Sure, there is a chance of spending $4 on a booster and getting the Mythic Rare $30 super card. There is also a chance of surviving putting your tongue in a light socket.
I predict we'll see an uncommon with Adapt at an aggressively low cost, but it won't do anything else and thus will likely still be trash in Commander.
Armorcraft judge seems better than Zegana.
I assume that the reason why Adapt has different text than Monstruous is that there will be cards that can remove the counters for a benefit, allowing you to re-Adapt.
Armorcraft judge seems better than Zegana.
I assume that the reason why Adapt has different text than Monstruous is that there will be cards that can remove the counters for a benefit, allowing you to re-Adapt.
How is the new Zegana not good? It’s a 4/4 for 4 that more often than not will replace itself immediately. It gives your team trample and it has an innate way to boost itself so it’s an 8/8 trampling commander making commander damage a viable route to victory. Note that adapt can be done at instant speed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
How is the new Zegana not good? It’s a 4/4 for 4 that more often than not will replace itself immediately. It gives your team trample and it has an innate way to boost itself so it’s an 8/8 trampling commander making commander damage a viable route to victory. Note that adapt can be done at instant speed.
You're sinking a minimum of 10 mana into it before commander damage becomes a real possibility. I expect most players will be happy to chump it until you go to buff it up and it needs to be removed. It's a decent value card but it's not doing anything new or exciting as a general. I'm expecting to see it as 1/99 a fair amount.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
How is the new Zegana not good? It’s a 4/4 for 4 that more often than not will replace itself immediately. It gives your team trample and it has an innate way to boost itself so it’s an 8/8 trampling commander making commander damage a viable route to victory. Note that adapt can be done at instant speed.
I think you're too optimistic. Needing a creature with a +1/+1 counter is a real condition and a 4/4 for 4 isn't that impressive in a format where ramp and combo are the primary strategies.
Sure, there is a chance of spending $4 on a booster and getting the Mythic Rare $30 super card. There is also a chance of surviving putting your tongue in a light socket.
New Zegana makes old Zegana more a more dangerous combat threat, but it's not like UG lacks for ways to give stuff trample or flight or to make it unblockable. I don't see new replacing old as anyone's general, or being played in as many decks.
Lavnia seems best in builds a lot of people are gonna whine about.
Ask yourself how many monstrosity creatures are played in this format?
Yeah, right
I think you're missing the mark here. Whether or not there will be any Commander playable cards with adapt has much more to do with the kinds of cards Wizards chooses to print with adapt and much less to do with the mechanic itself. That's how it is with every mechanic. There's nothing intrinsic about adapt that makes it unsuitable for Commander.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Ask yourself how many monstrosity creatures are played in this format?
Yeah, right
I think you're missing the mark here. Whether or not there will be any Commander playable cards with adapt has much more to do with the kinds of cards Wizards chooses to print with adapt and much less to do with the mechanic itself. That's how it is with every mechanic. There's nothing intrinsic about adapt that makes it unsuitable for Commander.
Exactly. Polukranos is certainly playable in more than a few decks, but that's more about the 5/5 for 4 that grows by eating your mana and washing it down with your opponents than the actual mechanic.
Honestly though, good on WOTC for the tentative Simic nerf. I hate that guild (the sole exception being Simic Sky Swallower who is 1000% keywords and manliness) and evolve was irritating. Rather see rakdos or literally any other guild get something cool/broken this time. Afterlife and spectacle are both much better effects already.
Edit: bedevil is an elegant card with superb art. I do just love me some removal.
Maybe we'll get the Simic Manipulator-removing-counters effect to get more out of creatures that already adapted (and hopefully those creatures have triggers when a counter is put on them).
Simic always works with +1/+1 counters (Graft, Evolve and now Adapt)
I actually like the riot ability, but would prefer had it been Riot X. But i guess in some cases, the X would be far better than haste.
Unlike adapt i do not see Riot coming into EDH. Some cards may find their way in (like Gruul Spellbreaker) but only due to other abilities. (or a temur build abusing +1/+1 counters)
Anyone else see Riot as a strictly better version of Unleash and then think about how bad unleash was in contract and how screwed Rakdos was in the last block? Fortunately, spectacle seems loads better. I've been thinking lately that noncombat damage is the main crossover between Red and Black mechanically and imo it makes much more sense to have a mechanic that capitalizes on this shared feature.
I agree with you on 99 percent of what you said. The 1% being that I kinda enjoyed hellbent. I enjoy the concept of making everyone discard their hands via cards like Sire of Insanity and then capitalizing on that state by breaking parity with the better hellbent cards like Anthem of Rakdos and Infernal Tutor.
Personally I was hoping for a mechanic to continue this playstyle which was still somewhat existant in the second Rav block with the aformentioned Sire of Insanity as well as one of my absolute favourite modern cards, Shrieking Affliction. That said, SA isn't technically Rakdos card but meh. I didn't get what I wanted but I'm still pleased we didn't get something garbage again like Unleash.
Personally, i'm hoping for one of the BR legends to have synergy with Hellbent/ Sire of Insanity. I would adore something akin to Shrieking Affliction that made creature tokens on each players upkeep if they had 1 or less cards in hand. Or something like that anyway.
Edit: Actually, Rix Maadi Reveler fits into the playstyle I mentioned because if you don't have a hand, discarding your hand to then drawing 3 is all upside with no downside.
So of the 27 monstrous creatures, I've seen 13 in use, just short of half of them.
I played against a guy who used frenetic raptor. I guess that makes this lovely dinosaur an EDH all-star?
Nobody said they were all stars; your question was about what Monstrous cards see play in EDH and Lithl provided a list of 13 that they personally had seen played in their games. Of those, I have seen 5. Now that you have (anecdotal) evidence that says Monstrous cards do see play in EDH, you have decided to move the goalposts and suggest they need to be all-stars to count? Comparing something like Kalemne's Captain or Hythonia the Cruel (cards that have powerful, if maybe overcosted, effects) to a 6/6 beater that can't block means you are not interested in a legitimate discussion about the merits of Adapt. Yes, people play bad cards for a variety of reasons. That does not mean every card that is seen infrequently is a bad card.
There are likely going to be some Adapt cards that see play (I personally like Zegana) just like there are Monstrous cards that see play. And, just like Monstrous, not all need to see play for the mechanic to offer some good cards for the format. You don't like the mechanic obviously but that doesn't make it a bad mechanic for the people who do like what they see or the ones that do like Monstrous. Especially since we have seen a total of 2 cards with Adapt.
I think the pushback from abilities like monstrous and adapt (and riot) is that they only directly involve small/medium stat buffs, which generally scale badly in commander even if they're pushed for other formats. Compare to, say, transmute which makes every card with the ability playable, or overload where at least there's a chance.
Ofc they can tack on other triggers I.e. hythonia to make it relevant. Note that nearly all the played monstrosities have extra triggers (and of the others, they're imo very questionable, like domesticated hydra). In most cases the best of those cards would be basically fine if they had monstrosity 0, because the default utility of the ability - the stat boost - isn't what makes them playable. But it does jack up the cost of the abilities to balance for other formats, hence why people are pessimistic.
There'll probably be some played adapt/riot creatures, but it won't be because of the ability to get fatter one time, I'd wager. Or at least, not the good ones.
The issue is that, in a card game like this, having an empty hand is inherently disadvantageous. And in fact the Infernity, a Yugioh archetype that works very similar to Hellbent, have the same issue. Now, had there been enough strong cards to compensate this inherent disadvantage, had there been strong interactions with it, had the subsequent mechanics been able to interact with it, then it could maybe have been workable: in a word, had "no cards in hand matter" been pushed as the core identity of playing Rakdos, then maybe, with the right support, something could have been done with it.
Sadly, that's not what happened.
Yep, totally agree. One thing I meant to say was that while I really llikd the hellbent mechanic in theory and found it fun. It certainly wasn't strong
Man apparently i'm playing in a hypercompetitive meta and i didn't know. I tried to play Hythonya and was completely terrible. How can you play such a costly and telegraphed wrath? People will just play around it, or have a couple of turns to remove it.
Adapt will be like that, but also worse
Its not a phenomical card by any means. If you're gonna use it it def needs to be more casual and even then, your gonna have a rough time if you just stick it in any ol black deck. You're gonna want to use it in some sort of reanimator deck like Meren so you can put it into play for free and then dump 8 mana into her immediately. Taking advantage of the fact she's a board wipe on legs is important, otherwise she's just strictly worse than a Life's Finale.
We've seen two cards with the mechanic but given how overcosted they both are I'm inclined to agree with you. New zegana feels bad.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I assume that the reason why Adapt has different text than Monstruous is that there will be cards that can remove the counters for a benefit, allowing you to re-Adapt.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Imagine Experiment One with adapt.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I think you're too optimistic. Needing a creature with a +1/+1 counter is a real condition and a 4/4 for 4 isn't that impressive in a format where ramp and combo are the primary strategies.
Lavnia seems best in builds a lot of people are gonna whine about.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Exactly. Polukranos is certainly playable in more than a few decks, but that's more about the 5/5 for 4 that grows by eating your mana and washing it down with your opponents than the actual mechanic.
Honestly though, good on WOTC for the tentative Simic nerf. I hate that guild (the sole exception being Simic Sky Swallower who is 1000% keywords and manliness) and evolve was irritating. Rather see rakdos or literally any other guild get something cool/broken this time. Afterlife and spectacle are both much better effects already.
Edit: bedevil is an elegant card with superb art. I do just love me some removal.
I like that Simic has a consistent theme.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I actually like the riot ability, but would prefer had it been Riot X. But i guess in some cases, the X would be far better than haste.
Unlike adapt i do not see Riot coming into EDH. Some cards may find their way in (like Gruul Spellbreaker) but only due to other abilities. (or a temur build abusing +1/+1 counters)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
As cool of a mechanic that would be, very doubtful. Plus the idea of weakening a creature to cast another is not a very simic thing to do.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
In my own decks: Arbor Colossus, Colossus of Akros, Fleecemane Lion, Shipbreaker Kraken
That I have seen opponents running: Domesticated Hydra, Hundred-Handed One, Hydra Broodmaster, Hythonia the Cruel, Kalemne's Captain, Nemesis of Mortals, Polis Crusher, Polukranos, World Eater, Stormbreath Dragon
So of the 27 monstrous creatures, I've seen 13 in use, just short of half of them.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Anyone else see Riot as a strictly better version of Unleash and then think about how bad unleash was in contract and how screwed Rakdos was in the last block? Fortunately, spectacle seems loads better. I've been thinking lately that noncombat damage is the main crossover between Red and Black mechanically and imo it makes much more sense to have a mechanic that capitalizes on this shared feature.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Personally I was hoping for a mechanic to continue this playstyle which was still somewhat existant in the second Rav block with the aformentioned Sire of Insanity as well as one of my absolute favourite modern cards, Shrieking Affliction. That said, SA isn't technically Rakdos card but meh. I didn't get what I wanted but I'm still pleased we didn't get something garbage again like Unleash.
Personally, i'm hoping for one of the BR legends to have synergy with Hellbent/ Sire of Insanity. I would adore something akin to Shrieking Affliction that made creature tokens on each players upkeep if they had 1 or less cards in hand. Or something like that anyway.
Edit: Actually, Rix Maadi Reveler fits into the playstyle I mentioned because if you don't have a hand, discarding your hand to then drawing 3 is all upside with no downside.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
There are likely going to be some Adapt cards that see play (I personally like Zegana) just like there are Monstrous cards that see play. And, just like Monstrous, not all need to see play for the mechanic to offer some good cards for the format. You don't like the mechanic obviously but that doesn't make it a bad mechanic for the people who do like what they see or the ones that do like Monstrous. Especially since we have seen a total of 2 cards with Adapt.
Ofc they can tack on other triggers I.e. hythonia to make it relevant. Note that nearly all the played monstrosities have extra triggers (and of the others, they're imo very questionable, like domesticated hydra). In most cases the best of those cards would be basically fine if they had monstrosity 0, because the default utility of the ability - the stat boost - isn't what makes them playable. But it does jack up the cost of the abilities to balance for other formats, hence why people are pessimistic.
There'll probably be some played adapt/riot creatures, but it won't be because of the ability to get fatter one time, I'd wager. Or at least, not the good ones.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Yep, totally agree. One thing I meant to say was that while I really llikd the hellbent mechanic in theory and found it fun. It certainly wasn't strong
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Emergency Powers is kind of a crazy card.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'