Hey guys! I'm joining the tread of the stax EDH! I am currently building a WB stax with Kambal,Consul of Allocation. I wanted to know some of your ideas of auto-include in it! So far I'm more on enchantement focusing and some creatures tax effect. I dont really have the budget for all the expensive mana rock so we can avoid them ! ahah thanks
Hey guys never played any Commander before... Not sure the size of my local meta(decent size city/store) but do you think Its bad form to be a new guy playing Stax? Is it common in metagames? It seems like such an annoying/unfun deck to play against (the fun part for us).
Hey guys never played any Commander before... Not sure the size of my local meta(decent size city/store) but do you think Its bad form to be a new guy playing Stax? Is it common in metagames? It seems like such an annoying/unfun deck to play against (the fun part for us).
If it is the only deck you have people might not enjoy playing multiple games in a row with you. I can enjoy playing vs stax, but win or lose, I would be looking around the room for another group after a few games.
Yeah, Stax is not universally accepted in EDH, and even among those of us who do enjoy playing against it, we often don't want to do so every game. I wouldn't suggest your first deck be a Stax one, especially if you don't know the meta you're going to be playing in.
Yeah, Stax is not universally accepted in EDH, and even among those of us who do enjoy playing against it, we often don't want to do so every game. I wouldn't suggest your first deck be a Stax one, especially if you don't know the meta you're going to be playing in.
Hmm suggestions then? I like disruptive strategies, Mardu is my preferred color combination. I like some graveyard recursion, land destruction, that kind of stuff. Pox and the like.
Question #1: how would you get the most use out of Fall of the Thran?
So far, I've determined that Smokestack would do an excellent job of removing the enchantment before players could return any lands to their hand. Or I could try returning Fall of the Thran to my hand via a bounce spell, or some stax effect that would make me have to bounce a permanent.
Question #2: In an Esper-colored stax deck featuring Oloro, I'm looking to use the following for recursion:[list]
[list]
[*]Archaeomancer for instant/sorcery recursion Treasure Hunter for artifact recursion Auramancer for enchantment recursion
[/list]
Should I use Phyrexian Reclamation or some other card for creature recursion?
Question #3: I'm thinking about using Doomsday to arrange my deck into a small pile to create a recurring lock, after getting enough mana rocks and stax permanents into play:
[numlist]
[*]Death Cloud hit their life total, cards in hand, creatures and lands. Oloro offsets the loss of life. Torment of Hailfire to hit more life, cards in hand, and nonland permanents. Key to removing their artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers I otherwise can't touch. Pox for the same reason as Death Cloud.
? Not sure what the fourth card in the Doomsday pile should be, probably depends on the situation. ? Elixir of Immortality to offset further life loss and shuffle the graveyard back into the library to repeat the shenanigans. If I expect mill to show up in my meta, I can always opt for an old legendary Eldrazi to put into the grave and keep things rolling.
[/numlist]
List tags are malformed.
Is there a particular reason you want Fall of the Thran over Catastrophe? I assume you've already got Armageddon. I wouldn't overload on MLD because you usually only need 1 to lock things down.
I am actually surprised and happy to see Fall of the Thran. I didn't think we'd ever see an MLD spell ever again, and this one is a gift to both lockout and tempo uses of MLD.
The lockout use, definitely, find a way to bounce it or reset the counters. The tempo use, just lay it down and watch your deck function on 2-4 mana while everyone else's hiccups. Like a Keldon Firebombers.
Muldrotha says hi & welcome to your stax nightmare. Sultai is undoubtedly the best 3 colors, if not the best 3 color mix. To give this color combination a ready-made stax commander is nearly lunacy.
Note: forego the money for Lion’s Eye Diamond if you’re tempted. Geth, Lord of the Vault is a good card that exists and is played by black players worth their salt. Best case with Geth online, you’re one Praetor’s Grasp away from everyone losing even when LED is still ‘safely’ in your deck.
Muldrotha says hi & welcome to your stax nightmare. Sultai is undoubtedly the best 3 colors, if not the best 3 color mix. To give this color combination a ready-made stax commander is nearly lunacy.
Note: forego the money for Lion’s Eye Diamond if you’re tempted. Geth, Lord of the Vault is a good card that exists and is played by black players worth their salt. Best case with Geth online, you’re one Praetor’s Grasp away from everyone losing even when LED is still ‘safely’ in your deck.
Uh, no.
There are better Commanders for Stax than Muldrotha, & and there are better strategies for Muldrotha than Stax.
Also, if you are not playing Lion's Eye in Muldrotha because you are afraid of Geth, something is very, very wrong.
Geth & Praetors Grasp are a bad cards outside of the most casual of groups, and easy to deal with.
Lion's Eye is one of, if not the strongest card available for Muldrotha.
Traxos was excellent at the helm of my Workshop Aggro Stax list. I did proxy up the workshop though... anyway. Traxos is a beast in 1 vs 1. Hitting your opponent for 7 each turn while keeping him down with Static Orb/Trinisphere/ challice etc is really, really strong.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
Traxos was excellent at the helm of my Workshop Aggro Stax list. I did proxy up the workshop though... anyway. Traxos is a beast in 1 vs 1. Hitting your opponent for 7 each turn while keeping him down with Static Orb/Trinisphere/ challice etc is really, really strong.
But why run stax 1v1? It needs to be able to handle an entire table, not just one player.
Looking to get into stax with Queen Marchesa at the helm. Currently, one of the finishers is Kiki-Resto/Felidar Guardian, but I really don't like the amount of mana invested into that when I'm staxing the table. I also thought about just throwing swords into the deck, some artifact tutors, then getting in with token makers as a wincon (or the deathtouch commander/assassin). That seems fairly weak to board control, and doesn't sport any inevitability. I don't like going with super meta combos (so no 'Mike and Trike'), so what is an inevitable and staxy finish for the deck?
Tainted Remedy + Tree of Perdition + Triskaidekaphobia entered my mind, but there are most likely better commanders for that (like a dedicated lifeswap deck). On the other hand, a combo as slow as that might belong in a stax deck...
I would like to forewarn that I am on a loose budget. Modern is my primary format, so I lack the funds to spend 800 dollars on my second EDH deck (the first is Marchesa, the Black Rose).
Well, a minor tweak would be to use Village Bell-Ringer instead of Felidar Guardian, so both the untap options you have for the Kiki combo can be flashed in EoT thus spread the mana over two turns without exposing your combo to a turn cycle's worth of removal. Even in a stax deck hitting 5 mana isn't that hard, especially as many of the good stax effects don't impact creature costs (Thorn of Amethyst etc.). It also helps get round your Rule of Law type effects.
Attacking with your hatebears and general can be a wincon for white based stax decks (especially in more competitive metas where people often lose quite a bit of life to their own effects) but from my experience, it's still best to have a combo in there as an option, as there are times you simply can't get enough damage through. Putting a lot of effort into making your attackers stronger probably isn't worth the slots - Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite can work quite nicely as a top end, especially if you have some reanimation or other ways to cheat her in, but equipment and other buffs probably aren't worth it unless they're forming part of your asymmetry (e.g. Sword of Feast and Famine with Winter Orb).
Combos other than Kiki/Twin don't really seem to be to be a that good an option for Marchesa (long may she reign). If you're already running sac outlets, then something involving Murderous Redcap could be worth considering, but that seems something more likely to be found in Alesha when it comes to Mardu stax.
Although I do find objecting to Mike and Trike yet running Kiki-Jiki combo to be odd, as the latter is the more effective and widely played option. I can't remember the last time I saw someone actually play Mike and Trike, yet some version of Kiki/Splinter Twin seems to be the go-to finisher for decks with red that need a wincon.
Has anyone tried brewing with Muldrotha, the Gravetide yet?
Seems like she could be awesome in a stacks shell, we don't mind stuff in the yard anyway.
(sorry if this has been discussed, just checked in after a long hiatus again)
While the Gravetide may very well be the best UBG Stax Commander, Stax is not the best Gravetide build. Also consider that there are far superior choices for Stax in other color combinations.
Something to keep in mind for Stax is that, while you probably should be utilizing cards like Smokestack, most of the Stax strategy revolves around Resistance & Orb effects to strain resources. The Gravetide has no particular synergy with those, or their complementary support.
What are bad matchups for stax and what is good tech against stax?
Aggro can be some of the worst matchups. Especially if you have cards like Bitterblossom which produce a token every turn. Actually, a staple of Stax decks is to use the same cards which Stax folds to. And you must look for "weird" cards. (Mycosynth Lattice comes to mind. Null Rod and Aura Shards both exist and either will cause you nothing but headaches if every permanent—including your lands—is an artifact.) Always remember, if a card is strange, it's there for a reason; KOS or face a hard lock.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
What are bad matchups for stax and what is good tech against stax?
The best "tech" will always be a good hand and fast start. But decks built around lots of low cmc permanents will generally fare better against Stax. Having a low-cmc commander that can be an engine will also help.
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Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
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Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
If it is the only deck you have people might not enjoy playing multiple games in a row with you. I can enjoy playing vs stax, but win or lose, I would be looking around the room for another group after a few games.
Hmm suggestions then? I like disruptive strategies, Mardu is my preferred color combination. I like some graveyard recursion, land destruction, that kind of stuff. Pox and the like.
So far, I've determined that Smokestack would do an excellent job of removing the enchantment before players could return any lands to their hand. Or I could try returning Fall of the Thran to my hand via a bounce spell, or some stax effect that would make me have to bounce a permanent.
Question #2: In an Esper-colored stax deck featuring Oloro, I'm looking to use the following for recursion:[list]
[list]
[*]Archaeomancer for instant/sorcery recursion
Treasure Hunter for artifact recursion
Auramancer for enchantment recursion
[/list]
Should I use Phyrexian Reclamation or some other card for creature recursion?
Question #3: I'm thinking about using Doomsday to arrange my deck into a small pile to create a recurring lock, after getting enough mana rocks and stax permanents into play:
[numlist]
[*]Death Cloud hit their life total, cards in hand, creatures and lands. Oloro offsets the loss of life.
Torment of Hailfire to hit more life, cards in hand, and nonland permanents. Key to removing their artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers I otherwise can't touch.
Pox for the same reason as Death Cloud.
? Not sure what the fourth card in the Doomsday pile should be, probably depends on the situation. ?
Elixir of Immortality to offset further life loss and shuffle the graveyard back into the library to repeat the shenanigans. If I expect mill to show up in my meta, I can always opt for an old legendary Eldrazi to put into the grave and keep things rolling.
[/numlist]
List tags are malformed.
Although Hex Parasite could be pretty hilarious.
Yes to the sheer sadistic malice of Hex Parasiteing Fall of the Thran for the instant-speed recurring land nukes.
The lockout use, definitely, find a way to bounce it or reset the counters. The tempo use, just lay it down and watch your deck function on 2-4 mana while everyone else's hiccups. Like a Keldon Firebombers.
Note: forego the money for Lion’s Eye Diamond if you’re tempted. Geth, Lord of the Vault is a good card that exists and is played by black players worth their salt. Best case with Geth online, you’re one Praetor’s Grasp away from everyone losing even when LED is still ‘safely’ in your deck.
Uh, no.
There are better Commanders for Stax than Muldrotha, & and there are better strategies for Muldrotha than Stax.
Also, if you are not playing Lion's Eye in Muldrotha because you are afraid of Geth, something is very, very wrong.
Geth & Praetors Grasp are a bad cards outside of the most casual of groups, and easy to deal with.
Lion's Eye is one of, if not the strongest card available for Muldrotha.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
But why run stax 1v1? It needs to be able to handle an entire table, not just one player.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Tainted Remedy + Tree of Perdition + Triskaidekaphobia entered my mind, but there are most likely better commanders for that (like a dedicated lifeswap deck). On the other hand, a combo as slow as that might belong in a stax deck...
I would like to forewarn that I am on a loose budget. Modern is my primary format, so I lack the funds to spend 800 dollars on my second EDH deck (the first is Marchesa, the Black Rose).
Attacking with your hatebears and general can be a wincon for white based stax decks (especially in more competitive metas where people often lose quite a bit of life to their own effects) but from my experience, it's still best to have a combo in there as an option, as there are times you simply can't get enough damage through. Putting a lot of effort into making your attackers stronger probably isn't worth the slots - Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite can work quite nicely as a top end, especially if you have some reanimation or other ways to cheat her in, but equipment and other buffs probably aren't worth it unless they're forming part of your asymmetry (e.g. Sword of Feast and Famine with Winter Orb).
Combos other than Kiki/Twin don't really seem to be to be a that good an option for Marchesa (long may she reign). If you're already running sac outlets, then something involving Murderous Redcap could be worth considering, but that seems something more likely to be found in Alesha when it comes to Mardu stax.
Although I do find objecting to Mike and Trike yet running Kiki-Jiki combo to be odd, as the latter is the more effective and widely played option. I can't remember the last time I saw someone actually play Mike and Trike, yet some version of Kiki/Splinter Twin seems to be the go-to finisher for decks with red that need a wincon.
Seems like she could be awesome in a stacks shell, we don't mind stuff in the yard anyway.
(sorry if this has been discussed, just checked in after a long hiatus again)
Something to keep in mind for Stax is that, while you probably should be utilizing cards like Smokestack, most of the Stax strategy revolves around Resistance & Orb effects to strain resources. The Gravetide has no particular synergy with those, or their complementary support.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Aggro can be some of the worst matchups. Especially if you have cards like Bitterblossom which produce a token every turn. Actually, a staple of Stax decks is to use the same cards which Stax folds to. And you must look for "weird" cards. (Mycosynth Lattice comes to mind. Null Rod and Aura Shards both exist and either will cause you nothing but headaches if every permanent—including your lands—is an artifact.) Always remember, if a card is strange, it's there for a reason; KOS or face a hard lock.
For tech? I would say Tajuru Preserver is really good against Smokestack, Seedborn Muse against cards like Meekstone and Winter Orb.
On phasing:
The best "tech" will always be a good hand and fast start. But decks built around lots of low cmc permanents will generally fare better against Stax. Having a low-cmc commander that can be an engine will also help.