So there's the card. How good is it in EDH? I'm thinking about getting ONE for myself so the Jace, the mind sculptor fiasco doesn't happen again.
Are you going to be using him to mill (yourself or opponents) or shooting to get his ultimate off. Either way he's a bit difficult to keep alive very long. He can be useful if put in the right deck but just tossing him into something cause it's got blue won't do much good.
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So there's the card. How good is it in EDH? I'm thinking about getting ONE for myself so the Jace, the mind sculptor fiasco doesn't happen again.
In general, it is difficult to keep planeswalkers around long enough to pull off their ultimate abilities, especially if it takes more than one turn of buildup to achieve.
So let's look at his other abilities.
His +1 draws you a card (good) and mills any player for 1. The power of the second part of this ability is pretty mediocre. If you have a graveyard-based deck, it can fuel it, but barely. It's rarely useful against an enemy unless they are foolish enough to do a sorcery speed Vampiric Tutor-effect (which is pretty much limited to Personal Tutor, Imperial Seal, Cruel Tutor, and Liliana Vess, or bad players).
His +0 is the bad part of his +1, but on a slightly larger scale. Still not very worthwhile.
So what we really have is a Honden of Seeing Winds, only it has some mediocre mill potential, a draw the turn you play it, and the threat of being a HUGE draw spell, in exchange for being much easier to remove.
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I could see combining it with an active Bloodchief's Ascension and some profliferation and Underworld Dreams to make those cards hurt, maybe couple that with some other tax effects and some things like Arcane Laboratory. But that's building around the jace a bit and you'd be better off using other things in his slot. Though Concecrated Sphinx is pretty much an auto include if you want to build around jace3.0, as are most any effects triggering on mill/draw. Especially if you load up ways to empty opponents hands (Myojin of Night's Reach and some heavy proliferation engines for example). And at that pointh Leyline of the Void is pretty mandatory.
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I'd use him in a GUB graveyard shenanigans deck like The Mimeoplasm, or in a dedicated mill deck like Szadek, Lord of Secrets. Otherwise, he's probably never going to get his ultimate off.
I think you're over-reaching if you're trying to make him a good addition to your EDH deck. Card like this are annoying enough for you to paint a big target on yourself, so most of the time, you will end up drawing maybe 2 cards for 5 CMC. There are much better draw spells such as Mind Spring and Blue Sun's Zenith that gives people less incentives to counter it or attack you. And honestly, if you just want to cancel out Jace v2.0, run Jace Beleren. He is slightly better, faster, and more disposable.
I'd use him in a GUB graveyard shenanigans deck like The Mimeoplasm, or in a dedicated mill deck like Szadek, Lord of Secrets. Otherwise, he's probably never going to get his ultimate off.
@op: I really like all the Jace's. I think Jace1.0 is the best one to use if you want card draw that flies under the radar. Jace2.0 is the nuts. Jace3 seems like the most restrictive in it's design; his +0 ability is his way of asking for an Ass Whuppin' if you're using it on your opponents.
I think Jace3.0 is bull. It's got some of the worst abilities at the most restrictive mana cost. Super-Jace should've been 5cmc, this Jace should have been 4cmc.
It seems that Wizards was trying to breathe more life into mill decks with M12, adding a "mill planeswalker" and stuff like Visions of Beyond. But since mill decks don't play many creatures, they need a faster wincon than Jace3.0 and they can't block for him anyway, so I think they failed in that regard, too.
tl;dr Jace3.0 isn't worth it.
EDIT: That goes for Legacy and other formats, too. Some cards are terrible in most formats but good in EDH (like Coalition Victory), but I don't think this anime-lookin' Jace is one of them.
He is pretty nice in a deck with green and doubling season....
He is not a auto include in every deck for sure. But In recursion decks self milling 10 is not so bad. I think he is probably a better edh card then Jace 2.
I'd use him in a GUB graveyard shenanigans deck like The Mimeoplasm, or in a dedicated mill deck like Szadek, Lord of Secrets. Otherwise, he's probably never going to get his ultimate off.
That's what I use him for. In my Mimeoplasm deck he's basically Fog + Self-Mill for 10. Anything beyond that is a nice bonus.
He is pretty nice in a deck with green and doubling season....
He is not a auto include in every deck for sure. But In recursion decks self milling 10 is not so bad. I think he is probably a better edh card then Jace 2.
Lol I'd take that sorcery spell any day 3UU - Choose any number of players to draw 20 cards
A smart player wouldn't let Jace 3.0 die to simple removal or 2/2's. Only time I've seen it dropped was after a boardwipe, we all got Mindtwist'd, and Tormod's Crypt'd.
Don't say new Jace because you can't defend or decide when to drop him. A good magic can win with a bad card, a bad magic can lose with the best card (Jace, the Mind Sculptor in Standard). What are you?
I agree that Jace 3.0 really only has a place to shine in a deck like the mimeoplasm where his first two ability are both beneficial. Drawing a card and milling an opponent for 1 is good, and milling myself for 10 is better.
I agree that Jace 3.0 really only has a place to shine in a deck like the mimeoplasm where his first two ability are both beneficial. Drawing a card and milling an opponent for 1 is good, and milling myself for 10 is better.
With black accessible, you just time your Jace 3.0 correctly after a board wipe. Sounds good to me. Just don't play it if you don't have a game plan to protect it (ie. some creatures after a board wipe alongside your Jace)
I'd use him in a GUB graveyard shenanigans deck like The Mimeoplasm, or in a dedicated mill deck like Szadek, Lord of Secrets. Otherwise, he's probably never going to get his ultimate off.
I got a Jace out of the first packs I ever bought for M12 yesterday. I immediately threw him into my Mimeoplasm deck. He works really well in that deck. The one thing that keeps him alive better in this format is the fact that an all out attack isn't as common in the midgame here with other players remaining that can counterattack the opponent that is solely doing it to hit your Jace. Usually, my Jace comes down from being tutored for by something like Rune Scarred Demon. I tend to have 4 to 5 creatures in play to protect it before it ever comes out.....I have NEVER actually had Jace directly attacked. I have only ever lost him to Oblivion Stone for instance.
BTW....I seem to like Voroch as a General from that deck with Mimeoplasm better. Voroch seems very useful as soon as you have the mana, whereas, I found Mimeoplasm having to hold off until there was something useful actually in the graveyards. Then again, my commander deck is basically the precon with just a few changes, including Rune Scarred Demon, Jace, Ponder, Divination(although this should be something like Concentrate instead) and I think there was one other change I made.
If I can find one for my Wrexial build, I'd probably throw it in there. Other than that, it's not that great for EDH. Sure, a Glimpse the Unthinkable every turn looks cool at first, but the chances of it surviving to round 2 are slim to none, and drop every round after that. Maybe in a 5c Planeswalker deck or a proliferate-themed deck, but it's not something for every U deck.
He pluses to draw a card, which may make him better than Jace Beleren in this format. You can mill yourself with either the +1 or the 0, which is actually something you can build around in this format. Not to mention, he's amazing at combating slow tutors like Congregation at Dawn.
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So there's the card. How good is it in EDH? I'm thinking about getting ONE for myself so the Jace, the mind sculptor fiasco doesn't happen again.
Are you going to be using him to mill (yourself or opponents) or shooting to get his ultimate off. Either way he's a bit difficult to keep alive very long. He can be useful if put in the right deck but just tossing him into something cause it's got blue won't do much good.
In general, it is difficult to keep planeswalkers around long enough to pull off their ultimate abilities, especially if it takes more than one turn of buildup to achieve.
So let's look at his other abilities.
His +1 draws you a card (good) and mills any player for 1. The power of the second part of this ability is pretty mediocre. If you have a graveyard-based deck, it can fuel it, but barely. It's rarely useful against an enemy unless they are foolish enough to do a sorcery speed Vampiric Tutor-effect (which is pretty much limited to Personal Tutor, Imperial Seal, Cruel Tutor, and Liliana Vess, or bad players).
His +0 is the bad part of his +1, but on a slightly larger scale. Still not very worthwhile.
So what we really have is a Honden of Seeing Winds, only it has some mediocre mill potential, a draw the turn you play it, and the threat of being a HUGE draw spell, in exchange for being much easier to remove.
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I was going to suggest graveyard shenanigans with Dralnu, Lich Lord or Wrexial, the Risen Deep.
@op: I really like all the Jace's. I think Jace1.0 is the best one to use if you want card draw that flies under the radar. Jace2.0 is the nuts. Jace3 seems like the most restrictive in it's design; his +0 ability is his way of asking for an Ass Whuppin' if you're using it on your opponents.
It seems that Wizards was trying to breathe more life into mill decks with M12, adding a "mill planeswalker" and stuff like Visions of Beyond. But since mill decks don't play many creatures, they need a faster wincon than Jace3.0 and they can't block for him anyway, so I think they failed in that regard, too.
tl;dr Jace3.0 isn't worth it.
EDIT: That goes for Legacy and other formats, too. Some cards are terrible in most formats but good in EDH (like Coalition Victory), but I don't think this anime-lookin' Jace is one of them.
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He is not a auto include in every deck for sure. But In recursion decks self milling 10 is not so bad. I think he is probably a better edh card then Jace 2.
That's what I use him for. In my Mimeoplasm deck he's basically Fog + Self-Mill for 10. Anything beyond that is a nice bonus.
Eh, I'd +1 him at myself first, then 0 myself for the rest of the game.
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GUR Riku of Two Reflections
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Lol I'd take that sorcery spell any day 3UU - Choose any number of players to draw 20 cards
Don't say new Jace because you can't defend or decide when to drop him. A good magic can win with a bad card, a bad magic can lose with the best card (Jace, the Mind Sculptor in Standard). What are you?
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With black accessible, you just time your Jace 3.0 correctly after a board wipe. Sounds good to me. Just don't play it if you don't have a game plan to protect it (ie. some creatures after a board wipe alongside your Jace)
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That was also my belief on Jace the MS, but everyone still insisted it go into
anything that has an island in it
That's what I'm planning on using him for
BTW....I seem to like Voroch as a General from that deck with Mimeoplasm better. Voroch seems very useful as soon as you have the mana, whereas, I found Mimeoplasm having to hold off until there was something useful actually in the graveyards. Then again, my commander deck is basically the precon with just a few changes, including Rune Scarred Demon, Jace, Ponder, Divination(although this should be something like Concentrate instead) and I think there was one other change I made.
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