Green still offers strong support for tokens, anti-flyer hate, non-creature spot removal, and of course it is still easily the best color for ramping out fatties. People need to get over themselves if their decks relied that much on Prime Time.
But it was the target of EVERY tutor in green. It ramped into UTILITY lands, plus was a 6/6 trample for 6 that got more fuel each attack. It was just the center of every green deck I see. This should really add some diversty.
I mean, I'll be honest, I'm just butthurt because it did all of that for ME. It was the center of MY deck, and now my deck sucks a little more. That's what I always hate about these bannings - they take something that was at a certain power level that I enjoyed and neuter it in some significant way. Last time Sundering Titan hurt. This time Prime Time hurts WAY more.
Massive fail. Massive, massive fail. Primeval was very, very good but it did not dominate the format.
I would argue that Prime did warp the format. In fact, if you read this thread alone, you'll realize that some people decided to play green only because of the titan.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I agree that one card combos like Hermit Druid should be banned before auto-includes like Primeval Titan.
Ask yourself how often a game was swayed by Hermit Druid. Now do the same with Prime Time. The sheer volume should show why PT was the right call. I do think Druid should be out, but if its one, this is the right one.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I mean, I'll be honest, I'm just butthurt because it did all of that for ME. It was the center of MY deck, and now my decks sucks a little worse. That's what I always hate about these bannings - they take something that was at a certain power level that I enjoyed and neuter it in some significant way. Last time Sundering Titan hurt. This time Prime Time hurts WAY more.
Admitting bias adds more to your argument then refusing to do so. Green decks will have to adapt, and they will. The color is ****ing amazing.
Koko banned as a commander makes a lot of sense, as explained in the article. As a commander, you could play him, sac him, let him go to the grave (why in the world would you put him in the command zone?) and then use one of black's bazzilion reanimation effects to do it again and again. And if the use exile effects? no problem, cast it for it 2 more and go for it. As part of the 99 exile= done (for the most part). I am fine with it, there a lot of good fatties, and he is welcome.
Worldfire is in the same vein (kind of) as Sway of the Stars and Upheavel. It just negates the entire game up until that point. For consistency, this banning makes sense.
I guess my meta is REALLY casual, because Prime was never really an issue. I can probably convince people to leave him unbanned, but we'll see. I don't like it, but it is what it is.
So a good decision with koko, a consistent decision with worldfire and a meh to bad decision on prime. My 2 cents for anyone that cares.
EDH is like French fries: some people like waffle cut, crinkle cut, or plain old straight cut, and while there's slight flavor difference and personal preference, at the end of the day they're still fries.
This is why he needs to not exist. Any SINGLE card that makes a color not worth running if it doesn't exist is the definition of format and game warping. This line of thought proves the banning correct.
This is a crazy statement. "So, we've got this color that doesn't do anything in edh except for a single card, so let's ban this card to doom the color to eternal irrelevance!".
Green is not worthless, it has tooth and nail, survival of the fittest, greater good, and eternal witness..... Yeah, well green is back to being the utility color again.
So what's next to complain about? Other than druid and card sphinx, I think we need to start complaining about dark mike.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
In terms of power in edh, the order of the color was b>u>g>w>r for a long time. Green is still fun to play, but why ban a green card when neither color nor the card itself dominates the meta.
Maybe I have a strange meta. I haven't seen Primeval Titan in the top8 of our local commander tournaments for 3 months.
"He" didn't ban a card. Did you read the article about it? Because I don't think you did at all.
I did, they all agreed. Since I only know sheldon that is on the RC, and papa_funk, just assume i mean the RC when i say Sheldon. You can switch them out, it doesn't really make a difference.
In terms of power in edh, the order of the color was b>u>g>w>r for a long time. Green is still fun to play, but why ban a green card when neither color nor the card itself dominates the meta.
Maybe I have a strange meta. I haven't seen Primeval Titan in the top8 of our local commander tournaments for 3 months.
Commander tournaments have ZERO to do with the ban list. I am sure they are dominated by turn 4-5 combo decks that can't cast a Prime Time. It dominated the green landscape for casual/social players, which is the formats target.
I did, they all agreed. Since I only know sheldon that is on the RC, and papa_funk, just assume i mean the RC when i say Sheldon. You can switch them out, it doesn't really make a difference.
So you are saying that those people saw Prime Time too often and they decided they did not like it? And that this led to the ban?
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
How's Primeval banned, when Sol Ring is more broken ramp, Tooth and Nail actually force-wins the game, and Palinchron's used for nothing other than combo?
Commander tournaments have ZERO to do with the ban list. I am sure they are dominated by turn 4-5 combo decks that can't cast a Prime Time. It dominated the green landscape for casual/social players, which is the formats target.
EDH tournaments are not reflective of the format whatsoever. They largely are "Vintage - lite" for players who don't have the Power 9
How's Primeval banned, when Sol Ring is more broken ramp, Tooth and Nail actually force-wins the game, and Palinchron's used for nothing other than combo?
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
I just looked at my decks... other utility cards.... he was the only green creature in my multi color decks...... LOL, Pretty soon all of those will be banned lol.
You dont play E-Wit or Oracle?
Yea thats what we have seen the last two cycles, Tons of cards being banned, nothing coming off...
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
That is pretty... painful for me (i.e. the banning of Primeval Titan part). I'd argue that the "overrepresentation of heavy ramp" strategy is a stretch and that it is not really that banworthy though another part of me is actually happy as I am sorta forced to innovate some my lists that do use the Titan.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
This is why he needs to not exist. Any SINGLE card that makes a color not worth running if it doesn't exist is the definition of format and game warping. This line of thought proves the banning correct.
^This. I remember putting together a RG deck on Cockatrice with the express purpose of making a color combo I did not like as competitive as possible. And after playing it multiple times I came to one conclusion about my gameplan: Always Grab Prime Time. Survival? Worldly Tutor? Green Sun? Always Grab Prime Time. It was a mantra.
At my LGS, I frequently play with a guy who runs Karador. And even though the end goal of his deck tended to be Yosei-locks, what was his first tutor always for? Prime Time. I remember one instance specifically where he had cast Eladamri's Call, and was holding those two in his hands, deciding which one to grab. He chuckled a little, said "What am I thinking?," and then cast Prime Time.
There were Ten Commandments to playing green in EDH. And every last one was Always Grab Prime Time.
Green is still the second-best color when it comes to tutors, the best or second-best when it comes to artifact and enchantment removal, the best at ramping, and still has powerful combos like Survival and T&N. There's nothing about this ban that obsoletes green in EDH.
"He" didn't ban a card. Did you read the article about it? Because I don't think you did at all.
I mean, I'll be honest, I'm just butthurt because it did all of that for ME. It was the center of MY deck, and now my deck sucks a little more. That's what I always hate about these bannings - they take something that was at a certain power level that I enjoyed and neuter it in some significant way. Last time Sundering Titan hurt. This time Prime Time hurts WAY more.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I have always wanted to try Scapeshift. If your deck runs Ancient Tomb and Temple of the False God, then this card is just about as good as Explosive Vegetation. And getting to fetch the strongest utility lands in the process is a huge bonus.
It's no PT, but I look forward to finally trying it out.
EDH
Azami (video)
:symw::symb::symg: Teneb (video)
Drana (video) (retired)
:symw::symr: Brion (video)
:symb::symr: Wort (video)
Arcum (video) (retired)
:symr::symg: Stonebrow (video)
B Shirei (video)
WU Rasputin (video) (retired)
R Urabrask (video)
WUR Zedruu (video) (retired)
W Isamaru
UB Grimgrin
U Mistform Ultimus (video)
UBR Gwendlyn (video)
URG Animar (video)
RG Thromok
WB Selenia
Standard
WU Geist of Saint Traft standard EDH (video) (retired)
WUB Battle of Wits!
I would argue that Prime did warp the format. In fact, if you read this thread alone, you'll realize that some people decided to play green only because of the titan.
Ask yourself how often a game was swayed by Hermit Druid. Now do the same with Prime Time. The sheer volume should show why PT was the right call. I do think Druid should be out, but if its one, this is the right one.
Admitting bias adds more to your argument then refusing to do so. Green decks will have to adapt, and they will. The color is ****ing amazing.
Worldfire is in the same vein (kind of) as Sway of the Stars and Upheavel. It just negates the entire game up until that point. For consistency, this banning makes sense.
I guess my meta is REALLY casual, because Prime was never really an issue. I can probably convince people to leave him unbanned, but we'll see. I don't like it, but it is what it is.
So a good decision with koko, a consistent decision with worldfire and a meh to bad decision on prime. My 2 cents for anyone that cares.
You can't have it both ways. He either defined green too much and needed to go or doesn't define green that much and shouldn't be missed.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Green is not worthless, it has tooth and nail, survival of the fittest, greater good, and eternal witness..... Yeah, well green is back to being the utility color again.
So what's next to complain about? Other than druid and card sphinx, I think we need to start complaining about dark mike.
I think you mean it's u=g>b>r=w as power order.
I did, they all agreed. Since I only know sheldon that is on the RC, and papa_funk, just assume i mean the RC when i say Sheldon. You can switch them out, it doesn't really make a difference.
So you are saying that those people saw Prime Time too often and they decided they did not like it? And that this led to the ban?
If it was banned only as a maindeck card I could sac him in response. By making Kokusho a maindeck card you are giving me more ways to protect him.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
I just looked at my decks... other utility cards.... he was the only green creature in my multi color decks...... LOL.
Even Consecrated Sphinx's worse. Two Primeval Titans don't end the game like two Consecrated Sphinxes do.
He was actually FUN to play too, unlike this TNN/Palinchron/Consecrated bull****.
RAAAAAAGE
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
EDH tournaments are not reflective of the format whatsoever. They largely are "Vintage - lite" for players who don't have the Power 9
Pretty soon all of those will be banned lol.
You dont play E-Wit or Oracle?
Yea thats what we have seen the last two cycles, Tons of cards being banned, nothing coming off...
to attack a specific meta seems ill advised.
it was powerful yes, but not degenerate.
Oh well, it has been fun
Not inconsistent. Green is not defined by Prime Titan, people played as if he was.
^This. I remember putting together a RG deck on Cockatrice with the express purpose of making a color combo I did not like as competitive as possible. And after playing it multiple times I came to one conclusion about my gameplan: Always Grab Prime Time. Survival? Worldly Tutor? Green Sun? Always Grab Prime Time. It was a mantra.
At my LGS, I frequently play with a guy who runs Karador. And even though the end goal of his deck tended to be Yosei-locks, what was his first tutor always for? Prime Time. I remember one instance specifically where he had cast Eladamri's Call, and was holding those two in his hands, deciding which one to grab. He chuckled a little, said "What am I thinking?," and then cast Prime Time.
There were Ten Commandments to playing green in EDH. And every last one was Always Grab Prime Time.
Green is still the second-best color when it comes to tutors, the best or second-best when it comes to artifact and enchantment removal, the best at ramping, and still has powerful combos like Survival and T&N. There's nothing about this ban that obsoletes green in EDH.
Draft my Peasant Cube.