discover something I haven't heard or thought about.
And now you gave a flippant summary of my post, and I have no problem with that because it can be part of a good dialogue.
But you definitely said "All help, advice, and discussion is welcomed and appreciated." And the correct advice is "You're doing it wrong!" Kaalia, Rafiq, Mimeoplasm, and Maelstrom Wanderer will do nothing interesting for you other than winning. I've played against every one of those extensively, and it's groan worthy. Ojutai seems interesting, but that's beside the point. You're trying to find a deck you can enjoy for what it is rather than how much it wins, and then you list a bunch of commanders who have only one thing in common: they win. And at the suggestion you try something totally different, you say you're not trying to pioneer a new type of deck because when you tried that it wasn't pretty, which I take to mean that it lost a lot. Everything screams that you're just trying to build a winning deck, which is just circling back around to the problem you're already facing.
You say that all the commanders that I chose simply scream "win". It takes more than that. If was really looking for that, I wouldn't be here asking for advice or ideas, I'd be looking a competitive deck lists and thinking about how long and how much money it it would take me to get everything I need.
In addition, you take it that my experiments in non-traditional deck building resulted in not winning? Oh, how I wish it had been that simple. Those little delves into my more creative/experimental mindset resulted in decks that did not function on all but the most basic levels and the amount of fixing it would've taken came with a price tag way out of range of what I considered acceptable or doable.
I did not make this thread to find a new way to win. I made this thread with the hope that I could get to the point having a solid idea for a new deck. From there I could iron out and refine what exactly I could do that idea.
Nothing more, nothing less. I apologize if everything I've said up to this point gave you such impression.
As always though, the choice is yours, just based on where you'd like to go and how you'd like to play games.
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Thank you very much. Based on what you said The Mimeoplasm seems the most interesting and offers the most intriguing and interactive play. As you said, he's a little different each game and can take advantage of my graveyard and my opponents'. I think he'll be a little difficult to build. There's so many possibilities with him but that will make him fun. That also give me room to experiment. I'll be honest he scares me a bit with how much he could do, but he sounds worth it.
I was afraid that Kaalia and Rafiq were too linear. Kind of hoping someone knew something that was a little different but I guess I have to expect that they are built to do what they do and that's not too much. Dragonlord Ojutai...I was interested in him but I think that things would get to stale to quickly. There just sounds like too much would have to added to keep him interesting. It also sounds like he lends himself to too much of the mentality "I have to win!".
Again, I thank you for the insights.
Generals like Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Maelstrom Wanderer (which you already mentioned), the toolbox generals (e.g. Captain Sisay, Zur the Enchanter), Glissa, the Traitor (which you can recur artifacts over and over forcing your opponent to deal with them), Sygg, River Cutthroat, Jenara, Asura of War, are all not bad places to start, as they typically allow you to make the first move and force your opponent to deal with them or the board states they create without being very linear.
Though the deck is different, I feel that if Animar bored you, there is a large chance Wanderer will, too. Wanderer is more spells than creatures, but it is still a similar explosive ramp deck that aims to go quickly into an oppressive board state, at least in fair builds. Everyone will attempt to kill you before you get the mana for Wanderer, as in a well-built deck, there is little you can do once those double Cascades go off.
Kaalia's land base is one of the cheaper ones to optimize, so she has that going for her, but she is very fragile. Basically, what paragonweapon said about her, playstyle wise.
Ojutai is tons of fun, perhaps not the strongest choice, but very viable, even in spikey metas. Ojutai is more tempo than straight voltron: slower than other Voltron generals, what you need most with him are vigilance enablers, then flying and hexproof and lots of attack-based draw do the rest. Control isn't particularly expensive to build, really, apart from the two big bucks counters, and the deck works just fine without those.
I've only ever seen the Mimeoplasm is a fast graveyard combo build. He is very powerful, and the playstyle tends to be: tutor, tutor, win. I suppose a fair goodstuff Mimeo could be built, I've just never seen it.
Rafiq is an excellent voltron general ( maybe the best? ), but he faces the weaknesses of the archetype. I've seen an Infect list with him at the helm that was really solid, as it gave him an alternate win even if he can't be played or used for whatever reason.
If you're worried about linear game styles, unfortunately most of these generals do one thing well, and focus on that. I'd recommend Ojutai the most, then perhaps Mimeoplasm ( just because he's built boring most times, doesn't mean he has to be ).
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I think this also shows how my mindset has shifted over the last couple of months. I think I'm viewing everything down the lenses of efficiency: my decks are working better but have no soul anymore.
I'm really glad that I made this thread. Not only have I gotten some good advice but I've to realize where I went wrong in my deck buildings and thinking. I don't think I'll go back to Slivers anytime soon but I've got some thinking to do.
The Mimeoplasm, Dragonlord Ojutai and Glissa, the Traitor. All of them I'm going to look into. I'll look for a nice foundation for each of them to base around and then I'll look for some fun cards to throw in with them to make them personalized.
My Animar deck. There's a lot of differences between now and when it was first made. I'm going to go back and re-personalize it.
Also a little inspiration hit me. A card I've thought about using before but never looked into: Sakashima the Impostor as a general.
Otherwise though Glissa, the Traitor and The Mimeoplasm are good choices for generals with a lot of variation in how they play out. Ojutai is very voltron/control focused, so unless you like playing UW control I would avoid it.
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i think some of the new generals from the cmdr2015 range could be good fun for you too.
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