I guess if you don't care about having a cool commander, then with the fixing available it's probably better to play 5-color, or at least 3-color, for every deck. But then why are you playing EDH? Go play legacy or something.
Not sure where this comes from. I was pointing out fetchlands as something that is more homogenizing to magic as a whole than this off-beat green card.
I play commander for the flavor as well. Were it not for commander, I might not play magic at all. I don't play off-color fetches either. If your comment was intended for me.
I didn't mean "you" as you, specifically, but an imaginary person I'm talking to who's playing 5-color every game and ignoring their commander.
Not sure I agree that fetches are terribly homogenizing. Yes, they're played frequently but it doesn't drastically change what each color can DO (other than fix mana). Games don't all play out the same way because of fetches, they just make it easier to get colors reliably (which makes it easier to play multicolor, which has its disadvantages, but still).
The point of a game is to have restrictions and to have to find creative ways to work around it.
Says the guy who recently complained about how.restrictive EDH is because you can't play Hybrid cards in mono colored decks and who purposefully tried to make extort only available.in black white.
The point of a game is to have restrictions and to have to find creative ways to work around it.
Says the guy who recently complained about how.restrictive EDH is because you can't play Hybrid cards in mono colored decks and who purposefully tried to make extort only available.in black white.
I can't take anything he says seriously now.
I don't think he totally "gets" EDH. He talks about MTG as a whole (which primarily means standard, limited, and modern).
He doesn't get the value of the color identity rules, because he's nto a commander player. But he does understand the value of the color pie, because that applies to magic as a whole.
I don't think he totally "gets" EDH. He talks about MTG as a whole (which primarily means standard, limited, and modern).
He doesn't get the value of the color identity rules, because he's nto a commander player. But he does understand the value of the color pie, because that applies to magic as a whole.
That might be true, but he specifically states EDH is moving away from playing Magic. If his issue is with the color pie, stay on topic. It just seems like a cheap shot at EDH because he does not like how extort works, that Chaos Warp exists, and we don't use hybrids 'his way'.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I don't think he totally "gets" EDH. He talks about MTG as a whole (which primarily means standard, limited, and modern).
He doesn't get the value of the color identity rules, because he's nto a commander player. But he does understand the value of the color pie, because that applies to magic as a whole.
That might be true, but he specifically states EDH is moving away from playing Magic. If his issue is with the color pie, stay on topic. It just seems like a cheap shot at EDH because he does not like how extort works, that Chaos Warp exists, and we don't use hybrids 'his way'.
He feels that way about legacy too.
Do you similarly feel that Legacy has or is drifting away from the color pie and magic as a whole, due to both having access to the early game color pie mistakes and the ones being printed for commander?
Yes, I do.
It's not the format or the hybrid rules, it's the card pool.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Can't really say I disagree with him. Song of the Dryads should've been green/white. Like Chaos Warp however, I am not above capitalizing on mistakes :3c
The point of a game is to have restrictions and to have to find creative ways to work around it.
Says the guy who recently complained about how.restrictive EDH is because you can't play Hybrid cards in mono colored decks and who purposefully tried to make extort only available.in black white.
I can't take anything he says seriously now.
His problem with Hybrid is that Hybrid cards' color identifies shouldn't count as being gold cards. It's an arbitrary restriction that makes no sense. Meanwhile Green Arrest abilities allow players to do things the game is not supposed to allow at all, and is actually more detrimental to the format than Hybrid cards.
But he does understand the value of the color pie, because that applies to magic as a whole.
Does he though?
From his blog:
mcsleuthburger said: Maybe people would like blue if their creature issue was more pronounced, currently they don't seem to have any more of a disadvantage than black or red, and as the color with flying and hexproof this tends to be a bigger deal. I see that blue creatures are "weaker" because they often need spells to be good but their spells are good, so it's not the same as say making red creatures depend on spells because their spells aren't as versatile and self sustaining.
MaRo: Let’s play a format I’ll call Creature Duel. The rules are you can play only basic land and creatures. The format uses Standard legal cards. I get the monogreen deck and you get the mono blue deck. Who has a better chance of winning?
This is his actual response to someone regarding blue creatures. If anything, this shows a view ignoring magic as a whole.
Anyways, from what I've been reading, especially MaRo's responses to people about the color pie, is that he really only cares about standard anyways so I'm not sure why he feels the need to call out Commander. I appreciate the responses from everyone. I'm not really that worried any more about what MaRo says regarding magic, especially commander. I think I'm going to just hop on the boat with people that disregard the things he says on his blog.
But he does understand the value of the color pie, because that applies to magic as a whole.
Does he though?
From his blog:
mcsleuthburger said: Maybe people would like blue if their creature issue was more pronounced, currently they don't seem to have any more of a disadvantage than black or red, and as the color with flying and hexproof this tends to be a bigger deal. I see that blue creatures are "weaker" because they often need spells to be good but their spells are good, so it's not the same as say making red creatures depend on spells because their spells aren't as versatile and self sustaining.
MaRo: Let’s play a format I’ll call Creature Duel. The rules are you can play only basic land and creatures. The format uses Standard legal cards. I get the monogreen deck and you get the mono blue deck. Who has a better chance of winning?
This is his actual response to someone regarding blue creatures. If anything, this shows a view ignoring magic as a whole.
Anyways, from what I've been reading, especially MaRo's responses to people about the color pie, is that he really only cares about standard anyways so I'm not sure why he feels the need to call out Commander. I appreciate the responses from everyone. I'm not really that worried any more about what MaRo says regarding magic, especially commander. I think I'm going to just hop on the boat with people that disregard the things he says on his blog.
Huh? his example was to show that blue is weak in creatures, and I'd say it does that. Ofc, because we play magic and not creature duel, blue makes up that disadvantage in its other cards. Ideally in final consideration, all colors should be equal.
It's not that he only cares about standard - it's that he cares about new cards. Usually that means standard cards that will have their biggest impact within standard. He sees legacy, vintage, and commander as being unfixably "broken" in terms of the color pie, but there's nothing that can be done about what already exists. So he directs his efforts on new stuff rather than complaining about mistakes made a long time ago.
and again - he's not calling out the format, he's calling out the cards. I'm sure he'd be even more pissed if it were printed in a standard-legal set.
His problem with Hybrid is that Hybrid cards' color identifies shouldn't count as being gold cards. It's an arbitrary restriction that makes no sense.
You and he do not agree with the rule, that does not mean it does not make sense. It has been explained countless times, and DOES make sense.
Meanwhile Green Arrest abilities allow players to do things the game is not supposed to allow at all, and is actually more detrimental to the format than Hybrid cards.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
You and he do not agree with the rule, that does not mean it does not make sense. It has been explained countless times, and DOES make sense.
So it's alright for colors to get cards that allow them to do things they're not supposed to, but giving them access things that they are actually allowed to do is a non-no. Gotcha.
These cards already existed, look around.
Those cards were made in a time where the game was bad, and the later ones were only made because the broken, original ones were used as precedents. That's Maro's problem with this. Now that Song of the Dryads is printed, it increases the chances of more color pie violations to be printed because now it's a precedent.
He sees legacy, vintage, and commander as being unfixably "broken" in terms of the color pie, but there's nothing that can be done about what already exists.
Then why does he continue to say the things he says involving Commander?
and again - he's not calling out the format, he's calling out the cards. I'm sure he'd be even more pissed if it were printed in a standard-legal set.
Saying Commander drifts farther and farther away from being magic feels an awful lot like a shot at the format, we interpret it differently, that is fine.
A lot of this discussion comes from opinions. In the years that follow, this may be part of Green's identity, if it wasn't already or already apparent, just not used.
Before Oblivion Ring, I never saw many straight up Exile effects in white (my knowledge of older cards is limited) with the exception being devouring light. I mean, cards like Momentary Blink is regarding a allied W and U ability to blink. G and W could share enchantment-to-exile ability, but in different veins (W goes enchantment, G goes Aura, as W purges, G transforms).
Who's to actually say G will never have these abilities? Just the fact that it is an Aura makes it weaker then O-Ring or Banishing Light.
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60 Card Casual Multiplayer: B Dark Ides Life DrainR Rekindle Skies Phoenix TribalWB Veil Oath Tokens BR Brutal Scourge Eldrazi TribalRW Edge Worthy Mid-Range AggroGU Wisp Away Combo GWU Vigorous Flow Energy
Commander / EDH: RFeldon of the Third Path GURashmi, Eternities Crafter RWBMathas, Fiend Hunter GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice
Then why does he continue to say the things he says involving Commander?
Because it's literally his job and passion to care about this game
Saying Commander drifts farther and farther away from being magic feels an awful lot like a shot at the format, we interpret it differently, that is fine.
It's the reality of the situation, and it creates problems for him as a designer and the game as a whole.
It's the reality of the situation, and it creates problems for him as a designer and the game as a whole.
To be frank, since Commander / EDH isn't a official format for Wizards, or shouldn't be, and while his opinion is appreciate as someone on the inside, ultimately is just as valid as anyone else's considering that.
Don't totally agree or disagree with him. His concern has real merit, but it sounds a bit too absolute to be flexible.
EDIT: I know he also references the eternal formats, but I speak of EDH specifically. As I stated, I neither agree or disagree totally.
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60 Card Casual Multiplayer: B Dark Ides Life DrainR Rekindle Skies Phoenix TribalWB Veil Oath Tokens BR Brutal Scourge Eldrazi TribalRW Edge Worthy Mid-Range AggroGU Wisp Away Combo GWU Vigorous Flow Energy
Commander / EDH: RFeldon of the Third Path GURashmi, Eternities Crafter RWBMathas, Fiend Hunter GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice
master of waves doesn't really function like "tons of tokens" because you only need to kill the master to remove the tokens. It's like how phantasmal dragon (if I may pull an example from his blog) is okay because it's just the illusion of efficiency, master is just wide instead of tall.
How about Chasm Skulker, then? It makes tokens upon dying, and card draw is easily attained, even/especially in standard (Eidolon of Blossoms, Ordeal of Thassa, Font of Fortunes - all of which are reasonable in color, even Eidolon who has a history in Enchantress).
And while we're on about that, how about Thassa, or Tromokratis, Lorthos, or other such HUGE BLUE THINGS? lol
I like MaRo but as a consumer of what he produces, I am appalled with his stance on a format which brings in SO MANY PLAYERS to his domain? I feel like as Head Designer in general, he should have a say in stopping things like Song and Chaos Warp from existing.
and again - he's not calling out the format, he's calling out the cards. I'm sure he'd be even more pissed if it were printed in a standard-legal set.
One statement in support of this assessment is MaRo's own articles in which he states the opinion that Beast Within was a major mistake.
Personally, I think he's seriously overreacting. I rather doubt Song of the Dryads is going to create any more problems in any format than Lignify has. I also don't see what is wrong with having G be secondary or tertiary in transmutation sorts of effects, since there's a long history of such effects (Reincarnation, for example), and since it is no stretch at all to justify them in flavor.
He sees legacy, vintage, and commander as being unfixably "broken" in terms of the color pie, but there's nothing that can be done about what already exists.
Then why does he continue to say the things he says involving Commander?
and again - he's not calling out the format, he's calling out the cards. I'm sure he'd be even more pissed if it were printed in a standard-legal set.
Saying Commander drifts farther and farther away from being magic feels an awful lot like a shot at the format, we interpret it differently, that is fine.
I put a direct quote from his - he feels the exact same thing about legacy. Because they share the same(ish) pool, and it's about the pool, not about the format.
You could argue that he's taking a shot at the precons and the color-pie-breaking cards they introduce with a greater frequency than standard-legal sets, but that's the precons, not the format as a whole. I don't think he actually cares that much about the format, as he's more involved in other formats.
Like I said, he doesn't really "get" EDH but he has a valid concern about some cards, many of which are being printed in the precons. I mean, who really cares if he's taking a shot at EDH anyway? I don't really care if he likes the format or not. I do care that the color pie stays the way it ought to be, though, and that's what he's arguing for.
I think the reason why he used Commander as an example is simply because it's the hot mess right now..if it were crazy wacky fun he would be citing crazy wacky fun.
master of waves doesn't really function like "tons of tokens" because you only need to kill the master to remove the tokens. It's like how phantasmal dragon (if I may pull an example from his blog) is okay because it's just the illusion of efficiency, master is just wide instead of tall.
How about Chasm Skulker, then? It makes tokens upon dying, and card draw is easily attained, even/especially in standard (Eidolon of Blossoms, Ordeal of Thassa, Font of Fortunes - all of which are reasonable in color, even Eidolon who has a history in Enchantress).
And while we're on about that, how about Thassa, or Tromokratis, Lorthos, or other such HUGE BLUE THINGS? lol
I like MaRo but as a consumer of what he produces, I am appalled with his stance on a format which brings in SO MANY PLAYERS to his domain? I feel like as Head Designer in general, he should have a say in stopping things like Song and Chaos Warp from existing.
~Lil Kalki
Thassa is (very) conditional. The other 2 are large, but not particularly efficient in terms of p/t. At any rate, blue does get some huge, very expensive finishers, I think it's biggest weakness is more towards the small/midrange part of the spectrum.
Chasm skulker is a little more color-pie-breaking, but it does grow based on a blue strength (draw), and it's also too slow to be considered "efficient" as a beater or a token-maker in terms of standard (afaik, I don't play standard). It's best when used with draw spells - which is part of how blue is supposed to work (it's creature suck, but have strong spell support). I think you could argue either way.
So it's alright for colors to get cards that allow them to do things they're not supposed to, but giving them access things that they are actually allowed to do is a non-no. Gotcha.
you cant make an easy rule that restricts by color pie. The rule that exists is easy to understand and covers as much as can be easily covered. Vintage card pool has some crazy stuff in it to be sure. Hybrids dont belong in off color in EDH, thats what can be controlled.
Those cards were made in a time where the game was bad, and the later ones were only made because the broken, original ones were used as precedents. That's Maro's problem with this. Now that Song of the Dryads is printed, it increases the chances of more color pie violations to be printed because now it's a precedent.
Some were and some are more recent. MaRo has the inside edge to do something about it and fails. Either other people want it or think players do, but to say EDH is getting away from playing Magic is silly.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I honestly find it odd that he feels an enchantment that "destroys" one land, something mono green has many ways of doing already, is something that is extremely outside the color wheel when you have wave of vitriol as(i believe) green's first foray into effective mass land destruction with Wave of Vitriol, seems like giving the master ramp color a way to set everyone's color fixing and destroying all nice utility lands is a little powerful.
Long-term plans is horribad compared to vampiric tutor. Actually it's mostly just horribad in general although it does have some uses.
Are you kidding? LTP is an excellent blue card. Is Vampiric Tutor better? Of course! It costs 2 less and puts the tutored card 2 higher in the deck! That doesn't make LTP "horribad"; getting the tutored card quickly is pretty trivial, especially in blue. Hell, just Sensei's Top is enough to put the card into your hand, if you need it.
Countersquall, Psychic Barrier, Vapor Snag; Blue CAN deal life damage. One of those cards is U/B, and the other two are blue effects with an extremely minor life rider due to phyrexian flavor. Blue has never gotten anything close to Shock in terms of efficiency in modern magic.
Normally I avoid color pie debates, bout this post was so bad I just had to chime in.
Meanwhile blue has huge creature issues. Yes, it has more spell mechanics. It’s the spell color. What it lacks is creature mechanics because it’s the worst at creatures. Blue has to have spells to deal with creatures because its creatures usually aren’t up to the task.
It's stuff like this that makes me ask: does Maro even PLAY Magic?
1) Someone once said: "Playing green in Magic is like playing Portal." And it's true. Maro (and R&D to a lesser extent) has defined Blue as being the thinking, tricky, controlling color. But Magic is a thinking, tricky, controlling game. And as long as they take that philosophy, they can't help but make all the best cards blue
2) Green is the "creature color," and that's about it. But every color is allowed to get good creatures, so even if green gets great creatures and everyone else gets good creatures, it's at a disadvantage to all the effects where one color gets great [effect] and all other colors get bad [effect], if they get them at all.
3) But green doesn't even get great creatures. In most blocks and sets, the best creature isn't green. Maro says Blue is supposedly "weak" in creatyres and even in the post-"blue is ridiculous" world it's gotten Snapcaster, Delver, Aetherling, True-Name-Nemesis...
4) Who cares if green gets "efficient" big creatures? A 7/7 for 7 still, frankly, sucks. And it's obvious to anyone (except Maro?) that at 1,2, or 3 cmc, green sure as heck doesn't get the best or most efficient creatures (aside from goyf of course)
5) It's absurd that Maro defends things like Pongify by saying "that IS a blue effect, because blue has had it ever since mirage" and then dismisses things like Desert Twister saying "old cards don't count because the color pie was violated all the time back then"
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Not sure I agree that fetches are terribly homogenizing. Yes, they're played frequently but it doesn't drastically change what each color can DO (other than fix mana). Games don't all play out the same way because of fetches, they just make it easier to get colors reliably (which makes it easier to play multicolor, which has its disadvantages, but still).
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Says the guy who recently complained about how.restrictive EDH is because you can't play Hybrid cards in mono colored decks and who purposefully tried to make extort only available.in black white.
I can't take anything he says seriously now.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
He doesn't get the value of the color identity rules, because he's nto a commander player. But he does understand the value of the color pie, because that applies to magic as a whole.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
It's not the format or the hybrid rules, it's the card pool.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
His problem with Hybrid is that Hybrid cards' color identifies shouldn't count as being gold cards. It's an arbitrary restriction that makes no sense. Meanwhile Green Arrest abilities allow players to do things the game is not supposed to allow at all, and is actually more detrimental to the format than Hybrid cards.
Does he though?
From his blog:
This is his actual response to someone regarding blue creatures. If anything, this shows a view ignoring magic as a whole.
Anyways, from what I've been reading, especially MaRo's responses to people about the color pie, is that he really only cares about standard anyways so I'm not sure why he feels the need to call out Commander. I appreciate the responses from everyone. I'm not really that worried any more about what MaRo says regarding magic, especially commander. I think I'm going to just hop on the boat with people that disregard the things he says on his blog.
It's not that he only cares about standard - it's that he cares about new cards. Usually that means standard cards that will have their biggest impact within standard. He sees legacy, vintage, and commander as being unfixably "broken" in terms of the color pie, but there's nothing that can be done about what already exists. So he directs his efforts on new stuff rather than complaining about mistakes made a long time ago.
and again - he's not calling out the format, he's calling out the cards. I'm sure he'd be even more pissed if it were printed in a standard-legal set.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
So it's alright for colors to get cards that allow them to do things they're not supposed to, but giving them access things that they are actually allowed to do is a non-no. Gotcha.
Those cards were made in a time where the game was bad, and the later ones were only made because the broken, original ones were used as precedents. That's Maro's problem with this. Now that Song of the Dryads is printed, it increases the chances of more color pie violations to be printed because now it's a precedent.
Then why does he continue to say the things he says involving Commander?
Saying Commander drifts farther and farther away from being magic feels an awful lot like a shot at the format, we interpret it differently, that is fine.
Before Oblivion Ring, I never saw many straight up Exile effects in white (my knowledge of older cards is limited) with the exception being devouring light. I mean, cards like Momentary Blink is regarding a allied W and U ability to blink. G and W could share enchantment-to-exile ability, but in different veins (W goes enchantment, G goes Aura, as W purges, G transforms).
Who's to actually say G will never have these abilities? Just the fact that it is an Aura makes it weaker then O-Ring or Banishing Light.
B Dark Ides Life DrainR Rekindle Skies Phoenix TribalWB Veil Oath Tokens
BR Brutal Scourge Eldrazi TribalRW Edge Worthy Mid-Range AggroGU Wisp Away Combo
GWU Vigorous Flow Energy
Commander / EDH:
RFeldon of the Third Path
GURashmi, Eternities Crafter
RWBMathas, Fiend Hunter
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice
Because it's literally his job and passion to care about this game
It's the reality of the situation, and it creates problems for him as a designer and the game as a whole.
To be frank, since Commander / EDH isn't a official format for Wizards, or shouldn't be, and while his opinion is appreciate as someone on the inside, ultimately is just as valid as anyone else's considering that.
Don't totally agree or disagree with him. His concern has real merit, but it sounds a bit too absolute to be flexible.
EDIT: I know he also references the eternal formats, but I speak of EDH specifically. As I stated, I neither agree or disagree totally.
B Dark Ides Life DrainR Rekindle Skies Phoenix TribalWB Veil Oath Tokens
BR Brutal Scourge Eldrazi TribalRW Edge Worthy Mid-Range AggroGU Wisp Away Combo
GWU Vigorous Flow Energy
Commander / EDH:
RFeldon of the Third Path
GURashmi, Eternities Crafter
RWBMathas, Fiend Hunter
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice
How about Chasm Skulker, then? It makes tokens upon dying, and card draw is easily attained, even/especially in standard (Eidolon of Blossoms, Ordeal of Thassa, Font of Fortunes - all of which are reasonable in color, even Eidolon who has a history in Enchantress).
And while we're on about that, how about Thassa, or Tromokratis, Lorthos, or other such HUGE BLUE THINGS? lol
I like MaRo but as a consumer of what he produces, I am appalled with his stance on a format which brings in SO MANY PLAYERS to his domain? I feel like as Head Designer in general, he should have a say in stopping things like Song and Chaos Warp from existing.
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
One statement in support of this assessment is MaRo's own articles in which he states the opinion that Beast Within was a major mistake.
Personally, I think he's seriously overreacting. I rather doubt Song of the Dryads is going to create any more problems in any format than Lignify has. I also don't see what is wrong with having G be secondary or tertiary in transmutation sorts of effects, since there's a long history of such effects (Reincarnation, for example), and since it is no stretch at all to justify them in flavor.
You could argue that he's taking a shot at the precons and the color-pie-breaking cards they introduce with a greater frequency than standard-legal sets, but that's the precons, not the format as a whole. I don't think he actually cares that much about the format, as he's more involved in other formats.
Like I said, he doesn't really "get" EDH but he has a valid concern about some cards, many of which are being printed in the precons. I mean, who really cares if he's taking a shot at EDH anyway? I don't really care if he likes the format or not. I do care that the color pie stays the way it ought to be, though, and that's what he's arguing for.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Chasm skulker is a little more color-pie-breaking, but it does grow based on a blue strength (draw), and it's also too slow to be considered "efficient" as a beater or a token-maker in terms of standard (afaik, I don't play standard). It's best when used with draw spells - which is part of how blue is supposed to work (it's creature suck, but have strong spell support). I think you could argue either way.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Some were and some are more recent. MaRo has the inside edge to do something about it and fails. Either other people want it or think players do, but to say EDH is getting away from playing Magic is silly.
How about Psychic Allergy, Psychic Purge, Psychic Venom, Apprentice Sorcerer, Capricious Sorcerer, Energy Vortex, Errant Minion, Feedback, Fledgling Mawcor, Mawcor, Mind Bomb, Priate Ship, Power Leak, Prodigal Sorcerer, Psionic Blast, Psionic Entity, Psionic Sliver, Relic Bind, Reveka, Wizard Savant, Rootwater Hunter, Soul Barrier, Stinging Barrier, Suq'Ata Firewalker, Thornwind Faeries, Volcanic Eruption, Wu Longbowman, Zuran Spellcaster
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
It's stuff like this that makes me ask: does Maro even PLAY Magic?
1) Someone once said: "Playing green in Magic is like playing Portal." And it's true. Maro (and R&D to a lesser extent) has defined Blue as being the thinking, tricky, controlling color. But Magic is a thinking, tricky, controlling game. And as long as they take that philosophy, they can't help but make all the best cards blue
2) Green is the "creature color," and that's about it. But every color is allowed to get good creatures, so even if green gets great creatures and everyone else gets good creatures, it's at a disadvantage to all the effects where one color gets great [effect] and all other colors get bad [effect], if they get them at all.
3) But green doesn't even get great creatures. In most blocks and sets, the best creature isn't green. Maro says Blue is supposedly "weak" in creatyres and even in the post-"blue is ridiculous" world it's gotten Snapcaster, Delver, Aetherling, True-Name-Nemesis...
4) Who cares if green gets "efficient" big creatures? A 7/7 for 7 still, frankly, sucks. And it's obvious to anyone (except Maro?) that at 1,2, or 3 cmc, green sure as heck doesn't get the best or most efficient creatures (aside from goyf of course)
5) It's absurd that Maro defends things like Pongify by saying "that IS a blue effect, because blue has had it ever since mirage" and then dismisses things like Desert Twister saying "old cards don't count because the color pie was violated all the time back then"