I am curious to know what this magic number 6 is about.
Also, I do think that this is comparable to equipment that draws you cards. Particularly if you have no land in hand at the start of your turn, it's directly comparable to that when you are drawing one land off the top. Only Sword of the Animist is worse on the point of putting it into play tapped, and slightly better for shuffling your library. It's only better if you're drawing plenty of land already somehow on Turn 4 or after, which is hard to do outside of a few cards once you deduct the 4 mana from your early game that it takes to get this going. Seeing as how the average deck is 1/3 land, you are failing to draw the 5th land without assistance more than half the time in 11 cards. Since the land from this comes into play tapped, missing drop number 5 on account of casting and equipping this instead of playing something like Ambition's Cost puts you even on mana production on that turn 5.
The basic point is that Turn 4 and on is where you need to be drawing to not waste land drop opportunities.
And, I'm not saying either that this has to be better than Sword of Fire and Ice, Skullclamp, or Mask of Memory to get played. Those are obviously better. It's just that once you're running every option that's better than this, do you still have enough room to run Sword of the Animist? Maybe, maybe not. For me, more often not.
Another angle, is this better than Rogue's Gloves? Maybe, maybe not, depending on the deck. But it's only those decks that I'd argue are too greedy that will opt for Sword over Gloves. And how often have you seen Gloves played, besides?
I am curious to know what this magic number 6 is about.
Also, I do think that this is comparable to equipment that draws you cards. Particularly if you have no land in hand at the start of your turn, it's directly comparable to that when you are drawing one land off the top. Only Sword of the Animist is worse on the point of putting it into play tapped, and slightly better for shuffling your library. It's only better if you're drawing plenty of land already somehow on Turn 4 or after, which is hard to do outside of a few cards once you deduct the 4 mana from your early game that it takes to get this going. Seeing as how the average deck is 1/3 land, you are failing to draw the 5th land without assistance more than half the time in 11 cards. Since the land from this comes into play tapped, missing drop number 5 on account of casting and equipping this instead of playing something like Ambition's Cost puts you even on mana production on that turn 5.
The basic point is that Turn 4 and on is where you need to be drawing to not waste land drop opportunities.
And, I'm not saying either that this has to be better than Sword of Fire and Ice, Skullclamp, or Mask of Memory to get played. Those are obviously better. It's just that once you're running every option that's better than this, do you still have enough room to run Sword of the Animist? Maybe, maybe not. For me, more often not.
Another angle, is this better than Rogue's Gloves? Maybe, maybe not, depending on the deck. But it's only those decks that I'd argue are too greedy that will opt for Sword over Gloves. And how often have you seen Gloves played, besides?
It's better than Gloves because Gloves rely on combat damage while this just asks for an attack to be declared.
It's better than Gloves because Gloves rely on combat damage while this just asks for an attack to be declared.
On the other hand, that makes it much worse with double strike. And when I'm looking for a critter to carry some equipment, that's pretty much the first thing I go for.
It's better than Gloves because Gloves rely on combat damage while this just asks for an attack to be declared.
On the other hand, that makes it much worse with double strike. And when I'm looking for a critter to carry some equipment, that's pretty much the first thing I go for.
It's better than Gloves because Gloves rely on combat damage while this just asks for an attack to be declared.
On the other hand, that makes it much worse with double strike. And when I'm looking for a critter to carry some equipment, that's pretty much the first thing I go for.
For general use, you're probably right, but in an equipment heavy deck, I've found the power of getting multiple triggers from Sword of X&Y, Jitte, Mask etc is worth running some of the more borderline double strikers: Kor Duelist, Skyhunter Skirmisher, Aven Sunstriker, Markov Blademaster etc. And that's the only kind of deck that I would consider running stuff like Rogue's Gloves (as a budget option), so as a direct comparison said gloves, the attack trigger hurts the Sword.
If you're just dropping it into a non-equipment specific deck as a bit of extra ramp/CA, then, certianly, the attack trigger is better. But in such a deck, I'd really consider just running a mana rock most of the time unless I really needed lands (Emeria perhaps?), or some straight up card draw (which everything shy of mono-white can do OK these days).
That's not to say I think this is a bad card. It has a decent effect for its cost, and is defintely worth looking at. But I feel there are probably better options in most of the circumstances you'd consider it.
On green uses, there's Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer and elfball. It lets decks that win with x spells get closer if they haven't gone infinite yet.
Double strikers are really good with damage triggers. If I'm playing something with a damage trigger, like, say, a primordial dragon, I'll include Fireshrieker, even if it's not a Voltron deck. (Though of course, twelve damage each turn makes it a Voltron deck, so...)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
It's better than Gloves because Gloves rely on combat damage while this just asks for an attack to be declared.
On the other hand, that makes it much worse with double strike. And when I'm looking for a critter to carry some equipment, that's pretty much the first thing I go for.
It's better than Gloves because Gloves rely on combat damage while this just asks for an attack to be declared.
On the other hand, that makes it much worse with double strike. And when I'm looking for a critter to carry some equipment, that's pretty much the first thing I go for.
Honestly,probably would run both. If you only have room for one, it depends on the rest of the deck. If you have a solid ramp package anyway do rogues gloves, if there isn't a lot of ramp run the sword. Also, if your deck is a lower curve really aggressive Aurelia deck, run the gloves. If you have more of a midrange deck with a higher curve, the sword.
Well, I pulled one in one of my prize packs at the prerelease.
I think I should put it in the Aurelia, the Warleader deck that I am currently changing into an Iroas, God of Victory my curve stops at four except for extra combat effects and two choice five drops deck that plans to run MLD.
However, I really think my Alesha deck could also use it. I plan to pick up more, but what do y'all think to put this one in?
Well, I pulled one in one of my prize packs at the prerelease.
I think I should put it in the Aurelia, the Warleader deck that I am currently changing into an Iroas, God of Victory my curve stops at four except for extra combat effects and two choice five drops deck that plans to run MLD.
However, I really think my Alesha deck could also use it. I plan to pick up more, but what do y'all think to put this one in?
Hmm...maybe in my Alesha...nah, I'd rather Jitte for that cost.
It's better than Gloves because Gloves rely on combat damage while this just asks for an attack to be declared.
On the other hand, that makes it much worse with double strike. And when I'm looking for a critter to carry some equipment, that's pretty much the first thing I go for.
Honestly? Neither. I actually have an Aurelia deck, and it is pretty equipment focused, so I run many of the double strikers I mentioned earlier (for four sword triggers with my general out...). I used to run Rogue's Gloves and while it was OK, I've now got enough equipment tutors to be happy with better things for card advantage - Sword of Fire and Ice and Mask of Memory both give the same amount of cards per hit as the Gloves, while being much better in other aspects (SoFaI is one mana more for +2/+2, protections and shock, MoM is one mana less to equip and it adds a loot on top of the draw), while later in the game, Sword of Light and Shadow can give me CA by recurring dudes. On top of that, my mana curve is pretty low, with the majority of the cards 3-4 or less (off the top of my head, I've only got 2 CMC 6 cards - Aurelia and Sun Titan, and 2-3 higher - Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Insurrection and, depending on whether I'm entwining or not, Savage Beating), so the ramp of Sword of the Animist is less useful (and Sword of Feast and Famine is better if I want more mana for casting multiple cards per turn).
If I was on a tighter budget and didn't have the Swords of Protection and Value, as well as tutors like Stoneforge Mystic then, were the deck the same otherwise, with just cheaper equipment, I would run the gloves first, due to the synergy with the double striking creatures, but at the same time, without them, I probably wouldn't have so many double strikers and I'd probably want some more higher mana cards to make up for the loss of power at the low end (a Mirran Crusader with a Sword of Fire and Ice is pretty damn strong for a pair of CMC 3 cards...), so the sword might make the cut.
Personally I love this sort of incremental effect that doesn't freak everyone out but gives you steady advantage for a reasonable cost. I'd be most likely to throw this onto a small, evasive token or something and just keep attacking for 2 a turn and fetching out lands. Run a few mana sinks, profit. Can't imagine that it has any super spike application, but it's a solid card, especially in a format that tends to find ways to use 30+ mana per turn.
Has anyone brought up Landfall? At low cost we have Adventuring Gear and at high cost Rampaging Baloths. In a deck dedicated to Equipment, like the kind that run Stoneforge Mystic, Puresteel Paladin, and Leonin Shikari, getting this card onto the field and attached to a creature is trivial. Build around that land drop and the Sword can do wonderful things for your deck. Me, I just like the flavor of Nissa, Vastwood Seer swinging with her sword turn after turn, building up land drops and eventually flipping into her Planeswalker self.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Also, I do think that this is comparable to equipment that draws you cards. Particularly if you have no land in hand at the start of your turn, it's directly comparable to that when you are drawing one land off the top. Only Sword of the Animist is worse on the point of putting it into play tapped, and slightly better for shuffling your library. It's only better if you're drawing plenty of land already somehow on Turn 4 or after, which is hard to do outside of a few cards once you deduct the 4 mana from your early game that it takes to get this going. Seeing as how the average deck is 1/3 land, you are failing to draw the 5th land without assistance more than half the time in 11 cards. Since the land from this comes into play tapped, missing drop number 5 on account of casting and equipping this instead of playing something like Ambition's Cost puts you even on mana production on that turn 5.
The basic point is that Turn 4 and on is where you need to be drawing to not waste land drop opportunities.
And, I'm not saying either that this has to be better than Sword of Fire and Ice, Skullclamp, or Mask of Memory to get played. Those are obviously better. It's just that once you're running every option that's better than this, do you still have enough room to run Sword of the Animist? Maybe, maybe not. For me, more often not.
Another angle, is this better than Rogue's Gloves? Maybe, maybe not, depending on the deck. But it's only those decks that I'd argue are too greedy that will opt for Sword over Gloves. And how often have you seen Gloves played, besides?
It's better than Gloves because Gloves rely on combat damage while this just asks for an attack to be declared.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Maybe some day they will. It'd certainly help my Bellstriker AiR if people just block with their faces.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
On the other hand, that makes it much worse with double strike. And when I'm looking for a critter to carry some equipment, that's pretty much the first thing I go for.
There's not many good double strikers though. Mirran Crusader and Silverblade Palladin and...Warren Instigator?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Yes. I suppose six mana enchantments do help you win more with card draw equipments.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
For general use, you're probably right, but in an equipment heavy deck, I've found the power of getting multiple triggers from Sword of X&Y, Jitte, Mask etc is worth running some of the more borderline double strikers: Kor Duelist, Skyhunter Skirmisher, Aven Sunstriker, Markov Blademaster etc. And that's the only kind of deck that I would consider running stuff like Rogue's Gloves (as a budget option), so as a direct comparison said gloves, the attack trigger hurts the Sword.
If you're just dropping it into a non-equipment specific deck as a bit of extra ramp/CA, then, certianly, the attack trigger is better. But in such a deck, I'd really consider just running a mana rock most of the time unless I really needed lands (Emeria perhaps?), or some straight up card draw (which everything shy of mono-white can do OK these days).
That's not to say I think this is a bad card. It has a decent effect for its cost, and is defintely worth looking at. But I feel there are probably better options in most of the circumstances you'd consider it.
Double strikers are really good with damage triggers. If I'm playing something with a damage trigger, like, say, a primordial dragon, I'll include Fireshrieker, even if it's not a Voltron deck. (Though of course, twelve damage each turn makes it a Voltron deck, so...)
On phasing:
Which would you include first in a Aurelia, the Warleader deck?
Honestly,probably would run both. If you only have room for one, it depends on the rest of the deck. If you have a solid ramp package anyway do rogues gloves, if there isn't a lot of ramp run the sword. Also, if your deck is a lower curve really aggressive Aurelia deck, run the gloves. If you have more of a midrange deck with a higher curve, the sword.
Edit: woohoo post number 300
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
I think I should put it in the Aurelia, the Warleader deck that I am currently changing into an Iroas, God of Victory my curve stops at four except for extra combat effects and two choice five drops deck that plans to run MLD.
However, I really think my Alesha deck could also use it. I plan to pick up more, but what do y'all think to put this one in?
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
Hmm...maybe in my Alesha...nah, I'd rather Jitte for that cost.
But maaaybbbeeee............
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Honestly? Neither. I actually have an Aurelia deck, and it is pretty equipment focused, so I run many of the double strikers I mentioned earlier (for four sword triggers with my general out...). I used to run Rogue's Gloves and while it was OK, I've now got enough equipment tutors to be happy with better things for card advantage - Sword of Fire and Ice and Mask of Memory both give the same amount of cards per hit as the Gloves, while being much better in other aspects (SoFaI is one mana more for +2/+2, protections and shock, MoM is one mana less to equip and it adds a loot on top of the draw), while later in the game, Sword of Light and Shadow can give me CA by recurring dudes. On top of that, my mana curve is pretty low, with the majority of the cards 3-4 or less (off the top of my head, I've only got 2 CMC 6 cards - Aurelia and Sun Titan, and 2-3 higher - Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Insurrection and, depending on whether I'm entwining or not, Savage Beating), so the ramp of Sword of the Animist is less useful (and Sword of Feast and Famine is better if I want more mana for casting multiple cards per turn).
If I was on a tighter budget and didn't have the Swords of Protection and Value, as well as tutors like Stoneforge Mystic then, were the deck the same otherwise, with just cheaper equipment, I would run the gloves first, due to the synergy with the double striking creatures, but at the same time, without them, I probably wouldn't have so many double strikers and I'd probably want some more higher mana cards to make up for the loss of power at the low end (a Mirran Crusader with a Sword of Fire and Ice is pretty damn strong for a pair of CMC 3 cards...), so the sword might make the cut.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.