Normally through spoiler season I see new legendaries get spoiled and Im very impartial, as very few get me excited. But The Scarab God is a different story! Its the commander I didnt know I needed. A multifacted Dimir legendary that doesnt focus on mill!! Im excited to start brainstorming!
Never have i needed something so badly and not know it until i received it.
-Vegeta
New demon is interesting. My instinct is that Sidisi, Undead Vizier is still better as a commander with her much lower CMC, but this guy will likely be good as one of the 99 (particularly replacing Rune-Scarred Demon) as you're probably not paying the full mana cost for him...
The new demon is easier to exploit in right deck. I'll be replacing Run-Scarred with him in my Grimgrin deck because that deck has lots of, token production, reanimation and black mana ramp. I am more likely to score multiple triggers with Raz than Rune, and my list is capped out at 3 cards 7cc or greater.
New demon is interesting. My instinct is that Sidisi, Undead Vizier is still better as a commander with her much lower CMC, but this guy will likely be good as one of the 99 (particularly replacing Rune-Scarred Demon) as you're probably not paying the full mana cost for him...
why replace rune scar? Why not run both?
Because I can't see many decks needing to double up on the "expensive creature that tutors" effect. One's nice to have as a reanimation target, but the second seems a waste.
The torment cycle is a big deal for me. Even if the removal spell and the enchantemnt are more narrow in application, the fact that black even has a chance to answer non-land permanents in-color is super cool.
Hailfire is just straight up backbreaking, without regards to color-pie.
Yep, probably going to build an EDH deck with Torment of Hailfire as the main wincon. Seems like it'd be super fun to win by casting it for X=20+ (30+, 50+ 100+???)
He is the 99 of any superfreinds deck that uses white (Which is pretty much all due to the fact that white has PW tutor spells.)
I see this guy wanting to get Ajani steadfast's emblem off. As it prevents your PWs from ever getting hit.
He is the 99 of any superfreinds deck that uses white (Which is pretty much all due to the fact that white has PW tutor spells.)
I see this guy wanting to get Ajani steadfast's emblem off. As it prevents your PWs from ever getting hit.
In all honesty I can't even see him appearing in that many superfriends decks (barring those that don't have any actual plan beyond throwing in any card that mentions "planeswalker" somewhere), he's just not really that good. 5 mana for a tutor is extremely expensive, and if you want to be protecting your PWs from damage and are in white, I've found Wrath of God and friends do a hell of a lot better job than anything cute like Djeru.
The worat thing about Torment of Hailfire is that it needs +1 mana invested for every nonland permanent and card in hand for every opponent. You'd need to be able to clear their board and empty their hands in the same turn you cast it to guarantee the win without making ridonkulous amounts of mana(not that I dont know that's possible.)
The worat thing about Torment of Hailfire is that it needs +1 mana invested for every nonland permanent and card in hand for every opponent. You'd need to be able to clear their board and empty their hands in the same turn you cast it to guarantee the win without making ridonkulous amounts of mana(not that I dont know that's possible.)
The flip side is that it's a lot more efficent than Exsanguinate and such, since it can do 3 life per one invested in the X. So for example, with X=7, you can drain everyone for 21, where exanguinate needs x=21 to do that. So even if you have to pump more into it to get a guaranteed kill around their board/hand state, unless everyone has 14+ cards/nonland permanents it's still more mana efficent than Exanguinate at higher life totals. Plus, in situations where it's close but not quite an autokill, it can still be useful to strip their hand and board.
The worat thing about Torment of Hailfire is that it needs +1 mana invested for every nonland permanent and card in hand for every opponent. You'd need to be able to clear their board and empty their hands in the same turn you cast it to guarantee the win without making ridonkulous amounts of mana(not that I dont know that's possible.)
The flip side is that it's a lot more efficent than Exsanguinate and such, since it can do 3 life per one invested in the X. So for example, with X=7, you can drain everyone for 21, where exanguinate needs x=21 to do that. So even if you have to pump more into it to get a guaranteed kill around their board/hand state, unless everyone has 14+ cards/nonland permanents it's still more mana efficent than Exanguinate at higher life totals. Plus, in situations where it's close but not quite an autokill, it can still be useful to strip their hand and board.
I think the greatest weakness Torment of Hailfire would face is against a token deck.
The flip side is that it's a lot more efficent than Exsanguinate and such, since it can do 3 life per one invested in the X. So for example, with X=7, you can drain everyone for 21, where exanguinate needs x=21 to do that. So even if you have to pump more into it to get a guaranteed kill around their board/hand state, unless everyone has 14+ cards/nonland permanents it's still more mana efficent than Exanguinate at higher life totals. Plus, in situations where it's close but not quite an autokill, it can still be useful to strip their hand and board.
I think comparing Exsanguinate to Torment of Hailfire is flawed. They're superficially similar in that they can both drain a lot of life, but Hailfire is ultimately a punisher card. The opponent will always choose the options that benefit them best. I want to view Hailfire as an asymmetrical Death Cloud without the land destruction, but I just don't see that happening very often, as smart opponents would take the loss of life to keep their most important permanents.
Of course, I run Wound Reflection, so the "Surprise! You're dead!" option is available to me if opponents become too reckless with their life totals.
I think the greatest weakness Torment of Hailfire would face is against a token deck.
That and mana denial decks, obv. I'm not too worried about tokens too much in MBC, though, which is where Torment of Hailfire will likely find its home.
I imagine it to be pretty easy to make Torment of Hailfire a wincon... Either cast it the turn right after a boardwipe or mass hand removal spell, or just dumb massive amounts of mana in it. With either of those scenarios, it won't matter what their choices are, and that's when this card is the best.
I imagine it to be pretty easy to make Torment of Hailfire a wincon... Either cast it the turn right after a boardwipe or mass hand removal spell, or just dumb massive amounts of mana in it. With either of those scenarios, it won't matter what their choices are, and that's when this card is the best.
Well I am gonna run it in teh board wipe deck i am building so yea, it is a plan.
Torment of Hailfire is also a wonderful card to copy. As the copy version will also have the same X amount. Such as paying 10 for X and then using Reiterate with buyback while it is still on the stack. Effectively creating 20 equaling X.
I think Djeru could be a commander that will go get Karn and Ugin to control the board. Interesting for a mono-white deck. It can also go get Nahiri for an equipment subtheme.
I don't think Gideons are where you want to be in EDH. Elspeths and Ajanis can help voltron Djeru as well.
Razaketh is very interesting and will make at least one of my decks. It is different from Sidisi in that you can tutor all the parts of your combo immediately.
I agree that this card has a lot of potential. However, I wil just put it in the 99 and enjoy it.
Hailfire is indeed not really the same as Exaanguinate. But why not run both in MBC?
I personally am not a fan of it. But if you want to, be my guest. Also understandble of just putting it as 1:99, I'm sure Kaalia of the Vast would get some mileage out of him.
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Never have i needed something so badly and not know it until i received it.
-Vegeta
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Because I can't see many decks needing to double up on the "expensive creature that tutors" effect. One's nice to have as a reanimation target, but the second seems a waste.
I'd want one in my Atraxa superfriends deck, but that's about it.
The torment cycle is a big deal for me. Even if the removal spell and the enchantemnt are more narrow in application, the fact that black even has a chance to answer non-land permanents in-color is super cool.
Hailfire is just straight up backbreaking, without regards to color-pie.
He is the 99 of any superfreinds deck that uses white (Which is pretty much all due to the fact that white has PW tutor spells.)
I see this guy wanting to get Ajani steadfast's emblem off. As it prevents your PWs from ever getting hit.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
In all honesty I can't even see him appearing in that many superfriends decks (barring those that don't have any actual plan beyond throwing in any card that mentions "planeswalker" somewhere), he's just not really that good. 5 mana for a tutor is extremely expensive, and if you want to be protecting your PWs from damage and are in white, I've found Wrath of God and friends do a hell of a lot better job than anything cute like Djeru.
Oh, baby. Resolving this for X = 10+ is going to be a lot of fun. I enjoy making my opponents make tough decisions, and this fits the bill perfectly.
Too bad about the name. "Torment of Hailfire"? Come on.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Lol hailfire, dubbing it now, Nerf-gun
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I think the greatest weakness Torment of Hailfire would face is against a token deck.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I think comparing Exsanguinate to Torment of Hailfire is flawed. They're superficially similar in that they can both drain a lot of life, but Hailfire is ultimately a punisher card. The opponent will always choose the options that benefit them best. I want to view Hailfire as an asymmetrical Death Cloud without the land destruction, but I just don't see that happening very often, as smart opponents would take the loss of life to keep their most important permanents.
Of course, I run Wound Reflection, so the "Surprise! You're dead!" option is available to me if opponents become too reckless with their life totals.
That and mana denial decks, obv. I'm not too worried about tokens too much in MBC, though, which is where Torment of Hailfire will likely find its home.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Well I am gonna run it in teh board wipe deck i am building so yea, it is a plan.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I think Djeru could be a commander that will go get Karn and Ugin to control the board. Interesting for a mono-white deck. It can also go get Nahiri for an equipment subtheme.
I don't think Gideons are where you want to be in EDH. Elspeths and Ajanis can help voltron Djeru as well.
Razaketh is very interesting and will make at least one of my decks. It is different from Sidisi in that you can tutor all the parts of your combo immediately.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Younthink he could get banned?
He can get the magic infinite for wins easily.
1 Razaketh, the Foulblooded
Reusable Fodder 05
1 Bloodghast
1 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Gravecrawler
1 Nether Traitor
1 Reassembling Skeleton
Recovery 06
1 Cauldron of Souls
1 Command Beacon
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Grave Reduction 01
1 Embalmer's Tools
Increased Mana 17
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Black Market
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Caged Sun
1 City of Traitors
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Dark Ritual
1 Doubling Cube
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Rain of Filth
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
Win Conditions 06
1 Blood Artist
1 Exquisite Blood
1 Mortal Combat
1 Revel in Riches
1 Sanguine Bond
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
Thinning the Board 08
1 Attrition
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Damnation
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Grave Pact
1 Mutilate
1 Torment of Hailfire
1 Toxic Deluge
Fodder Production 07
1 Bitterblossom
1 Cryptbreaker
1 Diregraf Colossus
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
1 Grave Titan
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Tombstone Stairwell
I agree that this card has a lot of potential. However, I wil just put it in the 99 and enjoy it.
Hailfire is indeed not really the same as Exaanguinate. But why not run both in MBC?
BRGWTana and TymnaBRGW
RTeneb, the EternalR
UBRNekusar, Mind RazerUBR
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
BGWGhave, Guru of SporesBGW
Aurelia, the Warleader
BDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefB
WBROros, the AvengerWBR