A few cards that've been doing the job for me and my mono-red:
Mana Geyser. The more players the better, in a standard 4-man pod, by turn five (earliest you can cast without accel) it generally nets you AT LEAST Insurrection mana or twice what you paid. Later on, it can enable some strong plays and can fuel X-spells almost by itself.
Viashino Heretic. Not only is it repetitive artifact kill, but it also encourages you to just blow up the biggest one at EOT anyway to take a chunk out of someone's life.
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In the right deck I wont argue with you. However as a whole for red, Ablaze is by far the best version thanks to her mini wheel effect. Red as a whole doesn't have a ton of amazing spells to copy making Firebrand sort of tricky to make work out well.
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Haste. Hasty haste. Hasty McHasterson. All the haste. Haste. This card gives your dudes haste. Make the opponent do something about it. Get all up in their grill. Fast… with haste.
Red suffers from not having steady card draw. This card is godsend. This card should be in every EDH deck, but it should DEFINITELY be in your mono-red EDH deck. If it isn’t, you have failed as a builder of decks.
This is actually a quite difficult card to find if you don't buy stuff online. Those who have them won't trade them and stores don't get them in stock for the same reason.
These are my staples (apart from the ones mentioned in the OP) Goblin Matron - Tutor the third. Sure she only looks for Goblins, but Goblins are second only to equipment when it comes to utility, especially in mono-red
Vicious Shadows - This nifty enchantment has won me more games than I can remember. If the board is clogged up with tokens, this plus the singular R to spend for Blasphemous Act lead to glorious fireworks!
Into the Core - The main reason I like this as a staple is because it exiles all those pesky Indestructible artifacts which are way too rampant in my meta
In the right deck I wont argue with you. However as a whole for red, Ablaze is by far the best version thanks to her mini wheel effect. Red as a whole doesn't have a ton of amazing spells to copy making Firebrand sort of tricky to make work out well.
This.
That wheel effect makes Ablaze the top for mono-red.
Wrong. For starters, Ablaze's Wheel effect is just amazing. The fact that you can do it multiple times is super gravy. This is one of red's hands down best cards, especially monored, where you need the draw like crazy.
For a side-by-side comparison:
+1's: Ablaze wins here. Sure, you have to give up a card, but since you're probably doing this so you can wheel more, it's no big deal. You should probably be running and digging into Squee anyways. Basically, 4 damage is super relevant, as it kills all kinds of things like Zur, Seedborn Muse, Azusa, Azami, Arcum, basically every high tier general besides Sharuum (who you don't necessarily want to kill anyways). 1 damage is basically irrelevant - if it was two it'd at least kill useful things, but it doesn't.
-2's: Ablaze wins here too. Firebrand requires that you have a good spell that you cast at sorcery speed, and takes more than half of her starting loyalty. Ablaze gives you a miniature version of red's best card, and costs less than half of her starting loyalty.
Ults: realistically, neither will ever hit this. Firebrand's is harder to hit because she needs to go up more, and the result is pretty underwhelming, as six damage is not all that much in this format. Ablaze at least can do some pretty spectacular things. The only time I've ever used it my graveyard consisted of Wake of Destruction, Reverberate, Warp World, and resulted me setting everyone else to like 3 permanents and then WWing.
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Wrong. For starters, Ablaze's Wheel effect is just amazing. The fact that you can do it multiple times is super gravy. This is one of red's hands down best cards, especially monored, where you need the draw like crazy.
I disagree with you for the plus one and minus two abilities. Ablaze's +1 is just bad. If you can afford to discard a red card in a mono red deck for just 4 damage your doing it wrong imo. Red has very few ways to get stuff back from the graveyard. Past in Flames, Recoup, and Ablaze herself are the only ones that come to mind. If I were to look through my deck and find cards that I would be willing to discard for 4 damage I would probably replace them with something better. Firebrand's +1 isn't really pertinent, but at least its not harmful. Also not as likely to piss another player off.
As for the -2 abilities copying an instant or sorcery can have way more impact on a game than a crippled wheel effect. There are plenty of good copy targets. For example Chaos Warp, Burning Wish, Gamble, Grab the Reins and friends or even better Fireball and friends. Whats more awesome than taking out two players with one Fireball. I won't deny that red can use some help with card draw, but look at it this way. You use Ablaze's -2 at a table of 4 including yourself. Lets assume you do this with an empty hand for maximum effect. Your opponents discard their hands. Then you draw 3 cards and your opponents draw 9. That is a disadvantage of 6 cards. Yeah yeah, I know, your opponents discarded their hands making the whole thing worthwhile but now you have 3 cards to deal with 3 angry players who have 3 cards each, and if Ablaze lives to see another turn I would be highly surprised. You also have to consider the fact that 3 of the 5 colors can actively abuse their graveyard so you may not be setting them as far back as you think.
Ults: I can't really disagree with you here. While Ablaze's ult is world's better than Firebrand's, if you get either of them to ult you were going to win anyway.
so overall, copy an instant/sorcery>wheel - 4 cards, and you can't assume they are going to last longer than one turn so the fact that Ablaze's +1 is bad is kinda pointless. It comes down 4 mana copy or 6 mana wheel. Just my opinion.
I'm surprised people like Wheel of Fortune this much. Personally, I think it's borderline unplayable. There are a lot of decks out there, specifically green ramp decks, that I do not want to give a free 7 cards to. Not to mention that often across the board, you will give your opponents more cards then you will draw yourself. That doesn't sound good to me, let alone make it a staple card.
You're going to run out of gas pretty quick and be staying on empty in mono-red if you don't like Wheel effects. I disagree that you're likely to give your opponents more cards than you draw yourself. Many times I'm able to cast Wheel of Fortune and leave myself with 0 cards in hand and draw a fresh 7, while my opponents are discarding 5-7 cards and netting 0-2 out of it. Anywho, YMMV, but I think Wheel effects are great if not outright necessary in mono-red.
Most players attempt to pace themselves somewhat. Wheel effects let you burn out your hand quickly and refresh it when opponents have more cards than you do. It gives you an advantage over the blue and black players who might be drawing full hands and tutoring into brokenness all the time as you just take away that advantage from them and set everyone back up.
Obviously they have their moments when they are amazing and moments when they suck. Overall though, there just isn't a lot of options for draw in red and it draws a lot of cards for very little mana.
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I disagree with you for the plus one and minus two abilities. Ablaze's +1 is just bad. If you can afford to discard a red card in a mono red deck for just 4 damage your doing it wrong imo. Red has very few ways to get stuff back from the graveyard. Past in Flames, Recoup, and Ablaze herself are the only ones that come to mind. If I were to look through my deck and find cards that I would be willing to discard for 4 damage I would probably replace them with something better. Firebrand's +1 isn't really pertinent, but at least its not harmful. Also not as likely to piss another player off.
As for the -2 abilities copying an instant or sorcery can have way more impact on a game than a crippled wheel effect. There are plenty of good copy targets. For example Chaos Warp, Burning Wish, Gamble, Grab the Reins and friends or even better Fireball and friends. Whats more awesome than taking out two players with one Fireball. I won't deny that red can use some help with card draw, but look at it this way. You use Ablaze's -2 at a table of 4 including yourself. Lets assume you do this with an empty hand for maximum effect. Your opponents discard their hands. Then you draw 3 cards and your opponents draw 9. That is a disadvantage of 6 cards. Yeah yeah, I know, your opponents discarded their hands making the whole thing worthwhile but now you have 3 cards to deal with 3 angry players who have 3 cards each, and if Ablaze lives to see another turn I would be highly surprised. You also have to consider the fact that 3 of the 5 colors can actively abuse their graveyard so you may not be setting them as far back as you think.
Ults: I can't really disagree with you here. While Ablaze's ult is world's better than Firebrand's, if you get either of them to ult you were going to win anyway.
so overall, copy an instant/sorcery>wheel - 4 cards, and you can't assume they are going to last longer than one turn so the fact that Ablaze's +1 is bad is kinda pointless. It comes down 4 mana copy or 6 mana wheel. Just my opinion.
Actually, Ablaze's +1 is pretty decent removal for red. It takes out almost every tech creature and as far as damage goes it can out race Valakut (with a huge drawback). But i think the reason this +1 wins is because of Squee and it's synergy with it's Ult.
Red needs draw and Ablaze's -2 gives some draw and hand disruption for your opponent. The disruption is what i thing gives Ablaze the edge, solely because building that sculpted hand is what so many people try to do in EDH.
Ablaze paired with any mass LD, such as obliterate, has got to be her most dangerous use. If they rebuild, then she blows the board again. If they don't rebuild, then she just kills them.
Actually, Ablaze's +1 is pretty decent removal for red. It takes out almost every tech creature and as far as damage goes it can out race Valakut (with a huge drawback). But i think the reason this +1 wins is because of Squee and it's synergy with it's Ult.
Red needs draw and Ablaze's -2 gives some draw and hand disruption for your opponent. The disruption is what i thing gives Ablaze the edge, solely because building that sculpted hand is what so many people try to do in EDH.
Ablaze paired with any mass LD, such as obliterate, has got to be her most dangerous use. If they rebuild, then she blows the board again. If they don't rebuild, then she just kills them.
I didn't really think of squee, but I won't run him just because he has synergy with one planeswalker in my deck. We are talking about commander here right? The whole two cards out of 99 thing, especially since red only has one tutor that can get both of them. While 4 damage is clearly enough to kill lots of tech creatrues I still hold that the red card you would have to discard should be put to better use.
Red does need draw, and hand disruption is good, which is why I run both Chandras in my mono red(actually I run all three). I still think that copy is better for commander; even in mono red.
Again Ablaze's ult is better. I've never disputed that, but if your opponents can't stop her from going off they probably didn't have much of a chance in the first place.
I'm surprised people like Wheel of Fortune this much. Personally, I think it's borderline unplayable. There are a lot of decks out there, specifically green ramp decks, that I do not want to give a free 7 cards to. Not to mention that often across the board, you will give your opponents more cards then you will draw yourself. That doesn't sound good to me, let alone make it a staple card.
By the same token that is not optimal to give the ramp player 7 cards, it is probably worse to let the B/x/x control deck keep the card they just tutored for. Also since we are talking about mono red wheel refills your and which tends to empty quickly.
I didn't really think of squee, but I won't run him just because he has synergy with one planeswalker in my deck. We are talking about commander here right? The whole two cards out of 99 thing, especially since red only has one tutor that can get both of them. While 4 damage is clearly enough to kill lots of tech creatrues I still hold that the red card you would have to discard should be put to better use.
Red does need draw, and hand disruption is good, which is why I run both Chandras in my mono red(actually I run all three). I still think that copy is better for commander; even in mono red.
Again Ablaze's ult is better. I've never disputed that, but if your opponents can't stop her from going off they probably didn't have much of a chance in the first place.
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Wild Guess, Faithless Looting, and Dangerous wager all benefit from squee and if you play gamble, he just might get tossed. and at the very least can chump block every turn or be equipped. He is an auto include in every mono red to me Esepcially since Matron can tutor him up
I wasn't trying to start a war and say these cards "HAVE TO GO IN YOUR MONO-RED DECK." I was basically trying to make a reference for myself from experiences I have had playing red and I thought I would share with you all. This is more to be a list that if you are building a mono-red EDH deck and add any of these cards, they would surely help... I was not intending to say "get these 10 cards then build your deck."
Anyway, who the hell am I to tell you how to build your deck.
Well, you say that, but then you also say things like:
Red suffers from not having steady card draw. This card is godsend. This card should be in every EDH deck, but it should DEFINITELY be in your mono-red EDH deck. If it isn’t, you have failed as a builder of decks.
Sol Ring should have been the first card in your deck… you know this.
I would like to see a logical argument for how Mind's Eye fits all deck themes and/or general themes without just saying they're so good you have to. How does a mono green with say a druid/elf/shaman general with connected themes justify a Sol Ring or any other broken artifact mana rock thrown in just for the sake of power level.
The point is, when you use phrases like 'should be in every EDH', it shows a disconnect from the roots of EDH, which is theme and uniqueness; in favor of blandness and power/meta gaming. I would despise playing with or against 2-3 mono red EDHs with different generals but most of the same cards otherwise. Suggestions are nice, as are collections of quality cards in a color, but the very idea of a card being considered 'required' in EDH even regardless of colors or general, is the antithesis of the format's core ideology.
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I know you put Koth as an honorable mention.....but man, I am never sad to see that guy in my hand. By himself he is a doom-engine, he hits his ult. pretty fast, and his -2 is just super neato.
Fissure, Cinder Cloud, and Into the Core are pretty staple for mono red, which has a lack of straight up kill spells. Exiling artifacts is always useful, too, and they're all instant speed, which is awesome.
I think people are realizing that there is more than one way to build a mono red deck. That means that there really aren't many cards that should be in every mono red deck. Also people play against different decks piloted by different people.
I would really only say that Koth and sol ring are staples. Unless your deck has a ton of non-basics Koth is all upside. He's the mono red version of Garruk.
Fissure, Cinder Cloud, and Into the Core are pretty staple for mono red, which has a lack of straight up kill spells. Exiling artifacts is always useful, too, and they're all instant speed, which is awesome.
Aftershock is better than both the removal spells you named and into the core has some stiff competition in the artifact removal slot.
how in the world are these undisputed must haves in red?
If you can afford to discard a red card in a mono red deck for just 4 damage your doing it wrong imo. Red has very few ways to get stuff back from the graveyard. Past in Flames, Recoup, and Ablaze herself are the only ones that come to mind.
I didn't really think of squee, but I won't run him just because he has synergy with one planeswalker in my deck. We are talking about commander here right? The whole two cards out of 99 thing, especially since red only has one tutor that can get both of them. While 4 damage is clearly enough to kill lots of tech creatrues I still hold that the red card you would have to discard should be put to better use.
But... most of red's card draw (that's actually red, not artifact) involves discarding things. Squee is amazing. There are more recursion cards in red than you give credit to, as well, Angerwants to be in the graveyard, and there are always situational cards that you can end up pitching for value.
And those are just the (red) cards that I actually run in my mono-red deck that I can recur in some fashion after discarding them to Chandra Ablaze's +1. I've got stuff I can get value out of without recurring (Anger, stuff with madness), and I've got colorless recursion sources as well.
Admittedly, my mono-red deck is Jaya Ballard, and I'm more heavily focused on making my discards not hurt than most decks (hell, I'm actually running Tibalt), but the point is there.
look at it this way. You use Ablaze's -2 at a table of 4 including yourself. Lets assume you do this with an empty hand for maximum effect. Your opponents discard their hands. Then you draw 3 cards and your opponents draw 9. That is a disadvantage of 6 cards.
Except it's not. You can't count that way in FFA. That would be true if you were playing 3v1, but you're playing 1v1v1v1.
Aftershock is better than both the removal spells you named and into the core has some stiff competition in the artifact removal slot.
how in the world are these undisputed must haves in red?
Aftershock is indeed a fantastic card, but it's also Sorcery speed. There are times when you need to kill a creature the moment you see it or it will cause problems.
How are the cards undisputed in my mind? Solid, instant speed, non-damage based removal in mono-red with zero drawbacks beyond a premium price.
Into the Core is simply amazing. It's a two for one instant speed exile for artifacts. Exile being the keyword there.
Aftershock is indeed a fantastic card, but it's also Sorcery speed. There are times when you need to kill a creature the moment you see it or it will cause problems.
How are the cards undisputed in my mind? Solid, instant speed, non-damage based removal in mono-red with zero drawbacks beyond a premium price.
Into the Core is simply amazing. It's a two for one instant speed exile for artifacts. Exile being the keyword there.
I'd be willing to bet the barn you haven't played much mono red.
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Mana Geyser. The more players the better, in a standard 4-man pod, by turn five (earliest you can cast without accel) it generally nets you AT LEAST Insurrection mana or twice what you paid. Later on, it can enable some strong plays and can fuel X-spells almost by itself.
Viashino Heretic. Not only is it repetitive artifact kill, but it also encourages you to just blow up the biggest one at EOT anyway to take a chunk out of someone's life.
Shivan Harvest. Sac outlet, destroys unwanted ridiculous lands.
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In the right deck I wont argue with you. However as a whole for red, Ablaze is by far the best version thanks to her mini wheel effect. Red as a whole doesn't have a ton of amazing spells to copy making Firebrand sort of tricky to make work out well.
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I couldn't stop laughing at first.
This is actually a quite difficult card to find if you don't buy stuff online. Those who have them won't trade them and stores don't get them in stock for the same reason.
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Goblin Matron - Tutor the third. Sure she only looks for Goblins, but Goblins are second only to equipment when it comes to utility, especially in mono-red
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Into the Core - The main reason I like this as a staple is because it exiles all those pesky Indestructible artifacts which are way too rampant in my meta
This.
That wheel effect makes Ablaze the top for mono-red.
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Wrong. For starters, Ablaze's Wheel effect is just amazing. The fact that you can do it multiple times is super gravy. This is one of red's hands down best cards, especially monored, where you need the draw like crazy.
For a side-by-side comparison:
+1's: Ablaze wins here. Sure, you have to give up a card, but since you're probably doing this so you can wheel more, it's no big deal. You should probably be running and digging into Squee anyways. Basically, 4 damage is super relevant, as it kills all kinds of things like Zur, Seedborn Muse, Azusa, Azami, Arcum, basically every high tier general besides Sharuum (who you don't necessarily want to kill anyways). 1 damage is basically irrelevant - if it was two it'd at least kill useful things, but it doesn't.
-2's: Ablaze wins here too. Firebrand requires that you have a good spell that you cast at sorcery speed, and takes more than half of her starting loyalty. Ablaze gives you a miniature version of red's best card, and costs less than half of her starting loyalty.
Ults: realistically, neither will ever hit this. Firebrand's is harder to hit because she needs to go up more, and the result is pretty underwhelming, as six damage is not all that much in this format. Ablaze at least can do some pretty spectacular things. The only time I've ever used it my graveyard consisted of Wake of Destruction, Reverberate, Warp World, and resulted me setting everyone else to like 3 permanents and then WWing.
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I disagree with you for the plus one and minus two abilities. Ablaze's +1 is just bad. If you can afford to discard a red card in a mono red deck for just 4 damage your doing it wrong imo. Red has very few ways to get stuff back from the graveyard. Past in Flames, Recoup, and Ablaze herself are the only ones that come to mind. If I were to look through my deck and find cards that I would be willing to discard for 4 damage I would probably replace them with something better. Firebrand's +1 isn't really pertinent, but at least its not harmful. Also not as likely to piss another player off.
As for the -2 abilities copying an instant or sorcery can have way more impact on a game than a crippled wheel effect. There are plenty of good copy targets. For example Chaos Warp, Burning Wish, Gamble, Grab the Reins and friends or even better Fireball and friends. Whats more awesome than taking out two players with one Fireball. I won't deny that red can use some help with card draw, but look at it this way. You use Ablaze's -2 at a table of 4 including yourself. Lets assume you do this with an empty hand for maximum effect. Your opponents discard their hands. Then you draw 3 cards and your opponents draw 9. That is a disadvantage of 6 cards. Yeah yeah, I know, your opponents discarded their hands making the whole thing worthwhile but now you have 3 cards to deal with 3 angry players who have 3 cards each, and if Ablaze lives to see another turn I would be highly surprised. You also have to consider the fact that 3 of the 5 colors can actively abuse their graveyard so you may not be setting them as far back as you think.
Ults: I can't really disagree with you here. While Ablaze's ult is world's better than Firebrand's, if you get either of them to ult you were going to win anyway.
so overall, copy an instant/sorcery>wheel - 4 cards, and you can't assume they are going to last longer than one turn so the fact that Ablaze's +1 is bad is kinda pointless. It comes down 4 mana copy or 6 mana wheel. Just my opinion.
You're going to run out of gas pretty quick and be staying on empty in mono-red if you don't like Wheel effects. I disagree that you're likely to give your opponents more cards than you draw yourself. Many times I'm able to cast Wheel of Fortune and leave myself with 0 cards in hand and draw a fresh 7, while my opponents are discarding 5-7 cards and netting 0-2 out of it. Anywho, YMMV, but I think Wheel effects are great if not outright necessary in mono-red.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Obviously they have their moments when they are amazing and moments when they suck. Overall though, there just isn't a lot of options for draw in red and it draws a lot of cards for very little mana.
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Actually, Ablaze's +1 is pretty decent removal for red. It takes out almost every tech creature and as far as damage goes it can out race Valakut (with a huge drawback). But i think the reason this +1 wins is because of Squee and it's synergy with it's Ult.
Red needs draw and Ablaze's -2 gives some draw and hand disruption for your opponent. The disruption is what i thing gives Ablaze the edge, solely because building that sculpted hand is what so many people try to do in EDH.
Ablaze paired with any mass LD, such as obliterate, has got to be her most dangerous use. If they rebuild, then she blows the board again. If they don't rebuild, then she just kills them.
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I didn't really think of squee, but I won't run him just because he has synergy with one planeswalker in my deck. We are talking about commander here right? The whole two cards out of 99 thing, especially since red only has one tutor that can get both of them. While 4 damage is clearly enough to kill lots of tech creatrues I still hold that the red card you would have to discard should be put to better use.
Red does need draw, and hand disruption is good, which is why I run both Chandras in my mono red(actually I run all three). I still think that copy is better for commander; even in mono red.
Again Ablaze's ult is better. I've never disputed that, but if your opponents can't stop her from going off they probably didn't have much of a chance in the first place.
By the same token that is not optimal to give the ramp player 7 cards, it is probably worse to let the B/x/x control deck keep the card they just tutored for. Also since we are talking about mono red wheel refills your and which tends to empty quickly.
Chandra Ablaza, mad prophet, rummaging goblin, wheel of fortune
Wild Guess, Faithless Looting, and Dangerous wager all benefit from squee and if you play gamble, he just might get tossed. and at the very least can chump block every turn or be equipped. He is an auto include in every mono red to me Esepcially since Matron can tutor him up
Well, you say that, but then you also say things like:
and
I would like to see a logical argument for how Mind's Eye fits all deck themes and/or general themes without just saying they're so good you have to. How does a mono green with say a druid/elf/shaman general with connected themes justify a Sol Ring or any other broken artifact mana rock thrown in just for the sake of power level.
The point is, when you use phrases like 'should be in every EDH', it shows a disconnect from the roots of EDH, which is theme and uniqueness; in favor of blandness and power/meta gaming. I would despise playing with or against 2-3 mono red EDHs with different generals but most of the same cards otherwise. Suggestions are nice, as are collections of quality cards in a color, but the very idea of a card being considered 'required' in EDH even regardless of colors or general, is the antithesis of the format's core ideology.
sol ring
gamble
chaos warp
wheel of fortune
any card beyond this is debatable.
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I would really only say that Koth and sol ring are staples. Unless your deck has a ton of non-basics Koth is all upside. He's the mono red version of Garruk.
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Aftershock is better than both the removal spells you named and into the core has some stiff competition in the artifact removal slot.
how in the world are these undisputed must haves in red?
And those are just the (red) cards that I actually run in my mono-red deck that I can recur in some fashion after discarding them to Chandra Ablaze's +1. I've got stuff I can get value out of without recurring (Anger, stuff with madness), and I've got colorless recursion sources as well.
Admittedly, my mono-red deck is Jaya Ballard, and I'm more heavily focused on making my discards not hurt than most decks (hell, I'm actually running Tibalt), but the point is there.
Taking three players out with one Comet Storm and no need to add a Planeswalker on top of things?
Except it's not. You can't count that way in FFA. That would be true if you were playing 3v1, but you're playing 1v1v1v1.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Aftershock is indeed a fantastic card, but it's also Sorcery speed. There are times when you need to kill a creature the moment you see it or it will cause problems.
How are the cards undisputed in my mind? Solid, instant speed, non-damage based removal in mono-red with zero drawbacks beyond a premium price.
Into the Core is simply amazing. It's a two for one instant speed exile for artifacts. Exile being the keyword there.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
I'd be willing to bet the barn you haven't played much mono red.