I hate the banning, most people know this. Through the banning, I lost quite a bit of respect for people that I always had the highest respect for.
However, I will be respecting the banlist for the good of our group and the good of the game.
I feel exactly the same, although I have to admit it also cemented some opinions I had about others as well. I also count myself fortunate that being mostly a MTGO player, I won't have to deal with the people who refuse to ban him.
Democracy is the worst form of government except for every other form we've tried. And this pot admits it's at least as black as that kettle, so don't go thinking your personal ban list would make things so much better.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Becuase this ban was for not of the right reasons and your argument was piss poor. You banned a card that was many people favorite card and the face of the format but you don't ban sol ring as well? This a format where you get to okay your favorite cards of all time did you honestly think banning a ramp staple was worry people losing there favorite card? Does your oleaster outweigh my pain no it does not. It wasn't healthy for my group becuase I dive sime if them Thier and it's a small playgroup and I'm still so pissed I'm just not going to play. Primetime was not even important to be I used him fairly never tutored him but he was one of my favorites gone and I don't want to waste my time playing edh if your just going to ban my cards years after I've been using them vs taste ramp us too good in multiplayer.
Becuase this ban was for not of the right reasons and your argument was piss poor. You banned a card that was many people favorite card and the face of the format but you don't ban sol ring Mana Crypt as well? This a format where you get to okay your favorite cards of all time did you honestly think banning a ramp staple was worry people losing there favorite card? Does your oleaster outweigh my pain no it does not. It wasn't healthy for my group becuase I dive sime if them Thier and it's a small playgroup and I'm still so pissed I'm just not going to play. Primetime was not even important to be I used him fairly never tutored him but he was one of my favorites gone and I don't want to waste my time playing edh if your just going to ban my cards years after I've been using them vs taste ramp us too good in multiplayer.
Fixed that for you.
"Primetime was not even important to be I used him fairly never tutored him" - So you didn't abuse him and he wasn't central to your strategy, but his banning has you so pissed off that you don't want to play EDH anymore? Seems legit.
"Primetime was not even important to be I used him fairly never tutored him" - So you didn't abuse him and he wasn't central to your strategy, but his banning has you so pissed off that you don't want to play EDH anymore? Seems legit.
Pretty much. Hypocrisy running rampant around this banning.
Will I miss him? Absolutely. He made so many ridiculous things easy to pull off--and that is the problem. Coffers\Urborg still exists--it's just more difficult to set up. And so on and so forth. Adjust your card choices and move on.
Democracy is the worst form of government except for every other form we've tried. And this pot admits it's at least as black as that kettle, so don't go thinking your personal ban list would make things so much better.
I always hated that quote the moment I found out that our democracy is almost completely opposite from the democracy they have in another country.
Becuase this ban was for not of the right reasons and your argument was piss poor. You banned a card that was many people favorite card and the face of the format but you don't ban sol ring as well? This a format where you get to okay your favorite cards of all time did you honestly think banning a ramp staple was worry people losing there favorite card? Does your oleaster outweigh my pain no it does not. It wasn't healthy for my group becuase I dive sime if them Thier and it's a small playgroup and I'm still so pissed I'm just not going to play. Primetime was not even important to be I used him fairly never tutored him but he was one of my favorites gone and I don't want to waste my time playing edh if your just going to ban my cards years after I've been using them vs taste ramp us too good in multiplayer.
If a brain-dead super-goodstuff card like PT was your favorite to the point where you're now crying about the ban, then I feel bad for you.
I begin to understand why Wizards keeps printing dull Timmy fatties that have massive swingy effects on games.
So, after reading most of the posts in this thread and other threads relating to this topic.
I have one question for all of you upset about the banning. Did you play EDH/Commander using the ban list before Primeval Titan was added?
The ruling committee made a decision on a card that they felt needed a vaction. I happen to agree with the decision, and I know that it had been discussed in my playgroup many times before the ruling. Agree or disagree with it, if you used the ban list before PT was on it, you should continue to use it.
Out of non-trolling curiosity, what was that respect previously based on, and what did we do to change your mind? What was the straw, so to speak?
Just so you know, I respect the RC a lot more than I did before the banning of Primeval Titan. I used to think the RC was a joke, but the fact that you were willing to ban Primeval Titan knowing it would make people angry forced me to reevaluate my opinion.
On another note, I love the players who are complaining because they didn't use Titan for anything degenerate. So let me get this straight. You didn't abuse Titan and he wasn't central to your strategy, but you still felt the need to come complain about the fact that you can't use him anymore. Yeahhhh. You guys are bad liars.
I think most are just upset why he was banned... If ramp was the problem there are other ramp cards that are more obvious choices to ban... ie Sol Ring which blue can still tutor with Trinket Mage. Mana Vault and Mana Crypt which any color can play. Extraplanar Lens and Gauntlet of Power... again any color can play and all that ramp.
Green was singled out and Primeval Titan was the supposed culprit. Most just complain about Tooth and Nail and I can see why that card would be banned but Primeval? Most have answers for... counters... steal... copy... or removal... all being played and all can find other targets then Primeval. Will players adjust there answers for Prime Time? Probably not... because what works for dealing with Primeval will work for other popular creatures like Eldrazi.
Ramp really a problem? Cultivate, Rampant Growth, Skyshroud Claim, Kodoma's Reach, Explosive Vegetation really a problem in your meta? Give me a break... I have my ramp blue has there counters. Ramping really giving you a problem then counter my Skyshroud Claim.
In my playgroup I have adjusted my decks but one and have specificaly told everyone I will not remove Primeval Titan from my Karrthus deck because my Karrthus was the first deck I have ever built and refuse to change it. It tooks years for me test, tune, build and not going to change it anymore. Everyone understood. I have decided to get rid of my MTGO account because at least in my local group I have more of a say on what is banned and what is unbanned while online I have no choice. You can't even play French if you wanted too. This banning has shown me how much "control" I have there. You couldn't even have partial or free mulligans there lol...
The reason behind Primeval Titan banning is what frustrates me...
On another note, I love the players who are complaining because they didn't use Titan for anything degenerate. So let me get this straight. You didn't abuse Titan and he wasn't central to your strategy, but you still felt the need to come complain about the fact that you can't use him anymore. Yeahhhh. You guys are bad liars.
Out of non-trolling curiosity, what was that respect previously based on, and what did we do to change your mind? What was the straw, so to speak?
Previous respect based on years of time put in to improve the format I love. Loss of respect based on select members (not including yourself) and private conversations that I will choose to keep private.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
So, after reading most of the posts in this thread and other threads relating to this topic.
I have one question for all of you upset about the banning. Did you play EDH/Commander using the ban list before Primeval Titan was added?
The ruling committee made a decision on a card that they felt needed a vaction. I happen to agree with the decision, and I know that it had been discussed in my playgroup many times before the ruling. Agree or disagree with it, if you used the ban list before PT was on it, you should continue to use it.
Nope. In fact, I didn't play Standard before the Valakut was the big thing with PTime rocking the house there, too. I think that has a lot to do with it - the Titans define my conception of Magic in a big way. I remember when people were clamoring about whether they should be reprinted in M12 or not, with a lot of people saying they really hated them being in Standard. I for one loved them in Standard, and was really glad to see them return. I really have no point of reference for "power creep" etc.
Nope. In fact, I didn't play Standard before the Valakut was the big thing with PTime rocking the house there, too. I think that has a lot to do with it - the Titans define my conception of Magic in a big way. I remember when people were clamoring about whether they should be reprinted in M12 or not, with a lot of people saying they really hated them being in Standard. I for one loved them in Standard, and was really glad to see them return. I really have no point of reference for "power creep" etc.
So let me get this straight, you didn't play by the ban list before and you are upset with the new addition of PT?
Most have answers for... counters... steal... copy... or removal... all being played and all can find other targets then Primeval. Will players adjust there answers for Prime Time?
Prime Time is exactly like Azusa in the sense that as soon as it hits, the removal barely matters because you've already shot ahead. Stupid argument.
@Willmsy: as I stated previously, although I disagree with the decision, I will adhere to the official banlist for the good of the group and the game. I personally believe that this will be many people's response.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
Prime Time is exactly like Azusa in the sense that as soon as it hits, the removal barely matters because you've already shot ahead. Stupid argument.
But not every deck with green in it can effectively make use of Azusa - you have to go out of your way to be able to do so. Conversely, every deck with green in it can effectively make use of PTime - you'd almost have to go out of your way to be unable to do so.
But not every deck with green in it can effectively make use of Azusa - you have to go out of your way to be able to do so. Conversely, every deck with green in it can effectively make use of PTime - you'd almost have to go out of your way to be unable to do so.
Exactly, which is why this whole discussion is stupid. And this is coming from someone who ran PT with Cabal + Urborg/Vesuva for well over a year.
It's stupidity like this (as the OP describes it) that's really making me warm up to the ban. I liked PT; it was nice ramp, but I never used it for shenanigans and that ramp can be replaced. People need to let go.
Anyway, since it's only a suggested ban list, you should let him play it... on the stipulation that the rest of you are allowed to use a reasonable banned card of your choice also. Griselbrand is reasonable, right?
Out of non-trolling curiosity, what was that respect previously based on, and what did we do to change your mind? What was the straw, so to speak?
For a few months you and the RC showed a real interest in testing kokusho, banning GB, and showing a willingness to make your list make sense. Unfortunately, by you made a celebratory decision like unbanning kokusho overshadowed over a divisive card. The arguement for banning PT forces you to ban Consecrated sphinx immediately. You need to ban hermit druid right now because legitimate uses don't matter anymore. You have to ban tooth and nail, it's a green stable like prime time and it gets old. You need to ban palinchron and dead eye navigator. All these cards have a overcentralizing effect on the game.
Players will just bribe and clone the next best thing no matter what you ban. So congrats, you made your list much less attractive because the RC's banning process doesn't make sense even with your revised vision. I personally believe a universal list is the best thing for this format, but I can't support a list that is run by a group that seems to have an axe to grind if something is played too much. It's been less than two days, and we're already asking what's next on your ban hammer list.
My play group was flipping out and we had to amend your list just to continue playing together. That's why you get monkey poo thrown at you every announcement, you feel like you're doing something good for the format, but you're just taking a dump in people's playgroups. If we get mad you just reply with "don't follow the banlist." You guys rule a format like kings but can avoid consequences. I love emrakul, I can understand the ban, GB, awesome sauce, but I understand the ban (my play group just unbanned him and house ruled a sorcery speed once a turn restriction... you know... a social contract), but PT? Please...
On a tangent, it appears that you lied to me about world fire. Where you said you would see how the card goes before banning it, but in your explanation, you didn't even test it you just banned it. That leads me to believe you already decided once it was spoiled. I really don't care about worldfire, but at the very least you appear dishonest, maybe you miss spoke, but that doesn't matter, you're the face of the format and you should be more careful with your words...
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
Anyway, since it's only a suggested ban list, you should let him play it... on the stipulation that the rest of you are allowed to use a reasonable banned card of your choice also. Griselbrand is reasonable, right?
I'm thinking Yawgmoth's Bargain. And if you disagree, I'll get really angry and go on this board to complain, and my internet friends will back me up, and then I'll look really smart!
For a few months you and the RC showed a real interest in testing kokusho, banning GB, and showing a willingness to make your list make sense. Unfortunately, by you made a celebratory decision like unbanning kokusho overshadowed over a divisive card. The arguement for banning PT forces you to ban Consecrated sphinx immediately. You need to ban hermit druid right now because legitimate uses don't matter anymore. You have to ban tooth and nail, it's a green stable like prime time and it gets old. You need to ban palinchron and dead eye navigator. All these cards have a overcentralizing effect on the game.
Players will just bribe and clone the next best thing no matter what you ban. So congrats, you made your list much less attractive because the RC's banning process doesn't make sense even with your revised vision. I personally believe a universal list is the best thing for this format, but I can't support a list that is run by a group that seems to have an axe to grind if something is played too much. It's been less than two days, and we're already asking what's next on your ban hammer list.
My play group was flipping out and we had to amend your list just to continue playing together. That's why you get monkey poo thrown at you every announcement, you feel like you're doing something good for the format, but you're just taking a dump in people's playgroups. If we get mad you just reply with "don't follow the banlist." You guys rule a format like kings but can avoid consequences. I love emrakul, I can understand the ban, GB, awesome sauce, but I understand the ban (my play group just unbanned him and house ruled a sorcery speed once a turn restriction... you know... a social contract), but PT? Please...
On a tangent, you lied to me about world fire. Where you said you would see how the card goes before banning it, but in your explanation, you didn't even test it you just banned it. That leads me to believe you already decided once it was spoiled. I really don't care about worldfire, but at the very least you appear dishonest, maybe you miss spoke, but that doesn't matter, you're the face of the format and you should be more careful with your words...
The RC only has power because people consciously choose to follow its banlist and if you want to ignore the RC then no one is going to stop you. People like you get upset because many players respect the RC's decisions and choose to use its banlist, which means that you don't get to play with those players if you choose to ignore the list. Well, get over it. If anyone in my play group tries to use Prime Time all of my decks are going to turn into turn 1 or 2 Time Vault + Voltaic Key combo or something similarly degenerate.
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I feel exactly the same, although I have to admit it also cemented some opinions I had about others as well. I also count myself fortunate that being mostly a MTGO player, I won't have to deal with the people who refuse to ban him.
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Out of non-trolling curiosity, what was that respect previously based on, and what did we do to change your mind? What was the straw, so to speak?
This sums it up pretty well. If people are going to demand a rule change just because they want to play a certain card. Well fair is fair.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Fixed that for you.
"Primetime was not even important to be I used him fairly never tutored him" - So you didn't abuse him and he wasn't central to your strategy, but his banning has you so pissed off that you don't want to play EDH anymore? Seems legit.
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Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
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Pretty much. Hypocrisy running rampant around this banning.
Will I miss him? Absolutely. He made so many ridiculous things easy to pull off--and that is the problem. Coffers\Urborg still exists--it's just more difficult to set up. And so on and so forth. Adjust your card choices and move on.
I took him out and replaced him with Kokusho, so now I have another reanimate-beyond-infinity target to have fun with.
Best thing ever
I will threaten with Upheaval and friends in Azami, it's not like they don't hate it enough already.
I always hated that quote the moment I found out that our democracy is almost completely opposite from the democracy they have in another country.
Tell your playgroups to cry about it more. The RC might hear and reverse their decision.
If a brain-dead super-goodstuff card like PT was your favorite to the point where you're now crying about the ban, then I feel bad for you.
I begin to understand why Wizards keeps printing dull Timmy fatties that have massive swingy effects on games.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
I have one question for all of you upset about the banning. Did you play EDH/Commander using the ban list before Primeval Titan was added?
The ruling committee made a decision on a card that they felt needed a vaction. I happen to agree with the decision, and I know that it had been discussed in my playgroup many times before the ruling. Agree or disagree with it, if you used the ban list before PT was on it, you should continue to use it.
Just so you know, I respect the RC a lot more than I did before the banning of Primeval Titan. I used to think the RC was a joke, but the fact that you were willing to ban Primeval Titan knowing it would make people angry forced me to reevaluate my opinion.
On another note, I love the players who are complaining because they didn't use Titan for anything degenerate. So let me get this straight. You didn't abuse Titan and he wasn't central to your strategy, but you still felt the need to come complain about the fact that you can't use him anymore. Yeahhhh. You guys are bad liars.
Green was singled out and Primeval Titan was the supposed culprit. Most just complain about Tooth and Nail and I can see why that card would be banned but Primeval? Most have answers for... counters... steal... copy... or removal... all being played and all can find other targets then Primeval. Will players adjust there answers for Prime Time? Probably not... because what works for dealing with Primeval will work for other popular creatures like Eldrazi.
Ramp really a problem? Cultivate, Rampant Growth, Skyshroud Claim, Kodoma's Reach, Explosive Vegetation really a problem in your meta? Give me a break... I have my ramp blue has there counters. Ramping really giving you a problem then counter my Skyshroud Claim.
In my playgroup I have adjusted my decks but one and have specificaly told everyone I will not remove Primeval Titan from my Karrthus deck because my Karrthus was the first deck I have ever built and refuse to change it. It tooks years for me test, tune, build and not going to change it anymore. Everyone understood. I have decided to get rid of my MTGO account because at least in my local group I have more of a say on what is banned and what is unbanned while online I have no choice. You can't even play French if you wanted too. This banning has shown me how much "control" I have there. You couldn't even have partial or free mulligans there lol...
The reason behind Primeval Titan banning is what frustrates me...
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Man has a point.
Augustin, Rasputin, Bruna, Brago, Ojutai
Previous respect based on years of time put in to improve the format I love. Loss of respect based on select members (not including yourself) and private conversations that I will choose to keep private.
Nope. In fact, I didn't play Standard before the Valakut was the big thing with PTime rocking the house there, too. I think that has a lot to do with it - the Titans define my conception of Magic in a big way. I remember when people were clamoring about whether they should be reprinted in M12 or not, with a lot of people saying they really hated them being in Standard. I for one loved them in Standard, and was really glad to see them return. I really have no point of reference for "power creep" etc.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
So let me get this straight, you didn't play by the ban list before and you are upset with the new addition of PT?
Prime Time is exactly like Azusa in the sense that as soon as it hits, the removal barely matters because you've already shot ahead. Stupid argument.
But not every deck with green in it can effectively make use of Azusa - you have to go out of your way to be able to do so. Conversely, every deck with green in it can effectively make use of PTime - you'd almost have to go out of your way to be unable to do so.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Exactly, which is why this whole discussion is stupid. And this is coming from someone who ran PT with Cabal + Urborg/Vesuva for well over a year.
Anyway, since it's only a suggested ban list, you should let him play it... on the stipulation that the rest of you are allowed to use a reasonable banned card of your choice also. Griselbrand is reasonable, right?
For a few months you and the RC showed a real interest in testing kokusho, banning GB, and showing a willingness to make your list make sense. Unfortunately, by you made a celebratory decision like unbanning kokusho overshadowed over a divisive card. The arguement for banning PT forces you to ban Consecrated sphinx immediately. You need to ban hermit druid right now because legitimate uses don't matter anymore. You have to ban tooth and nail, it's a green stable like prime time and it gets old. You need to ban palinchron and dead eye navigator. All these cards have a overcentralizing effect on the game.
Players will just bribe and clone the next best thing no matter what you ban. So congrats, you made your list much less attractive because the RC's banning process doesn't make sense even with your revised vision. I personally believe a universal list is the best thing for this format, but I can't support a list that is run by a group that seems to have an axe to grind if something is played too much. It's been less than two days, and we're already asking what's next on your ban hammer list.
My play group was flipping out and we had to amend your list just to continue playing together. That's why you get monkey poo thrown at you every announcement, you feel like you're doing something good for the format, but you're just taking a dump in people's playgroups. If we get mad you just reply with "don't follow the banlist." You guys rule a format like kings but can avoid consequences. I love emrakul, I can understand the ban, GB, awesome sauce, but I understand the ban (my play group just unbanned him and house ruled a sorcery speed once a turn restriction... you know... a social contract), but PT? Please...
On a tangent, it appears that you lied to me about world fire. Where you said you would see how the card goes before banning it, but in your explanation, you didn't even test it you just banned it. That leads me to believe you already decided once it was spoiled. I really don't care about worldfire, but at the very least you appear dishonest, maybe you miss spoke, but that doesn't matter, you're the face of the format and you should be more careful with your words...
I'm thinking Yawgmoth's Bargain. And if you disagree, I'll get really angry and go on this board to complain, and my internet friends will back me up, and then I'll look really smart!
The RC only has power because people consciously choose to follow its banlist and if you want to ignore the RC then no one is going to stop you. People like you get upset because many players respect the RC's decisions and choose to use its banlist, which means that you don't get to play with those players if you choose to ignore the list. Well, get over it. If anyone in my play group tries to use Prime Time all of my decks are going to turn into turn 1 or 2 Time Vault + Voltaic Key combo or something similarly degenerate.