MTG Salvation

I just want to say how incredibly useful this thread has been for me. Thanks for putting in all the work, Blackjack!

Quote from Samurro

At first thanks for the informative post, with all the info there is. I read almost everything I suppose. I am new to COM format and I want to build my own first deck.

I would describe myself as a casual player, who enjoys playing hiw favorite colors which are G,B and to some degree U. ( did start playing magic with APO )
Now I am eagerly awaiting the new commander decks from WotC and esp. the Devour for power one, because they fit perfectly with my colors.

I am playing magic only via online programs. So budget is no argument for me. My question is if tricolor is recommended or if I should start with less colors for my first deck? And which landtypes are staples for a commander deck, this guide is not quite clear on that, imo.

Thanks in advance.

Glad you liked it. I'll take look at the land section and see if I can't improve on it. Thanks for the feedback there.

On 2 or 3 colors - 3 colors is easy enough to do and reliable, especially if you have access to the $$ cards, though they aren't mandatory. With that said, I'm a fan of 2-color, even after playing for a long time and building a lot of decks, I really like the simplicity and reliability of a 2-color manabase. More of a personal preference than anything I guess.

Given that you'll be playing BG.... the question you should ask to decide whether to include U or another color, is "does that third color significantly add to accomplishing the goal of my deck". And since I don't think you have a strategy pinned down yet, that questions probably up in the air. BG has access to nearly everything you could want. Card Draw, Ramp, Fatties, Spot Removal of any kind of permanent, Sweepers, Recursion.

On the best lands to get (since $$ is not an issue):
The Origianal Dual Lands (Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Revised) are the best, period. The GB one is Bayou. A close second are the Ravnica Block Shocklands. The GB is Overgrown Tomb.

The reason these lands are so good is that not only do they come in untapped (for a price on shocklands), but they also have basic land types. Overgrown tomb or Bayou is both a Forest and a Swamp so it can be fetched with anything that says to fetch either of those land types. Which brings us to.....

Fetchlands - From the Onslaught and Zendikar blocks, they team up perfectly with the original duals and shocklands. The one for you is Verdant Catacombs. Since it fetches either a swamp or a forest, it will get either of the above and fix your mana.

A note on fetchlands - You can also use whats called "off-color" fetches. Even though your GB, you can still effectively run Polluted Delta, Marsh Flats, Bloodstained Mire, Wooded Foothills, and Windswept Heath. Even though they only fetch one of your land types, they still get one of your dual lands, so they will help fix your mana almost as well as "on-color" fetches.

After those 3 types of land....

Filter lands - Twilight Mire
Tribal lands - Gilt-Leaf Palace - if you don't have an elf it just comes in tapped.
Pain lands - Llanowar Wastes


*** a note on fetching - If a card says to fetch a "swamp" or "forest" it's fine to use with a dual or a shock, but that doesn't work if it says "basic swamp" or "basic forest". Even though the duals have basic land "types", they are not basics.

Hope that helps.

Quote from RWF_Less

Child of Alara should definitely be included with the 5 Color generals. Other than that, awesome job man!

Thanks, I'll put Child in with the 5 color.

*edit - done

I actually print this out and give it to those people interested in edh/commander.

Partially updated to include some of the new cards and made a few sections a little clearer, but I ran up against the character limit for the post so I'll have to make any further editing very..... creative.

Quote from Blackjack68

Partially updated to include some of the new cards and made a few sections a little clearer, but I ran up against the character limit for the post so I'll have to make any further editing very..... creative.

This thread is practically overflowing with useful information but that doesn't mean it needs to stop. Now might be the time to start up a new thread, reserve the second post and then reference this thread so people can view the discussion.

EDIT: You also don't have the much maligned Chaos archetype listed. If you're going to point out Stax and mass LD I think Chaos should get a spot as well.

Quote from Donald

This thread is practically overflowing with useful information but that doesn't mean it needs to stop. Now might be the time to start up a new thread, reserve the second post and then reference this thread so people can view the discussion.

I'll pm Viperesque and see if maybe I can start a new one with a reserved spot and just have this deleted.

You also don't have the much maligned Chaos archetype listed. If you're going to point out Stax and mass LD I think Chaos should get a spot as well.

I thought about this a little. I'm not solid on my position, but what I'm thinking is:
Though "Chaos" decks do exist, and some chaos effects in a deck can be a legitimate strategy, a deck fully dedicated to just causing chaos/randomness, by definition, isn't attempting to win (where LD and Stax are).

I'd also hate to put the idea into the head of a newer player. I've seen some people think it sounds like fun, and then wonder why everyone gets mad at them.

If anyone has a different take on that, I'd be interested to hear it.

You make a new post and ill proof read it (after your decklists, im convinced you need someone to ^^”)

Quote from Macius

You make a new post and ill proof read it (after your decklists, im convinced you need someone to ^^”)

lol, well played sir.


update:
Viperesque fixed the first page, I've got some elbow room now

I just found your topic, this is on play style, I'm wondering if you might accept some suggestions?

For tokens, I believe Ulasht the Hate Seed is also a somewhat popular token/combo general for those who wish to play red.

I also didn't see a strategy for the opposite of group hug (maybe group slug or agitator). Decks do exist for people who player Kaervek, the Merciless or even some mono-red builds and I feel they fit their own category of play style - namely agitate a lot of people and try make it harder to play the game due to damage, discard etc, while winning at same time.

Well done on the effort involved. I'm impressed.

Quote from MiffedMoogle

I just found your topic, this is on play style, I'm wondering if you might accept some suggestions?

All suggestions appreciated and considered.

For tokens, I believe Ulasht the Hate Seed is also a somewhat popular token/combo general for those who wish to play red.

Agreed, I'll add him as soon as I finish up here.

I also didn't see a strategy for the opposite of group hug (maybe group slug or agitator). Decks do exist for people who player Kaervek, the Merciless or even some mono-red builds and I feel they fit their own category of play style - namely agitate a lot of people and try make it harder to play the game due to damage, discard etc, while winning at same time.

I'll work on something for this. I'm not experienced with the style, so I'll look over some decklists on here or maybe even start a thread asking for some input. If you have any experience with it, post up.

Well done on the effort involved. I'm impressed.

Thank You.

Quote from Blackjack68

I'll work on something for this. I'm not experienced with the style, so I'll look over some decklists on here or maybe even start a thread asking for some input. If you have any experience with it, post up.

Kaerveck the Merciless, Zo-Zu the Punisher and Heartless Hidetsugu are examples of generals from this archetype. It is generally filled with very hateful things like Manabarbs, Ankh of Mishra, Spellshock, Acidic Soil, Sulfuric Vortex, etc. along with ways to break the synergy (Urza's Armor) or gain life and cards that only affect your opponents like Underworld Dreams. Additional disruption tends to come from stuff like Stranglehold, Chains of Mephistopheles, mass discard, etc. It's a great archetype for scaring the crap out of blue control decks.;)

Quote from Donald

Kaerveck the Merciless, Zo-Zu the Punisher and Heartless Hidetsugu are examples of generals from this archetype. It is generally filled with very hateful things like Manabarbs, Ankh of Mishra, Spellshock, Acidic Soil, Sulfuric Vortex, etc. along with ways to break the synergy (Urza's Armor) or gain life and cards that only affect your opponents like Underworld Dreams. Additional disruption tends to come from stuff like Stranglehold, Chains of Mephistopheles, mass discard, etc. It's a great archetype for scaring the crap out of blue control decks.;)

I agree, it's the kind of deck to pull out when you don't want to play nice. The deck even operates on rationale "I don't care if it hurts me, as long as it hurts you just as much". MY Kaervek list would show what the deck style tries to do, as would Donald's. A classic card for the archetype would be Wound Reflection in my opinion, horrible everywhere else, but strong in that style deck and when coupled with another negative enchantment or trigger.

Quote from unkyunk

ok... Why are blink effects called 187?

187 is the California police code for homicide. The term was first used on cards from Visions that killed things when they entered play like Nekrataal and Uktabi Orangutan.

Quote from unkyunk

ok... Why are blink effects called 187?

Blink effects aren't called 187; enters-the-battlefield effects on creatures are. The reason is that several prominent early creatures with beneficial ETB effects all had ones that removed other permanents from play - Man-o'-war, Nekrataal, and Uktabi Orangutan. "187" is the California penal code for murder (and as a result is a slang term for the same thing.) Even though many 187 effects in Magic aren't removal of any kind, the term has stuck around.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

Updated: Put a brief clarification/explaination of Blink Archetype and 187 effects.


Punisher - Ok, yeah, I've played against a few decks like that.

How about:
Punisher (Sometimes called "Group Slug") - A little like Stax, but instead of denying and taxing resources, it punishes everything players do like drawing cards, tapping lands, and playing spells with cards like Manabarbs, Ankh of Mishra, Spellshock, Underworld Dreams, Painful Quandary, and Spiteful Visions. The trick is making it hurt your opponents more than it hurts you, and using other effects to mitigate some of the damage like lifegain or cards like Urza's Armor. Popular commanders for the decks are Kaervek the Merciless, Zo-zu the Punisher, and Heartless Hidetsugu.

"The Oona formula" 45 counters, mana excel, draw, bounce, any blue general, 2-3 infinite combos, Tezzeret the Seeker, Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine + Ghost quarters.
The Oath of Druids combo deck in blue!
Tidespout Tyrant + Mana Crypt + Sol Ring and/or Mana Vault.

Updated. A little cleaning and clarifying. Punisher archetype added.

I like thug better than slug but punisher cool too

You forgot Mana Crypt in the artifact ramp section. It's the best out there besides, arguably, Sol Ring.

Quote from Greypoupon

You forgot Mana Crypt in the artifact ramp section. It's the best out there besides, arguably, Sol Ring.

Added, thanks.

EXCELLENT guide Mister Blackjack sir.

I also really love this quote from the Here We Go: section of the first post:

"Chasing perfection is fine as long as you understand that not only can it never be achieved, but that it doesn't even exist in the first place."

I feel like getting that as a tattoo haha.