Hazezon is indeed brutal. I have a very powerful deck running him at the helm, and abusing the heck out of Earthcraft, Skullclamp, Gaea's Cradle, and Perilous Forays, amongst others. I rarely need to play him, but when I do he does a great job of sealing the deal. If they wrath in the turn he hits, they have no way to stop his sandwarriors. If they don't wrath, well, then the rest of my board probably leaves me in a good enough position to win.
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I've seen his list, and it's certainly a good list, and it does run all three of the cards I've mentioned, but I feel my point still stands: since Norin only meaningfully interacts with three of the cards in the deck, and none of those are cards that the deck can reliably tutor, wouldn't it be better served with very minor modifications and Godo, Kiki, or heck, even Ashling at the helm?
You named maybe less than half of the cards Norin is golden with, just look a little deeper
Some advantages Norin has over the competition:
No one sees him coming (until turn 1)
He can win under almost any board state.
He can win in any number of ways.
He's very hard to kill.
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch. After some minor testing, Thin Lyzzie is an absolute house. SuperSonik mentioned card advantage with Nin, but this is a similar deal. Absolutely terrifying.
Vhati il-Dal in an infect deck. Those colors have the best infect creatures and green gives black access to many great pump spells and more creature tutors along with ramp. Can be quite competitive in multiplayer. Vhati is great on offense with all the -1/-1 counters flying around, and on defense effectively shutting off the biggest threat.
Saffi Eriksdotter in any g/w deck. I don't have her as a general. but I'm sure she'd be ridiculous. I have her in my Chorus of the Conclave deck and she combos really well with sun titan.
MY friend has a Vhati il-Dal/Glissa the traitor deck. When Vhati is the general, I have to watch for night of soul's betrayal. It doesn't seem that impressive until you play someone with him as the general.
Vhati il-Dal in an infect deck. Those colors have the best infect creatures and green gives black access to many great pump spells and more creature tutors along with ramp. Can be quite competitive in multiplayer. Vhati is great on offense with all the -1/-1 counters flying around, and on defense effectively shutting off the biggest threat.
I actually just finished building this very deck. Vhati definitely is underrated. Sure he's not hyper-powered, but he can really control combat, and G/B is such a strong color combination. Vhati-infect is sure to be causing headaches soon!
Savra and Lyzolda are definitely not underrated. They're brutal if built half-way correctly. Really, almost any general that has a built in sac-outlet and/or has access to can Pact the board clean with relative ease.
One last thing I'd add is that I've seen a heck of a lot of mono-white generals/decks be underrated, just because it's mono-white. People seem to dismiss decks like Kemba, Kha Regent as being one-dimensional, and then they get Voltroned or swarmed, or both. All the colors of Magic can win.
I am surprised not just one, but two people threw Vhati il-Dal's name in the mix. I wrote a primer for him as such an amazing control deck and I figured most people didn't know/didn't care because they see him as just a "legendary hill giant". I must say others noticing him as well, is a pleasant surprise.
Also, to the naysayers about Red, I call bull on that. I have a red deck online(Godo, Bandit Warlord) that draws at least as many cards as a blue player...and has recursion aspects, well maybe not quite as good as black, but probably second only to black's recursion. Mono-R is strong, just too many people underestimate or mis-evaluate it.
Vhati il-Dal in an infect deck. Those colors have the best infect creatures and green gives black access to many great pump spells and more creature tutors along with ramp. Can be quite competitive in multiplayer. Vhati is great on offense with all the -1/-1 counters flying around, and on defense effectively shutting off the biggest threat.
I had one as well. Took it apart not due to ineffectiveness I just got bored running an infect-centric deck.
I personally think that Kira, Great Glass-Spinner should get a bit more love as a general. Its nice to only have to worry about the sweepers.
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The reason I mentioned Lyzolda, and not Savra (or Teysa, for that matter), is that everyone builds her BG (BW, you get the idea) cousin, and gives Lyzzie no love. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is up there as well. Trhat -2/-2 is really more powerful than most people give her (him? it?) credit for, and the +2/+2 is great for token swarms, something white is really good at.
Saffi Eriksdotter in any g/w deck. I don't have her as a general. but I'm sure she'd be ridiculous. I have her in my Chorus of the Conclave deck and she combos really well with sun titan.
I don't know about any of you, but Glissa, the Traitor seems to be severely underused in my area, and I very rarely see any decklists for her online. A 3/3 for 3CMC with First Strike and Deathtouch already makes for a 5-star creature, but then you add her ability to recur artifacts, and you've got a general that can lay some serious beatdown. She is insanely good/abusable.
I personally think that Kira, Great Glass-Spinner should get a bit more love as a general. Its nice to only have to worry about the sweepers.
This.
I haven't made a mono-blue deck, but if I did, I can imagine her being a tremendous General. Play out a few threats, and they now self-protect thanks to Kira. And if someone does try to board-wipe... well, its not like you don't have access to Counterspell, amirite?
And finally... Wydwen, The Biting Gale. She can be played in so many styles: Voltron, Permission, and Board Control. She herself pretty much says "4UB, Pay 1 life: Prevent all damage dealt by target creature that would deal damage to you this turn." Finally, she has access to the best card drawing/tutor colors.
Ragnar seems pretty boss. I'm going to try him out with a ton of combos that revolve around creatures. There aren't many that can protect creatures as well as him. Eight-and-a-Half-Tails protects creatures fairly well, but then you're in mono white, which limits the combos you can do.
If you're looking for a mono-white general that's interesting, look no further than General Jarkeld. He can do some crazy things with blocking that just messes up combat for your opponents. Not to mention that he can switch a non-flying creature to block a flying creature. Shenanigans abound when you mix in creatures with protection or even creatures with banding.
I've noticed that in GW, players almost always choose Teeg, Sisay, or Rhys as their Commander. But I always wanted to see someone use Saffi Eriksdotter. I tried making such a deck around her, but either I'm doing it wrong, or she just isn't that viable.
Toshiro Umesawa: I heard playing 6 kill spells a turn can be useful. I'm currently working on him and he is so fun!
Michiko Konda: Build it right and NO ONE will want to attack you.
Sun Quan, Lord of Wu: People just don't take monoblue aggro seriously.....Until I have a flying, horseriding, lifelinking Blightsteel Colossus with shroud and couple regular Blightsteel copies(oh how I love blue's fetish for artifacts!)
5 Color Cromat with tons of tutoring that doesn't reveal the card. Play a few classic playing cards, a couple Uno Draw 4s (Ancestral Recall eat your heart out), some basic Pokemon for defense, a Get Out of Jail Free card, and have assembling all five pieces of Exodia be your win condition. People will flip because EXODIA!? IMPOSSIBLE! NOBODY'S EVER BEEN ABLE TO SUMMON HIM!
I've noticed that in GW, players almost always choose Teeg, Sisay, or Rhys as their Commander. But I always wanted to see someone use Saffi Eriksdotter. I tried making such a deck around her, but either I'm doing it wrong, or she just isn't that viable.
She's actually pretty popular out here. I think that I have actually seen more Saffi decks than Teeg or Sisay.
Toshiro Umesawa: I heard playing 6 kill spells a turn can be useful. I'm currently working on him and he is so fun!
I love this guy, just haven't found enough spells to run, and to really abuse the kills. Glissa could make good work of this, but isn't in the color pie =/ Would love to see your deck list once it comes together.
Hazezon is indeed brutal. I have a very powerful deck running him at the helm, and abusing the heck out of Earthcraft, Skullclamp, Gaea's Cradle, and Perilous Forays, amongst others. I rarely need to play him, but when I do he does a great job of sealing the deal. If they wrath in the turn he hits, they have no way to stop his sandwarriors. If they don't wrath, well, then the rest of my board probably leaves me in a good enough position to win.
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You named maybe less than half of the cards Norin is golden with, just look a little deeper
Some advantages Norin has over the competition:
No one sees him coming (until turn 1)
He can win under almost any board state.
He can win in any number of ways.
He's very hard to kill.
Disadvantages:
Stifle sucks.
Trickbind sucks.
Voidslime sucks.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I've used him to great success online, and I'm definitely considering building the deck irl when I get a copy of him.
Angus Mackenzie was a blast to play, but he got tooken apart for specific reasons...
Adun Oakenshield I had at one point but I believe that he got swiped since I just can't happen to find him..
Much thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the siggy!
[EDH Decks]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WBG ~Teneb, the Harvester; Boardwipes FTW~ GBW
WUR ~Numot, the Devestator; Mid-Range Stax~ RUW
[EDH in Progress]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
URG ~Riku of Two Reflections; Clones and Copies~ GRU
WUB ~Sharuum, the Hegemon; Stax Control~ BUW
Generation 14: The first time you see this, add it to your sig, but add 1 to the number. Call it a social experiment.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
WBVish Kal, Blood ArbiterWB
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
UBGVorosh, the HunterUBG
WRGisela, Blade of GoldnightWR
WUGJenara, Asura of WarWUG
WBGTeneb, The HarvesterWBG
WUBRGHorde of NotionsWUBRG
MY friend has a Vhati il-Dal/Glissa the traitor deck. When Vhati is the general, I have to watch for night of soul's betrayal. It doesn't seem that impressive until you play someone with him as the general.
My Saffi deck
I actually just finished building this very deck. Vhati definitely is underrated. Sure he's not hyper-powered, but he can really control combat, and G/B is such a strong color combination. Vhati-infect is sure to be causing headaches soon!
Savra and Lyzolda are definitely not underrated. They're brutal if built half-way correctly. Really, almost any general that has a built in sac-outlet and/or has access to can Pact the board clean with relative ease.
One last thing I'd add is that I've seen a heck of a lot of mono-white generals/decks be underrated, just because it's mono-white. People seem to dismiss decks like Kemba, Kha Regent as being one-dimensional, and then they get Voltroned or swarmed, or both. All the colors of Magic can win.
Norin can win.
Magic rules.
Also, to the naysayers about Red, I call bull on that. I have a red deck online(Godo, Bandit Warlord) that draws at least as many cards as a blue player...and has recursion aspects, well maybe not quite as good as black, but probably second only to black's recursion. Mono-R is strong, just too many people underestimate or mis-evaluate it.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
*****es don't know 'bout my GB hermit druid dredge.
Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
I had one as well. Took it apart not due to ineffectiveness I just got bored running an infect-centric deck.
I personally think that Kira, Great Glass-Spinner should get a bit more love as a general. Its nice to only have to worry about the sweepers.
Would learn my licks with a bottle neck slide
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
And Reveillark. And Karmic Guide. And Adarkar Valkyrie if you throw a haste outlet into the mix.
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This.
I haven't made a mono-blue deck, but if I did, I can imagine her being a tremendous General. Play out a few threats, and they now self-protect thanks to Kira. And if someone does try to board-wipe... well, its not like you don't have access to Counterspell, amirite?
Isperia the Inscrutable is another general that really puts alot to the table but isn't really that feared until its engine really fires up. Hitting up both Reveillark and Karmic Guide and Glen Elendra Archmage 1v1 is going to cause some aggrevation to your opponent, moreso when you tutor up that Iona, Shield of Emeria.
And finally... Wydwen, The Biting Gale. She can be played in so many styles: Voltron, Permission, and Board Control. She herself pretty much says "4UB, Pay 1 life: Prevent all damage dealt by target creature that would deal damage to you this turn." Finally, she has access to the best card drawing/tutor colors.
Purely an odd and fun general because he is so plain and overall bad, but we have had some good times indeed.
WUBRGMy 12 Player EDH CubeWUBRG - Still working on expansion
If you're looking for a mono-white general that's interesting, look no further than General Jarkeld. He can do some crazy things with blocking that just messes up combat for your opponents. Not to mention that he can switch a non-flying creature to block a flying creature. Shenanigans abound when you mix in creatures with protection or even creatures with banding.
EDH Decks:
B Toshiro Umezawa B
W Mikaeus, the Lunarch W
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-Born BU
BGU The Mimeoplasm UGB
GUW Rubinia Soulsinger WUG
GRB Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper BRG
Michiko Konda: Build it right and NO ONE will want to attack you.
Sun Quan, Lord of Wu: People just don't take monoblue aggro seriously.....Until I have a flying, horseriding, lifelinking Blightsteel Colossus with shroud and couple regular Blightsteel copies(oh how I love blue's fetish for artifacts!)
"No."
"Seriously guys, my hair..."
She's actually pretty popular out here. I think that I have actually seen more Saffi decks than Teeg or Sisay.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I love this guy, just haven't found enough spells to run, and to really abuse the kills. Glissa could make good work of this, but isn't in the color pie =/ Would love to see your deck list once it comes together.
EDH Decks:
B Toshiro Umezawa B
W Mikaeus, the Lunarch W
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-Born BU
BGU The Mimeoplasm UGB
GUW Rubinia Soulsinger WUG
GRB Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper BRG