If the RC believe that Commander is truly a casual fomat, they would do this and let players regulate their own groups. However, the fact that we have an "official" ban list does suggest that the RC does not feel that Commander is soley a casual format. They just refuse to acknowledge this fact.
All games have their own rulings, why not we just treat the ban list as part of the rulings of the game EDH? If we play EDH just adhere to the rulings, why not just stop it at here and not argue about it? The RC have already highlighted that we can put up 'house rulings'/soft bans if we are not happy with the current ruling.
If one enjoys playing Monopoly with 3D6 rolls, go ahead. Other players still enjoy their original 2D6 roll game.
There is no doubt that certain cards should be added to the ban list. Please explain what Ad Nauseum adds to the format. Does anyone use Basalt Monolith for anything other than generating infinite mana? How about Mind Over Matter, not a card normally talked about, but when was the last time you saw it used in a fair manner? Weather the RC and casuals like it or not, EDH is becoming more competitive. It's time the RC started addressing this rather than trying to ignore it.
Just for the record - in my Adun Oakenshield eldrazi deck, I DO use Basalt Monolith without any way to make it infinite. When everything in your deck costs 9+ mana, you take all the mana ramp you can find, lol.
Also, can we stop saying "competitive" when we mean "tuned"? I can't speak for everyone, but I'm just as competitive in trying to win with my janky Adun Oakenshield ETB deck and my sphinx tribal deck as I am with my Sen Triplets dedicated Time Sieve deck.
If the RC believe that Commander is truly a casual fomat, they would do this and let players regulate their own groups. However, the fact that we have an "official" ban list does suggest that the RC does not feel that Commander is soley a casual format. They just refuse to acknowledge this fact.
Facts and opininos are different, it makes a better discussion when you acknowlege the difference. A fact is we have an 'offical' ban list. That the RC does not feel it is 'truly a casual format' is an opinion.
What if I go to a Commander pod at SCG Atlanta next April and I tell people "well, I have banned cards in my deck because my playgroup has house rules"?
Do you seriously think that will go well with people?
Of course not. But thats not a real question now is it? You cant expect everyone to conform to your house rules, thats why there is a base list. I totally agree the baselist does not work well for people who run tournaments. That does not mean its bad for the format. It means tournaments need a different ban list.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
All games have their own rulings, why not we just treat the ban list as part of the rulings of the game EDH? If we play EDH just adhere to the rulings, why not just stop it at here and not argue about it? The RC have already highlighted that we can put up 'house rulings'/soft bans if we are not happy with the current ruling.
If one enjoys playing Monopoly with 3D6 rolls, go ahead. Other players still enjoy their original 2D6 roll game.
So if I show up at your LGS and sit at your table, you're cool with my time walk - grisslebrand deck ? fueled with Black Lotus and 5 moxes ?
All games have their own rulings, why not we just treat the ban list as part of the rulings of the game EDH? If we play EDH just adhere to the rulings, why not just stop it at here and not argue about it? The RC have already highlighted that we can put up 'house rulings'/soft bans if we are not happy with the current ruling.
If one enjoys playing Monopoly with 3D6 rolls, go ahead. Other players still enjoy their original 2D6 roll game.
I'm all for adhering to the current rules. But when I combo kill someone on turn 3 by adhereing to these rules, I don't want to hear any complaining. The RC allow this to exist. If I am playing by the rules set out by them, then no one should have a problem.
I'm all for adhering to the current rules. But when I combo kill someone on turn 3 by adhereing to these rules, I don't want to hear any complaining. The RC allow this to exist. If I am playing by the rules set out by them, then no one should have a problem.
One ofthe rules is also to play like you want others to have fun. Some people like trying to combat that sort of deck, others don't. But when you nuke a table of battlecruiser people it only makes you look bad, not the format.
There is NO reason you cant have a 1 min discussion about what you and others want from a game and make that happen. You just want to run over peopel to make a point? You will make the wrong one.
I never said anything different. I don't think the EDH ban list should be affected by this NEW list that someone creates. EDH is in a great place, this should not change it.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
So if I show up at your LGS and sit at your table, you're cool with my time walk - grisslebrand deck ? fueled with Black Lotus and 5 moxes ?
of course not.
^nathed.
This is the problem. RC have already determined a ban list for all these cards.
And yes if I do agree to go with the same house rules of anything goes without any ban list, I have only myself to blame as my deck is not powerful enough or doesn't run enough answers like Chalice@0 and Null Rods.
I'm all for adhering to the current rules. But when I combo kill someone on turn 3 by adhereing to these rules, I don't want to hear any complaining. The RC allow this to exist. If I am playing by the rules set out by them, then no one should have a problem.
Either you're being snarky to prove a point, or you're the type of jerk that EDH was never meant for. Not saying this 'cause there's anything wrong with strong combo decks, like I say, people need to be ready for that stuff, but because you're taking an attitude of "I don't care how people around me feel when we play." Quite frankly I wouldn't want to play EDH with a player like that regardless of the power-level of their deck.
...not only is the total number of players expanding very quickly, but at the same time a greater and greater number of those players are being pushed to only desire a small subset of the available cards. These combined forces drastically increase demand for those cards and cause the values of just those specific cards to often balloon out of proportion.
I never said anything different. I don't think the EDH ban list should be affected by this NEW list that someone creates. EDH is in a great place, this should not change it.
It goes back to everyone make your own house rules. Until WOTC takes control of the format and actually revampts the ban list with cards that should be on it, things will not change. Why is it so hard to see that a revamped ban list would actually make the format better for casuals? Do you like getting wipped out on turn 3 by Ad Nauseum? How about a Tooth and Nail for Mike/Trike? Don't you see that if the ban list was revamped and tooled for competitive play, that casual play would improve too? I'm not talking about banning 100+ cards. I realize that combo can never be truly eliminated. However, there are a handful of cards that could be added that would shake up EDH, encourage new deck building, and improve the health of the format overall.
The bold area is pretty much my line of thinking. A slightly more restrictive list would make the format more healthy in general. The RC has done a great job with the list as is and many main offenders are there already as well as cards that inherently don't work in the format.
There are a number of 'problem' cards that allow wins entirely too fast that still exist though that should see a hit. In a format about 'fun' and 'memorable games', someone dropping an infinite combo turn 3 or 4 or even 5 doesn't play to that philosophy. My casual group basically had to unofficially house ban during our initial 'arms race' as we improved our decks since things like turn 5 ghave combo out where basically taking the fun out of it.
In addition to the current rules philosophy, I'd like to see a turn rule similar to how modern has defined where no deck should win faster than X turns and ban as few cards as possible to move the minimum turns up.
I'm all for adhering to the current rules. But when I combo kill someone on turn 3 by adhereing to these rules, I don't want to hear any complaining. The RC allow this to exist. If I am playing by the rules set out by them, then no one should have a problem.
There will sure be whiners/people who complain. This is part and parcel of life. It is just up to the person who complain not to take it too hard and the person on the receiving end dismiss the nagging as mere noise that compliments his deck.
It is just a game for goodness sake, not the end of the world. Win humbly and lose gracefully.
Either you're being snarky to prove a point, or you're the type of jerk that EDH was never meant for. Not saying this 'cause there's anything wrong with strong combo decks, like I say, people need to be ready for that stuff, but because you're taking an attitude of "I don't care how people around me feel when we play." Quite frankly I wouldn't want to play EDH with a player like that regardless of the power-level of their deck.
First, Yes I am trying to prove a point. Second, I have several EDH decks of all types. Now, I will present you with 2 situations. First, a combo EDH deck kills the table on turn 3 using Ad Nauseum. Nobody's happy about it, and the player is thought to be a jerk for doing it. Second, a player playing a tribal gobiln deck manages to get 20 goblin tokens on the board, he attacks and casts Tears of Rage, making his attack well over 400 pts of damage and kills everyone. Is the goblin player a jerk also? Is either of these plays what EDH is about?
No. Someone should take up the mantle for 'Competitive Commander' and run it like the people run 'Duel Commander'. Have a seperate website and a sub-forum here and go to it.
Don't ask the RC to change everything for you. Your complaint on pg 1 was they ned to pick a direction: Competitive v Casual. Thats a false choice, but for sake of the point they picked YEARS ago. They cater to the social group and have a ban list to help new groups start.
You only present 'hardcore list' or 'no list' as the choices. Thats just a bad idea.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
One of these threads again, huh? My general understanding of EDH was to treat each meta case-by-case. If you are coming into a group, you're the outsider and it's your job to adhere to what that group does, regardless of what it is. For example, I'm looking to get into a new group that doesn't like infinite combos. That's fine, that's the social contract that they agreed upon and the burden is now on me to not play Azami and not play combo, out of respect for the established group.
This talk about splitting up the format is ridiculous, and honestly, I'm not sure if it would survive the transition or go the way of irrelevancy (like Extended.) Why does it always have to break down into a grudge match between "competitive" and "casual?" Can't we all just agree that different groups like different things and move the **** on?
For the record, no, I haven't sifted through all nine pages of this thread, because, honestly, I don't have the time or the patience, but I have read at least the last 3, so I can reasonably infer where this thread has headed.
There are a number of 'problem' cards that allow wins entirely too fast that still exist though that should see a hit. In a format about 'fun' and 'memorable games', someone dropping an infinite combo turn 3 or 4 or even 5 doesn't play to that philosophy. My casual group basically had to unofficially house ban during our initial 'arms race' as we improved our decks since things like turn 5 ghave combo out where basically taking the fun out of it.
I really like my meta. The playgroup usually have answers for almost everything that a player dish out. Very seldom we will see Sharuum/Ghave combo players combo out within the 1st 6-7 turns as everyone seems to pack answers to thwart all these sort of play.
First, Yes I am trying to prove a point. Second, I have several EDH decks of all types. Now, I will present you with 2 situations. First, a combo EDH deck kills the table on turn 3 using Ad Nauseum. Nobody's happy about it, and the player is thought to be a jerk for doing it.
That is a PLAYER issue. Some people do like to play highly tuned decks against each other. And some people use AN to draw somw cards in exchange for life. It gets banned because people play it like douche nozzels? No thanks
Second, a player playing a tribal gobiln deck manages to get 20 goblin tokens on the board, he attacks and casts Tears of Rage, making his attack well over 400 pts of damage and kills everyone. Is the goblin player a jerk also? Is either of these plays what EDH is about?
Again thats for your group to decide. I dont care for 1, I am fine with 2. That does not mean its the right choice for everyone.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I like the "pull your own bootstraps and make your own format" rhetoric. That's a little hard to do when the biggest, most popular, and only widely-played casual format enjoys product support, customized design, and special treatment.
Do you know how long EDH was around before WotC recognized the format? Before there was rules support, products, and card design for it? Special treatment?
Years. Years of work, promotion, word of mouth advancement. YEARS, without any expectation of recognition (like every other casual format before it).
And what do you want, Ral? You want to swoop in, and make the format yours, without ever having put in the work to get it this far. You just want it to be the way you want, with all the 'special treatment' that comes with it. Why build your own house when you can just squat in someone else's, right? Except that there are still people living in that house.
EDH is not a technically robust format. There is broken stuff EVERYWHERE. If you think that this is just the RC being blind, or not paying attention, or just plain doesn't understand what a balanced format looks like (i.e. the RC is a monumental failure because Crypt/Ring/Vault is still legal), you don't even know what this format was conceived to be.
Do you really think Sheldon and the rest of the RC got the format this far by flopping around, and saying Sol Ring is totally balanced? That they just don't know that a first turn Mana Crypt is beyond ridiculous? Can advocates of technically robust competitive ban lists really say with a straight face and full intellectual honesty that the RC is monumentally incompetent, instead of the blatantly obvious fact that the format is intended to be something other than competitive play?
I just think P titan getting banned was unfair..He was banned because he was in alot of decks? Doesn't that just mean hes a good card?
You clearly did not read the reason he was banned. If you need a link it is in the announcement and on the main mtgcommander.net webiste. Please read it again, that was not the reason.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
No. Someone should take up the mantle for 'Competitive Commander' and run it like the people run 'Duel Commander'. Have a seperate website and a sub-forum here and go to it.
Don't ask the RC to change everything for you. Your complaint on pg 1 was they ned to pick a direction: Competitive v Casual. Thats a false choice, but for sake of the point they picked YEARS ago. They cater to the social group and have a ban list to help new groups start.
You only present 'hardcore list' or 'no list' as the choices. Thats just a bad idea.
I agree with this (sadly) because its the exact truth (sadly). I understand 100% the RC's position, but its the equivalent of a kid putting his fingers in his ears and saying "NANANNAN". This "vocal minority" is looking to engage the RC with real discussion about the competetive side of EDH and its just "NANANANANANANA"
<When everyone who thinks there's an issue stops blowing themselves (there's always so much self-fellating going on these threads you practically have to wear galoshes) goes and collectively jumps of a cliff. Really. Seriously. Talk to the people you play with and try and accomplish something if you got issues with the gameplay, otherwise you're just dweebs harping across the electrons, supposedly advocating "change" but REALLY saying "Whaaaa! I deserve to be rules committee! look my massive opinion brain! I think I think smart! Pay heed compliment intranetz! Moist towel! Moist towel!">
Infraction for Flaming, Trolling, Spam, and generally Inappropriate Content. -bobthefunny
At this point, all I am asking for is a ban on cards that can win on the spot. Ad Nauseum, Tooth and Nail, Hermit Druid, Mind Over Matter, and Kiki Jiki. The format would not miss any of these. Yes, they can be used fair, I'm sure that there are those who do use them fairly, but more often than not, they lead to an instant win for the player who resolves them. Would this kill casual play? No. Would it help to balance competitve play? Possibly.
If you aren't, that sucks. It might not be your fault, though. Talk to your playgroup, change things up, or find other people who have fun the same way you do. When your primary goal is to have fun, it's easier to actually do it. If everyone at the table has that goal, then the game will almost certainly be fun, no matter what the banlist looks like.
If the problem is tournaments, stop entering them. I wish they worked (I really, really do), but they don't and never will. Multiplayer FFA tournaments cannot be balanced. Stop trying to fix the unfixable, relax, and play some fun games with friends.
Lots of people have fun playing EDH. It's a shame if you don't, but that isn't the format's (or even the banlist's) fault.
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All games have their own rulings, why not we just treat the ban list as part of the rulings of the game EDH? If we play EDH just adhere to the rulings, why not just stop it at here and not argue about it? The RC have already highlighted that we can put up 'house rulings'/soft bans if we are not happy with the current ruling.
If one enjoys playing Monopoly with 3D6 rolls, go ahead. Other players still enjoy their original 2D6 roll game.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
Just for the record - in my Adun Oakenshield eldrazi deck, I DO use Basalt Monolith without any way to make it infinite. When everything in your deck costs 9+ mana, you take all the mana ramp you can find, lol.
Also, can we stop saying "competitive" when we mean "tuned"? I can't speak for everyone, but I'm just as competitive in trying to win with my janky Adun Oakenshield ETB deck and my sphinx tribal deck as I am with my Sen Triplets dedicated Time Sieve deck.
Of course not. But thats not a real question now is it? You cant expect everyone to conform to your house rules, thats why there is a base list. I totally agree the baselist does not work well for people who run tournaments. That does not mean its bad for the format. It means tournaments need a different ban list.
So if I show up at your LGS and sit at your table, you're cool with my time walk - grisslebrand deck ? fueled with Black Lotus and 5 moxes ?
of course not.
EDIT: ^nathed.
I'm all for adhering to the current rules. But when I combo kill someone on turn 3 by adhereing to these rules, I don't want to hear any complaining. The RC allow this to exist. If I am playing by the rules set out by them, then no one should have a problem.
I'm glad you finally see it my way.
One ofthe rules is also to play like you want others to have fun. Some people like trying to combat that sort of deck, others don't. But when you nuke a table of battlecruiser people it only makes you look bad, not the format.
There is NO reason you cant have a 1 min discussion about what you and others want from a game and make that happen. You just want to run over peopel to make a point? You will make the wrong one.
I never said anything different. I don't think the EDH ban list should be affected by this NEW list that someone creates. EDH is in a great place, this should not change it.
This is the problem. RC have already determined a ban list for all these cards.
And yes if I do agree to go with the same house rules of anything goes without any ban list, I have only myself to blame as my deck is not powerful enough or doesn't run enough answers like Chalice@0 and Null Rods.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
Either you're being snarky to prove a point, or you're the type of jerk that EDH was never meant for. Not saying this 'cause there's anything wrong with strong combo decks, like I say, people need to be ready for that stuff, but because you're taking an attitude of "I don't care how people around me feel when we play." Quite frankly I wouldn't want to play EDH with a player like that regardless of the power-level of their deck.
So... you agree we should split the format.
The bold area is pretty much my line of thinking. A slightly more restrictive list would make the format more healthy in general. The RC has done a great job with the list as is and many main offenders are there already as well as cards that inherently don't work in the format.
There are a number of 'problem' cards that allow wins entirely too fast that still exist though that should see a hit. In a format about 'fun' and 'memorable games', someone dropping an infinite combo turn 3 or 4 or even 5 doesn't play to that philosophy. My casual group basically had to unofficially house ban during our initial 'arms race' as we improved our decks since things like turn 5 ghave combo out where basically taking the fun out of it.
In addition to the current rules philosophy, I'd like to see a turn rule similar to how modern has defined where no deck should win faster than X turns and ban as few cards as possible to move the minimum turns up.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Although I'm not sure it would have made a difference, but if you reworded your post to
"What would it take to incorporate a competetive banned list for a tournament structure" we might have got a different response.
As it is now, the sheep come out in droves to defend their holy casual-format (even though it has huge tournament support already).
headinsand.jpg
There will sure be whiners/people who complain. This is part and parcel of life. It is just up to the person who complain not to take it too hard and the person on the receiving end dismiss the nagging as mere noise that compliments his deck.
It is just a game for goodness sake, not the end of the world. Win humbly and lose gracefully.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
First, Yes I am trying to prove a point. Second, I have several EDH decks of all types. Now, I will present you with 2 situations. First, a combo EDH deck kills the table on turn 3 using Ad Nauseum. Nobody's happy about it, and the player is thought to be a jerk for doing it. Second, a player playing a tribal gobiln deck manages to get 20 goblin tokens on the board, he attacks and casts Tears of Rage, making his attack well over 400 pts of damage and kills everyone. Is the goblin player a jerk also? Is either of these plays what EDH is about?
Don't ask the RC to change everything for you. Your complaint on pg 1 was they ned to pick a direction: Competitive v Casual. Thats a false choice, but for sake of the point they picked YEARS ago. They cater to the social group and have a ban list to help new groups start.
You only present 'hardcore list' or 'no list' as the choices. Thats just a bad idea.
This talk about splitting up the format is ridiculous, and honestly, I'm not sure if it would survive the transition or go the way of irrelevancy (like Extended.) Why does it always have to break down into a grudge match between "competitive" and "casual?" Can't we all just agree that different groups like different things and move the **** on?
For the record, no, I haven't sifted through all nine pages of this thread, because, honestly, I don't have the time or the patience, but I have read at least the last 3, so I can reasonably infer where this thread has headed.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
I really like my meta. The playgroup usually have answers for almost everything that a player dish out. Very seldom we will see Sharuum/Ghave combo players combo out within the 1st 6-7 turns as everyone seems to pack answers to thwart all these sort of play.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
1. Competetive players want a ban list that reflects a technically robust format, and they want the RC to change it to suit their needs.
2. There are a lot of people who play casually/socially who are getting wrecked by competitive players.
3. Rather than start their own format, this is the prevailing attitude:
Do you know how long EDH was around before WotC recognized the format? Before there was rules support, products, and card design for it? Special treatment?
Years. Years of work, promotion, word of mouth advancement. YEARS, without any expectation of recognition (like every other casual format before it).
And what do you want, Ral? You want to swoop in, and make the format yours, without ever having put in the work to get it this far. You just want it to be the way you want, with all the 'special treatment' that comes with it. Why build your own house when you can just squat in someone else's, right? Except that there are still people living in that house.
EDH is not a technically robust format. There is broken stuff EVERYWHERE. If you think that this is just the RC being blind, or not paying attention, or just plain doesn't understand what a balanced format looks like (i.e. the RC is a monumental failure because Crypt/Ring/Vault is still legal), you don't even know what this format was conceived to be.
Do you really think Sheldon and the rest of the RC got the format this far by flopping around, and saying Sol Ring is totally balanced? That they just don't know that a first turn Mana Crypt is beyond ridiculous? Can advocates of technically robust competitive ban lists really say with a straight face and full intellectual honesty that the RC is monumentally incompetent, instead of the blatantly obvious fact that the format is intended to be something other than competitive play?
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
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UAzami, Lady of Scrolls
BMaralen of the Mornsong
RDiaochan, Artful Beauty
Pauper
R">Candra's Spitfire
You clearly did not read the reason he was banned. If you need a link it is in the announcement and on the main mtgcommander.net webiste. Please read it again, that was not the reason.
I agree with this (sadly) because its the exact truth (sadly). I understand 100% the RC's position, but its the equivalent of a kid putting his fingers in his ears and saying "NANANNAN". This "vocal minority" is looking to engage the RC with real discussion about the competetive side of EDH and its just "NANANANANANANA"
Infraction for Flaming, Trolling, Spam, and generally Inappropriate Content. -bobthefunny
If you aren't, that sucks. It might not be your fault, though. Talk to your playgroup, change things up, or find other people who have fun the same way you do. When your primary goal is to have fun, it's easier to actually do it. If everyone at the table has that goal, then the game will almost certainly be fun, no matter what the banlist looks like.
If the problem is tournaments, stop entering them. I wish they worked (I really, really do), but they don't and never will. Multiplayer FFA tournaments cannot be balanced. Stop trying to fix the unfixable, relax, and play some fun games with friends.
Lots of people have fun playing EDH. It's a shame if you don't, but that isn't the format's (or even the banlist's) fault.