I have no issues with terastodon being used against me. I recall one multiplayer game where the person destroyed 3 of my permanents and I spent the rest of the game targeting his stuff and making the trumpet sounds of wailing elephants as I attacked him with them every turn. I don't remember who won that game, nor do I care, but I remember how fun it was to beat him down with the herd he gave me.
I feel that this game is about having fun and if you feel a certain card is really powerful you don't need to pull up a diaper and make a houserule against using it, just adjust your decks to deal with it.
personally I would support such a ban. Most people would disagree, but:
Terastodon is just one of a plethora of cards that leads to incredibly degenerate game states.
Most games I play where someone lands Tbags on the table end up like this
Me: Bribery your Tbags, kill 3 of your lands
Player 2: Phantasmal Image Tbags, 3 of YOUR lands
Player 3: Phyrexian metamorph Tbags, whatever lands are left
Player 4: kill Phantasmal Image, Reanimate it, make a Tbags, kill 3 more lands
Everyone: ELEPHANT FIGHT!
I'm not sure how a four player game where two or three people have three or six 3/3 Elephants is "degenerate" because the fourth player has three lands more than them? Plow Under sets a player back two land drops and two draws and is four mana less. Woodfall Primus does 2/3rds of a Terastodon without the potential drawback. Acidic Slime is just as abuseable.
I've seen way more degenerate **** in the current Standard season, let alone some ridiculous EDH games.
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This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
So essentially, everyone set each other back 3 lands...how is this degenerate at all?
It's not, it's just a buzz word people like to use when they want to ban something. Here's one thing I don't get. So what if you destroy someone's board with giga elephant..... you gave them a army.....
The point of the giga elephant is to get a beat stick and take out 3 problem permanents with the draw back of giving them a creature. In otherwords, that thing you just nuked better have been scarier than a 3/3.
Tidespout tyrant is arguably more miserable to play against. On a bad day it turns everything into a bounce spell and on a good day it bounces the board.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
Terastodon isn't good enough to make the cut in 90% of lists splashing green. It's not a problem card. At a large table playing a Terastodon will barely raise an eyebrow
I feel that this game is about having fun and if you feel a certain card is really powerful you don't need to pull up a diaper and make a houserule against using it, just adjust your decks to deal with it.
EVERY card has answers, so you would prefer a game with no list? I am guessing you prefer a list that is small but removes the worst offenders from play.
I am not saying I would support a Tbags(love this new nickname) ban, but each group should be able to decide what is fun for it. Calling people babies because they want to adjust the list is just elitist junk. One persons definition of fun is no more valid than anyone else, thats why you vote.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
EVERY card has answers, so you would prefer a game with no list? I am guessing you prefer a list that is small but removes the worst offenders from play.
I am not saying I would support a Tbags(love this new nickname) ban, but each group should be able to decide what is fun for it. Calling people babies because they want to adjust the list is just elitist junk. One persons definition of fun is no more valid than anyone else, thats why you vote.
Except in the OP Terrastadon is only really being hated by one vocal player. From what we can gather that person is indeed being a baby and should be called out for it. Catering to controlling people like that just lets them think they can get away with banning cards they don't like for little other reason. It is far better as a whole to teach them to play magic better. Bans based on "I'm bad at magic" is not how it should work.
I seriously have difficulty comprehending how anyone who enjoys EDH can also argue something like Terastadon is too powerful or banworthy.
Yes, it is a pretty good card. At its mana cost, it darn well better be a pretty good card. But as some others have posted, there are other cards that cost the same, or even a bit less, that are even better.
Terastadon seems to me to be one of the types of cards EDH is about. Big, flashy plays with big expensive spells.
Plus, like at least one other poster above, I've seen it do some simply hilarious stuff. I'd be surprised if anyone playing in this format for more than a few months doesn't have at least one or two funny stories about someone playing Terastadon.
Hi folks. One very vocal member of my local playgroup is determined to ban Terastodon. His contends that in many multiplayer games it gets ramped out quickly then reanimated again and again. My argument against is that there are many other creatures that are better, but not banned. He makes a couple good points, it is an ETB trigger, not dependent on lasting turns like Consecrated Sphinx. Iona does not affect the existing board. Jin-Gitaxias has to last at least one phase to matter.
He refuses to play the card anymore, and tried to force all of us to stop as well. I told him he cannot make up the rules for all of us to follow, and the best we could do for him is put it up to a vote prior to our next tournament (non sanctioned). He agreed, then decided his best method of getting the rule change through would be to build Momir Vig, Simic Visionary and abuse Terastodon replay.
One last note, is this really any better/different than Stax or land D?
thanks I need some argument points against a very stubborn bullheaded player!
I've always thought Terastodon was one of the best-balanced removal spells they've printed recently. Like others have said, I almost never hit lands unless they're problematic. If someone uses it in a ****ty way, blame the playstyle, not the card.
On another hand, if its use is widespread, I can understand if he's just tired of seeing it.
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here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
Except in the OP Terrastadon is only really being hated by one vocal player. From what we can gather that person is indeed being a baby and should be called out for it. Catering to controlling people like that just lets them think they can get away with banning cards they don't like for little other reason. It is far better as a whole to teach them to play magic better. Bans based on "I'm bad at magic" is not how it should work.
"I told him he cannot make up the rules for all of us to follow, and the best we could do for him is put it up to a vote prior to our next tournament (non sanctioned). He agreed..." from the OP. Reading is tech.
He made a case and is getting a vote. I know you think choice is bad, but most people playing EDH would disagree. We only have one side of the story, I am sure its unbiased...
Again calling someone a baby for getting a vote on a card they think is unfun is elitist junk.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
EVERY card has answers, so you would prefer a game with no list? I am guessing you prefer a list that is small but removes the worst offenders from play.
I propose following the rules of EDH, including the banlist.
He refuses to play the card anymore, and tried to force all of us to stop as well.
Thats a childish response. And it can lead to the slippery slope of additional houserules, increasing banlists, and sour feelings when your opponents play good cards.
My circle of friends follow the rules. I'm happy to obey any houserule that everyone agrees to, and I'm happy to play without any houserules at all. If you'd like to call that elitist, feel free.
I propose following the rules of EDH, including the banlist.
The rules say make a banlist that your group agrees on. There is a base ban list for groups to start from. Adding or subtracting from the list is encouraged.
I wouldn't call someone a baby for asking for a vote. But acting like this is a different story...
Thats a childish response. And it can lead to the slippery slope of additional houserules, increasing banlists, and sour feelings when your opponents play good cards.
I guess I misread your previous post, it looked like you said adjust your deck, dont ask for a change to the ban list. We do not have both sides, I am guessing the OP is skewed to his perception.
My circle of friends follow the rules. I'm happy to obey any houserule that everyone agrees to, and I'm happy to play without any houserules at all. If you'd like to call that elitist, feel free.
Thats a GROSS misrepresentation of what I said. I said it was elitist to call someone down for getting a vote on a card they found unfun. The rules say adjust everything for fun of parties involved.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I said it was elitist to call someone down for getting a vote on a card they found unfun. The rules say adjust everything for fun of parties involved.
Fair enough.
I felt his initial reaction was childish, and that agreeing to the vote was mature. In fact, creating a deck to abuse the card to help demonstrate why he thinks the card should be banned is a smart way of going about it. I bet you and I might agree on all that too.
I wonder if he'll start appreciating the card in his momir vig deck and change his mind about banning it after it works in his favor.
I felt his initial reaction was childish, and that agreeing to the vote was mature. In fact, creating a deck to abuse the card to help demonstrate why he thinks the card should be banned is a smart way of going about it. I bet you and I might agree on all that too.
I wonder if he'll start appreciating the card in his momir vig deck and change his mind about banning it after it works in his favor.
I agree with everything you said here. Hopefully he will, but it is possible lots of people in the group just abuse the crap out of it and it got old. That would probably persuade me to have a polite, mature, discussion with the group.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
He cost like 8 mana, of course he's going to be good. Doesn't make him OP. For 8 mana you know what else you could do?
Get 13 2/2s (26 power)
Get an 8/8 with flying and vigilance that makes all your permanents indestructible
Win the game if you control a basic land of each type
Destroy all creatures and draw a card for each creature that died
Get Griselbrand
Untap all creatures and gain control of them until end of turn. They gain haste until end of turn.
Get a 7/5 with Creatures you control have haste. and Cascade, cascade
Myojin of Night's Reach
Nicol Bolas Planeswalker
Destroy all creatures target opponent controls. Draw a card for each creature destroyed this way.
Return all cards from your graveyard to your hand. And have no maximum hand size for the rest of the game.
Scorned Egotist
Vorinclex
Woodfall Primus
How is he soo strong that he is better than more than one of those.
He wasn't running t-don. He just stole it, cloned it. and when he no longer could keep control RFGed it.
In Magic, there are very few things most players consider "sacrosanct" in a game...but lands are one of them. Player like casting spells and using card abilities, and LD disrupts that plan at the core.
My playgroup at my LGS at one point had...4? players who ran Terastadon in their deck (myself included). Some games ended up very un-fun, and other games it was a fair trivindicate. The problem arises when the person constantly uses him to blow up lands, and constantly ramps into him every game, even when its not the best creature to tutor up. Sometimes 3 people have lightning greaves out, and you can destroy all 3 turn 6.
If a player doesn't like T-don (and isnt even using him?) then tell him its his choice, and leave it at that. If the guy starts to use him as LD every single time, just throw it back at him 10x worse. There are plenty of clones and reanimate cards to tell the guy to shut up.
You could also make a gentlemen's agreement not to blow up lands that don't have abilities beyond mana ones.
personally I would support such a ban. Most people would disagree, but:
Terastodon is just one of a plethora of cards that leads to incredibly degenerate game states.
Most games I play where someone lands Tbags on the table end up like this
Me: Bribery your Tbags, kill 3 of your lands
Player 2: Phantasmal Image Tbags, 3 of YOUR lands
Player 3: Phyrexian metamorph Tbags, whatever lands are left
Player 4: kill Phantasmal Image, Reanimate it, make a Tbags, kill 3 more lands
Everyone: ELEPHANT FIGHT!
No offense, but your playgroup is kinda dumb to JUST attack the lands. Lands typically aren't the highest profile targets, especially since "Tbags" gets tutored quite often as a solution to a problem. Special lands like Ith, Cabal, etc., might be good targets, but you want to get rid of as many bad enchantments and artifacts as possible with your 3 picks. He's typically a mid to late gamer, anyway, so there will be plenty of non-lands to choose from, and basic land destruction isn't all that useful unless you are killing everything.
Also, an elephant fight is awesome. That sounds like a green version of Dovescape.
(What the hell did you RL MTG players do to Portal? Did you hate it so much that you had deck burning bonfires to get rid of the cards, thus increasing the rarity and prices? Did people mail back their fat packs to WotC in droves, demanding refunds?)
The thing about terastodon is, you don't have to be a jerk when you play him. There is nothing wrong with using him to destroy legitimate threats. Sure you could bribery-copy ect and set a few players back a few turns, but is that really going to win you the game? It doesn't really seem like the best possible play with those cards. Also I agree with wildfire; Woodfall Primus is way better.
personally I would support such a ban. Most people would disagree, but:
Terastodon is just one of a plethora of cards that leads to incredibly degenerate game states.
Most games I play where someone lands Tbags on the table end up like this
Me: Bribery your Tbags, kill 3 of your lands
Player 2: Phantasmal Image Tbags, 3 of YOUR lands
Player 3: Phyrexian metamorph Tbags, whatever lands are left
Player 4: kill Phantasmal Image, Reanimate it, make a Tbags, kill 3 more lands
Everyone: ELEPHANT FIGHT!
That's a ton of cards from everyone to just set everyone back 3 lands....
Why even do this assuming you weren't just being a jerk for the hell of it, how does this progress the game or help your board position??
Why not just cast Armageddon and be done with it??
personally I would support such a ban. Most people would disagree, but:
Terastodon is just one of a plethora of cards that leads to incredibly degenerate game states.
Most games I play where someone lands Tbags on the table end up like this
Me: Bribery your Tbags, kill 3 of your lands
Player 2: Phantasmal Image Tbags, 3 of YOUR lands
Player 3: Phyrexian metamorph Tbags, whatever lands are left
Player 4: kill Phantasmal Image, Reanimate it, make a Tbags, kill 3 more lands
I've seen this happen by me doing all the actions followed by maelstrom pulse of elephants. Then 3 terastodons stomping my opponents!
But the most db move was reanimating turn 4 Sundering Titan and imaging it then sacing it.
Oh, I'm not saying that situation isn't likely. I've seen similar things happen all the time.
It's the tone and the "this card is overpowered" bit that I assume was sarcastic. There are so, so many better and more powerful cards in the format right now.
I would not be in favor of such a ban, ever. I think that the coolest thing about any format are the cards that people end up building around because they know that it could totally wreck them. Now it's not cool when somebody bases their entire deck around that card, but I've found that in most formats when something that seems OP is left to its devices then somebody normally finds a way to hate it out, like pithing needle. I mean people have even found ways to deal with commanders they don't like with tuck effects.
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I've found that in most formats when something that seems OP is left to its devices then somebody normally finds a way to hate it out, like pithing needle. I mean people have even found ways to deal with commanders they don't like with tuck effects.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I believe the needle was just used as an example to shut down other cards. What would be most effective here would be Humility or Torpor Orb if you're not blue.
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I feel that this game is about having fun and if you feel a certain card is really powerful you don't need to pull up a diaper and make a houserule against using it, just adjust your decks to deal with it.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
I'm not sure how a four player game where two or three people have three or six 3/3 Elephants is "degenerate" because the fourth player has three lands more than them? Plow Under sets a player back two land drops and two draws and is four mana less. Woodfall Primus does 2/3rds of a Terastodon without the potential drawback. Acidic Slime is just as abuseable.
I've seen way more degenerate **** in the current Standard season, let alone some ridiculous EDH games.
It's not, it's just a buzz word people like to use when they want to ban something. Here's one thing I don't get. So what if you destroy someone's board with giga elephant..... you gave them a army.....
The point of the giga elephant is to get a beat stick and take out 3 problem permanents with the draw back of giving them a creature. In otherwords, that thing you just nuked better have been scarier than a 3/3.
Tidespout tyrant is arguably more miserable to play against. On a bad day it turns everything into a bounce spell and on a good day it bounces the board.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
EVERY card has answers, so you would prefer a game with no list? I am guessing you prefer a list that is small but removes the worst offenders from play.
I am not saying I would support a Tbags(love this new nickname) ban, but each group should be able to decide what is fun for it. Calling people babies because they want to adjust the list is just elitist junk. One persons definition of fun is no more valid than anyone else, thats why you vote.
Except in the OP Terrastadon is only really being hated by one vocal player. From what we can gather that person is indeed being a baby and should be called out for it. Catering to controlling people like that just lets them think they can get away with banning cards they don't like for little other reason. It is far better as a whole to teach them to play magic better. Bans based on "I'm bad at magic" is not how it should work.
Yes, it is a pretty good card. At its mana cost, it darn well better be a pretty good card. But as some others have posted, there are other cards that cost the same, or even a bit less, that are even better.
Terastadon seems to me to be one of the types of cards EDH is about. Big, flashy plays with big expensive spells.
Plus, like at least one other poster above, I've seen it do some simply hilarious stuff. I'd be surprised if anyone playing in this format for more than a few months doesn't have at least one or two funny stories about someone playing Terastadon.
I've always thought Terastodon was one of the best-balanced removal spells they've printed recently. Like others have said, I almost never hit lands unless they're problematic. If someone uses it in a ****ty way, blame the playstyle, not the card.
On another hand, if its use is widespread, I can understand if he's just tired of seeing it.
3WR jor kadeen, the prevailer weenies and extra combat forever
3RR zirilan of the claw dragons and damage doublers
4:SymRG::SymRG: wort, the raidmother burn is now EDH viable
2WU kangee, aerie keeper birds
1UBR jeleva, nephalia's scourge spellslinger/storm
here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
3UWR numot, the devastator of [the spirit of edh]
"I told him he cannot make up the rules for all of us to follow, and the best we could do for him is put it up to a vote prior to our next tournament (non sanctioned). He agreed..." from the OP. Reading is tech.
He made a case and is getting a vote. I know you think choice is bad, but most people playing EDH would disagree. We only have one side of the story, I am sure its unbiased...
Again calling someone a baby for getting a vote on a card they think is unfun is elitist junk.
I wouldn't call someone a baby for asking for a vote. But acting like this is a different story...
Thats a childish response. And it can lead to the slippery slope of additional houserules, increasing banlists, and sour feelings when your opponents play good cards.
My circle of friends follow the rules. I'm happy to obey any houserule that everyone agrees to, and I'm happy to play without any houserules at all. If you'd like to call that elitist, feel free.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
I guess I misread your previous post, it looked like you said adjust your deck, dont ask for a change to the ban list. We do not have both sides, I am guessing the OP is skewed to his perception.
Thats a GROSS misrepresentation of what I said. I said it was elitist to call someone down for getting a vote on a card they found unfun. The rules say adjust everything for fun of parties involved.
I felt his initial reaction was childish, and that agreeing to the vote was mature. In fact, creating a deck to abuse the card to help demonstrate why he thinks the card should be banned is a smart way of going about it. I bet you and I might agree on all that too.
I wonder if he'll start appreciating the card in his momir vig deck and change his mind about banning it after it works in his favor.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
I agree with everything you said here. Hopefully he will, but it is possible lots of people in the group just abuse the crap out of it and it got old. That would probably persuade me to have a polite, mature, discussion with the group.
He wasn't running t-don. He just stole it, cloned it. and when he no longer could keep control RFGed it.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I'm pretty sure you can do that with any card on the list.
Bonus points, I know of like better creatures to use if you'll cheat their cost. Bribery Ulamog and laugh.
Reanimate Iona.
Clone Avacyn (that feels so good when it isn't yours)
My playgroup at my LGS at one point had...4? players who ran Terastadon in their deck (myself included). Some games ended up very un-fun, and other games it was a fair trivindicate. The problem arises when the person constantly uses him to blow up lands, and constantly ramps into him every game, even when its not the best creature to tutor up. Sometimes 3 people have lightning greaves out, and you can destroy all 3 turn 6.
If a player doesn't like T-don (and isnt even using him?) then tell him its his choice, and leave it at that. If the guy starts to use him as LD every single time, just throw it back at him 10x worse. There are plenty of clones and reanimate cards to tell the guy to shut up.
You could also make a gentlemen's agreement not to blow up lands that don't have abilities beyond mana ones.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
No offense, but your playgroup is kinda dumb to JUST attack the lands. Lands typically aren't the highest profile targets, especially since "Tbags" gets tutored quite often as a solution to a problem. Special lands like Ith, Cabal, etc., might be good targets, but you want to get rid of as many bad enchantments and artifacts as possible with your 3 picks. He's typically a mid to late gamer, anyway, so there will be plenty of non-lands to choose from, and basic land destruction isn't all that useful unless you are killing everything.
Also, an elephant fight is awesome. That sounds like a green version of Dovescape.
That's a ton of cards from everyone to just set everyone back 3 lands....
Why even do this assuming you weren't just being a jerk for the hell of it, how does this progress the game or help your board position??
Why not just cast Armageddon and be done with it??
As a person who regularly plays Bruna, light of alabaster and against Zur the Enchanter among other decks, I don't want to think about the format without Terastodon
I sincerely hope this entire post is sarcastic.
I've seen this happen by me doing all the actions followed by maelstrom pulse of elephants. Then 3 terastodons stomping my opponents!
But the most db move was reanimating turn 4 Sundering Titan and imaging it then sacing it.
Oh, I'm not saying that situation isn't likely. I've seen similar things happen all the time.
It's the tone and the "this card is overpowered" bit that I assume was sarcastic. There are so, so many better and more powerful cards in the format right now.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the awesome sig!
UW Isperia, Supreme Judge WU
URB Thraximundar BRU
The needle does nothing against Terastadon.
I believe the needle was just used as an example to shut down other cards. What would be most effective here would be Humility or Torpor Orb if you're not blue.
Cockatrice Username: seriph0