MTG Salvation

Ok, I'm going to call this done for now. I'll gladly go back and make any changes though if someone has any good suggestions. And I'll try to keep it current with new set releases.

I fixed a couple of typos and added Academy Ruins to the utility lands list, since I figured that isn't very controversial. More importantly, this thread now gets top billing in the deckbuilding portion of the Resources sticky. Thank you very much for putting all this effort into it!

Quote from viperesque

I fixed a couple of typos and added Academy Ruins to the utility lands list, since I figured that isn't very controversial. More importantly, this thread now gets top billing in the deckbuilding portion of the Resources sticky. Thank you very much for putting all this effort into it!

Great, thanks for doing that.... I enjoy doing stuff like this.

Ahhhh thank you so much for this thread! It cleared up Everything about EDH, now to get on that sliver deck!

Timesifter seems like a fun card.

That and things like Wild Evocation are great in EDH, I don't understand how you think random is bad. It adds fun and craziness to EDH, and that is good.

Quote from Schtauffen

Timesifter seems like a fun card.

That and things like Wild Evocation are great in EDH, I don't understand how you think random is bad. It adds fun and craziness to EDH, and that is good.

Save the evaluations for people who have actually played with Timesifter. It is NOT fun. It seems like you are equating randomness with fun. First, this is not true for most people. Second, if randomness IS what you find fun, I'm sure there are variants other than EDH that would add even more randomness for you that you could try instead. For example, dice magic:

After every turn, that player rolls a die. If they roll a 6, they lose the game! Wow, it's even more random and fun! You could lose at any time! Be the last person standing!

That's what playing with Timesifter is like, for the record. Some people just randomly get locked out of playing the game due to the card.

I really disagree with the use Wild Evocation and similar cards if they're being played just for the sake of "fun/randomness." If they contribute to your game plan, then great, that's how you should do it. But injecting randomness for the sake of randomness just makes the game one big die roll and prevents people from playing their deck the way they built it to run.

More on topic, this guide is phenomenal, and I agree with almost every shred of it. +1 Blackjack, well done.

While some of the cards like Wild Evocation may be fun for some, and perfectly acceptable in some groups, I want to keep in mind that this is a general guide mostly for new/newer edh'ers. A lot of players frown on randomness, so I think most would agree, that those cards are best left for later on down the road, not a first timer deck. A bunch of random effects in a newbie deck is a recipe for a big pile of grief.

Schtauffen... I completely understand your position on randomness, and many playgroups like it, and I enjoy it under very particular circumstances. but 99.9% of the time I (and most in my group) derive our enjoyment of the game from what BlackLeadAlchemist quoted me on. Building a good deck, playing it well and solid competition, not luck.

Might I suggest adding a small section on cards that have an inherant risk to them, and why they are not to be played? For example, cards like Harrow that require you to sac a land regardless of whether or not it resolves are just not worth the risk when you could play Cultivate or Kodama's Reach for the same price. Other examples would include anything that involves the keyword "echo", or the phrase "as an additional cost to cast <this spell>, <do other stuff>", anything with required upkeep costs, etc (of course, there are some exceptions to the upkeep cost one, like Braid of Fire or Hibernation's End).

My gut tells me that Oona should knock off one of the UB generals, as she is a great control/combo general in 2 color.

I think Dralnu could represent the pure controlness of UB while Oona could represent the combo/controlness of UB. Sygg just underwhelms IMO, because to me, if you're going to Voltron play Wrexial or get out of UB (opinion not a flame).

Also, Oona, while capable of being very challenging to play/tune optimally is not inherently complicated at face value, make infinite mana, drop Oona, win. She's a general that I think lets you dip your toe in the water and play combo to see if you like it, or go all in with and really commit to optimizing a combo deck.

OCPunisher - Yeah, I'll have to add something along those lines. I'll try and figure something out. Thanks.

Ogrefoot - I added Oona to the popular list. I almost never see her around here, but from the decklist database she looks to be fairly popular.

Quote from Blackjack68

OCPunisher - Yeah, I'll have to add something along those lines. I'll try and figure something out. Thanks.

Ogrefoot - I added Oona to the popular list. I almost never see her around here, but from the decklist database she looks to be fairly popular.

As long as my baby's getting some love, I'm happy.

I really like the section on "cards you shouldn't play". I thought it might be a good idea to expand on that one a little, as it seems all too common among rookie builders. Rather than focus on individual cards, I'd like to expand on the general concepts that make cards X and Y bad.
- Single Card syndrome: Some cards are better in other formats because you can have four copies in your 60 card deck (or multiple copies in your 40 card deck). In EDH, you only get one copy in your 99 card deck. Refer to the EDH math thread for the specifics, but the general principle is that you cannot guarantee that any one card will always show up in your opening hand (besides your Commander). Specific examples include things like Thoughtseize, Goblin Guide, and Birds of Paradise. EXCEPTION: Even though you won't always start the game with them in play, most of the Leylines are still quite playable in the right context. Just don't expect to play them on turn zero.
- Single Opponent syndrome: Some cards are only good because you have one single opponent. This format was intended to have multiple opponents, so anything that only targets one of them will leave you open for the rest of the group to retaliate. Specific examples include things like Cruel Ultimatum, Traumatize, and the Exalted mechanic.
- Forty Life syndrome: Everyone starts out with 40 life in this game, not 20. Even if you beat the odds and pull out a turn 1 Goblin Guide, it will take you twice as long to kill someone with it in this format. Ball Lightning wouldn't be any good if it was a 3/1 creature, but in EDH it might as well be. Duskdale Wurm would be terrible if it was a 4/4 creature. Other examples include any burn or mill spell that isn't a permanent.
- Vanilla Beater syndrome: Some people read about EDH and see that "bigger is better", so they think that they need to pack in as many Duskdale Wurms and Shivan Dragons as they can. This is a common misconception. Being "just big" does not cut it - creatures need to have meaningful abilities. Even Serra Avatar is kinda meh in this format because it's really just a vanilla body that doesn't do anything special. Compare a Serra Avatar to a Darksteel Colossus: the DSC has trample (evasion) and protection (indestructible) built into its big body, but the Avatar does not. Furthermore, compare any other flying creature to any Akroma.
- Common Solution syndrome: This is a problem I see when people are trying to fill a certain void with the most common solution, rather than the most effective or synergistic one. For example, let's say you want enchantment removal for your green/white deck. Common solutions are Disenchant and Naturalize, but neither of those cards are playable. For the same cost, Revoke Existance will RFG the enchantment. For one more mana, Krosan Grip will give you split-second. Return to Dust could exile two targets at instant-speed. Aura Shards could destroy many more enchantments over the course of the game. Fracturing Gust destroys them all at instant speed and gains you a substantial amount of life. Other examples of "common solutions" are Negate, Sign in Blood, and Terror.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, I'll expand on that some (might take me til the weekend though). Is it ok with you if I directly use some of what you wrote?

Sure, use as much of it as you like.

Ok, updated to include stuff from MBS.

Revamped the section on "bad card choices" (thanks OCPunisher)

Added Infect/Poison, Enchantress, and Group Hug to the playstyles section (thanks Waiting in the Weeds).

Thanks for putting this thread together! It's really an invaluable resource for those just getting started in EDH (even if they have a lot of experience playing other formats) like myself!

Cheers!

I have been playing for a few years now and this gave me a whole other way of looking at this format thanks.

Quote from Blackjack68

I've created a post with tables showing the different % probabilities based on # of copies of drawing certain cards or combos in your EDH deck, and it's followed up by some mathematic calculations by other members that are frankly over my head, but if your very mathematically inclined it may interest you. You can find that thread here.

Your should be you're (you are). Sorry for the nitpicking, but I guess if this is going to be linked as an *official* useful thread, it should strive to be immaculate.

Quote from ApollotheUnlimited

Your should be you're (you are). Sorry for the nitpicking, but I guess if this is going to be linked as an *official* useful thread, it should strive to be immaculate.

No, that's cool. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll go change it now.

And thanks linconvelus and wtwlf123.

Why is Sedris, the Traitor King not listed under reanimator?
Actually, where is he?

I don't have anything against Sedris.
The reason he's not listed under popular generals is just because I wanted to keep the number down to a reasonable level. In Grixis colors, Thraximundar is much more popular, and arguably, much more powerful.
The reason he's not listed under reanimator is I've never heard of a reanimator deck using him. Reanimator doesn't refer to just bringing creatures back from the graveyard, lots of edh decks do that to some degree. Reanimator is a specific archetype that's goal is to quickly dump specific creatures from the library into the gy, then cheat them into play much quicker/cheaper than they can be hardcast.

I'll update the post to be more specific about reanimator.

the main deck in my group is a sedris deck. his combo is Traumatizeinto a living death

Quote from Macius

the main deck in my group is a sedris deck. his combo is Traumatizeinto a living death

Yeah but you don't need Sedris to do that. You can do that in any deck that uses those colors.

Quote from TheGodOfWar91

Yeah but you don't need Sedris to do that. You can do that in any deck that uses those colors.

Im not saying you need sedris. its that sedris has an reanimation engine in him.