So I've had this nagging interest into making a five color tribal-abuse deck. Using cards like xenograft and the lorwyn block with abilities like changeling. So my question is what are the most abuseable tribal-based cards currently floating around?
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Slivers are the strongest tribe in five colors, honestly, at least outside of combo Elves nonsense that mainly uses G. Slivers have the best lords: Sliver Legion, for example.
Dragons and Allies are also awfully impressive these days if you want big, splashy plays.
Well Allies have been getting a big bump recently thanks to BFZ but still no really good Commander for them as a whole.
You could do all of the creature type changing spells and then include a boat load of lords and things that make stuff cheaper and then run changelings and the 5C commander of your choice.
Bring new Omnath and set up a novacannon (Flamekin Harbinger + Nova Chaser or other Champion + Incandescent Soulstoke). It also gives you access to reusable Avenger of Zendikar, abuse Evoke elementals from Lorwyn and, slightly expensively, reusable Crib Swap. Outside of Slivers this is the way I would go for 5c tribal.
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EDH BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern: RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
I highly recommend the omni-tribal Reaper King build. You include 2 or 3 scarecrows, all the halfway decent changelings, and then a bunch of random cards that provide good boosts to different tribes. I love Lord of the Unreal (ideally comboed with Mirror Entity or Amoeboid Changeling) and Knowledge Exploitation particularly. Conspiracy is great in the deck. You can either name scarecrow to turn all your lords into vindicates, or name some other tribe depending on the lords you have out.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
The Wolves enter as Allies, they don't become allies after they enter. Xenograft will work.
Sadly, no. At least as far as the oracle text rulings say when you click on the card link. They don't gain the creature type till they have already entered play. Seems like a silly distinction, but whatever.
I have been pondering building this deck for quite a while. I get bogged down by the DIZZYING array of options. One thing I liked the look of was the Tap 5 lords from Onslaught like Catapult Master or Gravespawn Sovereign combined with the Merfolk "want to be tapped" cards from Lorwyn like Merrow Commerce. Mirror Entity is key in this deck as unlike Conspiracy which blanks all other creature types leaving you with only 1 type of lord available or Xenograft and Artificial Evolution only adds one creature type, Mirror Entity adds them all! My vision with this deck could perhaps even allow you to build a mini deck building box for it, keeping a core of Changelings and generic tribal cards and swapping out the specific tribal shenanigans with your mood. Truly a nearly unlimited array of possibilities!
The Wolves enter as Allies, they don't become allies after they enter. Xenograft will work.
Sadly, no. At least as far as the oracle text rulings say when you click on the card link. They don't gain the creature type till they have already entered play. Seems like a silly distinction, but whatever.
You're referring to the Bramblewood Paragon case, right? The thing is, if I have understood this correctly, that the paragon has a replacement effect, which is a totally different thing as a triggered ability. So for the triggered ability, I see no reason why Xenograft and Turntimber Ranger shouldn't work.
The Wolves enter as Allies, they don't become allies after they enter. Xenograft will work.
Sadly, no. At least as far as the oracle text rulings say when you click on the card link. They don't gain the creature type till they have already entered play. Seems like a silly distinction, but whatever.
You're referring to the Bramblewood Paragon case, right? The thing is, if I have understood this correctly, that the paragon has a replacement effect, which is a totally different thing as a triggered ability. So for the triggered ability, I see no reason why Xenograft and Turntimber Ranger shouldn't work.
Hmm, I did not realize that difference. Well then, that does sound correct and I certainly hope it is. Wish they made a note on that in that ruling.
Hmm, I did not realize that difference. Well then, that does sound correct and I certainly hope it is. Wish they made a note on that in that ruling.
Pointing out that every replacement effect isn't the same as a triggered ability would make a lot of clutter. I think it's reasonable to expect people to learn the difference, in that regard. It's certainly a big difference.
Bramblewood Paragon and the other paragons don't work because of a "quirk" (though, by design) in the rules - mainly:
614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent’s characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.
Oh I just meant pointing that out in the rulings text, since they already did point out the Bramblewood difference. But good to know the replacement effect difference. That little quirk is not very obvious when you look at the wording. Anyways, I am happy that it DOES work.
In the realm of allies, I really like sea gate loremaster. It's almost unplayable a lot of the time, but in a deck like this, one activation could put you way ahead of the curve.
Azami, Lady of Scrolls Wizard tribal is a lot of fun, and there are a lot of Wizards that have weird alternative costs for effects that let you spread your resources more broadly. (Azami also has a couple of brutal instant win combos.)
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If you're looking to be aggressive, there's few better ways than Shared Animosity. I'm also a huge fan of Coat of Arms - obviously it has its drawbacks, but it's not hard to make it an advantage.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Dragons and Allies are also awfully impressive these days if you want big, splashy plays.
Beyond that, Lord of the Unreal and Lovisa Coldeyes give serious bonuses.
Xenograft, Conspiracy, and Artificial Evolution enable a few silly combos such as with Turntimber Ranger.
You could do all of the creature type changing spells and then include a boat load of lords and things that make stuff cheaper and then run changelings and the 5C commander of your choice.
Bring new Omnath and set up a novacannon (Flamekin Harbinger + Nova Chaser or other Champion + Incandescent Soulstoke). It also gives you access to reusable Avenger of Zendikar, abuse Evoke elementals from Lorwyn and, slightly expensively, reusable Crib Swap. Outside of Slivers this is the way I would go for 5c tribal.
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
5C Elves ftw. I'm playing a 5C elves deck with Reaper King running the show and it is a blast to play.
For tribal abuse there are cards like Peer Pressure that works exceptionally well with Mirror Entity, Rooftop Storm that makes all changelings cost 0 to cast and Quick Sliver that gives all changelings flash. The creature type tutors from Nemesis block are also very powerful, eg moggcatcher, skyshroud poacher
Personally I find that all tribes can run a 5c shell, just that we have to be creative with the commander as not all tribes have a 5c commander.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
EDIT: Oh, and while Turntimber Ranger (and others) combo with conspiracy and artificial evolution, I don't think it combos with xenograft as the tokens will have already entered the battlefield before they become allies.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Sadly, no. At least as far as the oracle text rulings say when you click on the card link. They don't gain the creature type till they have already entered play. Seems like a silly distinction, but whatever.
I have been pondering building this deck for quite a while. I get bogged down by the DIZZYING array of options. One thing I liked the look of was the Tap 5 lords from Onslaught like Catapult Master or Gravespawn Sovereign combined with the Merfolk "want to be tapped" cards from Lorwyn like Merrow Commerce. Mirror Entity is key in this deck as unlike Conspiracy which blanks all other creature types leaving you with only 1 type of lord available or Xenograft and Artificial Evolution only adds one creature type, Mirror Entity adds them all! My vision with this deck could perhaps even allow you to build a mini deck building box for it, keeping a core of Changelings and generic tribal cards and swapping out the specific tribal shenanigans with your mood. Truly a nearly unlimited array of possibilities!
You're referring to the Bramblewood Paragon case, right? The thing is, if I have understood this correctly, that the paragon has a replacement effect, which is a totally different thing as a triggered ability. So for the triggered ability, I see no reason why Xenograft and Turntimber Ranger shouldn't work.
Hmm, I did not realize that difference. Well then, that does sound correct and I certainly hope it is. Wish they made a note on that in that ruling.
Pointing out that every replacement effect isn't the same as a triggered ability would make a lot of clutter. I think it's reasonable to expect people to learn the difference, in that regard. It's certainly a big difference.
Bramblewood Paragon and the other paragons don't work because of a "quirk" (though, by design) in the rules - mainly:
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WU Bruna UW | R Kiki-Jiki R | RB New Chainer BR
Legacy - Burn | Pauper - Reanimator | Aristocrats | Burn
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Some tribe-specific cards that work well with Reaper King Changelings would be things like Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Patron Wizard, Voidmage Prodigy, Gemhide Sliver, Manaweft Sliver, Harabaz Druid, Priest of Titania, Elvish Archdruid, Seton, Krosan Protector, Leaf-Crowned Elder, Rage Forger, Thundercloud Shaman, Necrotic Sliver, Harmonic Sliver, Gilt-Leaf Archdruid, Horde of Notions, Kaalia of the Vast, Sea Gate Loremaster, Scourge of Valkas, Godo, Bandit Warlord, Crucible of Fire, Call to the Grave, Anowon, the Ruin Sage, Rooftop Storm, Krenko, Mob Boss, Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Rotlung Reanimator, and Xathrid Necromancer all have abilities worth looking into for their tribal interactions; which to include all depends on what you want to do.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections