Dromar, the Banisher is a house, especially with Warped Devotion. The key is finding cheap and/or repeatable effects to control all aspects of the opponents game plan. This includes creatures, lands, enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers, cards in hand, graveyards, spells, life, and mana. Play proactive-reactively, that is play permanents that let you play reactively. Also don't play to win, play to not lose until you can both answer things and advance your boardstate.
GAAIV Stax/Control is the most powerful way to play control, you can't really debate that.
lol what? have you BEEN to the internet before? Everything's debatable.
in my experiences:
triplets draws a ton of hate, and its ability isn't conducive to keeping counter/removal mana up. Interesting, sure. good for control, no.
mimeoplasm is no doubt a strong general, but his ability doesn't really do much for control per se.
angus is more of a soft lock than other generals and tends to defend itself while letting everyone else go nuts. the problem is that, while it's fine against aggro decks as long as he doesn't get killed, lots of cards in EDH will generate tons of card advantage and other dangerous things to overwhelm you outside of just combat damage. Not that I haven't been successful with Angus, but you do need lots of other control to prevent things going too crazy.
if you're looking for pure control, Child is probably the controllingest of the bunch. The downside is that you've got to be ready for Xv1 when you start boardwiping every turn. But on the plus side, Child is one of the few control generals who actually has a chance to pull that sort of situation off.
A softer version of child that I like is glissa, since she gets the benefits of angus (people don't want to attack) with lots of good removal and built in CA. She's less capable of getting a vice grip on the table like child is, though. I tend to use her to keep the table balanced until I can go in for kills.
Sounds cool. I want to try something like that (heavy control, general as a finisher) with Jenara. I need to do something with my excess of control cards and the copy of Jenara my friend gave me... although lacking black is a bit of a shame.
CA, mana and Permission are the holy trinity. (Mana accel helps)
CA is mostly Blue but Green and Black get some.
So Green and any color with artifact (read any color) works.
Permission is a Blue Black White Red Green ability (depending on how loose your interpretation of it is).
Now I would say best colors for control would then be Blue Green and Black. Now add the general. If the general can push the deck above that, then it's better. Otherwise, seems Damia wins.
My experience has been that draw is usually better for control than tutoring. A sprinkling of the best tutors never hurts when you need a specific answer in a pinch, though.
That's probably why Damia is considered good; you can literally dump your hand in an effort to control the board every turn, as long as you have enough mana. However, she is pretty expensive given the fact that she has to stay alive an entire pass around the board just to get any value, apart from her deathtouch. Even then, blocking seems pretty unintuitive given how powerful her draw trigger is.
That said, she is one of very few high cmc generals that is worth keeping counterspell mana open to protect, given the amount of value you get if she sticks. Plus, you can do cool things like use her as an engine for the Invasion block cycle of "Words of X" cards. Or stuff like Insidious Dreams, so you can discard chaff and ensure you draw relevant spells. Or ensure you have lands for cool retrace cards like Worm Harvest.
She is unique enough and actually good enough that I would give her a try.
CA, mana and Permission are the holy trinity. (Mana accel helps)
CA is mostly Blue but Green and Black get some.
So Green and any color with artifact (read any color) works.
Permission is a Blue Black White Red Green ability (depending on how loose your interpretation of it is).
Now I would say best colors for control would then be Blue Green and Black. Now add the general. If the general can push the deck above that, then it's better. Otherwise, seems Damia wins.
since when is ramp a core element of control? Seems like you're defining it arbitrarily. Ramp can be part of control, but the only thing that's really required to be a control deck is that you run a large number of answers. CA is usually implied, but you could run a mono-white deck with every wrath and I'd call that control; you're just generating your CA indirectly.
green really isn't generally strong on control, red has more answers than green does. blue, black, and white really have the most. Green works great as a support color, but in terms of control elements it doesn't bring much to the table.
Damia's ok for a casual meta I guess. For my money, though, she's way too expensive and way too big of a target to be a good control general, though.
Damia's ok for a casual meta I guess. For my money, though, she's way too expensive and way too big of a target to be a good control general, though.
I mean, she has a lower profile than most of the other generals being recommended here. I'm pretty sure GAAIV and Azami would get hated out of my meta too consistently to really be all that effective. Sure, they can work if you go to random groups just to stomp, but if you visit a regular group and attempt to combo out or set up a lock every game, the group will just kill you first every time and/or change their decks to specifically beat yours.
I mean, she has a lower profile than most of the other generals being recommended here. I'm pretty sure GAAIV and Azami would get hated out of my meta too consistently to really be all that effective. Sure, they can work if you go to random groups just to stomp, but if you visit a regular group and attempt to combo out or set up a lock every game, the group will just kill you first every time and/or change their decks to specifically beat yours.
Well the good thing about GAAIV or azami is that they have an immediate benefit when they hit the table. Damia doesn't do anything unless she survives a full turn. GAAIV will at least make the removal used against him more expensive (and makes counterspells to protect him cheaper so you can play him with backup sooner), and azami can often draw 3+ cards when she hits the table, even if she gets removed the instant you pass priority.
Also, of course, both are cheaper. Damia can get priced into ridiculousness pretty quickly.
Well the good thing about GAAIV or azami is that they have an immediate benefit when they hit the table. Damia doesn't do anything unless she survives a full turn. GAAIV will at least make the removal used against him more expensive (and makes counterspells to protect him cheaper so you can play him with backup sooner), and azami can often draw 3+ cards when she hits the table, even if she gets removed the instant you pass priority.
Also, of course, both are cheaper. Damia can get priced into ridiculousness pretty quickly.
I'm not really debating how good Azami and Grand Arbiter are in a vacuum. Anyone who has been around EDH for a bit knows they can be and often are backbreaking generals, given any leniency. But their great strength is also their great weakness; no deck can stand up to a table of 3 other opponents reliably, especially if its goal is to knowingly combo out every game.
If the OP visits different groups all the time, sure, I'll admit that those two can work just fine. But if he or she plays consistently with the same group of people, it's a lot better to just build a very solid control deck rather than a combo-control deck that becomes obsolete after the meta answers it.
I personally don't have a problem losing to a combo every so often, but with a dedicated combo deck, you yourself lose the option to play casually when you want to. Point being, you should try to build a deck that can compete when you need it to, or relax when you want it to, though I realize that isn't always an easy thing to do.
I'm not really debating how good Azami and Grand Arbiter are in a vacuum. Anyone who has been around EDH for a bit knows they can be and often are backbreaking generals, given any leniency. But their great strength is also their great weakness; no deck can stand up to a table of 3 other opponents reliably, especially if its goal is to knowingly combo out every game.
If the OP visits different groups all the time, sure, I'll admit that those two can work just fine. But if he or she plays consistently with the same group of people, it's a lot better to just build a very solid control deck rather than a combo-control deck that becomes obsolete after the meta answers it.
I personally don't have a problem losing to a combo every so often, but with a dedicated combo deck, you yourself lose the option to play casually when you want to. Point being, you should try to build a deck that can compete when you need it to, or relax when you want it to, though I realize that isn't always an easy thing to do.
He said he was trying to make a control deck, not a combo deck. No one's forcing MoM to be included in every azami deck, or whatever combo you think GAAIV runs to be in that deck. they're both great control generals. although as you might recall, my favs are child and glissa.
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
In search of a foil french Dromar, the Banisher, pm me if you have one you want to part with, also foil Stratadon's.
lol what? have you BEEN to the internet before? Everything's debatable.
in my experiences:
triplets draws a ton of hate, and its ability isn't conducive to keeping counter/removal mana up. Interesting, sure. good for control, no.
mimeoplasm is no doubt a strong general, but his ability doesn't really do much for control per se.
angus is more of a soft lock than other generals and tends to defend itself while letting everyone else go nuts. the problem is that, while it's fine against aggro decks as long as he doesn't get killed, lots of cards in EDH will generate tons of card advantage and other dangerous things to overwhelm you outside of just combat damage. Not that I haven't been successful with Angus, but you do need lots of other control to prevent things going too crazy.
if you're looking for pure control, Child is probably the controllingest of the bunch. The downside is that you've got to be ready for Xv1 when you start boardwiping every turn. But on the plus side, Child is one of the few control generals who actually has a chance to pull that sort of situation off.
A softer version of child that I like is glissa, since she gets the benefits of angus (people don't want to attack) with lots of good removal and built in CA. She's less capable of getting a vice grip on the table like child is, though. I tend to use her to keep the table balanced until I can go in for kills.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Sounds cool. I want to try something like that (heavy control, general as a finisher) with Jenara. I need to do something with my excess of control cards and the copy of Jenara my friend gave me... although lacking black is a bit of a shame.
CA, mana and Permission are the holy trinity. (Mana accel helps)
CA is mostly Blue but Green and Black get some.
So Green and any color with artifact (read any color) works.
Permission is a Blue Black White Red Green ability (depending on how loose your interpretation of it is).
Now I would say best colors for control would then be Blue Green and Black. Now add the general. If the general can push the deck above that, then it's better. Otherwise, seems Damia wins.
That's probably why Damia is considered good; you can literally dump your hand in an effort to control the board every turn, as long as you have enough mana. However, she is pretty expensive given the fact that she has to stay alive an entire pass around the board just to get any value, apart from her deathtouch. Even then, blocking seems pretty unintuitive given how powerful her draw trigger is.
That said, she is one of very few high cmc generals that is worth keeping counterspell mana open to protect, given the amount of value you get if she sticks. Plus, you can do cool things like use her as an engine for the Invasion block cycle of "Words of X" cards. Or stuff like Insidious Dreams, so you can discard chaff and ensure you draw relevant spells. Or ensure you have lands for cool retrace cards like Worm Harvest.
She is unique enough and actually good enough that I would give her a try.
Isperia, Supreme Judge: Control
Malfegor: Control
since when is ramp a core element of control? Seems like you're defining it arbitrarily. Ramp can be part of control, but the only thing that's really required to be a control deck is that you run a large number of answers. CA is usually implied, but you could run a mono-white deck with every wrath and I'd call that control; you're just generating your CA indirectly.
green really isn't generally strong on control, red has more answers than green does. blue, black, and white really have the most. Green works great as a support color, but in terms of control elements it doesn't bring much to the table.
Damia's ok for a casual meta I guess. For my money, though, she's way too expensive and way too big of a target to be a good control general, though.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I mean, she has a lower profile than most of the other generals being recommended here. I'm pretty sure GAAIV and Azami would get hated out of my meta too consistently to really be all that effective. Sure, they can work if you go to random groups just to stomp, but if you visit a regular group and attempt to combo out or set up a lock every game, the group will just kill you first every time and/or change their decks to specifically beat yours.
Isperia, Supreme Judge: Control
Malfegor: Control
Well the good thing about GAAIV or azami is that they have an immediate benefit when they hit the table. Damia doesn't do anything unless she survives a full turn. GAAIV will at least make the removal used against him more expensive (and makes counterspells to protect him cheaper so you can play him with backup sooner), and azami can often draw 3+ cards when she hits the table, even if she gets removed the instant you pass priority.
Also, of course, both are cheaper. Damia can get priced into ridiculousness pretty quickly.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I'm not really debating how good Azami and Grand Arbiter are in a vacuum. Anyone who has been around EDH for a bit knows they can be and often are backbreaking generals, given any leniency. But their great strength is also their great weakness; no deck can stand up to a table of 3 other opponents reliably, especially if its goal is to knowingly combo out every game.
If the OP visits different groups all the time, sure, I'll admit that those two can work just fine. But if he or she plays consistently with the same group of people, it's a lot better to just build a very solid control deck rather than a combo-control deck that becomes obsolete after the meta answers it.
I personally don't have a problem losing to a combo every so often, but with a dedicated combo deck, you yourself lose the option to play casually when you want to. Point being, you should try to build a deck that can compete when you need it to, or relax when you want it to, though I realize that isn't always an easy thing to do.
Isperia, Supreme Judge: Control
Malfegor: Control
He said he was trying to make a control deck, not a combo deck. No one's forcing MoM to be included in every azami deck, or whatever combo you think GAAIV runs to be in that deck. they're both great control generals. although as you might recall, my favs are child and glissa.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6