Which WHITE CREATURE should be removed from the list? - Single Choice
Ended Feb 16, 2019
Which BLACK CREATURES should be removed from the list? (Pick 4) - Multiple Choice
Which GREEN NONCREATURE should be removed from the list? - Single Choice
Which COLORLESS NONCREATURE should be removed from the list? - Single Choice
Quote from fzianPersonally, I like Desolation Angel and I would like to see it in the "Multicolour creature" slot. It is not so much of a mass land-d than a seal-your-board position sort of card. The "take 8 hits to kill ONE player in EDH" is misleading. By time you cast Desolation Angel: -
Most players should have less than 40 life by now.More likely than not, you will only cast Desolation Angel out when you already have a good board position at this point. This might include, having a little army of your own who could potentially blitzkrieg the rest of the table.
Quote from fistsofthorAlso, its a 5/4 flyer. Which means it has evasion. And if it does come late in the game, it can do so after green has already gotten every land out of its deck. Which means it can completely ruin the game for anyone playing green. Also, it sort of throws off people trying to activate liliana final, although having someone tuck your general with proteus staff so you get a desolation angel might not be the best day you ever had.
In any case, armageddon plus a creature is REALLY good. Remember, resolve erhnam djinn, cast armageddon is a legit strategy in magic (or at least it was). That, and players should be at less than 40 life by the time this guy comes out. I mean, their argument is like saying:
armageddon is bad because you might not have a winning board position when you cast it. Its silly. Land D is cast when you have board position and you want to solidify it. Because board position can swing a quickly when players have access to anywhere from 8 to 100 mana. And this makes sure that stops.
Quote from Magic Online »What is fun? Whatever you want it to be!
Quote from Donald_McDonaldThere are already so many better options for mass land destruction. Armageddon, Ravages of War, Cataclysm, Winter Orb, Hokori, Catastrophe, etc. and all are cheaper. The 5/4 flier isn't very important but you are basically still required to already have a better board position. A 5/4 flier isn't going to suddenly put you ahead if you are behind.
Quote from fzianTechnically, Armageddon, Ravages of War, Cataclysm, Winter Orb, and Hokori, Dust Drinker won't put you ahead if you are behind either. With either of thiis cards, you are still required to already have a better board position -- or in the case of Winter Orb and Hokori, a combo piece. The point with these category of cards is just that -- to kick your opponents while you are ahead and to keep them down.
Quote from DrTeethSakashima must stay because his ability is sui generis, but Inky can probably go (same with Palinchron -- I thought we weren't including combo pieces).
Meanwhile, I'd like to nominate a replacement for the red creature list: Kumano, Master Yamabushi. He fills two critical roles in EDH: A) a reusable source of direct damage/CA; and B) anti-recursion tech (in response to a board wipe, for instance, you can ping whatever creatures you don't want to ever see again). To make room, Taurean Mauler can safely be pink-slipped because he has the same problem as Kresh--he never remains on the board long enough to become a serious threat.
Quote from Thursdayisgodi didn't read through the 8 pages because i'm a douche but...
shouldn't wog be one of the best white spells or do you consider functionally identitical to route and other similiar spells already on there?
Quote from Thursdayisgodimperial seal = vampiric tutor right?
Quote from Thursdayisgod
imperial seal = vampiric tutor right?
Quote from Surging ChaosTo be honest, I could do that along with putting in Reverberate as a functional reprint of Fork. The Moon effects already stretch things far enough as it is, considering we made an exception with those two cards back before this list got expanded.
Quote from SlivortalI'd like to recommend Ixidron for the Top 20 blue creatures, perhaps in the place of Sakashima the Impostor or Inkwell Leviathan. Blue rarely ever gets any Wrath effects, and this one gets around indestructibility and leaves the battlefield effects, as well as leaves you with a beater that's often bigger than the aforementioned Inkwell Leviathan (although it doesn't get rid of tokens).
Quote from draftguy2Note it also deals nicely with nonmorph generals which for the most part are FAR less dangerous as 2/2's
Quote from DrTeethNot really, as any competent list is packing sac outlets.
Quote from fzianThis may seem heretical but I feel like Luminarch Ascension does not deserve a spot in the list.
Don't get me wrong. It is a good card and all. I even wrote the "Why it's good" card explanation for Luminarch Ascension here where I went on to praise its ability to hose slow-rolling control decks, its ability to provide a sizeable army, among others.
On the other hand, in multiplayer games, I just don't see it being anywhere near the Top 25 noncreatures. True, in multiplayer games, Luminarch Ascension checks whether life is lost during EACH of your opponent's beginning of end step. This could mean that in a five player game, you can theoreticallly "fulfil" the Luminarch Ascension after a mere one turn cycle. However, playing Luminarch Ascension essentially gives your opponents a quest to keep damaging you or risk being subject to your (un)holy aerial assaults. It effectively paints you as a target; in all my playgroups, I have found it easy to convince and manipulate the table to "attack the player with the Luminarch Ascension". Basically, if you are not already the target, you WILL be made "the target". If you are already the target, well, Luminarch Ascension isn't exactly going to help you and you aren't exactly going to make any new friends.
The saddest part is that Luminarch Ascension happens to be very easy to deal with notwithstanding all the fuss it creates. In all my playgroup, the player with the Luminarch Ascension almost always sees his/her Ascension being bounced, destroyed, removed or otherwise neutered before the Ascension actually goes "online". Mind you, most of the times, even after your Luminarch Ascension has been dealt with, the table may choose to continue targeting you anyway, if only for your failed "world domination" attempt. Personally, I don't think it is worth it turning the table against you for such uncertain returns.
Again, it is not a bad card per se. It is just the format (i.e. multiplayer) that makes this card dangerous.
I would recommend the following cards as replacements: -
It costs 4WU when kicked but it is potentially a three-for-one when kicked. Admittedly, it is not playable in monowhite decks though to my defence, it is a monowhite card
This is one of the more acceptable ways for monowhite decks to get some semblance of "card advantage" -- note that it also gives you nonbasic plains or to Mana Severance yourself if needs be. Obviously, care should be taken that this would not backfire.
Quote from Blue WarlockWhile I agree that Luminarch draws a lot of hate, can't the same be said of just about other really good card? Sure, Ascension has directions on it for people that are bad at magic, but if someone drops a Necroptence or Teferi experienced players would do the same thing.
Being attacked for running good cards is no reason to stop running them.
Quote from fzianI think that Luminarch Ascension departs from the cards you mentioned in two ways. Firstly, unlike Necropotence or Teferi, it gives the table a very DIRECT incentive to smash your face -- or face boatloads of Angels after a few turns. It is quite clear and unambiguous to the opponents that if you don't deal with Luminarch Ascension quickly, a legion of 4/4 Angels will eventually appear. It is also worth noting that there is almost no political utility for Luminarch Ascension in multiplayer games. At the very least, with Teferi, you can cast it out and convince your table that you're only doing it to stop, say, Jhoira from being broken or stopping certain degenerate combos.
Secondly -- and perhaps more importantly -- unlike Luminarch Ascension, cards like Necropotence and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir helps you do SOMETHING almost immediately when it is played (okay, you may have to wait for the beginning of your end step for Necropotence but at least you don't have to wait for FOUR turns).