And I also get the feeling that you don't want to teach them not to be wrong, you want to teach them to play the way you like. And as I, yet again stated, previously: If they want to play the game in a way wherein you cannot derive any entertainment then find another playgroup., don't try to force the playgroup into your mold as that would not only ruin their game experience but yours aswell.
And I also get the feeling that you don't want to teach them not to be wrong, you want to teach them to play the way you like. And as I, yet again stated, previously: If they want to play the game in a way wherein you cannot derive any entertainment then find another playgroup., don't try to force the playgroup into your mold as that would not only ruin their game experience but yours aswell.
Don't presume my intent.
Then feel free to explain what you actually meant by "teaching them not to be wrong". If you didn't mean that you should be the judge over what is right or wrong, in a format where right or wrong is subjective, in the playgroup and others should adapt and learn from you to play the game the way you feel it should be played then what did you mean?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote me for replies.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
So I have to care and adapt to the No Combo Rule, but they don't have to adapt to my way of play?
Sweet.
Yep, pretty much sums it up. If you want to play with your combo-decks then find a playgroup that likes to play against them.
Except I don't have any combo decks; Vorel is about as +1/+1 Countery as you can get, and Zur wins through Beatdown. My Kamahl, Pit Fighter deck that I'm working on is about as un-combo-y as it gets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
And I also get the feeling that you don't want to teach them not to be wrong, you want to teach them to play the way you like. And as I, yet again stated, previously: If they want to play the game in a way wherein you cannot derive any entertainment then find another playgroup., don't try to force the playgroup into your mold as that would not only ruin their game experience but yours aswell.
Don't presume my intent.
Then feel free to explain what you actually meant by "teaching them not to be wrong". If you didn't mean that you should be the judge over what is right or wrong, in a format where right or wrong is subjective, in the playgroup and others should adapt and learn from you to play the game the way you feel it should be played then what did you mean?
Well in my example, the players would be quite literally playing incorrectly. But beyond that, a player who cannot accept/tolerate a completely valid playstyle has some sort of fundamental issue with the game. They have a problem that should be corrected. The best way to do this is to teach them the benefits of different ways of play. If they wish to not use them that is fine, but restricting them out of fear/ignorance/dislike/whining is never acceptable especially in a competitive tournament environment. People can be as wrong as they want casually, but when there are prizes everyone needs to use the correct rules.
Except I don't have any combo decks; Vorel is about as +1/+1 Countery as you can get, and Zur wins through Beatdown. My Kamahl, Pit Fighter deck that I'm working on is about as un-combo-y as it gets.
Which is completely irrelevant, I answered a comment you made regarding a no-combo rule with a post about combo decks. What kind of decks you play doesn't matter since yor question was if you would have to adapt to the consensus of the playgroup without all of them having to adapt to your personal opinions. A question where the answer is still yes.
A certain playgroup may ban any number of things: combo, cmc>5, Attacks during the first 5 turns, no mld or any other limitation they see fit to make the game enjoyable for that playgroup. If they as a playgroup has come to an agreement regarding rules why should you be able to completely revamp them because you want to play insertfittingwords.dec?
Go ahead and talk to them, try to convince them that your deck will increase the entertainment for the group or make a list of pros and cons regarding the rules however.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote me for replies.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
Well in my example, the players would be quite literally playing incorrectly. But beyond that, a player who cannot accept/tolerate a completely valid playstyle has some sort of fundamental issue with the game. They have a problem that should be corrected. The best way to do this is to teach them the benefits of different ways of play. If they wish to not use them that is fine, but restricting them out of fear/ignorance/dislike/whining is never acceptable especially in a competitive tournament environment. People can be as wrong as they want casually, but when there are prizes everyone needs to use the correct rules.
In short, I take blue mana very seriously.
They would be playing incorrectly from the official rules standpoint. But EDH as a format encourages house rules and what if they simply are playing a different game than you? And if they have a fundamental issue with the game but have enforced house rules to change the game to their liking, why does it need to be corrected?
And you are saying that the best way to correct them is to teach them the benefits of different ways of play. But a) they might not want to be corrected and b) you opinion is that that is the best way.
You write that restricting thing out of fear/ignorance etc. is never acceptable but have you considered that they might simply restrict it because they want to play the game to have a good time and these restrictions helps ensure that they have just that?
Regarding a competitive environment with prizes, why do they need to use the correct rules? As long as the rules are clearly stated I don't see a problem. Iäve played Archenemy and unglued/hinged with prizes on the line. Neither of those qualify for any "correct rules" tournament but I have had incedibly fun while playing them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote me for replies.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
They would be playing incorrectly from the official rules standpoint. But EDH as a format encourages house rules and what if they simply are playing a different game than you? And if they have a fundamental issue with the game but have enforced house rules to change the game to their liking, why does it need to be corrected?
And you are saying that the best way to correct them is to teach them the benefits of different ways of play. But a) they might not want to be corrected and b) you opinion is that that is the best way.
You write that restricting thing out of fear/ignorance etc. is never acceptable but have you considered that they might simply restrict it because they want to play the game to have a good time and these restrictions helps ensure that they have just that?
Regarding a competitive environment with prizes, why do they need to use the correct rules? As long as the rules are clearly stated I don't see a problem. Iäve played Archenemy and unglued/hinged with prizes on the line. Neither of those qualify for any "correct rules" tournament but I have had incedibly fun while playing them.
Rules exist and should be followed. There is no tournament without rules. If they are playing incorrectly from an official rules standpoint then they are wrong. If they have a fundamental problem with the rules based on their wrongness then they should receive help to fix the problem, their views.
I consider an "appeal to fun" as an invalid excuse.
This is of course taking a tournament into consideration. "Casual" rules cease to exist there.
Except I don't have any combo decks; Vorel is about as +1/+1 Countery as you can get, and Zur wins through Beatdown. My Kamahl, Pit Fighter deck that I'm working on is about as un-combo-y as it gets.
Which is completely irrelevant, I answered a comment you made regarding a no-combo rule with a post about combo decks. What kind of decks you play doesn't matter since yor question was if you would have to adapt to the consensus of the playgroup without all of them having to adapt to your personal opinions. A question where the answer is still yes.
A certain playgroup may ban any number of things: combo, cmc>5, Attacks during the first 5 turns, no mld or any other limitation they see fit to make the game enjoyable for that playgroup. If they as a playgroup has come to an agreement regarding rules why should you be able to completely revamp them because you want to play insertfittingwords.dec?
Go ahead and talk to them, try to convince them that your deck will increase the entertainment for the group or make a list of pros and cons regarding the rules however.
If I spend money on anything, you best bet I'm going to do what I can to ensure I can play with that thing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
If I spend money on anything, you best bet I'm going to do what I can to ensure I can play with that thing.
If they spend money on anything, you best bet they're going to do what they can to ensure they can play with that thing, in a way that is enjoyable to them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote me for replies.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
Except I don't have any combo decks; Vorel is about as +1/+1 Countery as you can get, and Zur wins through Beatdown. My Kamahl, Pit Fighter deck that I'm working on is about as un-combo-y as it gets.
Which is completely irrelevant, I answered a comment you made regarding a no-combo rule with a post about combo decks. What kind of decks you play doesn't matter since yor question was if you would have to adapt to the consensus of the playgroup without all of them having to adapt to your personal opinions. A question where the answer is still yes.
A certain playgroup may ban any number of things: combo, cmc>5, Attacks during the first 5 turns, no mld or any other limitation they see fit to make the game enjoyable for that playgroup. If they as a playgroup has come to an agreement regarding rules why should you be able to completely revamp them because you want to play insertfittingwords.dec?
Go ahead and talk to them, try to convince them that your deck will increase the entertainment for the group or make a list of pros and cons regarding the rules however.
If I spend money on anything, you best bet I'm going to do what I can to ensure I can play with that thing.
this is daterape logic
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
If I spend money on anything, you best bet I'm going to do what I can to ensure I can play with that thing.
If they spend money on anything, you best bet they're going to do what they can to ensure they can play with that thing, in a way that is enjoyable to them.
It's a competition. Changing the rules because someone doesn't want something undermines the entire competition. We are not discussing playing for "fun". We're discussing a prize based game.
Date rape ? Lol in that case your majority rules logic = nazi holocaust. Most of Germany didn't like them so is perfectly fine to exterminate right??? The shop owner does not care about anything but money if the one guy playing combo spent more in the shop than the rest if them he would tell them to suck it up.
Except I don't have any combo decks; Vorel is about as +1/+1 Countery as you can get, and Zur wins through Beatdown. My Kamahl, Pit Fighter deck that I'm working on is about as un-combo-y as it gets.
Which is completely irrelevant, I answered a comment you made regarding a no-combo rule with a post about combo decks. What kind of decks you play doesn't matter since yor question was if you would have to adapt to the consensus of the playgroup without all of them having to adapt to your personal opinions. A question where the answer is still yes.
A certain playgroup may ban any number of things: combo, cmc>5, Attacks during the first 5 turns, no mld or any other limitation they see fit to make the game enjoyable for that playgroup. If they as a playgroup has come to an agreement regarding rules why should you be able to completely revamp them because you want to play insertfittingwords.dec?
Go ahead and talk to them, try to convince them that your deck will increase the entertainment for the group or make a list of pros and cons regarding the rules however.
If I spend money on anything, you best bet I'm going to do what I can to ensure I can play with that thing.
this is daterape logic
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
Did you really just make the jump between cards and rape?
Cards: Spending money on some THING.
Dates: Spending money on some ONE.
Unless you are saying that women are objects....
Go sit in a corner until you can come back and tell us you understand how ridiculous that is....
And I am FULLY entitled to play with someone, as long as I have myself
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Maybe a TO would have a good reason to ban infinite combos.
The league I play in does two round of 90-minutes each per week. We have several pods all playing at once and usually one of them will go long. If you play an infinite combo deck and win the game 10 minutes into round 1, it's not like constructed where you get to sideboard and then play 2 more games, there are now 4 players who are done with their match and probably don't want to shuffle up and play for funsies with the guy who just won the game very quickly thanks to a combo. They also can't just play with their close friends either, because those people may be in another pod that is still playing. Now, the TO had 4 players probably milling about and they may be listless for the next 80 minutes, which is way longer then the round turnover time in a 60-card format.
Second Sunriseis banned in modern due to it lengthening tournaments due to how it interacts with the 5 extra turns at the end of the game. Could winning super quickly also be discouraged by commander TOs because it leads to multiple players being unhappy and bored for a long time which reflects poorly on your tournament?
This thread quickly devolved into self-absorbed people just typing so they can read their own messages over again and smirk at how smart they think they are. At first the arguments seemed solid (with a few exceptions) but almost nobody is budging even slightly on any point, you're just restating the same things in new and obnoxious ways. Y'all need to chill out and think more before you type.
Thread closed. This thread has gotten really off topic not to mention rather hostile. I could probably hand out a few infractions but lets just close it down instead and move on. Please stay on topic in the future and please do not flame and troll each other.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Don't presume my intent.
Then feel free to explain what you actually meant by "teaching them not to be wrong". If you didn't mean that you should be the judge over what is right or wrong, in a format where right or wrong is subjective, in the playgroup and others should adapt and learn from you to play the game the way you feel it should be played then what did you mean?
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
Except I don't have any combo decks; Vorel is about as +1/+1 Countery as you can get, and Zur wins through Beatdown. My Kamahl, Pit Fighter deck that I'm working on is about as un-combo-y as it gets.
Well in my example, the players would be quite literally playing incorrectly. But beyond that, a player who cannot accept/tolerate a completely valid playstyle has some sort of fundamental issue with the game. They have a problem that should be corrected. The best way to do this is to teach them the benefits of different ways of play. If they wish to not use them that is fine, but restricting them out of fear/ignorance/dislike/whining is never acceptable especially in a competitive tournament environment. People can be as wrong as they want casually, but when there are prizes everyone needs to use the correct rules.
In short, I take blue mana very seriously.
Which is completely irrelevant, I answered a comment you made regarding a no-combo rule with a post about combo decks. What kind of decks you play doesn't matter since yor question was if you would have to adapt to the consensus of the playgroup without all of them having to adapt to your personal opinions. A question where the answer is still yes.
A certain playgroup may ban any number of things: combo, cmc>5, Attacks during the first 5 turns, no mld or any other limitation they see fit to make the game enjoyable for that playgroup. If they as a playgroup has come to an agreement regarding rules why should you be able to completely revamp them because you want to play insertfittingwords.dec?
Go ahead and talk to them, try to convince them that your deck will increase the entertainment for the group or make a list of pros and cons regarding the rules however.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
They would be playing incorrectly from the official rules standpoint. But EDH as a format encourages house rules and what if they simply are playing a different game than you? And if they have a fundamental issue with the game but have enforced house rules to change the game to their liking, why does it need to be corrected?
And you are saying that the best way to correct them is to teach them the benefits of different ways of play. But a) they might not want to be corrected and b) you opinion is that that is the best way.
You write that restricting thing out of fear/ignorance etc. is never acceptable but have you considered that they might simply restrict it because they want to play the game to have a good time and these restrictions helps ensure that they have just that?
Regarding a competitive environment with prizes, why do they need to use the correct rules? As long as the rules are clearly stated I don't see a problem. Iäve played Archenemy and unglued/hinged with prizes on the line. Neither of those qualify for any "correct rules" tournament but I have had incedibly fun while playing them.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
Rules exist and should be followed. There is no tournament without rules. If they are playing incorrectly from an official rules standpoint then they are wrong. If they have a fundamental problem with the rules based on their wrongness then they should receive help to fix the problem, their views.
I consider an "appeal to fun" as an invalid excuse.
This is of course taking a tournament into consideration. "Casual" rules cease to exist there.
If I spend money on anything, you best bet I'm going to do what I can to ensure I can play with that thing.
If they spend money on anything, you best bet they're going to do what they can to ensure they can play with that thing, in a way that is enjoyable to them.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
this is daterape logic
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
you are not entitled to play with anybody
It's a competition. Changing the rules because someone doesn't want something undermines the entire competition. We are not discussing playing for "fun". We're discussing a prize based game.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Did you really just make the jump between cards and rape?
Cards: Spending money on some THING.
Dates: Spending money on some ONE.
Unless you are saying that women are objects....
Go sit in a corner until you can come back and tell us you understand how ridiculous that is....
And I am FULLY entitled to play with someone, as long as I have myself
The league I play in does two round of 90-minutes each per week. We have several pods all playing at once and usually one of them will go long. If you play an infinite combo deck and win the game 10 minutes into round 1, it's not like constructed where you get to sideboard and then play 2 more games, there are now 4 players who are done with their match and probably don't want to shuffle up and play for funsies with the guy who just won the game very quickly thanks to a combo. They also can't just play with their close friends either, because those people may be in another pod that is still playing. Now, the TO had 4 players probably milling about and they may be listless for the next 80 minutes, which is way longer then the round turnover time in a 60-card format.
Second Sunriseis banned in modern due to it lengthening tournaments due to how it interacts with the 5 extra turns at the end of the game. Could winning super quickly also be discouraged by commander TOs because it leads to multiple players being unhappy and bored for a long time which reflects poorly on your tournament?
\\My Magic Blog//
And on that day, the people rejoiced for 12 moons.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies