The point of this post is to be a simple brain exercise.
We know that mill is not a viable strategy in EDH (at least for competitive play barring combo). I know that brain exercises are also fun, figuring out how to get the fastest kill, etc. Thus, my question is:
How fast is the fastest that you can mill someone out in EDH without infinite combo (either mana or otherwise)? Also, how fast is the fastest that you can mill someone out in EDH with infinite combos?
Some things to assume:
Your opponent has a 100 card deck. The deck is 99 mountain Ashling the Pilgrim deck (makes what might be complicated math less complicated).
Your opponent starts with 7 cards in hand, every time, no mulls.
Your opponent plays a mountain every turn and passes (never casts Ashling).
You go first, with a draw (so 8 cards in hand after draw step).
T1: Play Mana Crypt. Tap Mana Crypt for Sol Ring and tap Sol Ring. Play an Island, Lotus Petal, sac Lotus Petal to cast High Tide. Tap Island. Pay 3UU to cast Telemin Performance.
This is going to screw over a lot of mill cause lately wizards has made decent "grind" cards and they won't do jack against 99-mountain ashling.
There are commanders that benefit off mill - like Lazav and Wrexial, and then commanders than actually mill, like szadek, mirko vosk, and the new phenax.
T1: Play Mana Crypt. Tap Mana Crypt for Sol Ring and tap Sol Ring. Play an Island, Lotus Petal, sac Lotus Petal to cast High Tide. Tap Island. Pay 3UU to cast Telemin Performance.
why not just sac lotus petal for blue?
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EDH decks in cockatrice, look me up under hoborobot
T1: Play Mana Crypt. Tap Mana Crypt for Sol Ring and tap Sol Ring. Play an Island, Lotus Petal, sac Lotus Petal to cast High Tide. Tap Island. Pay 3UU to cast Telemin Performance.
Slightly less jokes T1 win: Mana Crypt into Altar of Dementia. Island and Lotus Petal into Flash, flash a Phyrexian Devourer into play. With the Flash sac trigger on the stack, repeatedly activate Phyrexian Devourer until its power exceeds 93, then sac it to the Altar.
EDIT: A version of this kill that actually works--
Mountain and Mana Crypt into Seething Song. Lotus Petal into Dark Ritual. You now have eight mana, hardcast the Altar and Devourer and go off.
Turn 0: pick up my opponents library and throw it against the wall and yell "Go build a real deck!"
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GU Experiment Kraj- all your abilities belong to us WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts- battlecruiser GUB The Mimeoplasm- when graveyards are not safe RGW Mayael the Anima- i luv the fatties
Normally with my Wrexial deck storming with Consuming Abberation on board is the most viable strategy, that or copying Mesmeric Orb a few times. Phenax offers new avenues for sure, however.
Achieving a chunk of mana 35+and mind grind often works as well.
Of course, I as well as my primer are all with a multi player mentality, against real constructed decks.
When the Guildmage's copy resolves, you'll get another RRR from the Desperate Ritual Splice. Use the mana to activate Izzet Guildmage again, and repeat until other player(s) is(are) milled out.
This could be done with Lava Spike, but they'd probably die before you milled them out.
Kromus Bell makes them black Eradicate says non black. Unless I missed something Im Sorry.
I do like the animate land idea though. Might run it in a no mill deck lol.
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Originally posted by Rywads Having a foiled set of avacyn's pilgrims must be on the same level as a dude who puts expensive spinner hubcaps on an old Honda Civic.
Play and tap Mountain. R, 0 storm count
Play and tap Mana Crypt. 2R, 1
Cast Seething Song. RRRRR, 2
Cast Manamorphose for UB. Draw Ponder. UBRRR, 3
Pay 2 life for Gitaxian Probe. Draw Pyretic Ritual. UBRRR, 4
Cast Dark Ritual. UBBBRRR, 5
Cast Lotus Petal, sac for U. UUBBBRRR, 6
Cast Yawgmoth's Will. UUBBR, 7
Recast Dark Ritual. UUBBBBR, 8
Recast Seething Song. UUBBRRRRR, 9
Pay 2 life to re-cast Gitaxian Probe. UUBBRRRRR, 10
Recast Manamorphose for UU. UUUUBBRRR, 11
Cast Ponder twice, draw two more cards. UUBBRRR, 13
Cast Pyretic Ritual. UUBBRRRR, 14
Brain Freeze, opponent mills 45. UBBRRR, 15
Brain Freeze, opponent mills 48. Got there.
Notice that this sequence ends with cards in hand. There is probably a way to mill out two people if you use Cabal Ritual intelligently.
This doesn't work. Yawgmoth's Will exiles cards that hit the graveyard. So you cast Brain Freeze, and it would go to your graveyard, but it gets exiled instead. It would need to already be in your graveyard for the Yawgwins to let you get a second cast of it.
Imprint countryside crusher on a summoner's egg, donate the egg, blow it up, wait.
Turn 1: island + mana crypt + sol ring + mana crypt -> perplexing chimera
Turn 2: mindslaver + swamp
Turn 3: when they cast the general, activate PC to give them PC and take the general.
Turn 3/4: Activate mindslaver to take their next turn
Turn 4/5: On their cast spoils of the vault naming mox sapphire -> while controlling them have them activate PC to steal the spell -> they die
We know that mill is not a viable strategy in EDH (at least for competitive play barring combo). I know that brain exercises are also fun, figuring out how to get the fastest kill, etc. Thus, my question is:
How fast is the fastest that you can mill someone out in EDH without infinite combo (either mana or otherwise)? Also, how fast is the fastest that you can mill someone out in EDH with infinite combos?
Some things to assume:
Your opponent has a 100 card deck. The deck is 99 mountain Ashling the Pilgrim deck (makes what might be complicated math less complicated).
Your opponent starts with 7 cards in hand, every time, no mulls.
Your opponent plays a mountain every turn and passes (never casts Ashling).
You go first, with a draw (so 8 cards in hand after draw step).
Best of luck!
Bonus Added Challenge
Think of ways to do it without Altar of Dementia or Telemin Performance.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
3 lands
Sol Ring
Altar of Dementia
Consuming Abberation
And Traumatize
Don't really need an eighth card.
T1: land, Sol Ring, Altar
T2: land
T3: land, Traumatize
T4: Abberation, sac it to Altar.
Maybe I've overlooked something, but it seems pretty non-infinite.
There are commanders that benefit off mill - like Lazav and Wrexial, and then commanders than actually mill, like szadek, mirko vosk, and the new phenax.
With any of the last 3, strionic resonator is going to be nice.
Decent cards for EDH mill are mind grind, tunnel vision, traumatize, mind funeral, and glimpse the unthinkable.
While some might consider it a combo, freed from the real, the new U/B god, and consuming aberration make me want to make a mill deck.
I ain't so good at theoryhammer goldfishing magic, but I'll use the above interaction.
T1 - Island, Sol Ring, Dimir Signet
T2 - Island, Glimpse the Unthinkable, Mind Sculpt
T3 - Swamp, Phenax, God of Deception
T4 - Consuming Aberration
T5 - Freed from the Real, Win. At this point, if there were 2 other players, could do for them too.
Since I'm in dimir colors I could tutor for those too.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
why not just sac lotus petal for blue?
KAALIA SMASH!
Intet dreams of times ahead
and more
Pretty clutch.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
To up my storm count
Mana Crypt into Altar of Dementia. Island and Lotus Petal into Flash, flash a Phyrexian Devourer into play. With the Flash sac trigger on the stack, repeatedly activate Phyrexian Devourer until its power exceeds 93, then sac it to the Altar.
EDIT: A version of this kill that actually works--
Mountain and Mana Crypt into Seething Song. Lotus Petal into Dark Ritual. You now have eight mana, hardcast the Altar and Devourer and go off.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Unfortunately Flash doesn't work like that. Players don't get priority in between the creature entering the battlefield and needing to be sacrificed.
Opening hand:
Play and tap Mountain. R, 0 storm count
Play and tap Mana Crypt. 2R, 1
Cast Seething Song. RRRRR, 2
Cast Manamorphose for UB. Draw Ponder. UBRRR, 3
Pay 2 life for Gitaxian Probe. Draw Pyretic Ritual. UBRRR, 4
Cast Dark Ritual. UBBBRRR, 5
Cast Lotus Petal, sac for U. UUBBBRRR, 6
Cast Yawgmoth's Will. UUBBR, 7
Recast Dark Ritual. UUBBBBR, 8
Recast Seething Song. UUBBRRRRR, 9
Pay 2 life to re-cast Gitaxian Probe. UUBBRRRRR, 10
Recast Manamorphose for UU. UUUUBBRRR, 11
Cast Ponder twice, draw two more cards. UUBBRRR, 13
Cast Pyretic Ritual. UUBBRRRR, 14
Brain Freeze, opponent mills 45. UBBRRR, 15
Brain Freeze, opponent mills 48. Got there.
Notice that this sequence ends with cards in hand. There is probably a way to mill out two people if you use Cabal Ritual intelligently.
It doesnt mill them completly, but it is quite effective and fast.
GU Experiment Kraj- all your abilities belong to us
WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts- battlecruiser
GUB The Mimeoplasm- when graveyards are not safe
RGW Mayael the Anima- i luv the fatties
2nded!
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[Primer]WIsamaru, the Howling BladeW[Primer]
[Primer]BGSkullbriar: From Life, Death Eternal (1v1)GB[Primer]
BGRbighaben and Feverous' Prossh, Skyraider of KherRGB
BGRProssh-Gro (1V1)RGB
t2: Swamp, Animate Land targeting Ashling's Mountain, Eradicate targeting Ashling's Mountain.
So, 6 cards, (Swamp x2, Sol Ring, Moss Diamond, Animate Land, Eradicate) and two turns.
trolololol.
Edit: Ooh, I got the bonus, too!
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T2: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Eradicate the 1/1 Swamp/Mountain creature.
5-color Eggs
Kormus Bell costs 4
But, I like that other people are exploring the Eradicate angle.
Edit: Oh, I see how this could work with a minor adjustment.
T1: Ancient Tomb, Mana Crypt, Kormus Bell
T2: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Eradicate targeting Ashling's Mountain.
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T1: Island, Lotus Petal, Flash putting Academy Rector into play, sac and search library for Omniscience, Enter the Infinite drawing library, Traumatize, Radiate targeting Traumatize (for multiple opponents), Consuming Aberration, Fervor, Phenax, God of Deception, Rite of Replication (kicked) targetting Consuming Aberration (which is huge by now), start activating the ability on the aberrations given by Phenax and mill everybody.
Decline to play game 2.
EDIT: If you're only killing one player, you don't need Rite or Radiate.
Normally with my Wrexial deck storming with Consuming Abberation on board is the most viable strategy, that or copying Mesmeric Orb a few times. Phenax offers new avenues for sure, however.
Achieving a chunk of mana 35+and mind grind often works as well.
Of course, I as well as my primer are all with a multi player mentality, against real constructed decks.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
T1: Island + Sol Ring
T2: Mountain + Izzet Guildmage
T3: Swamp + Gilded Lotus
T4: Swamp and...
Cast Swallowing Plague for 0 on a player (even yourself will do), splicing Dampen Thought and Desperate Ritual. This should cost the mana from lands and the Sol Ring. Tap Gilded Lotus to activate Izzet Guildmage, targeting Swallowing Plague (and all it's splices).
When the Guildmage's copy resolves, you'll get another RRR from the Desperate Ritual Splice. Use the mana to activate Izzet Guildmage again, and repeat until other player(s) is(are) milled out.
This could be done with Lava Spike, but they'd probably die before you milled them out.
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
Kromus Bell makes them black Eradicate says non black. Unless I missed something Im Sorry.
I do like the animate land idea though. Might run it in a no mill deck lol.
EDH-
Shattergang BothersGBR Kaalia the Vast RBW Pillowpants the Blackblade, Troll of the PillowfortBUW Jarad Golgari Lich Lord's Pet CemeteryGB (Retired)
Ghave Guru of SporesGBW (Retired)
Jenara, Asura of WarGWU Norin the WayR Rhys the RedeemedGW Oloro, Ageless AsceticBUW
Ezuri, Renegade LeaderG
Fair point. I guess my solution at the end of the previous page is better (in that it actually works) :/
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Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
This doesn't work. Yawgmoth's Will exiles cards that hit the graveyard. So you cast Brain Freeze, and it would go to your graveyard, but it gets exiled instead. It would need to already be in your graveyard for the Yawgwins to let you get a second cast of it.
Turn 1: island + mana crypt + sol ring + mana crypt -> perplexing chimera
Turn 2: mindslaver + swamp
Turn 3: when they cast the general, activate PC to give them PC and take the general.
Turn 3/4: Activate mindslaver to take their next turn
Turn 4/5: On their cast spoils of the vault naming mox sapphire -> while controlling them have them activate PC to steal the spell -> they die
Why not just donate the crusher?