Since this is a deck building guide I have a question. I've heard of generals being built around a strategy called kindmaking. I kinda have a basic understanding but would appreciate someone giving me a more exact definition.
Since this is a deck building guide I have a question. I've heard of generals being built around a strategy called kindmaking. I kinda have a basic understanding but would appreciate someone giving me a more exact definition.
Do you mean kingmaking? And is this similar to Voltron?
Basically any effort to "build" a very dangerous creature through augmentation is it's own strategy called Voltron. Note how this is different than alternate builds which have a wider application (i.e. if Stonebrow is in a deck with group effect cards like Primal Rage/Brawn, team buffs like Beastmaster Ascension, and token generators like Avenger of Zendikar -- this is a completely different goal & deckbuild than Voltron)
The trade-off with Voltron is that while it can be fast and deadly, you are often "all in" for your one gameplan, which is get a big guy to kill with, and can be devastated when that creature and/or the boons gets dealt with (Terminus, Spin into Myth, Purify, Eaten by Spiders, etc). The goal is typically to aim for 21 General Damage, so if that gets sidetracked or becomes impossible, your deck can sputter while your opponents stabilize. It is also critical to remember that your opponents will not all sit idly by while you become the largest threat - as you build your 30/30 monstrosity, they will have their combined efforts to wipe you out. This also means that you will need multiple turns and/or attack phases to kill players. Therefore supplemental cards like Relentless Assault or Static Orb are often needed to try and regain parity against multiple opponents.
I hope this has answered your assumed question about 'kingmaking' -- if not I hope you might have at least learned something new!
Basically any effort to "build" a very dangerous creature through augmentation is it's own strategy called Voltron. Note how this is different than alternate builds which have a wider application (i.e. if Stonebrow is in a deck with group effect cards like Primal Rage/Brawn, team buffs like Beastmaster Ascension, and token generators like Avenger of Zendikar -- this is a completely different goal & deckbuild than Voltron)
The trade-off with Voltron is that while it can be fast and deadly, you are often "all in" for your one gameplan, which is get a big guy to kill with, and can be devastated when that creature and/or the boons gets dealt with (Terminus, Spin into Myth, Purify, Eaten by Spiders, etc). The goal is typically to aim for 21 General Damage, so if that gets sidetracked or becomes impossible, your deck can sputter while your opponents stabilize. It is also critical to remember that your opponents will not all sit idly by while you become the largest threat - as you build your 30/30 monstrosity, they will have their combined efforts to wipe you out. This also means that you will need multiple turns and/or attack phases to kill players. Therefore supplemental cards like Relentless Assault or Static Orb are often needed to try and regain parity against multiple opponents.
I hope this has answered your assumed question about 'kingmaking' -- if not I hope you might have at least learned something new!
"Kingmaking" is like Group Hug, only rather than help everyone you choose one player to help, and basically try and make that player win. The idea is that they should hopefully reciprocate, and you can turn the game into 2v1v1, and hopefully when the other two die you can backstab him and close out the game in your favor.
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As others have said, this is a truly helpful guide. I started playing EDH a few months ago, and I found and consulted this as I put together my first deck. I've continued to refer back to it, and each time I've come away with something new/additional. I've also referred others new to this format to this guide.
What about a Hall Monitor archetype? It's essentially the opposite of Group Hug but not quite Group Slug. It's goal is to reset te board whenever needed, deal with things that can get out of hand.
I guess it's somehow control but I see control as protecting yourself while Hall Monitor is "what's good for everyone"
And for your M10/Innistrad lands, they're usually referred to as Checklands.
great advice. this is gold. thanks, helped out a lot. i came back to this game after 5 years simply because of this format and the new ravnica coming out.
I apologize for not reading all 9 pages, but I didn't notice any mention of Maze of Ith under utility lands or universally good cards; if I had one for every deck I'd put it in.
Work kept me busy months longer than usual this year, but I should have plenty of time for the forums for the rest of the year. Great to be back, and just in time for the Return to Ravnica... my favorite plane, I'm so jazzed!
Updated the guide with some of the new cards and some of the suggestions (thanks for the help guys). Put a link to ISBPathfinders token guide in too. I'll keep updating from time to time. Always a work in progress
I dislike this as it encourages decks to do what is always done in EDH. Which kills it when I see some dude walk in with some G-wave deck and play the same way 3 other people are. Threads and ideas like this spreading are killing the casual nature of EDH into a mindless mass of people who want to play cards everybody else plays.
I dislike this as it encourages decks to do what is always done in EDH. Which kills it when I see some dude walk in with some G-wave deck and play the same way 3 other people are. Threads and ideas like this spreading are killing the casual nature of EDH into a mindless mass of people who want to play cards everybody else plays.
And while you're entitled to your opinion, this thread is mainly (at least how I've used it) to help people understand more about edh....
Nowhere does it say that you have to use this or follow this thread, so I'm wondering at the point of your comment..
It doesnt point to exactly what you find wrong, but just says a generalized, "I dont like this because it ruins the casual aspect."
I know that every playgroup is different in game speed, but what is the breaking point where you need to be doing more than ramping up for your real plays? Is it safe to assume that the first three to four turns are ramp with the odd utility dude, or is the meta at large running faster than my own group's?
Well I agree that so many people use the same deck builds there are definitely some key cards that should be in each commander deck depending on the commander. I have some ideas of good possible commanders and different combos on my website MTGjunkie.com. I also agree that there is no best deck for EDH in general. I do think you can enhance your deck through your specific play group because you know what you are playing against and you will be ready for what strategies other players have in store for you.
stay away from cards and strategies that make the game "unfun" (I know, not a word) for the other players. Playing cards like Knowledge Pool, Stasis or Winter Orb might be fun for you, but a lot of people despise playing against those cards, and they might not invite you to play again. Remember, unless it's competitive, keep it fun for everybody, not just yourself.
With all credit assigned to the original poster, I pulled both posts into one Word document and made very minor grammatical and layout edits so that those who so desire can print the document for reference. I made one minor substantive change by noting the commander can be returned to the command zone to avoid being tucked. If I obtain the permission of the original poster, I will try to make more substantive changes to bring a few sections up to update (mostly just by adding any new multicolored lands)- link is to Word file on Google drive. (Hope that's okay, this is my first post.)<a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kqpvJzC7GdT2YybGJXaFltbTg/view?usp=sharing">Word Document</a>
I would like to request adding in a "skeleton build" for a commander deck as a good base for newer players.
(I.E. X land, X removal, X mana rocks, and so on.)
Do you mean kingmaking? And is this similar to Voltron?
Voltron = getting one creature/commander to be the strongest/deadliest it can be in as reasonably fast as is possible. Usually paired with Equipment & beneficial enchantments (Rafiq of the Many + Darksteel Plate + Dueling Grounds; or Stonebrow, Krosan Hero + Hedron Matrix + Mage Slayer), and sometimes with Auras (Uril, the Miststalker + Angelic Destiny; or Balefire Dragon + Mythic Proportions + True Conviction)
The 5 Swords are often used in this style as well (Light & Shadow, Fire & Ice, Feast & Famine, War & Peace, Body & Mind) because of their combined utility & evasion on a low, low price (mana-wise).
Basically any effort to "build" a very dangerous creature through augmentation is it's own strategy called Voltron. Note how this is different than alternate builds which have a wider application (i.e. if Stonebrow is in a deck with group effect cards like Primal Rage/Brawn, team buffs like Beastmaster Ascension, and token generators like Avenger of Zendikar -- this is a completely different goal & deckbuild than Voltron)
The trade-off with Voltron is that while it can be fast and deadly, you are often "all in" for your one gameplan, which is get a big guy to kill with, and can be devastated when that creature and/or the boons gets dealt with (Terminus, Spin into Myth, Purify, Eaten by Spiders, etc). The goal is typically to aim for 21 General Damage, so if that gets sidetracked or becomes impossible, your deck can sputter while your opponents stabilize. It is also critical to remember that your opponents will not all sit idly by while you become the largest threat - as you build your 30/30 monstrosity, they will have their combined efforts to wipe you out. This also means that you will need multiple turns and/or attack phases to kill players. Therefore supplemental cards like Relentless Assault or Static Orb are often needed to try and regain parity against multiple opponents.
I hope this has answered your assumed question about 'kingmaking' -- if not I hope you might have at least learned something new!
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Staff"Kingmaking" is like Group Hug, only rather than help everyone you choose one player to help, and basically try and make that player win. The idea is that they should hopefully reciprocate, and you can turn the game into 2v1v1, and hopefully when the other two die you can backstab him and close out the game in your favor.
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EDH Cube
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Well done, Blackjack68.
I guess it's somehow control but I see control as protecting yourself while Hall Monitor is "what's good for everyone"
And for your M10/Innistrad lands, they're usually referred to as Checklands.
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Work kept me busy months longer than usual this year, but I should have plenty of time for the forums for the rest of the year. Great to be back, and just in time for the Return to Ravnica... my favorite plane, I'm so jazzed!
Updated the guide with some of the new cards and some of the suggestions (thanks for the help guys). Put a link to ISBPathfinders token guide in too. I'll keep updating from time to time. Always a work in progress
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Dude, you need to update the GCO mafia thread....
And if you need help with something Blackjack, feel free to ask us for it.... we all ower you for your work...
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyAnd while you're entitled to your opinion, this thread is mainly (at least how I've used it) to help people understand more about edh....
Nowhere does it say that you have to use this or follow this thread, so I'm wondering at the point of your comment..
It doesnt point to exactly what you find wrong, but just says a generalized, "I dont like this because it ruins the casual aspect."
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyThanks.
I've already got the manabase crafter in the guide
I'll add Krenko, thanks, I'm kinda behind on the last couple sets as I was out of commission for most of the year.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyYep, already did
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
This^
There is no way for you to put my commander in my library.
OP is 4 years old you know.
I would like to request adding in a "skeleton build" for a commander deck as a good base for newer players.
(I.E. X land, X removal, X mana rocks, and so on.)
Also, Shahrazad is misspelled in your post.