Wow, a lot of hate in here. I'm honestly surprised that you guys are that upset over the ban. I mean, he's good. Good enough to run in every green deck you build as some people have stated, but its not like he is an integral card in your deck. Your decks strategy isn't going to fall apart for losing him. Insert some other green goodstuff card and move on. A lot of my decks that run green also run black so I'm just going to run Kokusho in his place and not skip a beat.
It kind of is, if someone can now kill you before you can kill them.
If your play/deck building style is essentially one of "ignore what the other players are up to and just focus on assembling your wincon quicker than the other guy," then sure, you'll be in more trouble without Prime Time. But that mentality is not what EDH was built around.
EDH was designed as a casual, social game. In casual games, winning isn't the only goal. In social games, you want to interact with the other players, not race against them.
The mentality you describe is more or less the mentality that drives competitive formats, where THE goal - all that really matters - is who kills who first. There's nothing wrong with that mentality, but it isn't what EDH was designed around. The RC has been very clear about this, and this is explicitly stated in Sheldon's article from yesterday.
There's nothing to keep you and your group from playing EDH however you wish, and if everyone is cool with essentially playing a game of "who can combo out first" and is enjoying that, great. But that play style is, at the core, incompatible with the philosophy of the game as embodied in the banned list. As Sheldon said in the article, the needs of competitive MtG are not a factor given consideration by the RC, because they endorse the view that non-competitive approach is what makes EDH distinct from every other format.
@JWK: I think that's a large part of what makes EDH so great.
I don't like non interactive games. Combo's should be defended from disruption, not just raced out quicker. Turning dudes sideways does have a purity to it (though I'm far from someone who believes "its the only proper way to win"). Responding to threats and stirring up devious politics is so much greater than just winning the fastest.
I also like strange game states you can only get from unique and often poorly known cards. You don't get that when the meta game gets warped around a select few cards.
As a side note: while arguably still ban-worthy a nice side effect of a Ptitan ban is that Tooth and Nail is not going to hit play as quickly.
Prime Time was just too good, so good that it made it hard to pick non-green decks over green ones, not to mention that even if you played it fairly, with 6 lands, you could get 15 mana by next turn with black in your deck. A hard decision like banning a card everyone uses has to have some justification, and i think in this case, it does.
Anyone as mad about it as people from your playgroup should ask themselves ¿Where does the road lead if i just start ignoring bans? and ¿Am I gonna stop playing because i disagree with ONE card being banned?
I think most people that play magic love the game enough as to come around, just give them time, and DO respect the bans.
So has anyone actually TRIED to take out the titan yet and see a huge difference, or is everyone just complaining like the Griselbrand was banned?
It's been like 2 days, Let's hear some stories. Here's the thing though, if your story is basically I couldn't win quicker, then the RC is doing their job. Primeval titan just made green THAT much quicker at pulling ahead.
So has anyone actually TRIED to take out the titan yet and see a huge difference, or is everyone just complaining like the Griselbrand was banned?
It's been like 2 days, Let's hear some stories. Here's the thing though, if your story is basically I couldn't win quicker, then the RC is doing their job. Primeval titan just made green THAT much quicker at pulling ahead.
I can't really say what difference it has made since my new build contains a dozen cards still in the mail. But that itself should be telling since his ban is prompting me to change ~10 cards.
It sucks that a not-cheap to pick up card was banned. But players should be able to move him fairly easily since wizards unbanned Valakut; for that same reason get your scapeshifts now!
So has anyone actually TRIED to take out the titan yet and see a huge difference, or is everyone just complaining like the Griselbrand was banned?
It's been like 2 days, Let's hear some stories. Here's the thing though, if your story is basically I couldn't win quicker, then the RC is doing their job. Primeval titan just made green THAT much quicker at pulling ahead.
a few people in my group and i met up spontaneously for a few games today. honestly, none of us agreed with the primeval ban...but we went on without it in our decks. the games were defiantly more interesting/fun/fair or whatever phrase you want to use, but they did drag on a lot longer than we would have liked. all in all, from the games we played tonight..my opinion has been swayed from not happy with it, to indifferent about it. i still wish i could use him as he filled a role no other card could (i still do not think he warranted a ban), but i also miss EDH without him. its been so long, that i forgot what EDH was like before the titans.
So what I started to notice this format, it was right when ZEN came out, and primeval titan was like a 10-20 dollar card. I had an idea for a Mayael deck, but only putting in limited jank uncommons and random old cards from casual. I never thought that I would spend that much money on that card, or any card for that matter, since I was still in Uni, and 20 dollars is like a weeks worth of lunch if I plan things out.
Now that I work, it doesn't look that bad, but I don't think I've ever thought of it that useful. Sure, the lands have been better, but I'm now at the point where it's either 20 dollars goes to cardboard, or food. I don't run that card in any of my 2 green decks, and they don't really need it. A 1 shot for less usually works fine, sometimes a harrow can be helpful for the instant speed. My point is, if people can't find an answer, maybe that's the reason it's banned.
i support the RC decision; which means tweaking a few decks around and not knowing what to do with the other 4 primetimes i have from standard.
I told my group they have 2 weeks to find replacement, but can still use PT during that time. perhaps giving them an extension to find a replacement would help.
One of the other main guys in the group runs Prime Titan in every single one of his decks save for one, and that one is monoblack. He is absolutely furious over the ban and refuses to take the Titans out of his decks, saying the reason behind the ban is stupid, it dies to removal, can be countered, etc. You all know the usual routine.
I just think this is seriously going to hurt our playgroup, we don't get many opportunities to really get together to play nowadays, we're all close friends so we really can't exclude someone over something like this. I just don't like the idea of using house rules, especially because I know there are some people we play with, or random people we occasionally play with that obviously wouldn't be happy with it.
I was pissed when Griselbrand got banned. I'm pissed that Worldfire got banned, but I'm not gonna say "**** the RC, **** the banlist, I'm going to run them anyways".
I've tried explaining the reason behind the ban on Titan better, saying its an opportunity to try something new, that the fact that so many people have to make changes or reevaluate their decks because of the ban is a great example of why he needs to be on the list (even if I don't think that on a power-level basis he is THAT bad), and if he really isn't so bad that he needs to be banned, replacing him shouldn't be a big deal. Only to be met with more "**** the RC, **** Sheldon, etc." kinda comments.
My group had one guy upset and everyone else rejoice. One of my friends literally said "oh cool, now [ogrefoot] doesn't have to be a jerk to stay in the game", his comment was motivated by the fact that my decks were being built to break PT even though I don't play G, and I was also trying to attack mana-bases with extreme prejudice in order to unramp the rampers.
The guy that dissented was the one who's consistent good performance at the EDH table was driven by PT abuse.
To get your friend(s) to come around I would pose this as a challenge, make it look like PT was a crutch and that those guys need to learn how to play without it. Speaking from personal experience, my decks lost some steam when Tolarian Academy was banned, but you adapt.
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
One of my friends is not only pissed, he's actually legitimately upset about the ban. Like seriously, he played for 20 years and started ebaying all his cards. Luckily we stopped him from doing it, but seriously. RC and Sheldon, pro PR tip. If you're gonna do something that you know will piss off half your base then maybe you shouldn't do it or be more elegant... ahh forget it, i'm done talking elegance.
I talked with my play group and honestly, they hate prime time, they hate enablers like kiki jiki, and overall hate combo. After this decision, we decided to ignore the banlist after a few test games because we concluded that what the RC did simply allows slippery slope to occur. Last night, psycosis crawler was revived, stolen, cloned, etc.... So really, in our eyes, any card can warp a game (and that's not a bad thing either, it was hilarious).
What you really need to understand is this, if following the banlist will hurt your play group, don't do it. Simply stop following it or amend it.
If half the community is really pissed about this ban, then don't follow it. Go to play groups with it that follow the banlist and just side it out with something else if they don't want you to play it. We can argue all day about whether it was right or wrong, I believe it was a wrong decision and the best way to show that is to simply not follow it. Don't be afraid to post a list with prime time in it or open a thread talking about ways to handle prime time.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
If your play/deck building style is essentially one of "ignore what the other players are up to and just focus on assembling your wincon quicker than the other guy," then sure, you'll be in more trouble without Prime Time. But that mentality is not what EDH was built around.
EDH was designed as a casual, social game. In casual games, winning isn't the only goal. In social games, you want to interact with the other players, not race against them.
The mentality you describe is more or less the mentality that drives competitive formats, where THE goal - all that really matters - is who kills who first. There's nothing wrong with that mentality, but it isn't what EDH was designed around. The RC has been very clear about this, and this is explicitly stated in Sheldon's article from yesterday.
There's nothing to keep you and your group from playing EDH however you wish, and if everyone is cool with essentially playing a game of "who can combo out first" and is enjoying that, great. But that play style is, at the core, incompatible with the philosophy of the game as embodied in the banned list. As Sheldon said in the article, the needs of competitive MtG are not a factor given consideration by the RC, because they endorse the view that non-competitive approach is what makes EDH distinct from every other format.
My perspective of this format is probably a bit warped by the fact that my only experience with it is this forum and my playgroup, which is comprised mostly of Legacy players who sleeve up their collections in singleton decks and play EDH like it's Legacy once a week. 95% of the decklists on this forum aren't posted asking how to make them more "fun," they're posted asking how to make them "better" (a.k.a. to make them more competitive - more capable of winning). I kind of assume that's representative of EDH everywhere.
If half the community is really pissed about this ban, then don't follow it. Go to play groups with it that follow the banlist and just side it out with something else if they don't want you to play it. We can argue all day about whether it was right or wrong, I believe it was a wrong decision and the best way to show that is to simply not follow it. Don't be afraid to post a list with prime time in it or open a thread talking about ways to handle prime time.
That the main problem I have with this ban.
Most of the time When they ban a card, there is always some crying and moaning, but overall people "understand" to a certain point why we need to ban a specific card.
With PT, there is a huge amount of people and more then half the community where PT WAS NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL!!!
Is PT a powerfull card? Absolutely!
Is it helping in any deck with green? No kidding...
Was he worthy of a ban? Absolutely not.
I am under the impression that they create this ban to stop a small group of individual in their metagame from complaining, because they don't want to find a way of dealing with him.
This community arge himself to be all about fun play and creativity, but yet there is a group of "competitive" players who do nothing more then copie decklist from the internet, pack their deck with powerfull spell and complain when there deck doesn't work anymore because "Everybody copy my PT so they have to ban it"...
Since we are on the subject of ban list, the PT banning is on the same page as the banning of Karakas, it's ban because people DO NOT WANT to play land destruction! And yet, they prefer to let the problem grow without doing anything until someone decide to take care of the problam by banning a card.
I defy you to let people play with Karakas and you to pack some basic LD, you will see that Karakas will lose it's power really fast and that PT end up being just a big trampler with a cool hability...
My perspective of this format is probably a bit warped by the fact that my only experience with it is this forum and my playgroup, which is comprised mostly of Legacy players who sleeve up their collections in singleton decks and play EDH like it's Legacy once a week. 95% of the decklists on this forum aren't posted asking how to make them more "fun," they're posted asking how to make them "better" (a.k.a. to make them more competitive - more capable of winning). I kind of assume that's representative of EDH everywhere.
BINGO!
You are dead on my friend!
And yet, this community choose there ban based on those ex-legacy player who want to win at all cost and don't care about how fun it can be.
Give it a year or two and EDH will become the next Legacy format, with overpower, combo hungry deck and moron player who don't care about making friend and just want to win by crushing your soul...
My perspective of this format is probably a bit warped by the fact that my only experience with it is this forum and my playgroup, which is comprised mostly of Legacy players who sleeve up their collections in singleton decks and play EDH like it's Legacy once a week. 95% of the decklists on this forum aren't posted asking how to make them more "fun," they're posted asking how to make them "better" (a.k.a. to make them more competitive - more capable of winning). I kind of assume that's representative of EDH everywhere.
Partially true. MaRo and the RC constantly stress that we the forum denizens are in fact the minority in casual Magic. Also, while the goal of every deck list posted is to make it better, unless they explicitly state "I want to win every game" or "I don't care about winning I just want to have fun", you can't infer a degree of competitiveness.
So has anyone actually TRIED to take out the titan yet and see a huge difference, or is everyone just complaining like the Griselbrand was banned?
It's been like 2 days, Let's hear some stories. Here's the thing though, if your story is basically I couldn't win quicker, then the RC is doing their job. Primeval titan just made green THAT much quicker at pulling ahead.
I took Primeval Titan out and won much quicker than I would have with him. I was putting together Wort, Raidmother when the ban came down so I replaced PT with Boundless Realms. I ramped into a turn 4 Wort, turn 5 conspired Boundless realms for the remaining 19 basics and proceeded to wreck the table with conspired X-spells. Prime Time would have only put me up +4 mana from Ancient Tomb and Temple of the False God but Boundless Realms conspired put me up enough to kill somebody the next turn and every turn after that.
So has anyone actually TRIED to take out the titan yet and see a huge difference, or is everyone just complaining like the Griselbrand was banned?
It's been like 2 days, Let's hear some stories. Here's the thing though, if your story is basically I couldn't win quicker, then the RC is doing their job. Primeval titan just made green THAT much quicker at pulling ahead.
No one cares about winning, not even the RC, they stated that it warped games. Sadly, I did test it, and consecrated sphinx and psycosis crawler started to warp our games. Basically, if there are theft or clone effects, the next powerful card will warp games.
To answer your question, there was no difference in how much faster we won so we put it back in and wrote off the ban.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
No one in my playgroup was happy about PT getting the axe, so we just decided to ignore the ban. Maybe we play EDH differently than most groups, but he was never that game warping in our meta.
Honestly, the fact that so many people are so unhappy about the ban might wind up being good for the format. People might actually start using house rules instead of just blindly following the RC's ban list.
EDIT: Not that I have anything against the RC. But they have stated on numerous occasions that they encourage people to use their own house rules if they want, and so far very few groups seem to have done that.
Honestly, the fact that so many people are so unhappy about the ban might wind up being good for the format. People might actually start using house rules instead of just blindly following the RC's ban list.
This. I think the main contribution of the List was to give people who play with strangers.
The RC has explicitly stated this is false or hermit druid/ad nausea/oath would ALL be banned.
I suspect that this will create a division in most communities where half the players ignore the ban and it breaks up plenty of playgroups. I doubt banning world fire (or other expected bans like grisslebanned) would cause the same level of social destruction.
We wholeheartedly support local groups making their own ban/unban decisions. That said, our support is not license for a single member to hold his group hostage over a single card or support an individual's right to grief his friends. It's about what the group decides. Friends don't give friends ultimatums, they work together to find a viable solution. If this single issue, this single card is so polarizing to a personal relationship, perhaps some review of that relationship is in order.
If this single issue, this single card is so polarizing to a personal relationship, perhaps some review of that relationship is in order.
This, totally. I had the same discussion with my playgroup yesterday and while there are a lot of them who disagreed with the banning, it is not really a good idea to get worked up over, you know, a card game.
I mean, personally, I disagree with the actual rationale of the banning (but that is the subject of another thread altogether) but I can get behind the indirect implication of the banning (i.e. shaking up the format a little). I just wish that the banning wouldn't be as "permanent" and the hopes for its unbanning is still up in the air
I am under the impression that they create this ban to stop a small group of individual in their metagame from complaining, because they don't want to find a way of dealing with him.
Pretty sure that every member of the RC holds enough sway in their local group that they could walk into their LGS one day and say, "You know what, let's house ban <insert any card, no matter how absurd it may be>", and everyone in the group would do it. The fact that so many people really think the RC would shape a WORLDWIDE banned list based off of their personal preferences in a LGS shows how closed-minded they are and unable to look at the big picture.
Since we are on the subject of ban list, the PT banning is on the same page as the banning of Karakas, it's ban because people DO NOT WANT to play land destruction!
When did people stop playing Strip Mine? I must have missed that memo. Karakas is banned because of the "Interacts Badly With the Structure of Commander" guideline.
Stopped by the store last night to see what everyone thought about it. Many weren't even aware. So for last night, we still allowed Prime Time. Going forward, I think the consensus is "you can keep it if you want to for now, and we'll keep an open discussion about it." We also decided that if a new\unknown player shows up, make sure to mention it, get their opinion, and have a replacement card ready to go just in case.
I get the feeling over time we'll remove him. We just need time to adjust is all. That's what it feels like. It's more than just replacing him--a lot of other cards in decks often revolved around having Ptime in the stack. So there's some other changes to make too.
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If your play/deck building style is essentially one of "ignore what the other players are up to and just focus on assembling your wincon quicker than the other guy," then sure, you'll be in more trouble without Prime Time. But that mentality is not what EDH was built around.
EDH was designed as a casual, social game. In casual games, winning isn't the only goal. In social games, you want to interact with the other players, not race against them.
The mentality you describe is more or less the mentality that drives competitive formats, where THE goal - all that really matters - is who kills who first. There's nothing wrong with that mentality, but it isn't what EDH was designed around. The RC has been very clear about this, and this is explicitly stated in Sheldon's article from yesterday.
There's nothing to keep you and your group from playing EDH however you wish, and if everyone is cool with essentially playing a game of "who can combo out first" and is enjoying that, great. But that play style is, at the core, incompatible with the philosophy of the game as embodied in the banned list. As Sheldon said in the article, the needs of competitive MtG are not a factor given consideration by the RC, because they endorse the view that non-competitive approach is what makes EDH distinct from every other format.
I don't like non interactive games. Combo's should be defended from disruption, not just raced out quicker. Turning dudes sideways does have a purity to it (though I'm far from someone who believes "its the only proper way to win"). Responding to threats and stirring up devious politics is so much greater than just winning the fastest.
I also like strange game states you can only get from unique and often poorly known cards. You don't get that when the meta game gets warped around a select few cards.
As a side note: while arguably still ban-worthy a nice side effect of a Ptitan ban is that Tooth and Nail is not going to hit play as quickly.
Anyone as mad about it as people from your playgroup should ask themselves ¿Where does the road lead if i just start ignoring bans? and ¿Am I gonna stop playing because i disagree with ONE card being banned?
I think most people that play magic love the game enough as to come around, just give them time, and DO respect the bans.
It's been like 2 days, Let's hear some stories. Here's the thing though, if your story is basically I couldn't win quicker, then the RC is doing their job. Primeval titan just made green THAT much quicker at pulling ahead.
:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Kemba, Kostume
Ka...Oh god that's not a good alliteration.Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
It sucks that a not-cheap to pick up card was banned. But players should be able to move him fairly easily since wizards unbanned Valakut; for that same reason get your scapeshifts now!
a few people in my group and i met up spontaneously for a few games today. honestly, none of us agreed with the primeval ban...but we went on without it in our decks. the games were defiantly more interesting/fun/fair or whatever phrase you want to use, but they did drag on a lot longer than we would have liked. all in all, from the games we played tonight..my opinion has been swayed from not happy with it, to indifferent about it. i still wish i could use him as he filled a role no other card could (i still do not think he warranted a ban), but i also miss EDH without him. its been so long, that i forgot what EDH was like before the titans.
So what I started to notice this format, it was right when ZEN came out, and primeval titan was like a 10-20 dollar card. I had an idea for a Mayael deck, but only putting in limited jank uncommons and random old cards from casual. I never thought that I would spend that much money on that card, or any card for that matter, since I was still in Uni, and 20 dollars is like a weeks worth of lunch if I plan things out.
Now that I work, it doesn't look that bad, but I don't think I've ever thought of it that useful. Sure, the lands have been better, but I'm now at the point where it's either 20 dollars goes to cardboard, or food. I don't run that card in any of my 2 green decks, and they don't really need it. A 1 shot for less usually works fine, sometimes a harrow can be helpful for the instant speed. My point is, if people can't find an answer, maybe that's the reason it's banned.
Learn to adapt.
:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Kemba, Kostume
Ka...Oh god that's not a good alliteration.Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
I told my group they have 2 weeks to find replacement, but can still use PT during that time. perhaps giving them an extension to find a replacement would help.
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My group had one guy upset and everyone else rejoice. One of my friends literally said "oh cool, now [ogrefoot] doesn't have to be a jerk to stay in the game", his comment was motivated by the fact that my decks were being built to break PT even though I don't play G, and I was also trying to attack mana-bases with extreme prejudice in order to unramp the rampers.
The guy that dissented was the one who's consistent good performance at the EDH table was driven by PT abuse.
To get your friend(s) to come around I would pose this as a challenge, make it look like PT was a crutch and that those guys need to learn how to play without it. Speaking from personal experience, my decks lost some steam when Tolarian Academy was banned, but you adapt.
I talked with my play group and honestly, they hate prime time, they hate enablers like kiki jiki, and overall hate combo. After this decision, we decided to ignore the banlist after a few test games because we concluded that what the RC did simply allows slippery slope to occur. Last night, psycosis crawler was revived, stolen, cloned, etc.... So really, in our eyes, any card can warp a game (and that's not a bad thing either, it was hilarious).
What you really need to understand is this, if following the banlist will hurt your play group, don't do it. Simply stop following it or amend it.
If half the community is really pissed about this ban, then don't follow it. Go to play groups with it that follow the banlist and just side it out with something else if they don't want you to play it. We can argue all day about whether it was right or wrong, I believe it was a wrong decision and the best way to show that is to simply not follow it. Don't be afraid to post a list with prime time in it or open a thread talking about ways to handle prime time.
My perspective of this format is probably a bit warped by the fact that my only experience with it is this forum and my playgroup, which is comprised mostly of Legacy players who sleeve up their collections in singleton decks and play EDH like it's Legacy once a week. 95% of the decklists on this forum aren't posted asking how to make them more "fun," they're posted asking how to make them "better" (a.k.a. to make them more competitive - more capable of winning). I kind of assume that's representative of EDH everywhere.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
That the main problem I have with this ban.
Most of the time When they ban a card, there is always some crying and moaning, but overall people "understand" to a certain point why we need to ban a specific card.
With PT, there is a huge amount of people and more then half the community where PT WAS NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL!!!
Is PT a powerfull card? Absolutely!
Is it helping in any deck with green? No kidding...
Was he worthy of a ban? Absolutely not.
I am under the impression that they create this ban to stop a small group of individual in their metagame from complaining, because they don't want to find a way of dealing with him.
This community arge himself to be all about fun play and creativity, but yet there is a group of "competitive" players who do nothing more then copie decklist from the internet, pack their deck with powerfull spell and complain when there deck doesn't work anymore because "Everybody copy my PT so they have to ban it"...
Since we are on the subject of ban list, the PT banning is on the same page as the banning of Karakas, it's ban because people DO NOT WANT to play land destruction! And yet, they prefer to let the problem grow without doing anything until someone decide to take care of the problam by banning a card.
I defy you to let people play with Karakas and you to pack some basic LD, you will see that Karakas will lose it's power really fast and that PT end up being just a big trampler with a cool hability...
BINGO!
You are dead on my friend!
And yet, this community choose there ban based on those ex-legacy player who want to win at all cost and don't care about how fun it can be.
Give it a year or two and EDH will become the next Legacy format, with overpower, combo hungry deck and moron player who don't care about making friend and just want to win by crushing your soul...
Partially true. MaRo and the RC constantly stress that we the forum denizens are in fact the minority in casual Magic. Also, while the goal of every deck list posted is to make it better, unless they explicitly state "I want to win every game" or "I don't care about winning I just want to have fun", you can't infer a degree of competitiveness.
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I took Primeval Titan out and won much quicker than I would have with him. I was putting together Wort, Raidmother when the ban came down so I replaced PT with Boundless Realms. I ramped into a turn 4 Wort, turn 5 conspired Boundless realms for the remaining 19 basics and proceeded to wreck the table with conspired X-spells. Prime Time would have only put me up +4 mana from Ancient Tomb and Temple of the False God but Boundless Realms conspired put me up enough to kill somebody the next turn and every turn after that.
No one cares about winning, not even the RC, they stated that it warped games. Sadly, I did test it, and consecrated sphinx and psycosis crawler started to warp our games. Basically, if there are theft or clone effects, the next powerful card will warp games.
To answer your question, there was no difference in how much faster we won so we put it back in and wrote off the ban.
Honestly, the fact that so many people are so unhappy about the ban might wind up being good for the format. People might actually start using house rules instead of just blindly following the RC's ban list.
EDIT: Not that I have anything against the RC. But they have stated on numerous occasions that they encourage people to use their own house rules if they want, and so far very few groups seem to have done that.
This. I think the main contribution of the List was to give people who play with strangers.
Augustin, Rasputin, Bruna, Brago, Ojutai
The RC has explicitly stated this is false or hermit druid/ad nausea/oath would ALL be banned.
I suspect that this will create a division in most communities where half the players ignore the ban and it breaks up plenty of playgroups. I doubt banning world fire (or other expected bans like grisslebanned) would cause the same level of social destruction.
Wizards in relation to modern.
"The bannings will continue until attendance improves."
Not sure if trolling or just very stupid.:fry:
This, totally. I had the same discussion with my playgroup yesterday and while there are a lot of them who disagreed with the banning, it is not really a good idea to get worked up over, you know, a card game.
I mean, personally, I disagree with the actual rationale of the banning (but that is the subject of another thread altogether) but I can get behind the indirect implication of the banning (i.e. shaking up the format a little). I just wish that the banning wouldn't be as "permanent" and the hopes for its unbanning is still up in the air
Pretty sure that every member of the RC holds enough sway in their local group that they could walk into their LGS one day and say, "You know what, let's house ban <insert any card, no matter how absurd it may be>", and everyone in the group would do it. The fact that so many people really think the RC would shape a WORLDWIDE banned list based off of their personal preferences in a LGS shows how closed-minded they are and unable to look at the big picture.
When did people stop playing Strip Mine? I must have missed that memo. Karakas is banned because of the "Interacts Badly With the Structure of Commander" guideline.
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However, I will be respecting the banlist for the good of our group and the good of the game.
I get the feeling over time we'll remove him. We just need time to adjust is all. That's what it feels like. It's more than just replacing him--a lot of other cards in decks often revolved around having Ptime in the stack. So there's some other changes to make too.