Hi Ticker,
First, I am not posting to you in a condescending manner; I would appreciate it if your responses weren't so snarky towards me. We are just discussing the strengths and weaknesses of a color.
Yes, those are all not quite as good as Armageddon for example. Blood Moon, Ruination and Magus of the Moon are ineffective against a deck without a large number of non-basics. Wake hits some of the lands in play for 2 more than Armageddon, etc. The point is that we (notice I use we - because I run several mon-R EDH decks) don't do it as well, even if we have more spells to do it with.
Not that it has to be a proverbial pi**ing contest between two colors that do mass LD the best when paired together, but white hardly wins out. Black/red has the extremely under-rated Army Ants and Trench Wurm as well, though these usually works best in Jund builds. Both are godly cards, from my experience.
Agreed regarding those 2 critters, but this is Mono-R. I use the dwarven miners and they're awesome when there are targets to hit, but in multiplayer, they don't quite shine since they pull agro and only hit 1 land a turn without Kiki shenanigans.
2. Aftershock, Grab the Reins, andChaos Warp would like to have a word with you. That, and the tons or earthquake effects and steal effects, as you imply.
I run Aftershock and Warp. Only warp actually stops an indestructible general and Aftershock does absolutely nothing at all. Red (and I believe Green as well) has a tough time with that mechanic. This really hurts in a format where your opponent can have access to Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre the next turn after you Grab/Sac.
3. So you're essentially saying red has staples? Cool story.
That was not at all the point I was attempting to relay. I posted that to show that the red staples are all mimicing the effects more common in the other colors.. Those cards are staples in our decks, yet they are all mimicing other colors.
Red is fun - hell Grip of Chaos is worth running red for the extreme lulz alone. That's why I run it.
Well firstly, I'm kind of naturally "snarky" so it's not you, really. You weren't really wrong on most points, but I still disagree that white is ultimately better than red at definitive mass LD. What I mean is, red has more effects that can get rid lands w/o being held up by effects that make them indestructible (Forge, Avacyn, etc). So perhaps in that sense white is better than red on surface of it at mass LD but red has more ways of forcing a sacrifice of lands, and thus answering meta answer. So maybe we're both right?
Recent discussions here and elsewhere have made it clear that there seems to be a group of players who consider blue and control synonymous, as if they somehow started playing a game with four identical and "bad" colors that do nothing interesting because they just "turn men sideways" and then true, glorious blue, the only thinking person's color.
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Well firstly, I'm kind of naturally "snarky" so it's not you, really. You weren't really wrong on most points, but I still disagree that white is ultimately better than red at definitive mass LD. What I mean is, red has more effects that can get rid lands w/o being held up by effects that make them indestructible (Forge, Avacyn, etc). So perhaps in that sense white is better than red on surface of it at mass LD but red has more ways of forcing a sacrifice of lands, and thus answering meta answer. So maybe we're both right?
you missed that red does self recurring creatures better than any other color black has more versatile gy recursion engines but nothing beats the number of usually relevant cards you can bring back though theyll eat gy removal everything has an answer
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.“
its decent but i never really liked that one but it does seem like an upgrade on firemane angel which makes me love it and sad at the same time
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“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.“
What people dont actually understand is that you can build a RDW deck with 15 1 drops, alot of cheap burn, volcanic hammers and flame javelins, with a 3CC commander and a mana curve that stops at 4 and still do awesome in 1v1, sometimes in 2v2 if you got a ally that doesnt just durdle and do nothing for first 5 turns
its decent but i never really liked that one but it does seem like an upgrade on firemane angel which makes me love it and sad at the same time
Oh. Didn't know you wanted it to go specifically back to your hand. That said, I still stand by Kuldotha Phoenix. Metalcraft is pretty easy to obtain, and having a recurring, hasty beater, ready to pick up any blades, and that flies even, is pretty incredible.
Sudden Impact is good. 'Instant' Vicious Shadows, for 4 mana can straight up kill some nonblue player that draws a huge hand.
I also like Mana Barbs, with Gauntlets and mana rocks out you can get players low and force them to take damage till they answer it, it's great. If you sit behind Ensnaring Bridge that's a huge headache for them 'cause you can generally hit them directly with damage and they can't get through.
I agree 100% red is frisking awesome becuase of all those cards listed and not just mono red I think reds amazing please make on of these for moni white I think that would be the hardest deckto build. Mono red is like really damn good lol monk white seems like there is no hope in a fast competitive metagame with counters and combos and ramp I my white gets removal as its best cards I dunno not a white mage :/
Ug that post was not readable but in summary. Reds awesome mono or mixed. White is great as a support color and also has some amazing cards
Wraths
Geddons
Aven minscensor
Humility
Swords
To name a few but how does a mono w deck finsh a game or stop the blue players I don't have any clue do one of these for white becuase I don't know how I'd pull it off
Maybe elesh norn tokens with stone forge swords luminarch and make it tron token I dunno I just can't see mono w being that good
I'm
An idout I just saw your other thread
Merged and warned triple post. Please use the "EDIT" functionality to add in additional comments rather than repeatedly posting. -ISB
First, I am not posting to you in a condescending manner; I would appreciate it if your responses weren't so snarky towards me. We are just discussing the strengths and weaknesses of a color.
Yes, those are all not quite as good as Armageddon for example. Blood Moon, Ruination and Magus of the Moon are ineffective against a deck without a large number of non-basics. Wake hits some of the lands in play for 2 more than Armageddon, etc. The point is that we (notice I use we - because I run several mon-R EDH decks) don't do it as well, even if we have more spells to do it with.
Agreed regarding those 2 critters, but this is Mono-R. I use the dwarven miners and they're awesome when there are targets to hit, but in multiplayer, they don't quite shine since they pull agro and only hit 1 land a turn without Kiki shenanigans.
I run Aftershock and Warp. Only warp actually stops an indestructible general and Aftershock does absolutely nothing at all. Red (and I believe Green as well) has a tough time with that mechanic. This really hurts in a format where your opponent can have access to Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre the next turn after you Grab/Sac.
That was not at all the point I was attempting to relay. I posted that to show that the red staples are all mimicing the effects more common in the other colors.. Those cards are staples in our decks, yet they are all mimicing other colors.
Red is fun - hell Grip of Chaos is worth running red for the extreme lulz alone. That's why I run it.
Agreed!
Isperia, Supreme Judge: Control
Malfegor: Control
THIS post shows the real problem with mono-red. =P
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/1/6/5261/20801.jpg
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Sounds like it. Good point of view!
*Cough* Norin *Cough*
Also, Acidic Soil is good.
Currently 62/265 cards.
And yes, Acidic Soil is soooooooo awesome.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Kemba, Kostume
Ka...Oh god that's not a good alliteration.Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Shard Phoenix Firewing Phoenix Magma Phoenix Squee, Goblin Nabob Hammer of Bogardan Skarrgan Firebird these are the ones off the top of my head
theyre great with Hammer Mage Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Jallum Tome and several other cards listed in the thread
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
into play no Knollspine Invocation and other effects need it in your hand
its decent but i never really liked that one but it does seem like an upgrade on firemane angel which makes me love it and sad at the same time
But then, you have an inferior edric deck...
Oh. Didn't know you wanted it to go specifically back to your hand. That said, I still stand by Kuldotha Phoenix. Metalcraft is pretty easy to obtain, and having a recurring, hasty beater, ready to pick up any blades, and that flies even, is pretty incredible.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Win die roll, play first.
Mountain->Winds of Change
GG
Reckless Waif; It's the red Delver of Secrets.
I also like Mana Barbs, with Gauntlets and mana rocks out you can get players low and force them to take damage till they answer it, it's great. If you sit behind Ensnaring Bridge that's a huge headache for them 'cause you can generally hit them directly with damage and they can't get through.
GWRUB[EDH] Reaper KingGWRUB
GW[Legacy] BEARS (#1 Threat in America)GW
UR[Legacy] Arcane MeleeUR
Braid of Fire + Brand of Ill Omen = Sad Person.
Is what I do.
^This. I even played R in both my sealed flights today, one RG and the other RB.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Ug that post was not readable but in summary. Reds awesome mono or mixed. White is great as a support color and also has some amazing cards
Wraths
Geddons
Aven minscensor
Humility
Swords
To name a few but how does a mono w deck finsh a game or stop the blue players I don't have any clue do one of these for white becuase I don't know how I'd pull it off
Maybe elesh norn tokens with stone forge swords luminarch and make it tron token I dunno I just can't see mono w being that good
I'm
An idout I just saw your other thread
Merged and warned triple post. Please use the "EDIT" functionality to add in additional comments rather than repeatedly posting. -ISB
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Heck yeah! Though I am irritated that red didn't get a lord in M13 and it it received a worse burn suite that what m12 handed out. :/
Well, I guess he's not a lord technically. He's better; he's a boss.
Just you wait! Once more riggers are printed, Steamflogger Boss is going to take mono red to the next level!
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths