So, new spoilers, and a new alternative win condition - Simic Ascendancy.
It has the usual pitfall of having to go around the table at least once, so I doubt it will be as popular as Laboratory Maniac, but there's still plenty of semi-competitive and casual decks where it can find a home. I'm sure it can be useful to close out games in plenty of decks, and I'll personally be trying it out in Ezuri, Claw of Progress.
That card is going to be broken in my Pir, Imaginative Rascal // Toothy, Imaginary Friend deck. With both commanders on the field + Simic Ascendancy, every time I draw a card I would get to put for 4 counters on the ascendancy. A card draw triggers Toothy, which then triggers Pir, placing a second +1/+1 counter. That will trigger the ascendancy twice, and Pir will trigger again providing an additional ascendancy counter to each trigger.
When I draw 5 cards, I'll get 20 counters. That is no sweat. I have no idea how ofter I would win with Ascendancy, but given how easy it is to setup, it is perfect counter spell / removal bait.
That card is going to be broken in my Pir, Imaginative Rascal // Toothy, Imaginary Friend deck. With both commanders on the field + Simic Ascendancy, every time I draw a card I would get to put for 4 counters on the ascendancy. A card draw triggers Toothy, which then triggers Pir, placing a second +1/+1 counter. That will trigger the ascendancy twice, and Pir will trigger again providing an additional ascendancy counter to each trigger.
Pir is a replacement effect, not a trigger. Drawing a card gets Toothy 1 counter, and Pir modifies that event to give Toothy 2 counters instead.
Toothy getting 2 counters triggers Ascendancy once to get 2 counters, and Pir modifies that event to give Ascendency 3 counters instead.
It turns off so much. Dredge if you have fewer lands than the CMC. Sunforger. Cascade. Improvise and convoke. Pacts too, since they are CMC 0. It is a hatebear made for modern, that hates on so many unfair things... and I just see it being unfun to play against in commander.
Lavinia, Azorius Renegade is quite the fun police card and a huge deal. She's going to be a staple for sure. I don't think she's AS disruptive as Teeg's, but she isn't far off. In a format reliant on mana rocks and "cheater lands" like Cabal Coffers, she pumps the breaks hard. Because she clues off CMC, she also makes stuff like Blasphemous Act uncastable and puts a major damper on alternative casting cost cards like Force of Will, Gush, and other such cards. She completely and utterly shuts down Cascade, Rebound, Suspend, Cipher, Aluren, Sunforger, Narset, Enlightened Master, Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge, and dozens of other more niche cards. It is a bit of a shame that her first ability only hits non-creatures considering WU is the enemy of Gruul, and it would be flavorful for her to kibosh elfball. Also since she doesn't have a clause against X I'm pretty sure she won't stop any of those cheater lands from powering out massive Genesis Waves and Torment of Hailfires. She's still insane though.
Tithe Taker faces competition from Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Grand Abolisher as far as hate bears of this type go, but makes up for it with Afterlife and the unique ability to put the damper on activated abilities - at the very least, it'll make folks think twice before spinning their Tops and make it harder for opponents to "go off" with certain combos outside their own turns. It's niche, but may find some homes.
Yeah, Simic Ascendancy is a bit more niche seems sick in pretty much any Vorel or Pir/Toothy build. 6 counters per turn at a minimum with Pir and Toothy out (3 for drawing a card, 3 for activing ascendancy)? It also can grow faster/easier than Darksteel Reactor or Helix Pinnacle, so its easier to double it up to a win with Vorel. Just excellent.
Growth Spiral makes me smile, and there is some amount of Temur and Simic commanders running Explore. We can debate if any of them except Tatvoya should be running it, but this is a straight upgrade as an instant - not many ways out there to trigger Landfall on an opposing turn.
Simic Ascendancy almost feels like cheating in a Vorel +1/+1 counter deck. Proliferate is especially good given that it adds a Growth counter to Ascendancy plus it adds +1/+1 counters to your team which adds more Growth counters to Ascendancy... and given that a single activation with Vorel can take you from 10 counters to winning the game is pretty sick. You can probably get to 20 counters with just running Graft, Evolve, and Modular cards, or even with just an Avenger of Zendikar + Fetchland, so it doesn't feel like you really have to work for your alternate win-con. I'm kinda on the fence as to whether I want to go down that path or not.
I'm torn; the new Lavinia is such a sweeeeeet little hatebear, but she's too niche in her capacities to really build around and I don't want to rebuild Derevi just to play some totally ballin' new STAX.
That being said, I probably will anyway. New Lav was born for that deck.
BIG EDIT: Holy smoke that Tithe Taker doe. The universe wants me to build this deck. This is a sign.
It turns off so much. Dredge if you have fewer lands than the CMC. Sunforger. Cascade. Improvise and convoke. Pacts too, since they are CMC 0. It is a hatebear made for modern, that hates on so many unfair things... and I just see it being unfun to play against in commander.
Lavinia, Azorius Renegade shuts down Jhoria decks hard,along with other cheat into pplay decks if I understand "Whenever an opponent casts a spell, if no mana was spent to cast it, counter that spell." correctly.
Lavinia, Azorius Renegade shuts down Jhoria decks hard,along with other cheat into pplay decks if I understand "Whenever an opponent casts a spell, if no mana was spent to cast it, counter that spell." correctly.
Not just Jhoira decks but also Narset, Yennett, and Jeleva. She also makes Dream Halls asymmetrical, is a hard lock with Knowledge Pool, as well as a soft lock with Omen Machine.
Sure, there is a chance of spending $4 on a booster and getting the Mythic Rare $30 super card. There is also a chance of surviving putting your tongue in a light socket.
While Simic Ascendancy is indeed awesome I’d like to point out to some of you that it says “one or more” so when you draw a card with Pir and Toothy the ascendancy will still only get two counters. No matter how many things you proliferate with Atraxa you still only get one counter plus the one you add with proliferate. Any time wizards wants to limit how crazy something can be “one or more” is their easy button.
While Simic Ascendancy is indeed awesome I’d like to point out to some of you that it says “one or more” so when you draw a card with Pir and Toothy the ascendancy will still only get two counters. No matter how many things you proliferate with Atraxa you still only get one counter plus the one you add with proliferate. Any time wizards wants to limit how crazy something can be “one or more” is their easy button.
I accept your MTG legalese challenge. Let us duel with honor.
That being said, you are incorrect in this scenario. Let's look at ascendancy's second ability. It is a triggered ability that reads "Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on a creature you control, put that many growth counters on Simic Ascendancy."
Now, usually the "one or more" is a classic WOTC gimp a la The Gitrog Monster, but in this case, the "that many" in the second clause indicates that when a creature you control gets any number of +1/+1 counters, an the triggered ability will put an equal number on the ascendancy. If anything, the "one or more" clause now enables this get out of hand as opposed to limit it because now bursts of +1/+1 counters are tracked individually as opposed to being grouped into "instances" as often happens with lifegain effects.
Livinia looks good. She also shuts down my Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain deck. (Unless i get 5 lands out, but chances are I will not, if I can cast my general, I can usually go off very early game. Eve win the exact turn I cast her. (Usually turn 3, a lot of cheap mana rocks and then i just keep casting 0 cost artifacts)
I have also won turn one, and turn two.
I also played a match where she got removed every turn, and by the end i had 14 commander tax. I still won. (They ran out of removal)
While Simic Ascendancy is indeed awesome I’d like to point out to some of you that it says “one or more” so when you draw a card with Pir and Toothy the ascendancy will still only get two counters. No matter how many things you proliferate with Atraxa you still only get one counter plus the one you add with proliferate. Any time wizards wants to limit how crazy something can be “one or more” is their easy button.
If you proliferate multiple creatures with +1/+1 counters in an Atraxa deck, Ascendancy will trigger multiple times.
If you've got Pir and Toothy out, drawing a card will get you 3 growth counters. Toothy gets a +1/+1, modified to two +1/+1s by Pir. Ascendancy triggers to get two growth counters, modified to 3 by Pir.
While Ascendancy does say "one or more", it also says "that many". And it's per creature getting counters.
The more and more I think about Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, the more and more I realize that she totally hoses all sorts of shenanigans that are commonly played. Making mana doublers like Mana Reflection, Mirari's Wake, Crypt Ghast, and Nirkana Revenant play much more "fair" by limiting the amount of mana you can dump into a single spell is a huge hit to some decks; no 30-card Genesis Waves or 30-point Exsanguinates for you! Hosing artifact ramp decks has already been mentioned, but cards like Metalworker take a huge hit, and the ability for people to play Eldrazi and huge artifacts is severely limited. This also hoses creature-based ramp decks like Elves by limiting what you can do with all that Priest of Titania and Elvish Archdruid mana. This also puts a crimp on some combo decks like Prossh Food Chain, Wort Mana Echoes or Earthcraft, etc. I also wonder whether decks like Phelddagrif that sometimes play a 'Group Hug' kind of style will play this to essentially make card like Rites of Flourishing, Heartbeat of Spring, and Dictate of Karametra into more one-sided affairs. And that is just the first ability.
Any thing with graft
Anything with proliferate
Anything with evolve (hey maybe we will get more in this set if it’s simic mechanic)
Pir and toothy
Several hydras (put three in particual)
Anything with devour especially Bloodspore Thrinax
Anything with bolster
I accept your MTG legalese challenge. Let us duel with honor.
That being said, you are incorrect in this scenario. Let's look at ascendancy's second ability. It is a triggered ability that reads "Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on a creature you control, put that many growth counters on Simic Ascendancy."
Now, usually the "one or more" is a classic WOTC gimp a la The Gitrog Monster, but in this case, the "that many" in the second clause indicates that when a creature you control gets any number of +1/+1 counters, an the triggered ability will put an equal number on the ascendancy. If anything, the "one or more" clause now enables this get out of hand as opposed to limit it because now bursts of +1/+1 counters are tracked individually as opposed to being grouped into "instances" as often happens with lifegain effects.
Oh *****. I missed the “that many” part. My apologies.
I acknowledge the potential of Simic Ascendancy, especially when Atraxa exists (but then again Atraxa basically synergizes with anything counter-based anyway), but from a personal standpoint influenced by my meta, it's likely going to be a "do-nothing" enchantment that attracts too much attention if I try to slow-roll it, so it'll probably be functionally a GU add-on to "If you can add 20 +1/+1 counters in a turn cycle, you win the game", because I don't see this (or me) surviving 2 turn cycles (in fact 1 cycle might even be a stretch already).
Lavinia, Azorius Renegade... now that's interesting. It's in a few ways like Gaddock Teeg and in several other ways vastly different from Teeg as well. Considering she locks out 0-cost cards I can already imagine the terror if someone successfully builds a land-destruction-stax build around her. I might be interested to test her out in Isperia but I'm not sure exactly how impactful she would be since the deck is not tailored around her.
I have both Atraxa (built around the 4 Ascensions from Zendikar) and Kraj (for now, until we see the Simic Legendary), so Simic Ascendancy is completely in flavor for my two decks.
Well, we've only seen Aeromunculus and Zegana, Utopian Speaker so far, and Aeromunculus being a common is understanding that it would be bad for EDH. But Zegana, Utopian Speaker is pretty good in my opinion, albeit that the Adapt ability is not really what makes it good. In Zegana's case, it seems more like a tack-on ability. My hope is that there are some Adapt creatures with more aggressively costed Adapt abilities that may be playable in Commander, so I would reserve judgment until we see more of the set.
It has the usual pitfall of having to go around the table at least once, so I doubt it will be as popular as Laboratory Maniac, but there's still plenty of semi-competitive and casual decks where it can find a home. I'm sure it can be useful to close out games in plenty of decks, and I'll personally be trying it out in Ezuri, Claw of Progress.
That card is going to be broken in my Pir, Imaginative Rascal // Toothy, Imaginary Friend deck. With both commanders on the field + Simic Ascendancy, every time I draw a card I would get to put for 4 counters on the ascendancy. A card draw triggers Toothy, which then triggers Pir, placing a second +1/+1 counter. That will trigger the ascendancy twice, and Pir will trigger again providing an additional ascendancy counter to each trigger.
When I draw 5 cards, I'll get 20 counters. That is no sweat. I have no idea how ofter I would win with Ascendancy, but given how easy it is to setup, it is perfect counter spell / removal bait.
Toothy getting 2 counters triggers Ascendancy once to get 2 counters, and Pir modifies that event to give Ascendency 3 counters instead.
It's still nice, but only 3 growth counters per card draw, not 4. I do think I'll be replacing Helix Pinnacle in my Vorel of the Hull Clade deck, since the only time I come close to winning with Helix is if I'm doubling counters on Everflowing Chalice or Astral Cornucopia.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I just wish she wasn't limited to non creature spells. Why do critters keep getting a pass from this kind of effect?
It turns off so much. Dredge if you have fewer lands than the CMC. Sunforger. Cascade. Improvise and convoke.
Pacts too, since they are CMC 0. It is a hatebear made for modern, that hates on so many unfair things... and I just see it being unfun to play against in commander.
It counters Epic spells too.
Seems decent with Lullmage Mentor.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Tithe Taker faces competition from Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Grand Abolisher as far as hate bears of this type go, but makes up for it with Afterlife and the unique ability to put the damper on activated abilities - at the very least, it'll make folks think twice before spinning their Tops and make it harder for opponents to "go off" with certain combos outside their own turns. It's niche, but may find some homes.
Yeah, Simic Ascendancy is a bit more niche seems sick in pretty much any Vorel or Pir/Toothy build. 6 counters per turn at a minimum with Pir and Toothy out (3 for drawing a card, 3 for activing ascendancy)? It also can grow faster/easier than Darksteel Reactor or Helix Pinnacle, so its easier to double it up to a win with Vorel. Just excellent.
Growth Spiral makes me smile, and there is some amount of Temur and Simic commanders running Explore. We can debate if any of them except Tatvoya should be running it, but this is a straight upgrade as an instant - not many ways out there to trigger Landfall on an opposing turn.
Light the Stage and Rix Maadi Reveler seem excellent in Rakdos, Lord of Riots and Neheb, the Eternal (Light only), but probably too inconsistent everywhere else. I don't hate them though.
Mortify is always nice to see reprinted, and the new art and flavortext is great (although not as good as the Duel Deck one)
Rakdos Firewheeler seems more like a limited/constructed card than a commander one; Murderous Redcap is STEEP competition.
Rafter Demon is draft fodder and bad draft fodder at that. I don't think I'd run it even in a budget Rakdos the Defiler list.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
And Light the Stage seems like it could be busted in some other formats where burn is a thing, but also really good in EDH where you can more easily set the top of your deck up with Sensei's Divining Top, Scroll Rack, or similar effects. I've said before that red "impulse draw" is hard to balance, but by making this tied to the new Rakdos mechanic seems like the right way to push this kind of effect. Act on Impulse, Abbot of Keral Keep, OG Elkin Bottle, etc. all suffer from costing 2+ mana to setup the draw, whereas Commune With Lava, Outpost Siege, Prophetic Flamespeaker, Chandra, Pyromancer all require you to wait. With Light the Stage only costing one, I think that the effect is good enough to see play.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
That being said, I probably will anyway. New Lav was born for that deck.
BIG EDIT: Holy smoke that Tithe Taker doe. The universe wants me to build this deck. This is a sign.
Probably because a big non-creature spell cast early will end the game, while a big creature cast early usually don't, even if it's your commander.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
She only stops things that are Cast and Epic spells are not cast after the first time, so no she does not stop them.
Not just Jhoira decks but also Narset, Yennett, and Jeleva. She also makes Dream Halls asymmetrical, is a hard lock with Knowledge Pool, as well as a soft lock with Omen Machine.
I accept your MTG legalese challenge. Let us duel with honor.
That being said, you are incorrect in this scenario. Let's look at ascendancy's second ability. It is a triggered ability that reads "Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on a creature you control, put that many growth counters on Simic Ascendancy."
Now, usually the "one or more" is a classic WOTC gimp a la The Gitrog Monster, but in this case, the "that many" in the second clause indicates that when a creature you control gets any number of +1/+1 counters, an the triggered ability will put an equal number on the ascendancy. If anything, the "one or more" clause now enables this get out of hand as opposed to limit it because now bursts of +1/+1 counters are tracked individually as opposed to being grouped into "instances" as often happens with lifegain effects.
I have also won turn one, and turn two.
I also played a match where she got removed every turn, and by the end i had 14 commander tax. I still won. (They ran out of removal)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
That's my wager too personally. It feels like a lot of the text is getting cleaner for the transition to Arena in the near future.
If you've got Pir and Toothy out, drawing a card will get you 3 growth counters. Toothy gets a +1/+1, modified to two +1/+1s by Pir. Ascendancy triggers to get two growth counters, modified to 3 by Pir.
While Ascendancy does say "one or more", it also says "that many". And it's per creature getting counters.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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The second ability shuts down and/or severely limits free spell Commanders like Narset, Enlightened Master, Rashmi, Eternities Crafter, Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder, Maelstrom Wanderer (and Cascade in general), Jhoira of the Ghitu (and Suspend in general), Taigam, Ojutai Master (and Rebound in general), Animar, Soul of Elements shenanigans, Etali, Jeleva, and Wrexial, as well as Hideaway lands, Cipher spells, Rebound spells, and the aforementioned Suspend and Cascade spells. There are also lots of individual cards like Isochron Scepter, Descendants' Path, Sunforger, Torrential Gearhulk, Treasure Keeper, Bring to Light, Epic Experiment, Sunbird's Invocation, etc. that get hosed by this. This also hoses 0-cost artifacts like Mana Crypt, Everflowing Chalice (I think since kicker is an additional cost so the CMC is always 0), Mox Opal, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Mox Amber.
So yeah, I see this card making some waves in Commander and possibly in some other formats as well.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Lets see what cards can break this
Ah got some ideas
Any thing with graft
Anything with proliferate
Anything with evolve (hey maybe we will get more in this set if it’s simic mechanic)
Pir and toothy
Several hydras (put three in particual)
Anything with devour especially Bloodspore Thrinax
Anything with bolster
And last but not least doubling season
And ofcoarse if I missed any let me know since the list will just keep going and going...
Oh *****. I missed the “that many” part. My apologies.
Lavinia, Azorius Renegade... now that's interesting. It's in a few ways like Gaddock Teeg and in several other ways vastly different from Teeg as well. Considering she locks out 0-cost cards I can already imagine the terror if someone successfully builds a land-destruction-stax build around her. I might be interested to test her out in Isperia but I'm not sure exactly how impactful she would be since the deck is not tailored around her.
Well, we've only seen Aeromunculus and Zegana, Utopian Speaker so far, and Aeromunculus being a common is understanding that it would be bad for EDH. But Zegana, Utopian Speaker is pretty good in my opinion, albeit that the Adapt ability is not really what makes it good. In Zegana's case, it seems more like a tack-on ability. My hope is that there are some Adapt creatures with more aggressively costed Adapt abilities that may be playable in Commander, so I would reserve judgment until we see more of the set.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections