[Official]
The Top 50 List (Indefinite Hiatus)
Poll: Which WHITE CREATURE should be removed from the list?
Ended Feb 16, 2019
Poll: Which BLACK CREATURES should be removed from the list? (Pick 4)
Ended Feb 16, 2019
Poll: Which GREEN NONCREATURE should be removed from the list?
Ended Feb 16, 2019
Poll: Which COLORLESS NONCREATURE should be removed from the list?
Ended Feb 16, 2019
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[Modern] Allies
Baral and Torrental Gearhulk were added, and we removed Diluvian Primordial and Thassa to make room for them. Thassa and Tidespout were tied to be cut, but because there was more support for removing Thassa in week 1, she got the ax, much to my personal disappointment.)
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Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
A card I really find undeserving of a spot on this list is Mystic Remora. The fact of the matter with this card is it'll typically net you 3 cards for 1 mana (or maybe up to 6 if you're lucky), but ONLY if you play it around turns 3-5. If you play it afterwards or before you usually only get 1 or 2 cards out of it, which is bad in a control deck that wants to be able to make big draws even late game as well. The other deck that would really want a big draw for cheap mana is speed combo. The problem with this card in speed combo is you don't get the cards right when you play it, which makes it WAY too slow for any truly tuned speed combo deck. I've played with this card in at least 200 games giving it so many chances trying to justify it and it has ONLY held up to be impressive in extremely casual games of EDH. Outside of casual, this card has been an utter disappointment which I think warrants voting off this list of "Top 50 list". It really just isn't one of the best of the best at the end game.
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There are definitely other worthy blue spells in my opinion: can the bar of Mystic Confluence, Mystic Remora, or Time Warp be cleared? It sure can.
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It's just a slow card since you don't get the card draw the turn you play it. If you play it late (turn 6 or later) against players who are good and have well tuned decks, they will have enough ramp to easily play around it and still play their spells or they'll just play something that puts them in a spot to close out the game or gives them way more value than the 1 card you drew from their spell. It's only great in casual EDH.
Bribery is in fact weaker than it used to be. In a lot of cases powerhouse cards like Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial have been banned. Homeward Path is also a thing and the more cheap disruption your opponents play the more you will be forced to take an ETB effect. Even with getting a little weaker because of bans in the last few years, its still probably worth about 7 mana for what it does so I would say its still a very strong card.
Dig Through Time - I cant disagree more. I think its worth about 6 mana as a spell assuming it did not have delve. It is an instant after all and its effect with selection is very strong. Keep in mind against graveyard hate that you can respond to it and they cannot respond to you delving. In a lot of ways it actually gets stronger when your opponents use grave hate because it means you can sac everything into it being cheap. Going even deeper, its tech against opponents utilizing reanimation on your own creatures as you can delve through your own graveyard say in response to a Necromancy targeting something in your graveyard.
Mystic Remora - I would argue that its a card thats actually much better the faster the meta is moving. In a lot of cases it gets less good when you start getting to the point where people have like 10+ lands in play. Its less likely to get swept in the early game and its hard to play through its effect if you have a fast mana hand. The catch to this card is that if people in your meta are just slow playing creatures then you can put it up early and then it sits there for like 5 turns drawing you like a card while keeping your mana on lockdown and letting opponents play their commanders and creatures through it no problem. Its a little similar to Rhystic Study in that it hits the hardest when played early but has some awkwardness in that it gets harder to keep around on its own accord. I think its a great card but honestly I think it depends a TON on what your meta is and looks like because where it might be literally the bees knees in one meta it might suck in another.
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[Modern] Allies
The following cards have received enough support to make it to week 2:
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Would you really pay 4 turns of Cumulative Upkeep to let it sit for 5?
On a note not directed at ISBPathfinder, this brings up another HUGE downfall to playing Mystic Remora before turn 3: It almost completely locks you out of your next turns after playing it for as long as you keep it in play, even in a highly competitive deck. If you play it turn 1, you might draw a card or two if you're lucky off of it until your next turn. Then, you have to pay 1 at the start of your turn 2 or settle for 2 cards. If you pay the 1 you now have 1 mana on turn 2, which puts you MASSIVELY behind in a truly fast meta. The same happens if you decide to keep it up on turn 3 afterwards, and the same basic scenario happens if you start the Remora in play on turn 2. If you're trying to combo off by turn 5 (which is a true tier 1 speed combo deck), you almost always need to have yourself set up by turn 3, or at least obtain the cards for your combo by then. So if you play Mystic Remore on turn 3, you're not getting your cards until turn 4 which can completely screw you staying on pace with your set up, AND you had to pay a precious mana that could've been spent on ramp/tutors/another draw spell that actually gets you what you need ON turn 3. And this is all not even considering if you're playing against swarm where this card becomes truly dead.
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[Modern] Allies
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As others mentioned, meta is everything. If you expect to play against spells, storm, artifacts, blue control, cascade, etc by all means this can be very valuable.
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My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Week 2 poll is up!
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Arahbo, Kitty Kat Beatdown Decklist
Mizzix of the Izmagnus Decklist
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Decklist
My Current Set Cube Lists:
Kamigawa Re-Experience
Ravnica, City of Guilds Re-Experience
Alara Re-Experience
What we would like to do for now is take a break until the next set releases. We dont know if this will improve anything but we had been discussing taking a break of some sort for this thread. Its possible that we consider some sort of system of bringing up voting twice a year and going through the list twice a year for changes. We are open to suggestions at this time if you would like to make some but we feel that having a continuous always active thread has in some ways burned some users out on the top 50 list. What we ultimately want is to be able to update this thread and to get community involvement when we do go to update it.
So.... our apologies for the delay. If you would like to discuss how we proceed we are open to ideas.
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[Modern] Allies
I'll refer to original question...
So RIGHT OFF THE BAT, I have to seriously question cards like:
...and etc, the list goes on, those are just the ones I caught first glance. Most of these cards are only truly strong if built around either a tribal or dedicated deck-- for example you're not gonna' just throw Goblin Matrons or Cataclysm in your 3 color or 5 color mostly "good stuff" decks that don't run the tribal or don't build around some Land Recursion theme, same goes for Laboratory Maniac too, these are cards that are powerful but require a dedicated theme or combo to maximize. Same goes for Scarecrone, amazing card in an artifact utilizing deck like Sydri, Galvanic Genius or Sharuum but you wouldn't just throw it in some GRW creature deck that only runs Duplicant/Solemn, it's too narrow.
To juxtapose against these, since I mentioned Goblin Matron-- Imerial Recruiter on the other had definitely belongs, because not only is its tutor ability powerful and works as a great sac outlet to skullclamp and enchantments and such, but its universally good. For example if you had a 3-color deck with red and had this creature you'd be almost hardpressed to not run it, it'd be a very very rare occurrence you wouldn't be able to tutor for clones, duplicants, Oracle of Muldaya, Kiki, or a million other ways it'd be useful-- Matron on the other hand ONLY gets goblins and clones, this is powerful but only in regard to dedicated tribal. Another comparison, Azami vs Mulldrifer--> I can toss Mulldrifter in just about any deck, even 4-5 colored decks and its just good, you couldn't say the same for Azami regardless how OP she is as a commander.
Again, I just have to question how some of these cards slid by this list. Dark Ritual is another that has no place, someone probably pointing out its utility in some Zur combo deck, this is a horrible card in most decks splashing black, I'd say it's close to the last card I'd ever want to draw in majority of decks with black.
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I think one of the things holding this Thread are these sorta "dedicated" OP cards that are only OP in specific decks, and the OVEREMPHASIS of card advantage and powerful sweeps clogging up the list. We need more Massacre Worm & Avenger of Zendikar and just good powerful cards on the list, and less Ancient Craving and Dark Confidant crap cards that are justified in "Well it's the BEST card advantage card in Mono Black so we CANT take it off the list, sorry". While I'll agree utility is important, and cards like Trinket Mage, Weathered Wayfarer, and Baleful Strix are almost too good to not include we gotta' make exceptions sometimes or pose limitations so the list isn't saturated with too much utility-- it'd almost be a good idea to separate the list from Support vs Power House cards, so I don't have to dictate on making a cut whether an Imperial Recruiter is more powerful than an Infernal Titan, or an Oracle of Muldaya is more powerful of a card than an Avenger of Zendikar. This is another problem that I found in making a top 50 list like this.
Cheers,
JARY
The point is kind of moot, since this is a dead thread, but yes, over time the voting for the list came to be dominated by a small subset of players whose preferred style of play heavily leans toward competitive/combo rather than more typical EDH.
Of the cards you specify above, I think a good argument can be made for Treasonous Ogre staying on the list. Sacrificing a bit of life to get a mana boost can help one stay ahead of land drops in terms of the what one is casting, and that can often be a good investment, especially if one gets it into play early. I would probably run it in a lot more decks if I had more copies.
Oh, and I think Ancient Craving is a solid card in any deck running black. Trading a little life for nicely-costed card draw is usually more than worth it.