Clearly a card meant for Johnnies, Omniscience is potentially completely nuts. Probably at its best in UW where Academy Rector can put it directly into play for you. I'm testing it in Grimgrin as a fun way to just dump combos onto the board. I usually can get infinite mana pretty easily before I even hit 10, but the times I can't this might be fun to try out.
For the most part, I'm unimpressed with it. It gives you "infinite" mana, but does not allow you to use most of the best outlets for infinite mana (X Spells, Buyback Spells, or Activated abilities). It also doesn't let you cast your general for free. Is it really that powerful to be able to go from 10 mana to "Infinite" mana?
If you're playing mono-blue, the fastest way to get to 10 is with mana doublers like Caged Sun or Gauntlet of Might. With those though, you can get actual infinite mana by dropping Palinchron.
The more ramp and mana artifacts you include in your deck to speed you to 10, the worse you are off after you drop Omniscience, because those cards are effectively dead with it on the board.
Card kinda needs to get banned. Its an insane enabler thats extremely one sided.
It's approximately five billion mana to cast and doesn't end the game on its own. Tooth and Nail, Storm Herd, and Time Stretch aren't going to get banned any time soon, and they're miles better than this card.
It's really not that bad though. You have to cheat it into play, and even then, the most broken things to do with a lot of mana usually involve creature abilities or cards with X in the casting cost. You have to completely build your deck around it, and even then there are far more broken things you can do in EDH that require far less effort / luck.
And yeah, Tooth and Nail is worse.
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Card kinda needs to get banned. Its an insane enabler thats extremely one sided.
Palinchron isn't banned and that one is easier to abuse.
People are overreacting.
I've used it in Azami, and it was awesome.
It was exactely as awesome as you would want from a 10 mana Mythic.
Primal Surge has ended more games than this card will ever do, so did Genesis Wave.
And those two cards even help you with the drawing.
But this enchantment won't be much of a use when you don't have stuff to get cards in your hand.
This card is absolutely bonkers. However, I think it would be prudent to see how it interacts with the format before coming to conclusions. Though i understand why people might be intimidated by it. It's not exactly hard to get big mana or cheat things out in this format.
For the most part, I'm unimpressed with it. It gives you "infinite" mana, but does not allow you to use most of the best outlets for infinite mana (X Spells, Buyback Spells, or Activated abilities). It also doesn't let you cast your general for free. Is it really that powerful to be able to go from 10 mana to "Infinite" mana?
Sums up my feelings on it. I'll be running it in my mostly creatureless Riku, but that's more because it's on theme than because I'm impressed with the power level of the card. There are far more degenerate things you can do in this format once you hit 10 mana.
Maybe time will prove me wrong, but I really can't see this being a huge problem card.
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It's really good in jhoira and could be good in storm combo but outside of that it requires too much work to be really good. Tooth and nail wins you the game instantly for 1 mana more and only requires you to give up 3 deck slots. This requires you to heavily build around it for it to be most effective.
I think the most apt comparison though is dream halls which is good but isn't really broken in this format either even though it is much easier to cast and when you play draw spells like wheel effects and ad nauseam discarding 1 card isn't that much of a disadvantage anyway.
It's really good in jhoira and could be good in storm combo but outside of that it requires too much work to be really good. Tooth and nail wins you the game instantly for 1 mana more and only requires you to give up 3 deck slots. This requires you to heavily build around it for it to be most effective.
Tooth and Nail is 1 mana cheaper
But I agree with the rest.
It's approximately five billion mana to cast and doesn't end the game on its own. Tooth and Nail, Storm Herd, and Time Stretch aren't going to get banned any time soon, and they're miles better than this card.
Incorrect. Omniscience is incredible. You probably haven't played with it yet - and if you have and still aren't impressed, I question your deck building skill.
Maybe time will prove me wrong, but I really can't see this being a huge problem card.
Two real examples:
Game 1
I drop Omniscience. It survives a turn around the board. Next turn I draw Increasing Ambition, cast it for free. Tutor Diabolical Revelation, cast it for 13, search for 8. (I have two counterspells in hand in case someone tries to counter me) . Tutor Cast Through Time, Bribery, Acquire, Nicol Bolas planeswalker, Jace the mind sculptor, decree of annihilation, lilianna of the dark realms, time stretch. Cast them all for free, blow up the board and still have all my enchants, planeswalkers + my bribery and acquire coming in next turn + time stretch now and one again next turn.
Game 2
I blow up the board with decree, within 5 turns topdeck a land, omniscience, nicol bolas and vamp tutor. tutor for show and tell, two turns later cast show and tell. drop omniscience. drop nicol bolas, take the massacre wurm that was dropped by show and tell. Win.
Also, Omniscience doesn't stop you from paying additional costs. The only thing it stops is X, you have to hard cast those.
Tooth and nail wins you the game instantly
lol no. I've had plenty of games where insane Tooth and Nail combos were pulled out and I still won. The power of blue.
In game 1 nobody counters omniscience, increasing ambition and they let omniscience table for a turn. You deserve to win if you paid 10 mana for that.
In the second game just dropping kozilek / ulamog / any other bomb would have won you the game as well if you had show and telled that into play instead.
I drop Omniscience. It survives a turn around the board. Next turn I draw Increasing Ambition, cast it for free. Tutor Diabolical Revelation, cast it for 13, search for 8. (I have two counterspells in hand in case someone tries to counter me) . Tutor Cast Through Time, Bribery, Acquire, Nicol Bolas planeswalker, Jace the mind sculptor, decree of annihilation, lilianna of the dark realms, time stretch. Cast them all for free, blow up the board and still have all my enchants, planeswalkers + my bribery and acquire coming in next turn + time stretch now and one again next turn.
Game 2
I blow up the board with decree, within 5 turns topdeck a land, omniscience, nicol bolas and vamp tutor. tutor for show and tell, drop omniscience. drop nicol bolas, take the massacre wurm that was dropped by show and tell. scoop
Here's another real example. Ramp to 10, drop Omniscience. Sit because my deck is full of ramp and I just blew through my hand to drop a 10 cmc enchantment. Have the table focus on me because I can play spells for free, then have Omniscience removed.
I can come up with hypotheticals for most cards in which they win you the game. In your first example, you're both presupposing Omniscience isn't removed and you draw into a tutor, which your opponents allow you to cast with Omniscience on the board. After that, you're spending an additional 13 mana to set up a combo win. In your second scenario, you're drawing a series of specific cards after wrathing everything away with no plan. Neither of those says broken card to me.
Like I say, I'm withholding final judgment until I have a chance to play with and against the card, but my initial impression is that it's a big, flashy effect, not a broken one.
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can't you just pay the buyback when you cast a spell? It essentially makes Capsize a 3 mana bounce that you can spam instead of 6. I'm surprised Academy Rector hasn't jumped up in price yet because of this card. Also doesn't it make flashback free too?
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
In game 1 nobody counters omniscience, increasing ambition and they let omniscience table for a turn. You deserve to win if you paid 10 mana for that.
No one countered Omniscience because I waited until there was a good opportunity, everyone was infighting.
In the second game just dropping kozilek / ulamog / any other bomb would have won you the game as well if you had show and telled that into play instead.
You're claiming Omniscience isn't that good. I'm giving real examples of why you're wrong. No one argued that dropping an Eldrazi after Decree of Annihilation wouldn't end the game. Don't twist this.
Here's another real example. Ramp to 10, drop Omniscience. Sit because my deck is full of ramp and I just blew through my hand to drop a 10 cmc enchantment. Have the table focus on me because I can play spells for free, then have Omniscience removed.
If that's a real example, I suggest you put Omniscience in a deck that can't use it properly.
I can come up with hypotheticals for most cards in which they win you the game. In your first example, you're both presupposing Omniscience isn't removed and you draw into a tutor, which your opponents allow you to cast with Omniscience on the board. After that, you're spending an additional 13 mana to set up a combo win. In your second scenario, you're drawing a series of specific cards after wrathing everything away with no plan. Neither of those says broken card to me.
Woah buddy. Who mentioned hypothetical? As I said, my examples are real. Both games happened yesterday.
YOU are the one theorycrafting. I'm reporting actual, real life wins.
you're both presupposing Omniscience isn't removed
Comments like these show me that you don't even believe what you're saying. If Omniscience is just a win-more, big flashy effect, why are people removing it? Why do I deserve to win?
You say one thing but imply another. I have real wins due to this card, you have nothing but poor theorycafting and "older cards are better cards" attitudes.
My thoughts? Just cast it and you win the game. Cast this, time reversal, a few time walk effects, more draw, a bomb, draw, draw, draw.... then win at some point. There really is no reason to run time stretch over this, it does the same thing but better. I remember casting this, casting demonic tutor for a time spiral, drawing into a time walk and a draw card plus other stuff, the game ends when it resolves.
I can get it out turn 3-4 pretty easy. 5-6 on an average day.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
can't you just pay the buyback when you cast a spell? It essentially makes Capsize a 3 mana bounce that you can spam instead of 6. I'm surprised Academy Rector hasn't jumped up in price yet because of this card. Also doesn't it make flashback free too?
Does cutting the mana cost of Capsize in half really justify building a deck around a 10 drop enchantment? Any infinite mana combo makes Capsize win the game, wouldn't it be easier to just run one of the many blue has access to instead, since it would also allow you to abuse creature abilities, artifact abilities, and spells with casting cost X?
I'm not saying it's a bad card, and I do plan on testing it since I pulled one in a prerelease sealed pool today, but I just don't see the big deal. Infinite Mana combos are easy to stick for blue, and more useful as well.
Quite frankly, if you get to 13 mana while playing blue, you shouldn't need Omniscience in order to win the game.
Quite frankly, that's a baseless generalization. Sure, if I'm the only blue player at the table, your statement may hold some water. But if there's two other dudes running blue, you're just giving me ****.
Does cutting the mana cost of Capsize in half really justify building a deck around a 10 drop enchantment?
Omniscience doesn't require building around it. You can put it into any deck with decent drawing power and it virtually wins the game on its own.
Then again, I'm probably the only one here actually running it in real games.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Aluren as the nearest comparison. In the other thread, Dream Halls was brought up but you're basically playing double the mana to have the card be one-sided.
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If you're playing mono-blue, the fastest way to get to 10 is with mana doublers like Caged Sun or Gauntlet of Might. With those though, you can get actual infinite mana by dropping Palinchron.
The more ramp and mana artifacts you include in your deck to speed you to 10, the worse you are off after you drop Omniscience, because those cards are effectively dead with it on the board.
The best way to use it is probably going to be a UWG deck running Academy Rector and lots of green creature tutors to find it to sac early, and then blue cards that can draw huge numbers of cards - draw 7's like Windfall, Time Twister, Time Spiral, Time Reversal, Temporal Cascade, etc, and big draw spells like Recurring Insight, Myojin of Seeing Winds, etc.
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It's approximately five billion mana to cast and doesn't end the game on its own. Tooth and Nail, Storm Herd, and Time Stretch aren't going to get banned any time soon, and they're miles better than this card.
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I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
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And yeah, Tooth and Nail is worse.
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Palinchron isn't banned and that one is easier to abuse.
People are overreacting.
I've used it in Azami, and it was awesome.
It was exactely as awesome as you would want from a 10 mana Mythic.
Primal Surge has ended more games than this card will ever do, so did Genesis Wave.
And those two cards even help you with the drawing.
But this enchantment won't be much of a use when you don't have stuff to get cards in your hand.
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Annul is really good in EDH
Sums up my feelings on it. I'll be running it in my mostly creatureless Riku, but that's more because it's on theme than because I'm impressed with the power level of the card. There are far more degenerate things you can do in this format once you hit 10 mana.
Maybe time will prove me wrong, but I really can't see this being a huge problem card.
I think the most apt comparison though is dream halls which is good but isn't really broken in this format either even though it is much easier to cast and when you play draw spells like wheel effects and ad nauseam discarding 1 card isn't that much of a disadvantage anyway.
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Tooth and Nail is 1 mana cheaper
But I agree with the rest.
Incorrect. Omniscience is incredible. You probably haven't played with it yet - and if you have and still aren't impressed, I question your deck building skill.
Two real examples:
Game 1
I drop Omniscience. It survives a turn around the board. Next turn I draw Increasing Ambition, cast it for free. Tutor Diabolical Revelation, cast it for 13, search for 8. (I have two counterspells in hand in case someone tries to counter me) . Tutor Cast Through Time, Bribery, Acquire, Nicol Bolas planeswalker, Jace the mind sculptor, decree of annihilation, lilianna of the dark realms, time stretch. Cast them all for free, blow up the board and still have all my enchants, planeswalkers + my bribery and acquire coming in next turn + time stretch now and one again next turn.
Game 2
I blow up the board with decree, within 5 turns topdeck a land, omniscience, nicol bolas and vamp tutor. tutor for show and tell, two turns later cast show and tell. drop omniscience. drop nicol bolas, take the massacre wurm that was dropped by show and tell. Win.
Also, Omniscience doesn't stop you from paying additional costs. The only thing it stops is X, you have to hard cast those.
lol no. I've had plenty of games where insane Tooth and Nail combos were pulled out and I still won. The power of blue.
In the second game just dropping kozilek / ulamog / any other bomb would have won you the game as well if you had show and telled that into play instead.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Here's another real example. Ramp to 10, drop Omniscience. Sit because my deck is full of ramp and I just blew through my hand to drop a 10 cmc enchantment. Have the table focus on me because I can play spells for free, then have Omniscience removed.
I can come up with hypotheticals for most cards in which they win you the game. In your first example, you're both presupposing Omniscience isn't removed and you draw into a tutor, which your opponents allow you to cast with Omniscience on the board. After that, you're spending an additional 13 mana to set up a combo win. In your second scenario, you're drawing a series of specific cards after wrathing everything away with no plan. Neither of those says broken card to me.
Like I say, I'm withholding final judgment until I have a chance to play with and against the card, but my initial impression is that it's a big, flashy effect, not a broken one.
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No one countered Omniscience because I waited until there was a good opportunity, everyone was infighting.
You're claiming Omniscience isn't that good. I'm giving real examples of why you're wrong. No one argued that dropping an Eldrazi after Decree of Annihilation wouldn't end the game. Don't twist this.
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If that's a real example, I suggest you put Omniscience in a deck that can't use it properly.
Woah buddy. Who mentioned hypothetical? As I said, my examples are real. Both games happened yesterday.
YOU are the one theorycrafting. I'm reporting actual, real life wins.
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Comments like these show me that you don't even believe what you're saying. If Omniscience is just a win-more, big flashy effect, why are people removing it? Why do I deserve to win?
You say one thing but imply another. I have real wins due to this card, you have nothing but poor theorycafting and "older cards are better cards" attitudes.
I can get it out turn 3-4 pretty easy. 5-6 on an average day.
Run both
Quite frankly, if you get to 13 mana while playing blue, you shouldn't need Omniscience in order to win the game.
Does cutting the mana cost of Capsize in half really justify building a deck around a 10 drop enchantment? Any infinite mana combo makes Capsize win the game, wouldn't it be easier to just run one of the many blue has access to instead, since it would also allow you to abuse creature abilities, artifact abilities, and spells with casting cost X?
I'm not saying it's a bad card, and I do plan on testing it since I pulled one in a prerelease sealed pool today, but I just don't see the big deal. Infinite Mana combos are easy to stick for blue, and more useful as well.
Quite frankly, that's a baseless generalization. Sure, if I'm the only blue player at the table, your statement may hold some water. But if there's two other dudes running blue, you're just giving me ****.
Omniscience doesn't require building around it. You can put it into any deck with decent drawing power and it virtually wins the game on its own.
Then again, I'm probably the only one here actually running it in real games.
With things like Soul of the Harvest, Primordial Sage, Sages of the Anima, it's not hard to 'go off' with Omniscience.
We'll see if it stays 'fairly' used.
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