Worldfire is no surprise. I've never seen anyone actually cast it, but I imagine it would piss the entire table off, since it invalidates the entire game up to that point.
Prime Time is ehh. He's an enabler for sure, but honestly if I was going to ban something to punish mindless green ramp decks it would be Tooth And Nail.
Ie been worldfired by Jhoira. It's not fun. At all. Out of all her obliterate effects, this one was the worst. Putting you to one life was awful. One time the guy pulled off worldfire with Magmatic Force. So we all just died on our upkeeps.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
Good changes as far as I'm concerned. Kind of wanted to cast a Worldfire at some point just to put everyone in top deck mode, but I'm not disappointed I can't.
This is the last straw for me. I'm not going to adhere to this banned list any more. It's utter nonsense.
You want to have a prime time free game? Ban it in your local store sheldon, not around the globe.
You f---ing banned it because you thought that there were too many ramp decks. Are you serious? This is unbelievable. No card is safe from banning from these ridiculous criteria.
It's just amazing how little they listen to reason.
As always your kind words go a long way. I am shocked you feel this way.
If you like him, house UNban it, most of us do not like how he centralized the game. The RC took note, Sheldon is not on some personal mission to ban cards he dislikes.
I'm really disappointed in the PT banning. If they really believe in not banning cards which are used fairly, they should have left this guy alone...
Disappointing, but we'll see where this leads. Like others said, at least this will make cards like Green Sun's Zenith a bit more dynamic.
One of the major issues was how OTHER people reacted to him. The game became Capture the Prime Time. Pluss getting more fuel for attacking with a 6/6 trampler for 6 was just nutty.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I honestly don't want to play green in any of my decks without Primeval Titan. I'm far less excited to get Kokusho, the Evening Star back than I expected to be when it's tempered by the fact that I'm losing Prime Time in the same announcement. Blerg...
As always your kind words go a long way. I am shocked you feel this way.
If you like him, house UNban it, most of us do not like how he centralized the game. The RC took note, Sheldon is not on some personal mission to ban cards he dislikes.
I find that my world makes a lot more sense if I just assume that Waiting_in_the_Weeds is a smurf account made by an RC member to discredit their opposition.
As always your kind words go a long way. I am shocked you feel this way.
If you like him, house UNban it, most of us do not like how he centralized the game. The RC took note, Sheldon is not on some personal mission to ban cards he dislikes.
He does have a point though, not to put poop in the pot, but he follows the legitimate uses argument like hermit druid. When the RC says druid has legitimate uses, but then bans a card for format warping... it's frustrating to even attempt to follow the banlist logic because there is none. It's simple, the banlist bans cards people don't like with no rhyme or reason to it. Which is fine, if you go into this format knowing that, it's easy to not get mad. One minute the banlist is a suggestion, then the next it's not a suggestion it's a banlist. There are so many tangents with the banlist and the RC that it's frustrating to keep all the stories straight. That's probably why he's pissed.
It's easy to not get mad when you know the list caters to whiners, which it does.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
I honestly don't want to play green in any of my decks without Primeval Titan. I'm far less excited to get Kokusho, the Evening Star back than I expected to be when it's tempered by the fact that I'm losing Prime Time in the same announcement. Blerg...
Doesn't that just tell you he was way to central to ANY deck? Green does TONS of good stuff, but without Prime Time you don't want to play the color? LEt it settle in, you will find games a lot more enjoyable without him.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I honestly don't want to play green in any of my decks without Primeval Titan. I'm far less excited to get Kokusho, the Evening Star back than I expected to be when it's tempered by the fact that I'm losing Prime Time in the same announcement. Blerg...
This is why he needs to not exist. Any SINGLE card that makes a color not worth running if it doesn't exist is the definition of format and game warping. This line of thought proves the banning correct.
You f---ing banned it because you thought that there were too many ramp decks. Are you serious?
Lately, while going to different stores, the decks that I've seen are almost always Green based ramp, and then classify themselves as something else such as "combo/ramp" or "control/ramp" by how they finish or take control of the game.
There aren't as many purely synergistic decks anymore, where everything fits together smoothly.. unless that archetype is ramp. How often do you see Rebel Tribal anymore? It used to be one of the better decks to play, because everything combined with the rest to have a rube goldberg type deck. It was fun to play, powerful, and relatively cheap. But then wizards went on a ramp happy spree. Suddenly the cheap decks were those who could spew out insane amounts of mana early on. It wasn't any longer an expensive archetype. Sol Rings dropped. Titans ruled standard, then dropped. Ramp spells got cheaper and more cost effective. There was little reason to run anything but green based ramp or blue/black based combo.
This isn't a fun environment.
Primeval Titan was the backbone of almost all ramp decks. Your job was to tutor for and play titan, then get as many swings in with it as you could. It wasn't "what can I get to best interact with the board and get ahead?"
I partially blame the "social only" aspect of EDH. By claiming it as such, you're implying that non-interactivity is good, because you wouldn't want to upset the other players, would you? Titan is the ultimate "I don't really care what you're doing" card in the sense you can play it, ramp, and play bigger spells without bothering to look at what other people have except for theft effects.
The banning of titan kills off my Dredgric deck in terms of the speed it had, but it also forces the deck to do something different with its Natural Order other than NO-> Titan -> Bazaar/Cradle or Cradle/Minamo.
Surprise! The format had some life breathed into it.
I'm glad I am not playing PrimeTime because I'm playing green. I'm playing green because that's what suits my deck's strategy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
He does have a point though, not to put poop in the pot, but he follows the legitimate uses argument like hermit druid. When the RC says druid has legitimate uses, but then bans a card for format warping... it's frustrating to even attempt to follow the banlist logic because there is none. It's simple, the banlist bans cards people don't like with no rhyme or reason to it. Which is fine, if you go into this format knowing that, it's easy to not get mad. One minute the banlist is a suggestion, then the next it's not a suggestion it's a banlist. There are so many tangents with the banlist and the RC that it's frustrating to keep all the stories straight. That's probably why he's pissed.
It's easy to not get mad when you know the list caters to whiners, which it does.
I know you are a professional troll, but I will bite. Primte Time had fair use, that is true. The issue was he WARPED the game because he was in EVERY green deck and awesome in every strat. This is not true of Hermit Druid. Just because you don't like/follow the logic does not mean it does not exist.
The list caters to whiners? Thats why it is short and does not reflect the vocal minority. Sure thing, just back that up with some evidence if you please.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Massive fail. Massive, massive fail. Primeval was very, very good but it did not dominate the format. Worldfire didn't even make an impact. Kokusho's main power is completely erased when you put it into the command zone and it's massively overshadowed by many, many other commanders.
I really have a hard time articulating how much I dislike this decision (and, generally, the last several decisions too).
Doesn't that just tell you he was way to central to ANY deck? Green does TONS of good stuff, but without Prime Time you don't want to play the color? LEt it settle in, you will find games a lot more enjoyable without him.
Green ramps. Now it ramps a little worse. It honestly offers very little utility outside of that.
I guess I enjoyed the announment. If only for the fact that my Xiahou Dun, The One Eyed deck will get even better. Primeval Titan was a slight surprise.
I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
I like that prime time is banned. People freaking out don't realize how much everyone else will suffer to. It will almost be equal except for the decks that heavily rely don him for land tutoring..... like my kresh deck for cabal/urborg >_<
Green ramps. Now it ramps a little worse. It honestly offers very little utility outside of that.
You couldn't be more wrong (see above). Imagine getting cabal and urborg's out, then getting the land that untaps a land and kessig wolf run out the next.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Massive fail. Massive, massive fail. Primeval was very, very good but it did not dominate the format. Worldfire didn't even make an impact. Kokusho's main power is completely erased when you put it into the command zone and it's massively overshadowed by many, many other commanders.
I really have a hard time articulating how much I dislike this decision (and, generally, the last several decisions too).
The banlist has already been declared not to cater towards what dominates or what's overpowering. Just by what's "unfun" by that arbitrary definition. Which is why no one is going to agree on what should be on it or not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Lately, while going to different stores, the decks that I've seen are almost always Green based ramp, and then classify themselves as something else such as "combo/ramp" or "control/ramp" by how they finish or take control of the game.
There aren't as many purely synergistic decks anymore, where everything fits together smoothly.. unless that archetype is ramp. How often do you see Rebel Tribal anymore? It used to be one of the better decks to play, because everything combined with the rest to have a rube goldberg type deck. It was fun to play, powerful, and relatively cheap. But then wizards went on a ramp happy spree. Suddenly the cheap decks were those who could spew out insane amounts of mana early on. It wasn't any longer an expensive archetype. Sol Rings dropped. Titans ruled standard, then dropped. Ramp spells got cheaper and more cost effective. There was little reason to run anything but green based ramp or blue/black based combo.
This isn't a fun environment.
Primeval Titan was the backbone of almost all ramp decks. Your job was to tutor for and play titan, then get as many swings in with it as you could. It wasn't "what can I get to best interact with the board and get ahead?"
I partially blame the "social only" aspect of EDH. By claiming it as such, you're implying that non-interactivity is good, because you wouldn't want to upset the other players, would you? Titan is the ultimate "I don't really care what you're doing" card in the sense you can play it, ramp, and play bigger spells without bothering to look at what other people have except for theft effects.
The banning of titan kills off my Dredgric deck in terms of the speed it had, but it also forces the deck to do something different with its Natural Order other than NO-> Titan -> Bazaar/Cradle or Cradle/Minamo.
Surprise! The format had some life breathed into it.
I'm glad I am not playing PrimeTime because I'm playing green. I'm playing green because that's what suits my deck's strategy.
Everyone should be forced to read this post before making posts themselves. Prime Titan being gone INCREASES diversity and health of the format.
I agree that one card combos like Hermit Druid should be banned before auto-includes like Primeval Titan.
But I enjoy auto-includes being banned also. It expands the metagame. But one over the other it should have been a Hermit Druid in my eyes.
Also as a general thought, it should be understood that only recently has the printing of cards been taking EDH into account. After all the nice toys coming out with RtR, I'm sure the creators have their head in the game now, and should be able to print strong, entertaining cards to open up more possibilities to the format. I hope.
This is why he needs to not exist. Any SINGLE card that makes a color not worth running if it doesn't exist is the definition of format and game warping. This line of thought proves the banning correct.
I mean I liked tooth and nail before people went stupid with him and I would probably just dismantle my green decks if that gets banned. It's literally my first rare that I ever opened when I started playing. Overall, I'm happy they didn't ban combos and I got a new toy for mike!!! I can't wait to drain the table and replicate kokusho! The power has shifted back to blue and black!!!! The reign of combo has returned!!! So much fun awaits the EDH community!
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
Green ramps. Now it ramps a little worse. It honestly offers very little utility outside of that.
But it was the target of EVERY tutor in green. It ramped into UTILITY lands, plus was a 6/6 trample for 6 that got more fuel each attack. It was just the center of every green deck I see. This should really add some diversty.
This is a crazy statement. "So, we've got this color that doesn't do anything in edh except for a single card, so let's ban this card to doom the color to eternal irrelevance!".
Green still does great stuff, just let it settle in. EDH is better with this card out.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
This is a crazy statement. "So, we've got this color that doesn't do anything in edh except for a single card, so let's ban this card to doom the color to eternal irrelevance!".
Oh hi there captain hyperbole. Green isn't defined by Prime Titan, people are just blinded by it. Green still = Blue in terms of EDH amazingness.
As always your kind words go a long way. I am shocked you feel this way.
If you like him, house UNban it, most of us do not like how he centralized the game. The RC took note, Sheldon is not on some personal mission to ban cards he dislikes.
I find that my world makes a lot more sense if I just assume that Waiting_in_the_Weeds is a smurf account made by an RC member to discredit their opposition.
Because no one can disagree with the RC? No one can be upset with the update unless they are a fake person??
That's really paranoid.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
"Aaaannnd it's gone."
Ie been worldfired by Jhoira. It's not fun. At all. Out of all her obliterate effects, this one was the worst. Putting you to one life was awful. One time the guy pulled off worldfire with Magmatic Force. So we all just died on our upkeeps.
twitter.com/bccarlso
If you like him, house UNban it, most of us do not like how he centralized the game. The RC took note, Sheldon is not on some personal mission to ban cards he dislikes.
One of the major issues was how OTHER people reacted to him. The game became Capture the Prime Time. Pluss getting more fuel for attacking with a 6/6 trampler for 6 was just nutty.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I find that my world makes a lot more sense if I just assume that Waiting_in_the_Weeds is a smurf account made by an RC member to discredit their opposition.
He does have a point though, not to put poop in the pot, but he follows the legitimate uses argument like hermit druid. When the RC says druid has legitimate uses, but then bans a card for format warping... it's frustrating to even attempt to follow the banlist logic because there is none. It's simple, the banlist bans cards people don't like with no rhyme or reason to it. Which is fine, if you go into this format knowing that, it's easy to not get mad. One minute the banlist is a suggestion, then the next it's not a suggestion it's a banlist. There are so many tangents with the banlist and the RC that it's frustrating to keep all the stories straight. That's probably why he's pissed.
It's easy to not get mad when you know the list caters to whiners, which it does.
This is why he needs to not exist. Any SINGLE card that makes a color not worth running if it doesn't exist is the definition of format and game warping. This line of thought proves the banning correct.
Lately, while going to different stores, the decks that I've seen are almost always Green based ramp, and then classify themselves as something else such as "combo/ramp" or "control/ramp" by how they finish or take control of the game.
There aren't as many purely synergistic decks anymore, where everything fits together smoothly.. unless that archetype is ramp. How often do you see Rebel Tribal anymore? It used to be one of the better decks to play, because everything combined with the rest to have a rube goldberg type deck. It was fun to play, powerful, and relatively cheap. But then wizards went on a ramp happy spree. Suddenly the cheap decks were those who could spew out insane amounts of mana early on. It wasn't any longer an expensive archetype. Sol Rings dropped. Titans ruled standard, then dropped. Ramp spells got cheaper and more cost effective. There was little reason to run anything but green based ramp or blue/black based combo.
This isn't a fun environment.
Primeval Titan was the backbone of almost all ramp decks. Your job was to tutor for and play titan, then get as many swings in with it as you could. It wasn't "what can I get to best interact with the board and get ahead?"
I partially blame the "social only" aspect of EDH. By claiming it as such, you're implying that non-interactivity is good, because you wouldn't want to upset the other players, would you? Titan is the ultimate "I don't really care what you're doing" card in the sense you can play it, ramp, and play bigger spells without bothering to look at what other people have except for theft effects.
The banning of titan kills off my Dredgric deck in terms of the speed it had, but it also forces the deck to do something different with its Natural Order other than NO-> Titan -> Bazaar/Cradle or Cradle/Minamo.
Surprise! The format had some life breathed into it.
I'm glad I am not playing PrimeTime because I'm playing green. I'm playing green because that's what suits my deck's strategy.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
The list caters to whiners? Thats why it is short and does not reflect the vocal minority. Sure thing, just back that up with some evidence if you please.
I really have a hard time articulating how much I dislike this decision (and, generally, the last several decisions too).
Green ramps. Now it ramps a little worse. It honestly offers very little utility outside of that.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
My current decks!
http://tappedout.net/users/ThePhasewalker/
You couldn't be more wrong (see above). Imagine getting cabal and urborg's out, then getting the land that untaps a land and kessig wolf run out the next.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
The banlist has already been declared not to cater towards what dominates or what's overpowering. Just by what's "unfun" by that arbitrary definition. Which is why no one is going to agree on what should be on it or not.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
A lot of people are going to be grumpy at the LGS this Thursday.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/commander/24889-Commander-Official-Banned-List-And-Format-Philosophy.html
Everyone should be forced to read this post before making posts themselves. Prime Titan being gone INCREASES diversity and health of the format.
But I enjoy auto-includes being banned also. It expands the metagame. But one over the other it should have been a Hermit Druid in my eyes.
Also as a general thought, it should be understood that only recently has the printing of cards been taking EDH into account. After all the nice toys coming out with RtR, I'm sure the creators have their head in the game now, and should be able to print strong, entertaining cards to open up more possibilities to the format. I hope.
WUBRGReaper KingGRBUW 5c Blink [Less Competitive]
WBEvershrikeBW Orzhov Enchantments [Less Competitive]
GIwamori of the Open FistG Green Smash [Less Competitive]
RGWUInk-Treader NephilimUWGR Draw Too Many Cards [More Competitive]
URJhoira of the GhituRU Izzet Stax [More Competitive]
URGRiku of Two ReflectionsGRU Ceta Dredge [More Competitive]
Modern
RUGBNightshiftBGUR Like Scapeshift but bad
I mean I liked tooth and nail before people went stupid with him and I would probably just dismantle my green decks if that gets banned. It's literally my first rare that I ever opened when I started playing. Overall, I'm happy they didn't ban combos and I got a new toy for mike!!! I can't wait to drain the table and replicate kokusho! The power has shifted back to blue and black!!!! The reign of combo has returned!!! So much fun awaits the EDH community!
Green still does great stuff, just let it settle in. EDH is better with this card out.
Oh hi there captain hyperbole. Green isn't defined by Prime Titan, people are just blinded by it. Green still = Blue in terms of EDH amazingness.
No he banned a card because it was over used.
Because no one can disagree with the RC? No one can be upset with the update unless they are a fake person??
That's really paranoid.