I've seen more and more lists these days that run these types of cards. Small effects that net you one card, and replaces itself. Just doesn't seem to have a ton of synergy, and I wonder why they come up fairly frequently.
I find these cards to be pretty solid. 2 mana draw 2 is better than just about anything even blue gets. It's not amazing, but it's like getting turn 4 and 5 out of your turn 3 Phyrexian Arena for one less mana.
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Yea I find it is a fantastic way to smooth over your early draws. I prefer Whisper over SiB as it's much more friendly on my mana, but both are acceptable cards. if you want a third of this effect, I've become fond of Wild Guess as well.
Added Wild Guess to the OP. I'd like to hear more reasonings behind liking this card. Maybe I'm viewing it the wrong way, and while I can see 2 for 2 being pretty efficient, you're only replacing the card itself + 1 other. The effect just seems too minimal.
It just helps so much in the early game man. That's these kinds of cards' job. It makes sure you hit land drops to make it to the midgame. That's all I can really say about it. Think about it, you untap, play a land on t2, would you rather be staring at a Night's Whisper or a Tidings? One lets you progress your gameplan, one says "oh, gee, I can do jack-all this turn". I'm not saying cut all big, splashy plays for small ones, but there can be a lot ot be said for keeping a nice balance.
And Sign in Blood can kill someone who is at 2 life. Wouldn't think that'd be relevant... but it is sometimes.
Also activates the new Rakdos, at the cost of an opponent drawing two cards. Not really a big deal since my Rakdos deck likes to Wheel anyways.
On the usefulness of the cards, the bigger black draw spells like Promise of Power are great, but sometimes you're not going to have the mana for them.
Wild Guess can also set up Reanimation fodder - which is why Faithless Looting is in much the same boat. Just pointing that out in favor of the Red early game card drawers.
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Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper are pretty good cards but Wild Guess is definitely unplayable. Even in mono-red you can find better draw-effects. I would recommend artifact draw-effects and the red cantrips like Smash instead of Wild Guess.
Added Wild Guess to the OP. I'd like to hear more reasonings behind liking this card. Maybe I'm viewing it the wrong way, and while I can see 2 for 2 being pretty efficient, you're only replacing the card itself + 1 other. The effect just seems too minimal.
It isn't ever efficient. You have to spend two cards and you only get to draw two cards in return. It's just a waste of a card slot and a huge waste of mana if you ever cast it.
It isn't ever efficient. You have to spend two cards and you only get to draw two cards in return. It's just a waste of a card slot and a huge waste of mana if you ever cast it.
Of course it isn't "efficient". R doesn't get the quality draw that U does. But it is a form of virtual CA. Why do I care about an opening hand Staff of Nin? I can pitch that, and draw two cards that i can actually use. Card selection is definitely very relevant, and I'd rather live with a discarded Staff of Nin, than die while holding on to it still.
Of course it isn't "efficient". R doesn't get the quality draw that U does. But it is a form of virtual CA. Why do I care about an opening hand Staff of Nin? I can pitch that, and draw two cards that i can actually use. Card selection is definitely very relevant, and I'd rather live with a discarded Staff of Nin, than die while holding on to it still.
I never said that drawing cards is bad, just that Wild Guess is bad. There are very powerful colorless options available to red decks that provide much more card selection or card draw. I disagree with the premise that red-draw is bad in edh anyway; Wheel of Fortune effects are numerous and powerful.
Your hypothetical scenario is a bit pie-in-the-sky too. You could just as easily draw worse cards than you discarded, it isn't reasonable to evaluate card draw effects by assuming you will have an unwanted card in hand and that the cards you want are the next two on top.
edit: speaking of hypothetical situations, I think that it's important to acknowledge what a terrible topdeck Wild Guess is when you don't have a full hand. It's a card that can literally become unplayable and I don't think that risk is worth the potential payoff of cycling two cards in your hand during the early-game.
Night's Whisper/Sign in Blood don't have these problems. They give card advantage, they are completely consistent, and they are pretty useful spells to cast at almost any point in the game.
I never said that drawing cards is bad, just that Wild Guess is bad. There are very powerful colorless options available to red decks that provide much more card selection or card draw. I disagree with the premise that red-draw is bad in edh anyway; Wheel of Fortune effects are numerous and powerful.
Very powerful colourless options, but at what cost? 5, 6 mana? That's all well and good, but what about the early game when those aren't online?
Your hypothetical scenario is a bit pie-in-the-sky too. You could just as easily draw worse cards than you discarded, it isn't reasonable to evaluate card draw effects by assuming you will have an unwanted card in hand and that the cards you want are the next two on top.
Isn't this chance better than just sitting here with dead cards presently? Sure the cards might be dead on top, but you gotta dig through them sometime. And holding that opening and Steel Hellkite looks real poor when you're dying for that third or fourth land drop.
edit: speaking of hypothetical situations, I think that it's important to acknowledge what a terrible topdeck Wild Guess is when you don't have a full hand. It's a card that can literally become unplayable and I don't think that risk is worth the potential payoff of cycling two cards in your hand during the early-game.
There's a lot of weak top decks later in the game. Mox Diamond, Sol Ring, Bitterblossom (which is great on t2, and miserable on t7). On the flip side, what if you're "sand bagging" a land and rip Wild Guess? You tap two, and "cycle" two cards. Seems decent enough. Faithless Looting is similar but is still card disadvantage at it's core; WG is card parity (a +zero). Does that mean we shouldn't play any of these cards because they are weak later on? Of course not, that's asinine.
Night's Whisper/Sign in Blood don't have these problems. They give card advantage, they are completely consistent, and they are pretty useful spells to cast at almost any point in the game.
No one is saying it is better than these two. As a matter of fact, I would laugh if anyone did, because it clearly is not. But it is some additional redundancy in this effect. You can only run one Night's Whisper, so you have to find alternate cards that do this similar effect.
Very powerful colourless options, but at what cost? 5, 6 mana? That's all well and good, but what about the early game when those aren't online?
Isn't this chance better than just sitting here with dead cards presently? Sure the cards might be dead on top, but you gotta dig through them sometime. And holding that opening and Steel Hellkite looks real poor when you're dying for that third or fourth land drop.
There's a lot of weak top decks later in the game. Mox Diamond, Sol Ring, Bitterblossom (which is great on t2, and miserable on t7). On the flip side, what if you're "sand bagging" a land and rip Wild Guess? You tap two, and "cycle" two cards. Seems decent enough. Faithless Looting is similar but is still card disadvantage at it's core; WG is card parity (a +zero). Does that mean we shouldn't play any of these cards because they are weak later on? Of course not, that's asinine.
No one is saying it is better than these two. As a matter of fact, I would laugh if anyone did, because it clearly is not. But it is some additional redundancy in this effect. You can only run one Night's Whisper, so you have to find alternate cards that do this similar effect.
Responding in defense of Wild Guess and changing all of your text to Comic Sans has convinced me you're not being serious/genuine about this. Which is good because it'd be way worse if someone actually believed that card was worth playing instead of the myriad alternatives.
Good job, you had gotten me to give a polite and reasonable response. Consider me hoodwinked
When the only counter-argument you can offer someone is a criticism about their font choice, I think that's a pretty clear indication that you've surrendered the argument to the better man.
keep in mind that mono reds decks, those most likely to play wild guess, also tend to rely on self recurring cards for card advantage piching squee or shard phoenix to it is card advantage and id pitch a card i cant use now to hit land drops
now i have to go returne some casual decks that can use this lands dont like me
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I get into theoretical debates all the time about these cards, plus Ancestral Vision and a few others. The funny thing is that these debates rarely get anywhere. People keep running Promise of Power and Decree of Pain over these. If people are outdeveloped early and lose because of it, they will either blame their lack of land or complain that the players who beat them are using anti-social strategies.
It basically comes down to whether you're actually playing Magic, or whether you're just playing it in your head, where your deck always has enough mana to do what it wants and when you have a hand where 5cc is your lowest cost, the other players just lay down land and pass until you're ready to play. Lots and lots of people would rather just goldfish all day, really.
If it makes anyone feel better though, you can basically count each card you get from a 2cc or less immediate draw spell as 1/3 of a land, meaning that Whisper is 2/3 a land, and together with SiB that's 1.5 less land you need to run in your deck. And there are enough cheap tools like this in enough colors that most decks I see could afford to run several fewer land, while smoothing their mana curve.
How would you rate them in comparison to things like ancient craving or ambition's cost? Which would you rather run? Clearly the 2 cmc ones are oodles more efficient, but the others help dig deeper.
How would you rate them in comparison to things like ancient craving or ambition's cost? Which would you rather run? Clearly the 2 cmc ones are oodles more efficient, but the others help dig deeper.
Ancient Craving and Ambition's Cost are fine cards, but I typically default to the cheaper spells because they are useful in a wider variety of situations. I am happy to see Night's Whisper at all stages of the game, whereas Ambition's Cost can occasionally be clunky in an opening hand.
I don't think I have ever considered Wild Guess outside of mono-red or red-white. I guess it could have some uses in black-red, but I would probably choose Faithless Looting first.
As usual, d0su nails it; in general, 0-, 1- and 2- drop draw spells are for finessing your hand, while the bigger ones are for pure CA.
As an addendum to Justice's point earlier re: land shaving: Be careful when you run cantrips over lands. The more you do it, the more likely that you'll be forced to spend your first few turns playing cantrips, rather than having the option. Also, double color in the casting cost makes cantrips less useful for shaving land drops because they're more mana intensive. (If you've got the 12-inch mana base to make up for that, the effect's less pronounced, of course.)
For reference: Sign in Blood, Night's Whisper, Wild Guess
I've seen more and more lists these days that run these types of cards. Small effects that net you one card, and replaces itself. Just doesn't seem to have a ton of synergy, and I wonder why they come up fairly frequently.
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Also activates the new Rakdos, at the cost of an opponent drawing two cards. Not really a big deal since my Rakdos deck likes to Wheel anyways.
On the usefulness of the cards, the bigger black draw spells like Promise of Power are great, but sometimes you're not going to have the mana for them.
Also Ambition's Cost and Ancient Craving.
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How I know I should build a deck:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
It isn't ever efficient. You have to spend two cards and you only get to draw two cards in return. It's just a waste of a card slot and a huge waste of mana if you ever cast it.
Of course it isn't "efficient". R doesn't get the quality draw that U does. But it is a form of virtual CA. Why do I care about an opening hand Staff of Nin? I can pitch that, and draw two cards that i can actually use. Card selection is definitely very relevant, and I'd rather live with a discarded Staff of Nin, than die while holding on to it still.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I never said that drawing cards is bad, just that Wild Guess is bad. There are very powerful colorless options available to red decks that provide much more card selection or card draw. I disagree with the premise that red-draw is bad in edh anyway; Wheel of Fortune effects are numerous and powerful.
Your hypothetical scenario is a bit pie-in-the-sky too. You could just as easily draw worse cards than you discarded, it isn't reasonable to evaluate card draw effects by assuming you will have an unwanted card in hand and that the cards you want are the next two on top.
edit: speaking of hypothetical situations, I think that it's important to acknowledge what a terrible topdeck Wild Guess is when you don't have a full hand. It's a card that can literally become unplayable and I don't think that risk is worth the potential payoff of cycling two cards in your hand during the early-game.
Night's Whisper/Sign in Blood don't have these problems. They give card advantage, they are completely consistent, and they are pretty useful spells to cast at almost any point in the game.
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Very powerful colourless options, but at what cost? 5, 6 mana? That's all well and good, but what about the early game when those aren't online?
Isn't this chance better than just sitting here with dead cards presently? Sure the cards might be dead on top, but you gotta dig through them sometime. And holding that opening and Steel Hellkite looks real poor when you're dying for that third or fourth land drop.
There's a lot of weak top decks later in the game. Mox Diamond, Sol Ring, Bitterblossom (which is great on t2, and miserable on t7). On the flip side, what if you're "sand bagging" a land and rip Wild Guess? You tap two, and "cycle" two cards. Seems decent enough. Faithless Looting is similar but is still card disadvantage at it's core; WG is card parity (a +zero). Does that mean we shouldn't play any of these cards because they are weak later on? Of course not, that's asinine.
No one is saying it is better than these two. As a matter of fact, I would laugh if anyone did, because it clearly is not. But it is some additional redundancy in this effect. You can only run one Night's Whisper, so you have to find alternate cards that do this similar effect.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Responding in defense of Wild Guess and changing all of your text to Comic Sans has convinced me you're not being serious/genuine about this. Which is good because it'd be way worse if someone actually believed that card was worth playing instead of the myriad alternatives.
Good job, you had gotten me to give a polite and reasonable response. Consider me hoodwinked
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
now i have to go returne some casual decks that can use this lands dont like me
It basically comes down to whether you're actually playing Magic, or whether you're just playing it in your head, where your deck always has enough mana to do what it wants and when you have a hand where 5cc is your lowest cost, the other players just lay down land and pass until you're ready to play. Lots and lots of people would rather just goldfish all day, really.
If it makes anyone feel better though, you can basically count each card you get from a 2cc or less immediate draw spell as 1/3 of a land, meaning that Whisper is 2/3 a land, and together with SiB that's 1.5 less land you need to run in your deck. And there are enough cheap tools like this in enough colors that most decks I see could afford to run several fewer land, while smoothing their mana curve.
Ancient Craving and Ambition's Cost are fine cards, but I typically default to the cheaper spells because they are useful in a wider variety of situations. I am happy to see Night's Whisper at all stages of the game, whereas Ambition's Cost can occasionally be clunky in an opening hand.
I don't think I have ever considered Wild Guess outside of mono-red or red-white. I guess it could have some uses in black-red, but I would probably choose Faithless Looting first.
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As an addendum to Justice's point earlier re: land shaving: Be careful when you run cantrips over lands. The more you do it, the more likely that you'll be forced to spend your first few turns playing cantrips, rather than having the option. Also, double color in the casting cost makes cantrips less useful for shaving land drops because they're more mana intensive. (If you've got the 12-inch mana base to make up for that, the effect's less pronounced, of course.)