I will be so hype if the UG one ends up the worst of the lot.
UG has the fewest legends of any color pair.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Imo Its not really a matter of how many legends there are total. Its a matter of how many are actually good/effective generals. Most legendary creatures are horrible generals. While Simic might have the fewest, the ones they do have are powerful. Orzhov and Boros are the only enemy colour combo without a tier 1 duel commander general. Check mtgtop8.com if you don't believe me. Orzhov has had a couple rogue tier 2 lists but there isn't a single Boros deck on there.
Edit: Golgari doesn't really have a tier 1 list eithor but they have more decks then the other 2.
Everyone seems to be forgetting about Iroas, God of Victory. I have slain many an opponent with him. Although it is correct to say that he's just another "red zone matters" Boros general.
What we really need is a Burn Commander. Dunno if I would want him in just "Boros" though.
Agreed, Rakdos Gruul and Izzet all have burn commanders. Boros only has Brion Stoutarm but it would be nice to have one that can burn creatures as well.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
There are already few "burn" commanders, in the terms of mana-into-damage. I have ran kumano in the past as a burn source/wincon, and will always maintain my beloved Lautlla burn deck.
Past turning mana into direct damage I'm having a hard time imagining how development would design a legendary/general that helps exclusively burn function well in a 40 life format, that wouldn't also distort other formats that commander cards are legal in. A spell-slinger general like Melek or spell-cheat like Jeleva could work for burn, but that would not be nearly as strong as what other options these generals offer.
Play a Ajani's Mantra and then every turn after being able to pay 1 for 3 damage would be amazing. When you start adding in more "Upkeep Life Gainers" it starts getting better, and Sun Droplet would allow you to hurt yourself once for a pod rotation's worth of bolts.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I want a general that says something along the lines of "damage from sources you control have lifelink." That would be a pretty sweet RW effect.
Perhaps a ticking time bomb creature? Something like Necroplasm?
What about a RW legend that includes "whenever a land enters the graveyard from the battlefield, you may draw a card" in its text box?
It plays nice with all of the fetches, and nicer still with the MLD that both Red and White are capable of casting.
Plus, it is something newish that grants card advantage. Tack the text from Crucible of Worlds onto it, and you have a potentially new deck that can either be brutal or merely advantageous.
Cost it at 1WR and make it a 2/1 with haste and first strike, and you can then throw a bone to the tiny leaders camp, as well.
Cheers!
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What about a RW legend that includes "whenever a land enters the graveyard from the battlefield, you may draw a card" in its text box?
It plays nice with all of the fetches, and nicer still with the MLD that both Red and White are capable of casting.
Plus, it is something newish that grants card advantage. Tack the text from Crucible of Worlds onto it, and you have a potentially new deck that can either be brutal or merely advantageous.
Cost it at 1WR and make it a 2/1 with haste and first strike, and you can then throw a bone to the tiny leaders camp, as well.
Cheers!
I like the idea of whenever a land enters the gy from play thing but the Crucible of Worlds bit would be busted... Fun but busted.
It sounds like a bunch of people want Commanders that can do things outside their color identity....
No, there is lots of design space within color identity to make good generals.
They just haven't made anything to shore up the crippling weaknesses of the bad color combos. They are forced to do things that are rarely fun at EDH tables, or be second class.
I easily forget that Commander set cards are Vintage/Legacy legal. That does make it objectively difficult to design cost-efficient cards.
Generals using hybrid mana would be interesting, allowing for essentially monocolored decks if one so chooses.
Since were discussing dream cards, a BW or maybe RW legend that reads "when ~ enters the battlefield and on your upkeep, each player's life total becomes equal to the lowest life total in the game" (but with better phrasing) would be interesting. Give it a low power and high toughness with lifelink to make it more of a headscratcher.
Cheers!
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If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
And they're all amazing except Kraj. Meanwhile Boros has 7 generals with abilities that matter exclusively during combat.
Experiment Kraj is still powerful, just a bit slow. I'd be a fan except for the art and flavor. Also, Tajic, Blade of the Legion's indestructible matters out of combat.
We know that red and white are allowed to do things besides make your team better at hitting people, because there are plenty of mono-white and mono-red legends that have effects that are not just making your team better at hitting people. The RW generals, for the most part, cluster very heavily around doing just that, however. (Brion Stoutarm being the only general that really pushes in a different direction.) There are generals like Anax and Cymede and Jor Kadeen that put some additional constraints on what goes in the deck in order to turn them on, but their payoff is still just making your team better at hitting people.
I very much doubt that they'll print a RW commander that centers around lands dying, though. For that to make any sense, either the deck would have to be long on land destruction or contain a lot of lands that you sacrifice for an effect, and I can't see them doing either of those things in what's supposed to be an introductory (to the format) product. I suppose it could maybe be the backup commander.
If I had to guess, I'd guess that they go with some kind of Tamanoa/Searing Meditation angle. There's just not a ton of R/W overlap theme that's well-scaled for commander. (It could potentially also be a tokens deck, and artifact/equipment deck, or just another swing-with-the-team deck.)
Enchantment recursion is white. Artifact recursion is white and red. If we're building castles in the sky:
RW General of my dreams - 2RW
When ~ enters the battlefield, return target artifact or enchantment card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
1/1
The flavor is all over the place, but I think it's good while not being stupid.
My thoughts went along the same lines. White likes enchantments, and red likes artifacts. Some kind of 'non-creature permanent' oriented boros commander would be most welcome in my collection.
I'm also really hoping for some shamans and other good stuff from the BG one for my sapling of colfenor deck.
And some kind of Izzet commander that is fun and interesting without waving the 'I'm going to combo your face off' flag.
Boros has more than 7 generals, I was trying to illustrate that most of them aren't good. Brion is one of the few interesting ones.
Boros generals tend to just want to attack and hit people. Brion likes to throw things that hit those people.
Tbh, we need a commander product that uses Planar Chaos, set not card, as a foundation for what it wants to do. We just need a but ton of color shifted cards and abilities. Really **** up the color wheel in a way that hasn't been done before. Push the envelope and break boundaries.
I actually kinda like some of the boros generals. Brion, Gisella, and Aurelia all do some neat things and lend themselves to unique builds. Some quirky underpowered cards suddenly shine with these generals. IE:
Brion: threaten effects, serra avatar
Gisella: repercussion, pyrohemia
Aurelia: on-attack and combat-damage triggers
They're just all slow and underpowered. If they made an efficiently-costed boros general capable of generating card advantage on its own (a welder general, for example), it might be possible to make a tier 1 deck.
Actually, maybe if they married stoneforge mystic with godo, bandit warlord, I'd be a happy man. That could enable skullclamp or sword of fire/ice for CA, sword of the animist or feast/famine for ramp, and would suit the colors.
Boros has more than 7 generals, I was trying to illustrate that most of them aren't good. Brion is one of the few interesting ones.
Boros generals tend to just want to attack and hit people. Brion likes to throw things that hit those people.
Tbh, we need a commander product that uses Planar Chaos, set not card, as a foundation for what it wants to do. We just need a but ton of color shifted cards and abilities. Really **** up the color wheel in a way that hasn't been done before. Push the envelope and break boundaries.
With Rosewater in charge, even though he doesn't pay a lot of attention to Commander, there is close to zero chance that will happen, and for good reason. The color pie is an important component of the game. The occasional card that pushes the boundaries of the pie for good flavor reasons is fine, but a whole set like that, I'd be astounded if we ever see that again.
Tbh, we need a commander product that uses Planar Chaos, set not card, as a foundation for what it wants to do. We just need a but ton of color shifted cards and abilities. Really **** up the color wheel in a way that hasn't been done before. Push the envelope and break boundaries.
This idea worries me. Idk if it is reading on the internet but I can't tell if that was sarcasm in reference to previous posts, or a serious desire.
If development pushed more color-breaking than they already do, then the fundamental idea of what colors represent in this game will begin to fail. That is one of the original building blocks that made this game do so well - that no single or pairings of colors was ever "the best" at everything, and each color had its positive and negative attributes.
If development gives up on color limitations in new cards, then I fear that they also effectively given up on the game, cashed in for a few last expansions, and set their ship to sink.
Nope, no sarcasm. Planar Chaos was just an amazing set. The concept was good and the cards were amazing. We got Damnation, Harmonize, Mana Tithe, Whitemane Lion, Stingscourger, Stonecloaker, Groundbreaker, and so on. I really want to see more cards like this. The color pie has always been in slight fluctuation with abilities from one color bleeding into another allied color. An entire commander set based on this concept could be amazing.
I get the whole Color Pie and i'm not talking about throwing it out the window and printing Damnations for every color. I'm talking about taking the idea behind a set and printing a larger pool of cards, in the form of balanced decks designed to be played against each other, with the same idea in mind. I'm taking about taking a color combination that already does specific things together and color shifting cards between them. I've got nothing against the color pie, but mixing things up every once in a while prevents it from becoming stagnant and having more and more cards that do the same thing in the same ways in the same colors.
Read my post a bit further - Daretti does what your suggested cards do to, but not like mono-white. Mono-red does reanimation at a cost of sacrifice. Mono-white just returns. Huge difference, and just slapping the two colors together doesn't mean the creature gets to loose the negative side of mono-red in terms of recursion.
I read your post. Who said it needed to be sacrifice-free? Welder can be a great value engine as-is (consider reusing memory jar, or just ETB effects). White does have cards that parallel the idea of sacrificing one thing to redeem others (reveillark, loyal retainers, salvage scout, etc). It's not a perfect match, but I'm sure there's a way to make a recursion card that fits both colors from a flavor perspective.
Still, the more I think about it, the more I'd love a boros stoneforge mystic. Would probably have to weaker than the original, but I think that's the best way to give the archetype what it needs and satisfy color/flavor requirements.
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UG has the fewest legends of any color pair.
On phasing:
Edit: Golgari doesn't really have a tier 1 list eithor but they have more decks then the other 2.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
A pushed legendary Searing Meditation would work wonders.
Play a Ajani's Mantra and then every turn after being able to pay 1 for 3 damage would be amazing. When you start adding in more "Upkeep Life Gainers" it starts getting better, and Sun Droplet would allow you to hurt yourself once for a pod rotation's worth of bolts.
Perhaps a ticking time bomb creature? Something like Necroplasm?
It plays nice with all of the fetches, and nicer still with the MLD that both Red and White are capable of casting.
Plus, it is something newish that grants card advantage. Tack the text from Crucible of Worlds onto it, and you have a potentially new deck that can either be brutal or merely advantageous.
Cost it at 1WR and make it a 2/1 with haste and first strike, and you can then throw a bone to the tiny leaders camp, as well.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
I like the idea of whenever a land enters the gy from play thing but the Crucible of Worlds bit would be busted... Fun but busted.
No, there is lots of design space within color identity to make good generals.
They just haven't made anything to shore up the crippling weaknesses of the bad color combos. They are forced to do things that are rarely fun at EDH tables, or be second class.
Generals using hybrid mana would be interesting, allowing for essentially monocolored decks if one so chooses.
Since were discussing dream cards, a BW or maybe RW legend that reads "when ~ enters the battlefield and on your upkeep, each player's life total becomes equal to the lowest life total in the game" (but with better phrasing) would be interesting. Give it a low power and high toughness with lifelink to make it more of a headscratcher.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
And they're all amazing except Kraj. Meanwhile Boros has 7 generals with abilities that matter exclusively during combat.
Experiment Kraj is still powerful, just a bit slow. I'd be a fan except for the art and flavor. Also, Tajic, Blade of the Legion's indestructible matters out of combat.
I very much doubt that they'll print a RW commander that centers around lands dying, though. For that to make any sense, either the deck would have to be long on land destruction or contain a lot of lands that you sacrifice for an effect, and I can't see them doing either of those things in what's supposed to be an introductory (to the format) product. I suppose it could maybe be the backup commander.
If I had to guess, I'd guess that they go with some kind of Tamanoa/Searing Meditation angle. There's just not a ton of R/W overlap theme that's well-scaled for commander. (It could potentially also be a tokens deck, and artifact/equipment deck, or just another swing-with-the-team deck.)
RW General of my dreams - 2RW
When ~ enters the battlefield, return target artifact or enchantment card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
1/1
The flavor is all over the place, but I think it's good while not being stupid.
Oh Rider, my heart will go on...
I would Parallax Wave and Flameshadow Conjuring the hell out of this guy
My thoughts went along the same lines. White likes enchantments, and red likes artifacts. Some kind of 'non-creature permanent' oriented boros commander would be most welcome in my collection.
I'm also really hoping for some shamans and other good stuff from the BG one for my sapling of colfenor deck.
And some kind of Izzet commander that is fun and interesting without waving the 'I'm going to combo your face off' flag.
Boros generals tend to just want to attack and hit people. Brion likes to throw things that hit those people.
Tbh, we need a commander product that uses Planar Chaos, set not card, as a foundation for what it wants to do. We just need a but ton of color shifted cards and abilities. Really **** up the color wheel in a way that hasn't been done before. Push the envelope and break boundaries.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
I actually kinda like some of the boros generals. Brion, Gisella, and Aurelia all do some neat things and lend themselves to unique builds. Some quirky underpowered cards suddenly shine with these generals. IE:
Brion: threaten effects, serra avatar
Gisella: repercussion, pyrohemia
Aurelia: on-attack and combat-damage triggers
They're just all slow and underpowered. If they made an efficiently-costed boros general capable of generating card advantage on its own (a welder general, for example), it might be possible to make a tier 1 deck.
Actually, maybe if they married stoneforge mystic with godo, bandit warlord, I'd be a happy man. That could enable skullclamp or sword of fire/ice for CA, sword of the animist or feast/famine for ramp, and would suit the colors.
With Rosewater in charge, even though he doesn't pay a lot of attention to Commander, there is close to zero chance that will happen, and for good reason. The color pie is an important component of the game. The occasional card that pushes the boundaries of the pie for good flavor reasons is fine, but a whole set like that, I'd be astounded if we ever see that again.
Nope, no sarcasm. Planar Chaos was just an amazing set. The concept was good and the cards were amazing. We got Damnation, Harmonize, Mana Tithe, Whitemane Lion, Stingscourger, Stonecloaker, Groundbreaker, and so on. I really want to see more cards like this. The color pie has always been in slight fluctuation with abilities from one color bleeding into another allied color. An entire commander set based on this concept could be amazing.
I get the whole Color Pie and i'm not talking about throwing it out the window and printing Damnations for every color. I'm talking about taking the idea behind a set and printing a larger pool of cards, in the form of balanced decks designed to be played against each other, with the same idea in mind. I'm taking about taking a color combination that already does specific things together and color shifting cards between them. I've got nothing against the color pie, but mixing things up every once in a while prevents it from becoming stagnant and having more and more cards that do the same thing in the same ways in the same colors.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Still, the more I think about it, the more I'd love a boros stoneforge mystic. Would probably have to weaker than the original, but I think that's the best way to give the archetype what it needs and satisfy color/flavor requirements.