Sorry if something like this has been posted recently, but I did a search and didn't find anything too similar.
I'm looking for people's experiences with cards that might look innocuous or less-dangerous at first glance but turn out to be super dangerous with more information revealed. These are typically combo cards that don't look too offensive on their own, lesser-known cards, or just cards that aren't as immediately offensive as something like Consecrated Sphinx. Often, these cards produce small advantages by themselves, but get truly crazy when a few factors come together.
I know that sounds terribly ambiguous so here's some examples:
- Magosi, the Waterveil: I've never seen it in a deck without the capacity to go infinite.
- Cloudstone Curio: Some decks use it for combo purposes, others as a value engine for repeated ETB triggers, but it's never used 'fairly' per se.
- Thornbite Staff: Enables a lot of combos, and works pretty well with just about any tap activated ability anyway.
- Salvaging Station: I rarely see this card used in the intended four-card combo, but have seen many decks win on the back of the incremental advantages it creates.
- Hanna, Ship's Navigator: So much recurring of Hatching Plans and Stasis...
These kind of cards might set off alarm bells to some of you, but then you've likely experienced the worst of what they're capable of. They're cards that need to be prioritized far beyond face value, and generally require another card or two to get overly crazy. They're cards that less experienced players or players without first-hand knowledge might dismiss as being less threatening than some other more obvious powerful card on the board.
Another good qualifier for the card is whether is can be part of a sort of 'ambush' victory, where you get away with using it to a ridiculous advantage because your opponents have no knowledge of what it will do in conjunction with other cards. Just catching people off guard, that kind of thing.
I would like to hear about other people's cards that fit into this category; explaining why you feel a card should be categorized as disproportionately threatening would be appreciated as well, since it's totally possible I never will have seen the card used before.
I'm doing this as some research for a friend who is writing an article. I'll ensure proper credit is attributed to anybody who is listed in the article's final form. Thanks for sharing your Secret Tech!
My third deck my meta seems to rate everything as powerful as it is.
I would say cabal coffers is underrated in my meta too. That is, it's only rated as very good, when it tends to actually be the strongest permanent on the battlefield.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator isn't ignored. Everyone knows a deck built around her is going to do NASTY things. If they see her as our general, they're gonna save all their removal for her.
As far as my favorite? Flickerform, I run it in my Gaddock Teeg as a safety for any creatures that need it, and I down right abuse it with Acidic Slime!
As far as low profile cards that can get out of hand (keep in mind, this probably will only pertain to my meta which is rather casual) I've got these:
Scute Mob-This guy comes down turn 2-3 and people tend to forget he's there. Or they would rather save their spot removal on the primeval titan in the G/x players deck. Then the G/x player who is keeping the low profile eventually 1-shots someone with a 25/25 insect.
Lorescale Coatl-My girlfriend plays this in a Momir Vig deck. Its unassuming at first but, just like scute mob, people save their spot removal for the consecrated or the [/card=primeval titan]primeval[/card] thats gonna come down. Btw if consecrated sticks and the lorescale player can time reversal....
Underworld Dreams- This seems to be one of those cards that people shrug at until at the end of the night when I'm able to banefire or earthquake with just enough for the win.
EDIT: Psychic Surgery- Along the same lines as cosi trickster, when someone cracks a fetchland and you get to exile a bomb from their deck for 2 mana life is good. Also funny when somone uses lilliana's tutor ability and you exile the searched card because the forgot Psychic surgery was out.
These are all I have off the top of my head. If i think of more, Ill post again.
The biggest example I can think of this is Vicious Shadows.
Before EDH was popular, no one played this card or even noticed it. It's definitely a card literally "everybody" had to read when I played it. Then EDH caught on and the forums got a lot more hits. Thus, it's a staple now.
The reason why it was so innocent was because it was so bad that you couldn't even play it in limited. More than any other card, I think this card forced people to more intently look through spoilers of new sets looking for EDH specific cards.
Wound Reflection and Rage Reflection They don't seem like such a big deal. But really they mean people have half life against you. And if you get both out...
Repercussion Against does not seem to bad. Until the Earthquake hits. Furnace of Rath with it is x4 damage per player. So say someone has 4 creatures out, you earthquake for 3. The creatures take 6 each, so you take 12 per creature = 48 points off damage.
Magosi, the Waterveil seems like it would auto win if you had re-usable Proliferate.
Re-read the card. Part of the cost to get the extra turn is bouncing Magosi. Proliferate isn't enough to go infinite with it. Rings of Brighthearth, Amulet of Vigor, and two copies of Magosi can get you infinite turns, but two Magosis isn't possible without cloning (Vesuva, Liquimetal Coating + Phyrexian Metamorph).
Edit:
T1: Island, Amulet of Vigor
T2: Magosi, the Waterveil, add an eon counter to Magosi
T3: Skipped
T4: Island, Vesuva copying Magosi, Rings of Brighthearth
T5: Island, remove an eon counter & bounce Magosi, copy with Rings (2 extra turns), add an eon counter to Vesuva, play Magosi
T5.1: Skipped
T5.2: Remove and eon counter & bounce Vesuva, copy with Rings (2 extra turns), add an eon counter to Magosi, play Vesuva copying Magosi
T5.2.1: Skipped
T5.2.2: etc.
I'd say that alot of the flip cards with the exception of eryo has serious potential to be in this category. Especially cards that flip and changes card types, ie creature --> enchantment, etc, takes people off guard because the harmless creatures has no turned into a much bigger threat thats hard to deal with.
Also in my experience world queller has been insane. This is only so if you'd remember to play heavy politics with the card, ie promising to kill problemetic permenants on the board, pulling favors with people against the obvious threat, and even as far as making obvious bad plays for youself to convince the table that world queller is friendly. Because you can then use this time to set up a board ie martyr's bond, emeria sky ruin, reya dawnbringer, crucible of worlds,reveillark, karmic guide, etc in which world queller becomes an engine.
Like Ezreal says, the type-shifting permanents tend to fly under the radar. Opal Archangel, in my experience, is good for that.
Also, it isn't a permanent, but Mana Geyser is fantastic. People usually haven't heard of it and it's great for pulling through that huge late-game finishing combo. Once, it got me RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2UURRniv mizzet, the firemind endless fiery mind wheels of death 3WRjor kadeen, the prevailer weenies and extra combat forever 3RRzirilan of the claw dragons and damage doublers 4:SymRG::SymRG:wort, the raidmother burn is now EDH viable 2WUkangee, aerie keeper birds 1UBRjeleva, nephalia's scourge spellslinger/storm
here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
Tombstone Stairwell. People look at it and go "Okay, so it's a World Enchantment with Cumulative Upkeep and some kind of crappy symmetrical effect? Lol, okay".
There's no such thing as a low profile high threat card. Poor threat assessment, on the other hand, is very real and quite common.
Poor threat assessment does exist. But not every threat is easy to assess. The same cards don't always have the same level of impact in each game.
For examples, some cards like Vicious Shadows go un-noticed for awhile until it becomes a staple.
And then, some cards within the context of a particular game do why more work than usual. Stuff like Survival of the Fittest do the broken things they usually do every game, but sometimes utility cards like Relic of Progenitus do a lot more than usual whereas sometimes they do nothing.
Birthing Pod is often played in a creature toolbox deck as a way to get a ton of value from the little guys and turn small threats into huge ones for a very low cost while filling up the yard with goodies at the same time. My own pod gets ignored all the time until people realize how easy it is to go Yavimaya Elder/Oracle of Mul Daya (play the lands from Yavimaya Elder's yard trigger)/Acidic Slime or Genesis/Primeval Titan for a lousy 1 mana and 2 life per turn and be insanely ahead in board position. And since sacrificing the creature is part of the cost of the ability, there's no way an opponent can disrupt the chain in response to the activation. Not to mention it fills the graveyard for Genesis and other recursion shenanigans- I don't play much black but Living Death is downright bananas with it.
Poor threat assessment does exist. But not every threat is easy to assess. The same cards don't always have the same level of impact in each game.
For examples, some cards like Vicious Shadows go un-noticed for awhile until it becomes a staple.
And then, some cards within the context of a particular game do why more work than usual. Stuff like Survival of the Fittest do the broken things they usually do every game, but sometimes utility cards like Relic of Progenitus do a lot more than usual whereas sometimes they do nothing.
I don't understand how someone could have poor threat assessment.
Hmm, Relic/Tormod's Crypt totally destroys deck, I should kill right? I hope the "Spirit of EDH" argument doesn't excuse bad magic.
@Vicious Shadows: This card means I lose if it resolves, maybe I should counter spell.
Seriously, if a card says, "You lose all over it" Why not kill it or attempt to?
Ugh, to all those people who don't register threats unless their mystics or over $20. (I know people like this)
T1: Island, Amulet of Vigor
T2: Magosi, the Waterveil, add an eon counter to Magosi
T3: Skipped
T4: Island, Vesuva copying Magosi, Rings of Brighthearth
T5: Island, remove an eon counter & bounce Magosi, copy with Rings (2 extra turns), add an eon counter to Vesuva, play Magosi
T5.1: Skipped
T5.2: Remove and eon counter & bounce Vesuva, copy with Rings (2 extra turns), add an eon counter to Magosi, play Vesuva copying Magosi
T5.2.1: Skipped
T5.2.2: etc.
The above scenario doesn't work as fast as you described because you play 2 lands on turn four and five. Of course, this could be ignored if the first turn was "Island, Sol Ring, Amulet of Vigor".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mono-Colored EDH 1 Ulamog 1 ◊ W Avacyn W ◊ U Memnarch U◊ B Endrek B◊ R Urabrask R ◊ G YevaG
I don't understand how someone could have poor threat assessment.
Hmm, Relic/Tormod's Crypt totally destroys deck, I should kill right? I hope the "Spirit of EDH" argument doesn't excuse bad magic.
@Vicious Shadows: This card means I lose if it resolves, maybe I should counter spell.
Seriously, if a card says, "You lose all over it" Why not kill it or attempt to?
Ugh, to all those people who don't register threats unless their mystics or over $20. (I know people like this)
It's not whether something is expensive or not. How could you not understand the existence of poor threat assessment? It's a multiplayer game and good/bad players make mistakes all the time.
It's not whether something is expensive or not. How could you not understand the existence of poor threat assessment? It's a multiplayer game and good/bad players make mistakes all the time.
Do people play perfect magic?
I know it's there, but sometimes it's an easy choice. Perfect magic would be lame. I've had some of my opponents play bad magic and it just ruined the game. Example #1: A player cast Jokulhaups on turn 5 with a Gideon Jura out, 2 other blue players besides me with open mana didn't counter it...I said, "what the heck guys, seriously?" They replied, "I wanted to see if Gideon could kill us all"
I'm not playing 40 counters.dec, so I didn't have a counter spell. Someone at the table was playing Teferi, go go bad magic.
.....why didn't you want to see if Gideon could kill you all?
Gideon scares me. I've been in too many games where if he resolves, that player wins the game. I don't like rolling over like that, do you enjoy giving up on turn 5?
There's no such thing as a low profile high threat card. Poor threat assessment, on the other hand, is very real and quite common.
This is an oxymoron. High threat cards that consistently receive poor threat assessment are low profile, high threat cards. There are many categories of poor threat assessment, and this is a minor one, but it is a thing.
Ok, so lets have a class on threat assessment of some cards with pretty low profiles. I am playing Zedruu and I have in play a few mana rocks, lets say 7 lands, and the following cards: Propaganda Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker Bazaar Trader Mindmoil Words of Wind Puca's Mischief
So looking at the board, I really don't have much in the way of obvious threats. I have some detererrents in play, but nothing that says, OMG kill it now. What is really going on and what could I play in RUW that could pretty much finish the game, without going infinite? I don't think threat assessment is as obvious as people think.
On a side note, I was playing a game, and one guy is playing Riku, and he casts a Consecrated Sphinx copied, and it resolves. On my turn I cast a sphinx and it gets countered. I laugh. The guy with the counter said he couldn't allow three sphinx into play, but I guess the one guy drawing his library was ok......He did the same thing with P. Titan later in the game.......
I'm looking for people's experiences with cards that might look innocuous or less-dangerous at first glance but turn out to be super dangerous with more information revealed. These are typically combo cards that don't look too offensive on their own, lesser-known cards, or just cards that aren't as immediately offensive as something like Consecrated Sphinx. Often, these cards produce small advantages by themselves, but get truly crazy when a few factors come together.
I know that sounds terribly ambiguous so here's some examples:
- Magosi, the Waterveil: I've never seen it in a deck without the capacity to go infinite.
- Cloudstone Curio: Some decks use it for combo purposes, others as a value engine for repeated ETB triggers, but it's never used 'fairly' per se.
- Thornbite Staff: Enables a lot of combos, and works pretty well with just about any tap activated ability anyway.
- Salvaging Station: I rarely see this card used in the intended four-card combo, but have seen many decks win on the back of the incremental advantages it creates.
- Hanna, Ship's Navigator: So much recurring of Hatching Plans and Stasis...
These kind of cards might set off alarm bells to some of you, but then you've likely experienced the worst of what they're capable of. They're cards that need to be prioritized far beyond face value, and generally require another card or two to get overly crazy. They're cards that less experienced players or players without first-hand knowledge might dismiss as being less threatening than some other more obvious powerful card on the board.
Another good qualifier for the card is whether is can be part of a sort of 'ambush' victory, where you get away with using it to a ridiculous advantage because your opponents have no knowledge of what it will do in conjunction with other cards. Just catching people off guard, that kind of thing.
I would like to hear about other people's cards that fit into this category; explaining why you feel a card should be categorized as disproportionately threatening would be appreciated as well, since it's totally possible I never will have seen the card used before.
I'm doing this as some research for a friend who is writing an article. I'll ensure proper credit is attributed to anybody who is listed in the article's final form. Thanks for sharing your Secret Tech!
In my all creature deck the following cards don't receive as much attention as they should:
Coffin Queen
Forgotten Ancient
Spike Weaver
Willow Satyr
Winding Canyons
I also have an artifact deck (54 artifacts). Etherium Sculptor and Blinkmoth Urn are continually ignored.
My third deck my meta seems to rate everything as powerful as it is.
I would say cabal coffers is underrated in my meta too. That is, it's only rated as very good, when it tends to actually be the strongest permanent on the battlefield.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
He's well respected in my Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper deck. Best buds with Phyrexian Altar.
Cloudstone Curio is considered an Infinite combo piece and draws hate instantly.
Thornbite Staff gets ignored quite often though, I think that's because of it's 4 equip cost.
Salvaging Station I only see in Arcum Dagsson decks.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator isn't ignored. Everyone knows a deck built around her is going to do NASTY things. If they see her as our general, they're gonna save all their removal for her.
As far as my favorite? Flickerform, I run it in my Gaddock Teeg as a safety for any creatures that need it, and I down right abuse it with Acidic Slime!
Scute Mob-This guy comes down turn 2-3 and people tend to forget he's there. Or they would rather save their spot removal on the primeval titan in the G/x players deck. Then the G/x player who is keeping the low profile eventually 1-shots someone with a 25/25 insect.
Lorescale Coatl-My girlfriend plays this in a Momir Vig deck. Its unassuming at first but, just like scute mob, people save their spot removal for the consecrated or the [/card=primeval titan]primeval[/card] thats gonna come down. Btw if consecrated sticks and the lorescale player can time reversal....
Underworld Dreams- This seems to be one of those cards that people shrug at until at the end of the night when I'm able to banefire or earthquake with just enough for the win.
Cosi's Trickster- This card is along the same lines as the Lorescale Coatl, because no one ever searches their library in EDH
EDIT: Psychic Surgery- Along the same lines as cosi trickster, when someone cracks a fetchland and you get to exile a bomb from their deck for 2 mana life is good. Also funny when somone uses lilliana's tutor ability and you exile the searched card because the forgot Psychic surgery was out.
These are all I have off the top of my head. If i think of more, Ill post again.
RBUThraximundarUBRRUNiv-Mizzet, the FiremindUR
BWGhost Council of OrzhovaWBWUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW
WBRKaalia of the VastRBWGBSapling of ColfenorGB
Before EDH was popular, no one played this card or even noticed it. It's definitely a card literally "everybody" had to read when I played it. Then EDH caught on and the forums got a lot more hits. Thus, it's a staple now.
The reason why it was so innocent was because it was so bad that you couldn't even play it in limited. More than any other card, I think this card forced people to more intently look through spoilers of new sets looking for EDH specific cards.
Repercussion Against does not seem to bad. Until the Earthquake hits. Furnace of Rath with it is x4 damage per player. So say someone has 4 creatures out, you earthquake for 3. The creatures take 6 each, so you take 12 per creature = 48 points off damage.
Edit:
T1: Island, Amulet of Vigor
T2: Magosi, the Waterveil, add an eon counter to Magosi
T3: Skipped
T4: Island, Vesuva copying Magosi, Rings of Brighthearth
T5: Island, remove an eon counter & bounce Magosi, copy with Rings (2 extra turns), add an eon counter to Vesuva, play Magosi
T5.1: Skipped
T5.2: Remove and eon counter & bounce Vesuva, copy with Rings (2 extra turns), add an eon counter to Magosi, play Vesuva copying Magosi
T5.2.1: Skipped
T5.2.2: etc.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Also in my experience world queller has been insane. This is only so if you'd remember to play heavy politics with the card, ie promising to kill problemetic permenants on the board, pulling favors with people against the obvious threat, and even as far as making obvious bad plays for youself to convince the table that world queller is friendly. Because you can then use this time to set up a board ie martyr's bond, emeria sky ruin, reya dawnbringer, crucible of worlds,reveillark, karmic guide, etc in which world queller becomes an engine.
Also, it isn't a permanent, but Mana Geyser is fantastic. People usually haven't heard of it and it's great for pulling through that huge late-game finishing combo. Once, it got me RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
3WR jor kadeen, the prevailer weenies and extra combat forever
3RR zirilan of the claw dragons and damage doublers
4:SymRG::SymRG: wort, the raidmother burn is now EDH viable
2WU kangee, aerie keeper birds
1UBR jeleva, nephalia's scourge spellslinger/storm
here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
3UWR numot, the devastator of [the spirit of edh]
There are just so many cards that break it wide open. Extractor Demon, Vengeful Dead, Gempalm Polluter, Massacre Wurm, and Patron of the Nezumi all make it lethal incredibly quickly. Decree of Pain and Graveborn Muse can fill your hand in a heartbeat. Sangromancer, Deathgreeter, and Dross Harvester catapult your lifetotal up high. Any "sac a creature" effect like Phyrexian Altar can give you huge amounts of resources. Eldrazi Monument is one of my personal favorites, as the EOT effect "destroys" the Gravespawn, meaning yours stick around, as flying indestructible 3/3's that accumulate on each players' turn.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Poor threat assessment does exist. But not every threat is easy to assess. The same cards don't always have the same level of impact in each game.
For examples, some cards like Vicious Shadows go un-noticed for awhile until it becomes a staple.
And then, some cards within the context of a particular game do why more work than usual. Stuff like Survival of the Fittest do the broken things they usually do every game, but sometimes utility cards like Relic of Progenitus do a lot more than usual whereas sometimes they do nothing.
Birthing Pod is often played in a creature toolbox deck as a way to get a ton of value from the little guys and turn small threats into huge ones for a very low cost while filling up the yard with goodies at the same time. My own pod gets ignored all the time until people realize how easy it is to go Yavimaya Elder/Oracle of Mul Daya (play the lands from Yavimaya Elder's yard trigger)/Acidic Slime or Genesis/Primeval Titan for a lousy 1 mana and 2 life per turn and be insanely ahead in board position. And since sacrificing the creature is part of the cost of the ability, there's no way an opponent can disrupt the chain in response to the activation. Not to mention it fills the graveyard for Genesis and other recursion shenanigans- I don't play much black but Living Death is downright bananas with it.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I don't understand how someone could have poor threat assessment.
Hmm, Relic/Tormod's Crypt totally destroys deck, I should kill right? I hope the "Spirit of EDH" argument doesn't excuse bad magic.
@Vicious Shadows: This card means I lose if it resolves, maybe I should counter spell.
Seriously, if a card says, "You lose all over it" Why not kill it or attempt to?
Ugh, to all those people who don't register threats unless their mystics or over $20. (I know people like this)
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
The above scenario doesn't work as fast as you described because you play 2 lands on turn four and five. Of course, this could be ignored if the first turn was "Island, Sol Ring, Amulet of Vigor".
1 Ulamog 1 ◊ W Avacyn W ◊ U Memnarch U ◊ B Endrek B ◊ R Urabrask R ◊ G Yeva G
It's not whether something is expensive or not. How could you not understand the existence of poor threat assessment? It's a multiplayer game and good/bad players make mistakes all the time.
Do people play perfect magic?
I know it's there, but sometimes it's an easy choice. Perfect magic would be lame. I've had some of my opponents play bad magic and it just ruined the game. Example #1: A player cast Jokulhaups on turn 5 with a Gideon Jura out, 2 other blue players besides me with open mana didn't counter it...I said, "what the heck guys, seriously?" They replied, "I wanted to see if Gideon could kill us all"
I'm not playing 40 counters.dec, so I didn't have a counter spell. Someone at the table was playing Teferi, go go bad magic.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Gideon scares me. I've been in too many games where if he resolves, that player wins the game. I don't like rolling over like that, do you enjoy giving up on turn 5?
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
This is an oxymoron. High threat cards that consistently receive poor threat assessment are low profile, high threat cards. There are many categories of poor threat assessment, and this is a minor one, but it is a thing.
I do, but I guess I wanted to find out and found out.
Propaganda
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
Bazaar Trader
Mindmoil
Words of Wind
Puca's Mischief
So looking at the board, I really don't have much in the way of obvious threats. I have some detererrents in play, but nothing that says, OMG kill it now. What is really going on and what could I play in RUW that could pretty much finish the game, without going infinite? I don't think threat assessment is as obvious as people think.
On a side note, I was playing a game, and one guy is playing Riku, and he casts a Consecrated Sphinx copied, and it resolves. On my turn I cast a sphinx and it gets countered. I laugh. The guy with the counter said he couldn't allow three sphinx into play, but I guess the one guy drawing his library was ok......He did the same thing with P. Titan later in the game.......
You sure seems fun to play against. Oh, wait a blue deck run away. I can't think of cards to deal with blue-heavy control/combo decks.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW