Blast Zone/Explosion Zone is one of the best pieces of colorless removal we've seen. It's expensive, which is par for the course for colorless removal options. A land that comes in untapped and produces mana with the potential to remove multiple cards, including things that different colors traditionally have trouble with (e.g. enchantments in RB), is great.
Ashiok, Dream Render is a card I'm expecting to see a lot of around here. The static ability is decent even if you're only shutting down land ramp and increases in value proportional to the number of tutors you see in a typical game. The -1 can enable your own GY shenanigans while still providing some value as proactive GY hate. It's not going to be as effective as instant speed hate but there's still value in repeatedly cleaning out yards. At the very least, it forces an answer before some decks can proceed with their gameplan. Not bad for a 3 CMC walker.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Yep, except I now have a dilemma: so far, I've kept the Varina deck so that every nonland card either is a zombie or references zombies in its' rules text... and that the only kind of token the deck makes is the standard 2/2 black zombie.
Oketra makes better zombies, which oddly slightly breaks the themage. Nyyerf.
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Agreed. Scarab is great as a toolbox/draw fix/grave hoser. I haven’t tried Lich Lord on account if it’s price shooting up like crazy. It looks like a shoe in if you can afford it though.
At any rate, dying did Oketra a world of good. She’s gonna go so well in Varina.
Sarkhan the Masterless appears to be quite the potential shake up for The Ur-Dragon. Now instead of laughing at the people who just dump all of their cool shiney planeswalkers into their brews it might actually be ideal to have utility walkers like Domri, Anarch of Bolas and Ashiok, Dream Render in place of enchantments
I just counted 39 cards from War of the Spark that I definitely want for my EDH decks. 39! & I want multiple copies of some of them. There are also another 10-15 cards I might find a place for.
I can't recall another set that I wanted so much from. Wow. & there are some 50 cards left unrevealed.
(Granted, I do have more decks now they I've had previously.)
I just counted 39 cards from War of the Spark that I definitely want for my EDH decks. 39! & I want multiple copies of some of them. There are also another 10-15 cards I might find a place for.
I can't recall another set that I wanted so much from. Wow. & there are some 50 cards left unrevealed.
(Granted, I do have more decks now they I've had previously.)
This set is fantastic for Commander, and it seems like almost every deck I own is getting something out of this set. There are also going to be quite a few good cards that I just don't have any place for. I think that the only thing holding a few cards back is that some of them are probably costed 1 mana too high in some cases, but I don't think that is necessarily a bad place to be for some of the effects that this set has to offer. The best thing is that there are a lot of really unique effects as well as effects we have seen before but done in totally different ways. I've got so many ideas on a lot of these cards that I may actually write up a whole set review if for nothing else than to try and get all my thoughts out before I forget.
On top of there being lots of good cards, there are some cards that are outright game-changers; Ashiok, Dream Render, Karn, the Great Creator, Dovin, Hand of Control, and Teferi, Time Raveler are a total beating against 95% of the gameplan in some decks, Bolas's Citadel looks like a combo powerhouse, and there are plenty of things that seem undercosted that the more expensive stuff might just not matter.
And looking at all the Proliferate in this set and the number of Planeswalkers that will potentially see play in Commander, I'm wondering if I should be packing Aether Snap, Thief of Blood, and/or Vampire Hexmage in some of my black decks that can tutor up answers as a way to combat counters (similar to running a few GY hate spells). Black seems like it is the anti-counter color, so I'm wondering if this is just something that black should be focusing on to help reign in a table.
Soul Diviner - decent tech. I could see it used for removing cumulative upkeep counters, among other things, for profit.
Yeah, it is a nice card. I'm a little sad that it doesn't work with enchantments though. It would have been cool with sagas. And half of the cumulative upkeep cards are enchantments too.
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Sorry for my possible english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.
This set has definitely gotten a lot better than I presumed from the initial premise. For the first time I am actually also interested in the story. I am happy to have been proven wrong.
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
The Gitrog Monster: The bar is really high for this deck so so far there are no instant additions. I may try Blast Zone out, but am not optimistic on it being super good. I don't think I have enough cards that will interact with Evolution Sage but I'll need to take a second pass - it tickles me enough that I may actually revamp the deck to support it. I may also experiment with God-Eternal Bontu due to its sick interaction with Gitrog. Casualties of War and Deliver Unto Evil may also clear the steep threshold that non-creature, non-land cards have to clear to earn a slot in the deck; cards are crazy strong.
Gahiji, Honored One: I keep this around as my deck to play when I need to lose - I don't always expect to win with it. As a result, it's hard to justify adding powerful cards to it as I don't necessarily want the deck to be super powrful. That being said, I kind of think that Ajani, the Greathearted might be a great fit for the deck since it allows my token army to swing and protect me, rolls up other 'walkers and creatures, and gains life. Finale of Glory (still rumored at this point) also seems like a great finisher for my deck.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow: Not all decks can be winners. Yuriko gains nothing (so far) from this set, but Yuriko has very specific needs. Closest to interesting is Lazotep Plating but honestly I feel like the deck needs less, not more, narrow answers to "get 'em". I may also add Fblthp, the Lost because Fblthp.
So for my decks actually not a ton, but I am also the keeper of my wife's decks and my oh my...
Jenara, Asura of War: This deck is basically just "fun with Doubling Season and pillowforts, so basically the entire set is an interesting addition to Jenara.
From there her decks are more niche as they are all tribal (Merfolk, Cats, and mono-black Vampires) but I do imagine that Liliana's Triumph also makes its way into the Vampire deck.
This deck also makes me want to build an Izzet or Grixis spells and 'walkers deck, and build Feather, the Redeemed.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Jesus. With enough mana those Finales look great. Not sure if they’re auto includes but they look fun if nothing else.
Going down the list in order...
Finale of Glory: Very powerful in token decks, but not necessarily better than Decree of Justice and Secure the Wastes. Still probably a staple in any W/x token deck, but not quite worth randomly jamming in other lists.
Finale of Promise: Even setting aside shenanigans with 0-cost spells (since that's much less likely to work in Commander), this is a lot of graveyard manipulating value and should be an instant staple in any R/x spellslinger deck.
Finale of Devastation: An instant staple in all green decks minus the odd Primal Surge all creatures list or strange Bant creatureless control list. For one more than Green Sun's Zenith (already a format-defining staple itself), you get to pull stuff out of the grave as well, get to pull creatures of any color, and get to cast the Craterhoof Behemoth overrun effect if you cast it for 12.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Jesus. With enough mana those Finales look great. Not sure if they’re auto includes but they look fun if nothing else.
I'm think the Finales are pretty good for the most part.
Finale of GloryXWW
Sorcery
Create X 2/2 white Soldier creature tokens with vigilance. If X is 10 or more, also create X 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and vigilance.
With a mana cost equal to Martial Coup, you get 2/2's instead of 1/1's in exchange for not having a Wrath when you might need it. You are otherwise trading Instant speed for Sorcery speed and one mana less when compared to White Sun's Zenith, plus getting the X>10 bonus. I like this one and will likely be trying to fit it in my token deck.
Finale of RevelationXUU
Sorcery
Draw X cards. If X is 10 or more, instead shuffle your graveyard into your library, draw X cards, untap up to five lands, and you have no maximum hand size for the rest of the game.
Exile Finale of Revelation.
On par with Braingeyser, but otherwise unexciting at Sorcery speed.
Finale of EternityXBB
Sorcery
Destroy up to three target creatures with toughness X or less. If X is 10 or more, return all creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
I actually like this one. Being able to have a more precise instrument to destroy creatures en masse is sometimes preferred to Wrathing the whole board away, and the X>10 bonus being a mass reanimate is something worth sinking all that Cabal Coffers mana into.
Finale of PromiseXRR
Sorcery
You may cast up to one target instant card and/or up to one target sorcery card from your graveyard each with converted mana cost X or less without paying their mana costs. If a card cast this way would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead. If X is 10 or more, copy each of those spells twice. You may choose new targets for the copies.
This is a nice card for burn or spellslinger decks, I intend to try this out in a couple different spots. I actually see this being more of a Modern or Legacy burn card where X=1 can flash back a Lightning Bolt and a Lava Spike.
Finale of DevastationXGG
Sorcery
Search your library and/or graveyard for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put it onto the battlefield. If you search your library this way, shuffle. If X is 10 or more, creatures you control get +X/+X and gain trample until end of turn.
I'm wondering if the names for the red and green Finales were swapped at some point... This one seems fairly straightforward and is right up there with Green Sun's Zenith with a couple important differences; it is not limited to Green creatures and it can reanimate creatures, both of which make this well worth the additional green mana . Interesting X>10 ability that will rarely be used when people can just cast this for X=8 and get Craterhoof Behemoth.
Definitely the green and red ones are decent. Black....yeah, it's not super strong, but it does seem fun. Rise of the Dark Realms is undoubtedly stronger, but it's still variable level, non-negotiable creature destruction in a colour that has traditionally had disclaimers on its removal. The reanimation I guess is unlikely to happen unless you have mana doublers and/or Coffers and a full yard.
Of the 5, I'm most psyched for green - it's a straight up bomb finisher in my Nissa build.
I'm curious, as I know you've got a Varina build kicking about - what do you think of the amass mechanic? Personally, I'm a little disappointed in it myself. It seems slow and underwhelming for this format. I'm also a little disappointed with the zombie lords only granting mechanics to zombie tokens - my build isn't all that swarm related, so I'm really not looking to add a ton to that particular build. God-Eternal Oketra is an auto-add, and likely Soul Diviner too - it's well costed for my curve and gives me options for draw. Otherwise, I was hoping for more.
My wife's Varina deck is token heavy and more aggressive so I like Amass, but I view it as more of a bonus than a buildaround. For instance, I dig Lazotep Reaver not because I want to use it to kickstart my amassed army but because it is a 2/3 for 1B over two bodies, which means it gives me two bodies to attack with, gets double the bonus from all the zombie lords, is an extra body to feed to Nantuko Husk to trigger Grave Pact, etc. For that same reason, I think that Dreadhorde Invasion is ridiculously amazing and I think anything else that amasses on EtB is worth testing (so Vizier of the Scorpion and Gleaming Overseer, although the competition at 3 CMC is stiff). There's also a chance that the deck runs Enter the God-Eternals because the deck does have an Undead Alchemist package and appreciates incidental mill.
Even with all that, I'd be unlikely to just slam, say, Relentless Advance in the 99 of my deck because I actually don't really wanna go full tilt on the horde. And if you aren't doing a token-heavy Varina deck, for sure I'd probably only seriously consider Dreadhorde Invasion as a reasonable inclusion.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
My wife's Varina deck is token heavy and more aggressive so I like Amass, but I view it as more of a bonus than a buildaround. For instance, I dig Lazotep Reaver not because I want to use it to kickstart my amassed army but because it is a 2/3 for 1B over two bodies, which means it gives me two bodies to attack with, gets double the bonus from all the zombie lords, is an extra body to feed to Nantuko Husk to trigger Grave Pact, etc. For that same reason, I think that Dreadhorde Invasion is ridiculously amazing and I think anything else that amasses on EtB is worth testing (so Vizier of the Scorpion and Gleaming Overseer, although the competition at 3 CMC is stiff). There's also a chance that the deck runs Enter the God-Eternals because the deck does have an Undead Alchemist package and appreciates incidental mill.
Even with all that, I'd be unlikely to just slam, say, Relentless Advance in the 99 of my deck because I actually don't really wanna go full tilt on the horde. And if you aren't doing a token-heavy Varina deck, for sure I'd probably only seriously consider Dreadhorde Invasion as a reasonable inclusion.
I more or less agree here - I think amass is too slow to be anything more than a vanilla pump that doesn't do enough quick enough. Dreadhorde Invasion is decent value, and if I end up with a copy it might take over Endless Ranks of the Dead, as that bad boy is super slow and win more. I like the token lords in a way, but I'm not going to jump at including them as I don't rely on a swarm. Spark Reaper isn't bad, as a non-infinite sac outlet and draw engine, I guess.
I'm curious, as I know you've got a Varina build kicking about - what do you think of the amass mechanic? Personally, I'm a little disappointed in it myself. It seems slow and underwhelming for this format. I'm also a little disappointed with the zombie lords only granting mechanics to zombie tokens - my build isn't all that swarm related, so I'm really not looking to add a ton to that particular build. God-Eternal Oketra is an auto-add, and likely Soul Diviner too - it's well costed for my curve and gives me options for draw. Otherwise, I was hoping for more.
I haven't quite decided on what I'm going to do with my Varina deck. The last few times I've played it, it has kinda disappointed me in that I just run too many 5-drops in the deck and the mana curve is all wonky. The way I look at it, some of the Amass cards give me some cheap options that work well in a Zombie tribal swarm deck.
Specific cards-wise, here is at least what I'm thinking for the Zombie/Amass cards: God-Eternal Oketra: Getting a 4/4 Zombie Warrior with Vigilance tacked onto each creature spell I play is really good. Commence the Endgame: Being able to Amass for 4-5 seems okay, so I'm looking at this as a potential on-theme Mulldrifter with trade-offs. Crush Dissent: I don't run counters in my Varina deck, and I don't think this is good enough to make an exception. Eternal Skylord: Solid card, generating 2 bodies that take advantage of mass-pump effects and granting evasion to my tokens (of which I currently run 19 cards plus Varina that make tokens). God-Eternal Kefnet: As a 4/5 flying Zombie for 4 mana, this is great. The occasional getting a free copy of a removal spell or token generator is just gravy even if it won't happen all that often. Lazotep Plating: Too reactive for this kind of deck, but it is otherwise fine. Relentless Advance: Not good enough Dreadhorde Invasion: I'm actually leaning towards this being potentially really good. Eternal Taskmaster: As a 2/3 for 2 mana, this if fine. The Raise Dead ability is a little costly to use, but it is nice potential value when you need it I guess. God-Eternal Bontu: I really like this card, as it plays well with token generation and with Vengeful Dead, Diregraf Captain, Plague Belcher effects. Herald of the Dreadhorde: I don't think this is good enough. Lazotep Reaver: This might be a decent playable, giving me two bodies to use. Liliana, Dreadhorde General: This card seems really strong and will definitely be going in. Shriekdiver: Not good enough. Spark Reaper: Comparable to Vampiric Rites and Thallid Soothsayer, I'm thinking that this might make the cut. Toll of the Invasion: Probably not, although it is not necessarily a bad idea. It's probably on par with a Ravenous Rats, which makes it a no. Vizier of the Scorpion: Again, getting two bodies makes Anthem effects have a higher impact, and granting Deathtouch to tokens is pretty good. Soul Diviner: This will probably be just a 2/3 for two mana in a lot of decks.
So there are some things to consider at least, but unfortunately a lot of the heavy hitters are in the 5-6 mana range running head-on into the mana curve problems my deck already has. Some of the cheaper Amass guys like Vizier of the Scorpion and Lazotep Reaver are going to be better than you think if they play out like I think they will. In the end, I'm going to need to make some decision on whether to add in more cheap Zombies or stay with the current gameplan and add more artifact ramp. I think that decision more than anything will decide on what to do with some of these cards.
So there are some things to consider at least, but unfortunately a lot of the heavy hitters are in the 5-6 mana range running head-on into the mana curve problems my deck already has. Some of the cheaper Amass guys like Vizier of the Scorpion and Lazotep Reaver are going to be better than you think if they play out like I think they will. In the end, I'm going to need to make some decision on whether to add in more cheap Zombies or stay with the current gameplan and add more artifact ramp. I think that decision more than anything will decide on what to do with some of these cards.
My problem with amass is that it doesn't reliably make you wider, and it doesn't make you taller quick enough to matter. So with that in mind, I may playtest some things, but I'm very hesitant to put a lot of stock in amass. I may be wrong, they just don't seem that efficient, although I can concede that at a lower place on the curve they could be good value.
For what it's worth, that 5 slot I have trouble with too. A lot of my current five drops are too slow (Grimgrin, Corpse-Born) or too expensive (Havengul Lich), so I've been looking for utility lower to the ground myself. Interestingly enough, the one I'm most excited about you don't seem to fancy - Soul Diviner. I run Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Noosegraf Mob, Carrion Feeder, and at least a couple of walkers - plus I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a local copy of Glacial Chasm. Turning any of these counters into cards is gravy for me, and it's well costed too. It really hurts my feelings that he can't remove counters from enchantments, because I run both Tombstone Stairwell and Mystic Remora, but it's still decent utility for a low cost.
Without a dedicated legendary creature, amass has no sense in commander
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Ashiok, Dream Render is a card I'm expecting to see a lot of around here. The static ability is decent even if you're only shutting down land ramp and increases in value proportional to the number of tutors you see in a typical game. The -1 can enable your own GY shenanigans while still providing some value as proactive GY hate. It's not going to be as effective as instant speed hate but there's still value in repeatedly cleaning out yards. At the very least, it forces an answer before some decks can proceed with their gameplan. Not bad for a 3 CMC walker.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Yep, except I now have a dilemma: so far, I've kept the Varina deck so that every nonland card either is a zombie or references zombies in its' rules text... and that the only kind of token the deck makes is the standard 2/2 black zombie.
Oketra makes better zombies, which oddly slightly breaks the themage. Nyyerf.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Agreed. Scarab is great as a toolbox/draw fix/grave hoser. I haven’t tried Lich Lord on account if it’s price shooting up like crazy. It looks like a shoe in if you can afford it though.
At any rate, dying did Oketra a world of good. She’s gonna go so well in Varina.
I can't recall another set that I wanted so much from. Wow. & there are some 50 cards left unrevealed.
(Granted, I do have more decks now they I've had previously.)
This set is fantastic for Commander, and it seems like almost every deck I own is getting something out of this set. There are also going to be quite a few good cards that I just don't have any place for. I think that the only thing holding a few cards back is that some of them are probably costed 1 mana too high in some cases, but I don't think that is necessarily a bad place to be for some of the effects that this set has to offer. The best thing is that there are a lot of really unique effects as well as effects we have seen before but done in totally different ways. I've got so many ideas on a lot of these cards that I may actually write up a whole set review if for nothing else than to try and get all my thoughts out before I forget.
On top of there being lots of good cards, there are some cards that are outright game-changers; Ashiok, Dream Render, Karn, the Great Creator, Dovin, Hand of Control, and Teferi, Time Raveler are a total beating against 95% of the gameplan in some decks, Bolas's Citadel looks like a combo powerhouse, and there are plenty of things that seem undercosted that the more expensive stuff might just not matter.
And looking at all the Proliferate in this set and the number of Planeswalkers that will potentially see play in Commander, I'm wondering if I should be packing Aether Snap, Thief of Blood, and/or Vampire Hexmage in some of my black decks that can tutor up answers as a way to combat counters (similar to running a few GY hate spells). Black seems like it is the anti-counter color, so I'm wondering if this is just something that black should be focusing on to help reign in a table.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Yeah, it is a nice card. I'm a little sad that it doesn't work with enchantments though. It would have been cool with sagas. And half of the cumulative upkeep cards are enchantments too.
Drawing cards off Glacial Chasm... so good...
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Yep, that it does, but I am a slave to a theme.
'Missing out' is subjective anyway, though I did indeed (mildly) miss on not having those two cards in. Now Oketra joins them.
Also, how about that Casualties of War? New staple much?
This set has definitely gotten a lot better than I presumed from the initial premise. For the first time I am actually also interested in the story. I am happy to have been proven wrong.
Daretti, Scrap Savant: I run it as a superfriends deck, and so Karn, the Great Creator and Ugin, the Ineffable are instant adds. I am also interested in trying Chandra, Fire Artisan and Sarkhan, the Masterless, I may also experiment with Mobilized District and Karn's Bastion which look powerful even though I prefer to keep my mountain count high for Caged Sun and Koth of the Hammer.
The Gitrog Monster: The bar is really high for this deck so so far there are no instant additions. I may try Blast Zone out, but am not optimistic on it being super good. I don't think I have enough cards that will interact with Evolution Sage but I'll need to take a second pass - it tickles me enough that I may actually revamp the deck to support it. I may also experiment with God-Eternal Bontu due to its sick interaction with Gitrog. Casualties of War and Deliver Unto Evil may also clear the steep threshold that non-creature, non-land cards have to clear to earn a slot in the deck; cards are crazy strong.
Doran, the Siege Tower: So far the only card of real interest is Casualties of War. Teyo, the Shieldmage, Nissa, Who Shakes the World, and Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord are interesting but aren't really what the deck is about and Huatli, the Sun's Heart gets a no from me dog.
Gahiji, Honored One: I keep this around as my deck to play when I need to lose - I don't always expect to win with it. As a result, it's hard to justify adding powerful cards to it as I don't necessarily want the deck to be super powrful. That being said, I kind of think that Ajani, the Greathearted might be a great fit for the deck since it allows my token army to swing and protect me, rolls up other 'walkers and creatures, and gains life. Finale of Glory (still rumored at this point) also seems like a great finisher for my deck.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow: Not all decks can be winners. Yuriko gains nothing (so far) from this set, but Yuriko has very specific needs. Closest to interesting is Lazotep Plating but honestly I feel like the deck needs less, not more, narrow answers to "get 'em". I may also add Fblthp, the Lost because Fblthp.
So for my decks actually not a ton, but I am also the keeper of my wife's decks and my oh my...
Varina, Lich Queen: This set is basically "Varina's magical Christmas". Of particular interest are Dreadhorde Invasion, God-Eternal Oketra, and Eternal Skylord but I'd also be interested to test Eternal Taskmaster, Lazotep Reaver, God-Eternal Bontu, Lazotep Plating, Vizier of the Scorpion, Gleaming Overseer, Liliana, Dreadhorde General, Enter the God-Eternals, and Ashiok, Dream Render. So lots of great additions.
Jenara, Asura of War: This deck is basically just "fun with Doubling Season and pillowforts, so basically the entire set is an interesting addition to Jenara.
Nath of the Gilt-Leaf: Liliana's Triumph and Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage fit this deck's theme nicely. Casualties of War is again very powerful.
From there her decks are more niche as they are all tribal (Merfolk, Cats, and mono-black Vampires) but I do imagine that Liliana's Triumph also makes its way into the Vampire deck.
This deck also makes me want to build an Izzet or Grixis spells and 'walkers deck, and build Feather, the Redeemed.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Going down the list in order...
Finale of Glory: Very powerful in token decks, but not necessarily better than Decree of Justice and Secure the Wastes. Still probably a staple in any W/x token deck, but not quite worth randomly jamming in other lists.
Finale of Revelation: Instant staple in most U/x spellslinger decks due to how busted it can be with High Tide, Turnabout, rituals, and reducers. Probably a bit too durdly and slow compared to Blue Sun's Zenith and Stroke of Genius otherwise.
Finale of Eternity: Seems bad. Will struggle to hit enough targets, and is worse than Rise of the Dark Realms as a endgame mana sink.
Finale of Promise: Even setting aside shenanigans with 0-cost spells (since that's much less likely to work in Commander), this is a lot of graveyard manipulating value and should be an instant staple in any R/x spellslinger deck.
Finale of Devastation: An instant staple in all green decks minus the odd Primal Surge all creatures list or strange Bant creatureless control list. For one more than Green Sun's Zenith (already a format-defining staple itself), you get to pull stuff out of the grave as well, get to pull creatures of any color, and get to cast the Craterhoof Behemoth overrun effect if you cast it for 12.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I'm think the Finales are pretty good for the most part.
Finale of Glory XWW
Sorcery
Create X 2/2 white Soldier creature tokens with vigilance. If X is 10 or more, also create X 4/4 white Angel creature tokens with flying and vigilance.
With a mana cost equal to Martial Coup, you get 2/2's instead of 1/1's in exchange for not having a Wrath when you might need it. You are otherwise trading Instant speed for Sorcery speed and one mana less when compared to White Sun's Zenith, plus getting the X>10 bonus. I like this one and will likely be trying to fit it in my token deck.
Finale of Revelation XUU
Sorcery
Draw X cards. If X is 10 or more, instead shuffle your graveyard into your library, draw X cards, untap up to five lands, and you have no maximum hand size for the rest of the game.
Exile Finale of Revelation.
On par with Braingeyser, but otherwise unexciting at Sorcery speed.
Finale of Eternity XBB
Sorcery
Destroy up to three target creatures with toughness X or less. If X is 10 or more, return all creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
I actually like this one. Being able to have a more precise instrument to destroy creatures en masse is sometimes preferred to Wrathing the whole board away, and the X>10 bonus being a mass reanimate is something worth sinking all that Cabal Coffers mana into.
Finale of Promise XRR
Sorcery
You may cast up to one target instant card and/or up to one target sorcery card from your graveyard each with converted mana cost X or less without paying their mana costs. If a card cast this way would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead. If X is 10 or more, copy each of those spells twice. You may choose new targets for the copies.
This is a nice card for burn or spellslinger decks, I intend to try this out in a couple different spots. I actually see this being more of a Modern or Legacy burn card where X=1 can flash back a Lightning Bolt and a Lava Spike.
Finale of Devastation XGG
Sorcery
Search your library and/or graveyard for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put it onto the battlefield. If you search your library this way, shuffle. If X is 10 or more, creatures you control get +X/+X and gain trample until end of turn.
I'm wondering if the names for the red and green Finales were swapped at some point... This one seems fairly straightforward and is right up there with Green Sun's Zenith with a couple important differences; it is not limited to Green creatures and it can reanimate creatures, both of which make this well worth the additional green mana . Interesting X>10 ability that will rarely be used when people can just cast this for X=8 and get Craterhoof Behemoth.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Of the 5, I'm most psyched for green - it's a straight up bomb finisher in my Nissa build.
I'm curious, as I know you've got a Varina build kicking about - what do you think of the amass mechanic? Personally, I'm a little disappointed in it myself. It seems slow and underwhelming for this format. I'm also a little disappointed with the zombie lords only granting mechanics to zombie tokens - my build isn't all that swarm related, so I'm really not looking to add a ton to that particular build. God-Eternal Oketra is an auto-add, and likely Soul Diviner too - it's well costed for my curve and gives me options for draw. Otherwise, I was hoping for more.
Even with all that, I'd be unlikely to just slam, say, Relentless Advance in the 99 of my deck because I actually don't really wanna go full tilt on the horde. And if you aren't doing a token-heavy Varina deck, for sure I'd probably only seriously consider Dreadhorde Invasion as a reasonable inclusion.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I more or less agree here - I think amass is too slow to be anything more than a vanilla pump that doesn't do enough quick enough. Dreadhorde Invasion is decent value, and if I end up with a copy it might take over Endless Ranks of the Dead, as that bad boy is super slow and win more. I like the token lords in a way, but I'm not going to jump at including them as I don't rely on a swarm. Spark Reaper isn't bad, as a non-infinite sac outlet and draw engine, I guess.
I haven't quite decided on what I'm going to do with my Varina deck. The last few times I've played it, it has kinda disappointed me in that I just run too many 5-drops in the deck and the mana curve is all wonky. The way I look at it, some of the Amass cards give me some cheap options that work well in a Zombie tribal swarm deck.
Specific cards-wise, here is at least what I'm thinking for the Zombie/Amass cards:
God-Eternal Oketra: Getting a 4/4 Zombie Warrior with Vigilance tacked onto each creature spell I play is really good.
Commence the Endgame: Being able to Amass for 4-5 seems okay, so I'm looking at this as a potential on-theme Mulldrifter with trade-offs.
Crush Dissent: I don't run counters in my Varina deck, and I don't think this is good enough to make an exception.
Eternal Skylord: Solid card, generating 2 bodies that take advantage of mass-pump effects and granting evasion to my tokens (of which I currently run 19 cards plus Varina that make tokens).
God-Eternal Kefnet: As a 4/5 flying Zombie for 4 mana, this is great. The occasional getting a free copy of a removal spell or token generator is just gravy even if it won't happen all that often.
Lazotep Plating: Too reactive for this kind of deck, but it is otherwise fine.
Relentless Advance: Not good enough
Dreadhorde Invasion: I'm actually leaning towards this being potentially really good.
Eternal Taskmaster: As a 2/3 for 2 mana, this if fine. The Raise Dead ability is a little costly to use, but it is nice potential value when you need it I guess.
God-Eternal Bontu: I really like this card, as it plays well with token generation and with Vengeful Dead, Diregraf Captain, Plague Belcher effects.
Herald of the Dreadhorde: I don't think this is good enough.
Lazotep Reaver: This might be a decent playable, giving me two bodies to use.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General: This card seems really strong and will definitely be going in.
Shriekdiver: Not good enough.
Spark Reaper: Comparable to Vampiric Rites and Thallid Soothsayer, I'm thinking that this might make the cut.
Toll of the Invasion: Probably not, although it is not necessarily a bad idea. It's probably on par with a Ravenous Rats, which makes it a no.
Vizier of the Scorpion: Again, getting two bodies makes Anthem effects have a higher impact, and granting Deathtouch to tokens is pretty good.
Soul Diviner: This will probably be just a 2/3 for two mana in a lot of decks.
So there are some things to consider at least, but unfortunately a lot of the heavy hitters are in the 5-6 mana range running head-on into the mana curve problems my deck already has. Some of the cheaper Amass guys like Vizier of the Scorpion and Lazotep Reaver are going to be better than you think if they play out like I think they will. In the end, I'm going to need to make some decision on whether to add in more cheap Zombies or stay with the current gameplan and add more artifact ramp. I think that decision more than anything will decide on what to do with some of these cards.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
My problem with amass is that it doesn't reliably make you wider, and it doesn't make you taller quick enough to matter. So with that in mind, I may playtest some things, but I'm very hesitant to put a lot of stock in amass. I may be wrong, they just don't seem that efficient, although I can concede that at a lower place on the curve they could be good value.
For what it's worth, that 5 slot I have trouble with too. A lot of my current five drops are too slow (Grimgrin, Corpse-Born) or too expensive (Havengul Lich), so I've been looking for utility lower to the ground myself. Interestingly enough, the one I'm most excited about you don't seem to fancy - Soul Diviner. I run Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Noosegraf Mob, Carrion Feeder, and at least a couple of walkers - plus I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a local copy of Glacial Chasm. Turning any of these counters into cards is gravy for me, and it's well costed too. It really hurts my feelings that he can't remove counters from enchantments, because I run both Tombstone Stairwell and Mystic Remora, but it's still decent utility for a low cost.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE