The last two times I have seen someone cast Pact of Negation, they forgot to pay for it in their upkeep. The first guy conceded when I pointed it out to him (I think he was in his combat step at this point?); the second guy had just dropped a land but backtracked to his upkeep to pay for it. I didn't make a big deal out of it in either case, but they were both League games.
1. Do you let your opponents take it back? On one hand, if it's just a casual game, it doesn't matter that much who wins. On the other hand, even in a casual setting, I feel like honestly managing your "you lose the game" triggers is a responsibility you take on yourself when you choose to play otherwise bah-roken cards like the pacts.
2. If you plan to point out a missed Pact trigger in a casual setting, how long should you wait before calling your opponent on it? I don't want to be the guy that immediately says "you drew a card! GOTCHA!" but, hey, a win is a win, so... when is the best time to mention it?
Sounds about right. If you're in a tournament, you should have a system set up to remind yourself, like putting a quarter on top of your deck.
They are pretty annoying to always manage though, so I definitely have a lot of sympathy for people who forget. I always feel a little anxiety when I include one of them in a deck.
I'm pretty casual, so I don't mind pointing it out. Honestly, I think I'd probably help point it out in a tournament as well. Winning/losing like that is not very fun for anybody involved, I think.
That being said, it's recently become common practice in my group to set the pact card face-up on top of the library until it's paid for, so people rarely miss the trigger anyway.
I'm pretty casual, so I don't mind pointing it out. Honestly, I think I'd probably help point it out in a tournament as well. Winning/losing like that is not very fun for anybody involved, I think.
That being said, it's recently become common practice in my group to set the pact card face-up on top of the library until it's paid for, so people rarely miss the trigger anyway.
that's how we do it works great...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: UWG Bant Control
EDH: UArcum Dagsson
Modern: Affinity
Vintage: BUR Grixis Control
Legacy: W Mono-White : U Merfolk : BUG Esper Stoneblade : RBG Punishing Jund : B Reanimator : RU Sneak and Show : GB Infect : RG Red/Green Devotion : RUG RUG Delver
I'm pretty casual, so I don't mind pointing it out. Honestly, I think I'd probably help point it out in a tournament as well. Winning/losing like that is not very fun for anybody involved, I think.
That being said, it's recently become common practice in my group to set the pact card face-up on top of the library until it's paid for, so people rarely miss the trigger anyway.
After I forgot a slaughter pact....I started doing this
As for pointing it out in a tournament - no way. In a casual setting I always remind them by the time they draw, if they forget during their untap or upkeep.
[EDH] It's built to be a casual format and to a specific vision, and if you don't like the vision, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to change to accommodate everyone. Big tent is not a goal.
When this happens I generally wait until they draw a card and tell them they lost, then when they look confused I remind them. They pay, we laugh, and for the rest of the game I refuse to acknowledge anything they do which affects me (because they lost already).
In a casual environment, yeah, I agree with everyone else, just rewind the game, and make them pay for their pact.
In a tournament setting... I dunno... I guess it depends on how they've been as a person, and if I desperately need that win. If they're nice, I'll let them rewind the game. If they're a jerk, they're getting a loss.
When this happens I generally wait until they draw a card and tell them they lost, then when they look confused I remind them. They pay, we laugh, and for the rest of the game I refuse to acknowledge anything they do which affects me (because they lost already).
Maybe it's just me, but this kind of sounds like a dick move. Either they lost and they're out of the game and they don't keep playing, or you let them go back and pay and continue as normal. Letting them keep playing but just ignoring whatever they do just feels childish to me.
As for how my group treats it, we will let people pay as long as its within a reasonable amount of time. Usually as long as they remember it before their combat step, we will let it slide. If they get beyond that, it's likely that the game state has changed enough that backtracking isn't ideal.
It would depend on who I was playing against if I would let it slide or not.
Since I play multiplayer and not 1v1, I'd also hear what the other players in the game want to do and if they want to take a hardline or be lenient.
I *loathe* Pacts in multiplayer for this exact reason.
They always cause drama, as some people in a game will always look to their strategic interests to decide how to handle the situation. So if Alice forgets a Pact, and controls something that is harming Bob (like an Ensnaring Bridge), Bob will want Alice out of the game, while Charlie (who is only alive because that bridge is stopping Bob killing him) will want Alice to remain in the game.
Is it legal in a tournament setting to set the card face up on top of your library?
I'm not asking this to be a rules lawyer, and I certainly don't mind anyone in my EDH playgroup doing it, I'm just asking for future reference.
No, you can't put anything that could be mistaken for a card on top of your library, including an actual card. That's why people use other things like dice, coins, etc.
I wait until they draw a card and then remind them that they've forgotten to pay their trigger. Then, we rewind. I don't play in a league, so all my games are casual. As others have pointed out, it is a common practice to put pacts or cards with rebound triggers and such on top of your library to remind you that they are still relevant.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
PET PEEVES
Backseat Mods - if you're not a moderator, stop quoting rules. No hall monitors needed.
Maybe it's just me, but this kind of sounds like a dick move. Either they lost and they're out of the game and they don't keep playing, or you let them go back and pay and continue as normal. Letting them keep playing but just ignoring whatever they do just feels childish to me.
As for how my group treats it, we will let people pay as long as its within a reasonable amount of time. Usually as long as they remember it before their combat step, we will let it slide. If they get beyond that, it's likely that the game state has changed enough that backtracking isn't ideal.
It was a joke that probably didn't translate well to text. I meant we *all* laugh (together, not at). And if I don't acknowledge, it's in a joking, non-serious manner.
Maybe it's just me, but this kind of sounds like a dick move. Either they lost and they're out of the game and they don't keep playing, or you let them go back and pay and continue as normal. Letting them keep playing but just ignoring whatever they do just feels childish to me.
As for how my group treats it, we will let people pay as long as its within a reasonable amount of time. Usually as long as they remember it before their combat step, we will let it slide. If they get beyond that, it's likely that the game state has changed enough that backtracking isn't ideal.
It was a joke that probably didn't translate well to text. I meant we *all* laugh (together, not at). And if I don't acknowledge, it's in a joking, non-serious manner.
Oh alright, good. I was hoping it was a joke, but I guess that just wasn't the impression I got from the post. Sorry for calling you a dick.
I've known some players who would force the issue, even if others would let it slide. But then, I think they might have acted that way out of insecurity more than anything.
Personally, I'd handle it with the same question you'd ask a shoplifter: "are you going to pay for that?"
Is it legal in a tournament setting to set the card face up on top of your library?
I'm not asking this to be a rules lawyer, and I certainly don't mind anyone in my EDH playgroup doing it, I'm just asking for future reference.
No, you can't put anything that could be mistaken for a card on top of your library, including an actual card. That's why people use other things like dice, coins, etc.
If there's something on the line, I'll stay quiet until I can point out when they've lost. Funny story - I had an opponent once who used a pact and put a dice on top of his library so he wouldn't forget during his upkeep. On my turn, I cast Primal Command and made him shuffle his graveyard into his library. He didn't put the dice back, and forgot to pay for pact on his next upkeep.
In casual though, I'll remind people and let them pay for it if they forget.
I've known some players who would force the issue, even if others would let it slide. But then, I think they might have acted that way out of insecurity more than anything.
Personally, I'd handle it with the same question you'd ask a shoplifter: "are you going to pay for that?"
Exactly this, or in a casual game, i would say "pay it next upkeep" and not give them another chance if they forgot again.
You remember the mistakes through failure imo. That's how i was taught.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They call me Hank Hill because I bring the pro-pain.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1. Do you let your opponents take it back? On one hand, if it's just a casual game, it doesn't matter that much who wins. On the other hand, even in a casual setting, I feel like honestly managing your "you lose the game" triggers is a responsibility you take on yourself when you choose to play otherwise bah-roken cards like the pacts.
2. If you plan to point out a missed Pact trigger in a casual setting, how long should you wait before calling your opponent on it? I don't want to be the guy that immediately says "you drew a card! GOTCHA!" but, hey, a win is a win, so... when is the best time to mention it?
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
In tournaments, I take my win.
Sounds about right. If you're in a tournament, you should have a system set up to remind yourself, like putting a quarter on top of your deck.
They are pretty annoying to always manage though, so I definitely have a lot of sympathy for people who forget. I always feel a little anxiety when I include one of them in a deck.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
That being said, it's recently become common practice in my group to set the pact card face-up on top of the library until it's paid for, so people rarely miss the trigger anyway.
that's how we do it
Standard: UWG Bant Control
EDH: UArcum Dagsson
Modern: Affinity
Vintage: BUR Grixis Control
Legacy: W Mono-White : U Merfolk : BUG Esper Stoneblade : RBG Punishing Jund : B Reanimator : RU Sneak and Show : GB Infect : RG Red/Green Devotion : RUG RUG Delver
After I forgot a slaughter pact....I started doing this
As for pointing it out in a tournament - no way. In a casual setting I always remind them by the time they draw, if they forget during their untap or upkeep.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
In a tournament setting... I dunno... I guess it depends on how they've been as a person, and if I desperately need that win. If they're nice, I'll let them rewind the game. If they're a jerk, they're getting a loss.
As for how my group treats it, we will let people pay as long as its within a reasonable amount of time. Usually as long as they remember it before their combat step, we will let it slide. If they get beyond that, it's likely that the game state has changed enough that backtracking isn't ideal.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
In a tournament match, I take the free win.
If it's somewhere in between, like a league match, I'd take the win if a booster or more is on the line.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffSince I play multiplayer and not 1v1, I'd also hear what the other players in the game want to do and if they want to take a hardline or be lenient.
I'm not asking this to be a rules lawyer, and I certainly don't mind anyone in my EDH playgroup doing it, I'm just asking for future reference.
I *loathe* Pacts in multiplayer for this exact reason.
They always cause drama, as some people in a game will always look to their strategic interests to decide how to handle the situation. So if Alice forgets a Pact, and controls something that is harming Bob (like an Ensnaring Bridge), Bob will want Alice out of the game, while Charlie (who is only alive because that bridge is stopping Bob killing him) will want Alice to remain in the game.
No, you can't put anything that could be mistaken for a card on top of your library, including an actual card. That's why people use other things like dice, coins, etc.
My decks:
-Modern UWR gifts control
-Modern Mono-G aggro elves
-Azami, Lady of Scrolls EDH
-Glissa the Traitor EDH
-Modern UWR Counterbalance Control
-Modern UW enchantment control: primer, on tapped out
-Modern regular UWR control
PET PEEVES
Backseat Mods - if you're not a moderator, stop quoting rules. No hall monitors needed.
It was a joke that probably didn't translate well to text. I meant we *all* laugh (together, not at). And if I don't acknowledge, it's in a joking, non-serious manner.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Personally, I'd handle it with the same question you'd ask a shoplifter: "are you going to pay for that?"
Yeah that's what I figured.
In casual though, I'll remind people and let them pay for it if they forget.
Exactly this, or in a casual game, i would say "pay it next upkeep" and not give them another chance if they forgot again.
You remember the mistakes through failure imo. That's how i was taught.