The new Avacyn asks for a RW sac deck, much like Brion Stoutarm. Wall of Omens and Solemn Simulacrum are the kinds of cards such a deck wants to run. The upcoming Investigate cards from SOI look like they might provide some card draw for RW decks as well.
White of course has a decent number of tutors for enchantments and Equipment, and now has a planeswalker tutor as well. And while they may not be the most efficient choices, there are plenty of card-drawing artifacts as well. Auriok Salvagers + Spellbombs makes for a nice white draw engine.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Jor encourages using artifacts, so there's potential card advantage in not having to build so much around that general (since you'd run those cards anyway in Boros given the lack of card advantage and ramp).
I don't think we should consider how generals encourage builds or potential CA, though--those are strategies that rely on you dropping your general. Meanwhile all these other colors (that have natural CA) have generals with immediate CA.
I don't think Boros will get natural CA on a general. However, you know what effect I could see them stapling on a legend? Moonhold keeps status quo and hates on land without destroying it.
Ok as an exercise, let's list all of the guilds and shards that have no card draw or recursion in the command zone. I'll bet a majority of the non-blue color combinations don't, and even a few Blue ones probably don't.
I know everyone wants to see CA in boros but its just not in the colour pie. What IS in the Boros slice of pie is disruption. The best way to make a non red zone general in boros is to make a disruptive one. So far Archangel Avacyn is the best disruption legend we have.
I know everyone wants to see CA in boros but its just not in the colour pie. What IS in the Boros slice of pie is disruption. The best way to make a non red zone general in boros is to make a disruptive one. So far Archangel Avacyn is the best disruption legend we have.
The issue is not what's in the color pie. Wizards just refuses to take into account of what the individual colors are capable of when they decide what a color combination is capable of. Attacking, Tokens, and Lightning Helix effects aren't the only things the color combination should be able to do.
I know everyone wants to see CA in boros but its just not in the colour pie. What IS in the Boros slice of pie is disruption. The best way to make a non red zone general in boros is to make a disruptive one. So far Archangel Avacyn is the best disruption legend we have.
The issue is not what's in the color pie. Wizards just refuses to take into account of what the individual colors are capable of when they decide what a color combination is capable of. Attacking, Tokens, and Lightning Helix effects aren't the only things the color combination should be able to do.
Oh I agree. I'm just saying that in everything RW does its generally the worst combo in Terms of CA. I would love to see more interesting Boros mechanics, but nothing with solid card draw.
I know everyone wants to see CA in boros but its just not in the colour pie. What IS in the Boros slice of pie is disruption. The best way to make a non red zone general in boros is to make a disruptive one. So far Archangel Avacyn is the best disruption legend we have.
The issue is not what's in the color pie. Wizards just refuses to take into account of what the individual colors are capable of when they decide what a color combination is capable of. Attacking, Tokens, and Lightning Helix effects aren't the only things the color combination should be able to do.
Oh I agree. I'm just saying that in everything RW does its generally the worst combo in Terms of CA. I would love to see more interesting Boros mechanics, but nothing with solid card draw.
Generic card draw isn't really needed anyway. Red has gotten a lot of card draw in the past few years, and white has an amazing amount of recursion. Tbh, I'd love to see a legendary Goblin Welder that also works for enchantments.
I know everyone wants to see CA in boros but its just not in the colour pie. What IS in the Boros slice of pie is disruption. The best way to make a non red zone general in boros is to make a disruptive one. So far Archangel Avacyn is the best disruption legend we have.
The issue is not what's in the color pie. Wizards just refuses to take into account of what the individual colors are capable of when they decide what a color combination is capable of. Attacking, Tokens, and Lightning Helix effects aren't the only things the color combination should be able to do.
Oh I agree. I'm just saying that in everything RW does its generally the worst combo in Terms of CA. I would love to see more interesting Boros mechanics, but nothing with solid card draw.
Generic card draw isn't really needed anyway. Red has gotten a lot of card draw in the past few years, and white has an amazing amount of recursion. Tbh, I'd love to see a legendary Goblin Welder that also works for enchantments.
I know everyone wants to see CA in boros but its just not in the colour pie. What IS in the Boros slice of pie is disruption. The best way to make a non red zone general in boros is to make a disruptive one. So far Archangel Avacyn is the best disruption legend we have.
The issue is not what's in the color pie. Wizards just refuses to take into account of what the individual colors are capable of when they decide what a color combination is capable of. Attacking, Tokens, and Lightning Helix effects aren't the only things the color combination should be able to do.
This is something I agree with here. Although I will add, this is way worse with a few of the opposing color pairs than it is for Boros.
Golgari - Return such and such from your graveyard to hand, battlefield, so on, that's all they ever print. Even when it makes no sense for the color pie outside of the set, like Glissa, the Traitor
Simic - Putting counters on stuff has been old and tired ever since the failure of stuff like Simic Guildmage.
Orzhov - How this color combo became all about gaining life, a historically irrelevant part of Magic, is lost on me. Black and White are two colors that have the most to do with recurring creatures, but the recursion spam went to Goldari instead.
Izzet - Pages have been written about how tired the Instant/Sorcery meme is, so enough to mention it here.
In every case, it seems like something to the tune of 60-75% of the legendaries they print are the exact same idea. They think they've nailed down the "feel" of each enemy guild for decades, and they're not very adventerous about exploring new space. Ironically, there is a lot more variety in the cards before the original Ravnica set than after, with things like Squandered Resources, Gerrard's Command, each being unique but nevertheless spot-on for flavor on each color.
Golgari - Return such and such from your graveyard to hand, battlefield, so on, that's all they ever print. Even when it makes no sense for the color pie outside of the set, like Glissa, the Traitor
Orzhov - How this color combo became all about gaining life, a historically irrelevant part of Magic, is lost on me. Black and White are two colors that have the most to do with recurring creatures, but the recursion spam went to Goldari instead.
In every case, it seems like something to the tune of 60-75% of the legendaries they print are the exact same idea. They think they've nailed down the "feel" of each enemy guild for decades, and they're not very adventerous about exploring new space.
Check your numbers again. It's possible you're correct when it comes to the multicolored cards that aren't legendary creatures (I have zero desire to go through all of those), but you're plain wrong about the actual commanders in these cases.
Golgari - Return such and such from your graveyard to hand, battlefield, so on, that's all they ever print. Even when it makes no sense for the color pie outside of the set, like Glissa, the Traitor
Orzhov - How this color combo became all about gaining life, a historically irrelevant part of Magic, is lost on me. Black and White are two colors that have the most to do with recurring creatures, but the recursion spam went to Goldari instead.
In every case, it seems like something to the tune of 60-75% of the legendaries they print are the exact same idea. They think they've nailed down the "feel" of each enemy guild for decades, and they're not very adventerous about exploring new space.
Check your numbers again. It's possible you're correct when it comes to the multicolored cards that aren't legendary creatures (I have zero desire to go through all of those), but you're plain wrong about the actual commanders in these cases.
Basically, this. Boros seems to be the only color combination that they're not big on exploring its possibilities. Granted, they gave us Brion Stoutarm, but that was quite some time ago and everything since has been fairly same-ish.
I'd also like to add that Glissa, the Traitor is amazing because she does something out of the norm.
Ok as an exercise, let's list all of the guilds and shards that have no card draw or recursion in the command zone. I'll bet a majority of the non-blue color combinations don't, and even a few Blue ones probably don't.
But for some reason, there are always a ton of people grimacing whenever they print a Boros general that's not Ophidian.
For starters, I don't think Bant does.
Bant doesn't need help though. It already has the second strongest non-banned commander in the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Instead of building a fast car to win the race, you fill the race track with manure and drive your tractor to victory.
That is stax."
~cmv_lawyer, 2016
I think it would be cool to see a Boros Commander that has an Orim's Chant/Silence type effect attached that has a payment of some sort so you just can't spam it every turn, but to have balance. I think a Blood Moon type effect is a bit too strong for a commander to have attached. Chant/Silence though could help the color to do things like force spells to resolve, stop chains of spells from going off etc.
Golgari - Return such and such from your graveyard to hand, battlefield, so on, that's all they ever print. Even when it makes no sense for the color pie outside of the set, like Glissa, the Traitor
Orzhov - How this color combo became all about gaining life, a historically irrelevant part of Magic, is lost on me. Black and White are two colors that have the most to do with recurring creatures, but the recursion spam went to Goldari instead.
In every case, it seems like something to the tune of 60-75% of the legendaries they print are the exact same idea. They think they've nailed down the "feel" of each enemy guild for decades, and they're not very adventerous about exploring new space.
Check your numbers again. It's possible you're correct when it comes to the multicolored cards that aren't legendary creatures (I have zero desire to go through all of those), but you're plain wrong about the actual commanders in these cases.
Basically, this. Boros seems to be the only color combination that they're not big on exploring its possibilities. Granted, they gave us Brion Stoutarm, but that was quite some time ago and everything since has been fairly same-ish.
I'd also like to add that Glissa, the Traitor is amazing because she does something out of the norm.
Maybe it is just the ones that get played who seem samey? I mean, when we are diggig as deep as Saproling of Colfenor and Vhati il-Dal to prove a point, I think we understand each other.
Golgari - probably should have expanded this category to "stuff that cares about stuff dying" 9/13 there.
Simic - Simic still seems samey to me. I think it's the other way around, that Simic is all about cards and mana, while the other generals are an attempt to break from that.
Orzhov - I think you're miscounting here. There's Karlov. If you expand it to a "life totals matter" theme, then only the 2 Teysa's, Daxos and Triad of Fates don't have life payment, or likelink, or something.
Izzet - Ok, two themes. One, draw and ping (poorly grafted together mechanics), and two, Instants and Sorceries. And guess what, most of the spells in these colors either burn or draw.
Sure, if you honestly see a ton of variety in the other enemy guilds, I'm not going to try too hard to talk you out of it and ruin your fun. You'll have to likewise take me as sincere when I say I don't see a lot of variety in Golgari, Izzet, and so on.
Against the context of that too, consider that the criticism of the Boros generals is that they're "too combat oriented", or "don't add value" or something like that. Extremely vague. Every creature in the game is combat oriented, because it's required to have power and toughness. So, you'll have to take me as sincere when I say that I see taking a vastly different approach between Gisela, Kelemne, Aurelia, Iroas, Jor Kadeen, and Tajic. The others I probably wouldn't play, but they are there. I am probably going to do a lot of attacking with either, sure. But I'm also the guy who builds Daxxos 2.0 as Aura-based beatdown, and Melek with Fatal Frenzy. So, it's entirely possible that it's just a different target audience.
Also, the new Avacyn is going to be sick. I plan on doing a lot of attacking with her too, just way more spells and goodstuff than Boros voltron.
The question is, there seems to be a ton of criticism that the Boros generals aren't good, and very few people complaining about the other guilds. Not sure why. If the shoe doesn't fit, play other colors. It's like people are pining for something they think these colors are about, but don't get into the cards.
Against the context of that too, consider that the criticism of the Boros generals is that they're "too combat oriented", or "don't add value" or something like that. Extremely vague. Every creature in the game is combat oriented, because it's required to have power and toughness. So, you'll have to take me as sincere when I say that I see taking a vastly different approach between Gisela, Kelemne, Aurelia, Iroas, Jor Kadeen, and Tajic. The others I probably wouldn't play, but they are there. I am probably going to do a lot of attacking with either, sure. But I'm also the guy who builds Daxxos 2.0 as Aura-based beatdown, and Melek with Fatal Frenzy. So, it's entirely possible that it's just a different target audience.
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight - Can do quite a bit. Likes to attack, as any creature that deals double damage would, but can be used in a couple of different strategies.
10 out of 13 legendaries are strictly based on combat and abilities pertaining to and assisting in combat. "too combat oriented" isn't vague when it's the only thing these legends do or help to do.
Golgari - Return such and such from your graveyard to hand, battlefield, so on, that's all they ever print. Even when it makes no sense for the color pie outside of the set, like Glissa, the Traitor
Orzhov - How this color combo became all about gaining life, a historically irrelevant part of Magic, is lost on me. Black and White are two colors that have the most to do with recurring creatures, but the recursion spam went to Goldari instead.
In every case, it seems like something to the tune of 60-75% of the legendaries they print are the exact same idea. They think they've nailed down the "feel" of each enemy guild for decades, and they're not very adventerous about exploring new space.
Check your numbers again. It's possible you're correct when it comes to the multicolored cards that aren't legendary creatures (I have zero desire to go through all of those), but you're plain wrong about the actual commanders in these cases.
Basically, this. Boros seems to be the only color combination that they're not big on exploring its possibilities. Granted, they gave us Brion Stoutarm, but that was quite some time ago and everything since has been fairly same-ish.
I'd also like to add that Glissa, the Traitor is amazing because she does something out of the norm.
Maybe it is just the ones that get played who seem samey? I mean, when we are diggig as deep as Saproling of Colfenor and Vhati il-Dal to prove a point, I think we understand each other.
Golgari - probably should have expanded this category to "stuff that cares about stuff dying" 9/13 there.
Simic - Simic still seems samey to me. I think it's the other way around, that Simic is all about cards and mana, while the other generals are an attempt to break from that.
Orzhov - I think you're miscounting here. There's Karlov. If you expand it to a "life totals matter" theme, then only the 2 Teysa's, Daxos and Triad of Fates don't have life payment, or likelink, or something.
Izzet - Ok, two themes. One, draw and ping (poorly grafted together mechanics), and two, Instants and Sorceries. And guess what, most of the spells in these colors either burn or draw.
Sure, if you honestly see a ton of variety in the other enemy guilds, I'm not going to try too hard to talk you out of it and ruin your fun. You'll have to likewise take me as sincere when I say I don't see a lot of variety in Golgari, Izzet, and so on.
Against the context of that too, consider that the criticism of the Boros generals is that they're "too combat oriented", or "don't add value" or something like that. Extremely vague. Every creature in the game is combat oriented, because it's required to have power and toughness. So, you'll have to take me as sincere when I say that I see taking a vastly different approach between Gisela, Kelemne, Aurelia, Iroas, Jor Kadeen, and Tajic. The others I probably wouldn't play, but they are there. I am probably going to do a lot of attacking with either, sure. But I'm also the guy who builds Daxxos 2.0 as Aura-based beatdown, and Melek with Fatal Frenzy. So, it's entirely possible that it's just a different target audience.
Also, the new Avacyn is going to be sick. I plan on doing a lot of attacking with her too, just way more spells and goodstuff than Boros voltron.
The question is, there seems to be a ton of criticism that the Boros generals aren't good, and very few people complaining about the other guilds. Not sure why. If the shoe doesn't fit, play other colors. It's like people are pining for something they think these colors are about, but don't get into the cards.
Man, I am also pumped for Archvacyn. It really isn't exactly an "only combat" Boros. It's damage related, obviously, but not strictly through combat. I plan on running Basilisk Collar a ton, along with multiple flicker effects, and then some Repercussion... Ugh, can just release already?
Like I said, creatures are combat oriented. Saying Anya, Iroas, and Tajic are combat oriented, over their indestructibility, is like saying Ophidian is combat oriented because it draws on attacking.
Those generals are about their indestructibility. No other color has as many. And no two other colors have as many cards that blow up the world. Sounds like a theme to me.
And I already said, it's not like I'd consider one "wide" oriented general over the best one. Or another Voltron general over the best one. Having both Jor and Agrus Kos in the same colors shouldn't be an indictment. There are plenty of inferior generals in all colors.
I don't think any decent playgroup would care if you just proxied new avacyn. I'm sure as hell gonna put that mist vampire into a deck, he's too cool to wait for
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
I'd love 4 color commanders, I'm dying to be able to add red to my Shadowborn deck (currently has Karador as it's commander to include Edgewalker & Rememberance which help it flow better), so that's what I'd like to see in the new commander.
But if they do guilds again I wouldn't mind a different Boros general to build around.
Like I said, creatures are combat oriented. Saying Anya, Iroas, and Tajic are combat oriented, over their indestructibility, is like saying Ophidian is combat oriented because it draws on attacking.
Those generals are about their indestructibility. No other color has as many. And no two other colors have as many cards that blow up the world. Sounds like a theme to me.
And I already said, it's not like I'd consider one "wide" oriented general over the best one. Or another Voltron general over the best one. Having both Jor and Agrus Kos in the same colors shouldn't be an indictment. There are plenty of inferior generals in all colors.
Except Ophidian IS combat oriented when you compare it to Azure Mage or any other "pay to draw cards" creature......
Like I said, creatures are combat oriented. Saying Anya, Iroas, and Tajic are combat oriented, over their indestructibility, is like saying Ophidian is combat oriented because it draws on attacking.
Weren't you the one who was complaining a couple pages ago about how Izzet doesn't have any combat oriented generals? It seems like you know perfectly well the difference between combat oriented and not, you're just being deliberately obtuse because you don't like the prevailing opinion about Boros. It would help if you stopped honing in on the strawman of "hurr durr Boros players just want card draw" and actually read some of the things that have been suggested, i.e. a general themed around equipment, a hatebears general, a burn/lifegain general, none of which necessarily involves giving Boros recursion or card draw.
Azami, Lady of Scrolls, for example, is in no way a "combat oriented" card. You could make her an enchantment and she'd retain 99.99% of her functionality. "Indestructible" is not a trait that orients a card toward any particular strategy. I mean, all the Theros god cards are indestructible, but that doesn't mean that Ephara, Phenax, Mogis, Karametra, Athreos, Keranos, and Kruphix are necessarily going to play anything alike, because their abilities other than "indestructible" all do different things and synergize with different types of cards. (I also wouldn't call any of them "combat oriented" either - you can certainly plan around keeping them as enchantments!) Anya, Iroas, and Tajic (and many others), on the other hand, all have abilities that only matter in combat. Indestructible is useful at keeping them alive, but there's only a benefit to keeping them alive if you care about attacking and blocking with creatures.
Ajani Vengeant's first ability and a Spitemare-type ability seem like the only effects not brought up so far.
EDIT: You what might help (and maybe this is what half-of-Avacyn accomplishes)? Making a RW character that's not always a protagonist? Oh, you oppose Momir/Phyrexia/the Eldrazi? Maybe if they didn't have to lead us into war constantly, they could be generating some non-combat card advantage for us.
White of course has a decent number of tutors for enchantments and Equipment, and now has a planeswalker tutor as well. And while they may not be the most efficient choices, there are plenty of card-drawing artifacts as well. Auriok Salvagers + Spellbombs makes for a nice white draw engine.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I don't think we should consider how generals encourage builds or potential CA, though--those are strategies that rely on you dropping your general. Meanwhile all these other colors (that have natural CA) have generals with immediate CA.
I don't think Boros will get natural CA on a general. However, you know what effect I could see them stapling on a legend? Moonhold keeps status quo and hates on land without destroying it.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Technically, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is a recursion general in Boros, Orzhov, and Mardu.
Granted she still requires getting into the red zone in order to do anything, but...progress?
Avatar by Numotflame96 of Maelstrom Graphics
Sig banner thanks to DarkNightCavalier of Heroes of the Plane Studios!
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
The issue is not what's in the color pie. Wizards just refuses to take into account of what the individual colors are capable of when they decide what a color combination is capable of. Attacking, Tokens, and Lightning Helix effects aren't the only things the color combination should be able to do.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Generic card draw isn't really needed anyway. Red has gotten a lot of card draw in the past few years, and white has an amazing amount of recursion. Tbh, I'd love to see a legendary Goblin Welder that also works for enchantments.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
This is something I agree with here. Although I will add, this is way worse with a few of the opposing color pairs than it is for Boros.
Golgari - Return such and such from your graveyard to hand, battlefield, so on, that's all they ever print. Even when it makes no sense for the color pie outside of the set, like Glissa, the Traitor
Simic - Putting counters on stuff has been old and tired ever since the failure of stuff like Simic Guildmage.
Orzhov - How this color combo became all about gaining life, a historically irrelevant part of Magic, is lost on me. Black and White are two colors that have the most to do with recurring creatures, but the recursion spam went to Goldari instead.
Izzet - Pages have been written about how tired the Instant/Sorcery meme is, so enough to mention it here.
In every case, it seems like something to the tune of 60-75% of the legendaries they print are the exact same idea. They think they've nailed down the "feel" of each enemy guild for decades, and they're not very adventerous about exploring new space. Ironically, there is a lot more variety in the cards before the original Ravnica set than after, with things like Squandered Resources, Gerrard's Command, each being unique but nevertheless spot-on for flavor on each color.
13 Golgari commanders, 9 of which don't recur/reanimate. Sisters of Stone Death sort of recurs, though (from exile, and only creatures she put there) and Varolz makes the creatures in your graveyard have some value, so we'll call it 7 out of 13. Still over 50% that aren't specifically about recursion/reanimation.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Kaseto, Orochi Archmage, Kruphix, God of Horizons, Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
4 out of 8 that don't put counters on things.
Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Ghost Council of Orzhova, Karlov of the Ghost Council, Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 out of 11 that deal with life gain. And 3 of those 4 represent the same character(s).
Arjun, the Shifting Flame, Jhoira of the Ghitu, Jori En, Ruin Diver, Tibor and Lumia
4 out of 10 that don't care about instants & sorceries specifically, although they do care about spells generally.
Keranos, God of Storms, Nin, the Pain Artist, Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius, Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
4 out of 10 that don't care about casting spells at all.
Check your numbers again. It's possible you're correct when it comes to the multicolored cards that aren't legendary creatures (I have zero desire to go through all of those), but you're plain wrong about the actual commanders in these cases.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Basically, this. Boros seems to be the only color combination that they're not big on exploring its possibilities. Granted, they gave us Brion Stoutarm, but that was quite some time ago and everything since has been fairly same-ish.
I'd also like to add that Glissa, the Traitor is amazing because she does something out of the norm.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Bant doesn't need help though. It already has the second strongest non-banned commander in the game.
That is stax."
~cmv_lawyer, 2016
WUI Don't Mean to Brago, But... RWBI'll Kaalia Back Later GBWKaradora the Graveyard Explorer BRGLive Long and Prosshper
BGUMuscle Plasm URGImperial Animarch BGLemon Meren Pie GWStop Being Such a Sisay UTefearsome RGWMarath of the Titans
UBRNow Watch me Trai Trai RWBAleshstax GWUPrison Can Roon Your Life BRGrenzo: Your Doom UArcum's Asylum of Stax
BGFeel the Ground Croak GThe All New 2016 Yisan Wanderer URFo Rizzle Mah Mizzle UBRA Game of Marchess
Maybe it is just the ones that get played who seem samey? I mean, when we are diggig as deep as Saproling of Colfenor and Vhati il-Dal to prove a point, I think we understand each other.
Golgari - probably should have expanded this category to "stuff that cares about stuff dying" 9/13 there.
Simic - Simic still seems samey to me. I think it's the other way around, that Simic is all about cards and mana, while the other generals are an attempt to break from that.
Orzhov - I think you're miscounting here. There's Karlov. If you expand it to a "life totals matter" theme, then only the 2 Teysa's, Daxos and Triad of Fates don't have life payment, or likelink, or something.
Izzet - Ok, two themes. One, draw and ping (poorly grafted together mechanics), and two, Instants and Sorceries. And guess what, most of the spells in these colors either burn or draw.
Sure, if you honestly see a ton of variety in the other enemy guilds, I'm not going to try too hard to talk you out of it and ruin your fun. You'll have to likewise take me as sincere when I say I don't see a lot of variety in Golgari, Izzet, and so on.
Against the context of that too, consider that the criticism of the Boros generals is that they're "too combat oriented", or "don't add value" or something like that. Extremely vague. Every creature in the game is combat oriented, because it's required to have power and toughness. So, you'll have to take me as sincere when I say that I see taking a vastly different approach between Gisela, Kelemne, Aurelia, Iroas, Jor Kadeen, and Tajic. The others I probably wouldn't play, but they are there. I am probably going to do a lot of attacking with either, sure. But I'm also the guy who builds Daxxos 2.0 as Aura-based beatdown, and Melek with Fatal Frenzy. So, it's entirely possible that it's just a different target audience.
Also, the new Avacyn is going to be sick. I plan on doing a lot of attacking with her too, just way more spells and goodstuff than Boros voltron.
The question is, there seems to be a ton of criticism that the Boros generals aren't good, and very few people complaining about the other guilds. Not sure why. If the shoe doesn't fit, play other colors. It's like people are pining for something they think these colors are about, but don't get into the cards.
Combat oriented:
Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran - Ability triggers on it attacking.
Anax and Cymede - Gives buffs and trample... to attack with.
Anya, Merciless Angel - It buffs itself.
Aurelia, the Warleader - Ability triggers on it attacking.
Basandra, Battle Seraph - Makes other things attack.
Iroas, God of Victory - Makes your creatures more effective in combat.
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer - Gives buffs.
Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - Buffs itself.
Razia, Boros Archangel - Saves itself from Lightning bolt and random little creatures in combat?
Tajic, Blade of the Legion - Ability triggers on it attacking.
Not combat oriented:
Brion Stoutarm - Repeatable Fling with lifelink.
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight - Can do quite a bit. Likes to attack, as any creature that deals double damage would, but can be used in a couple of different strategies.
Munda, Ambush Leader - Etb, topdeck sifting, and tribal.
10 out of 13 legendaries are strictly based on combat and abilities pertaining to and assisting in combat. "too combat oriented" isn't vague when it's the only thing these legends do or help to do.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Man, I am also pumped for Archvacyn. It really isn't exactly an "only combat" Boros. It's damage related, obviously, but not strictly through combat. I plan on running Basilisk Collar a ton, along with multiple flicker effects, and then some Repercussion... Ugh, can just release already?
Those generals are about their indestructibility. No other color has as many. And no two other colors have as many cards that blow up the world. Sounds like a theme to me.
And I already said, it's not like I'd consider one "wide" oriented general over the best one. Or another Voltron general over the best one. Having both Jor and Agrus Kos in the same colors shouldn't be an indictment. There are plenty of inferior generals in all colors.
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
But if they do guilds again I wouldn't mind a different Boros general to build around.
Building: Varina
Except Ophidian IS combat oriented when you compare it to Azure Mage or any other "pay to draw cards" creature......
Edric, Spymaster of Trest is combat oriented compared to Azami, Lady of Scrolls, because one actually does require the combat step. You keep saying all creatures are combat oriented, but no one in the more casual sphere doesn't want to see Jhoira of the Ghitu or Niv-Mizzet, dracogenius because of their combat potential...
Weren't you the one who was complaining a couple pages ago about how Izzet doesn't have any combat oriented generals? It seems like you know perfectly well the difference between combat oriented and not, you're just being deliberately obtuse because you don't like the prevailing opinion about Boros. It would help if you stopped honing in on the strawman of "hurr durr Boros players just want card draw" and actually read some of the things that have been suggested, i.e. a general themed around equipment, a hatebears general, a burn/lifegain general, none of which necessarily involves giving Boros recursion or card draw.
Azami, Lady of Scrolls, for example, is in no way a "combat oriented" card. You could make her an enchantment and she'd retain 99.99% of her functionality. "Indestructible" is not a trait that orients a card toward any particular strategy. I mean, all the Theros god cards are indestructible, but that doesn't mean that Ephara, Phenax, Mogis, Karametra, Athreos, Keranos, and Kruphix are necessarily going to play anything alike, because their abilities other than "indestructible" all do different things and synergize with different types of cards. (I also wouldn't call any of them "combat oriented" either - you can certainly plan around keeping them as enchantments!) Anya, Iroas, and Tajic (and many others), on the other hand, all have abilities that only matter in combat. Indestructible is useful at keeping them alive, but there's only a benefit to keeping them alive if you care about attacking and blocking with creatures.
Avatar by Numotflame96 of Maelstrom Graphics
Sig banner thanks to DarkNightCavalier of Heroes of the Plane Studios!
EDIT: You what might help (and maybe this is what half-of-Avacyn accomplishes)? Making a RW character that's not always a protagonist? Oh, you oppose Momir/Phyrexia/the Eldrazi? Maybe if they didn't have to lead us into war constantly, they could be generating some non-combat card advantage for us.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'