MTG Salvation

Quote from Rats

My point is that things make sense as they are. Did you just take my last post out of context to condescend or have you not been reading the thread?

Sorry, the fact that you said the same argument that's been said since the beginning of the thread with no development made me think that you hadn't read the thread. Besides, the "it makes sense how it is" argument is just an empty argument against change. I can easily counter that by saying that it makes sense the other way too, which it does.

Quote from Feaor

Aaron Forsythe made a comment on one of his random card comments about how we won't see Hybrid for a long while because of the color bleed and warping issues that became apparent with a heavy hybrid theme in Shadowmoor and Eventide so more Hybrid staples coming soon is a non-issue.

As for the original color identity change? I was pretty vocally for it, I saw literally no reason why people shouldn't be allowed to play those generals since they functioned exactly like a colored/multicolored card unlike Hybrids which are "monocolored" cards which function exactly like multicolored cards.

I'd say hybrids as a subtheme could come back, considering they were great and popular in Ravnica. Just not as a main theme, because that requires a lot of stretching and bleeding. Their execution in Alara Reborn was also done well.

I wasn't saying you were against the original color identity change, I was merely making a comparison. Some people argued that it should stay the same because Memnarch was a powerful general.

But just because the old rule happened to solve the potential problem of Memnarch being an OP general doesn't mean it was a good rule. Just like the hybrid rule - just because it somewhat solves the problem of hybrid staples doesn't mean it's a good rule. If those cards are the only real problems, they can be dealt with individually.

Edit: I got trolled, I fought back, this doesn't help the discussion at all, apologies to others trying to discuss things in this thread.

No clue where the discussion ran off too, but after reading the first few pages, my thoughts are this:
I don't like the idea of allowing hybrids in mono color decks, just because I think it would end up making the mono color decks easier to build. And in a casual format such as this, I like the challenge of being limited in the deck building. This is one of the biggest draws to EDH for me.
But I would like to see some of the color identity rules change. Example - alternate mana costs. I would love to see some of the bringers ran in EDH. They are big, flavorful, and powerful. But I don't like how they are only ran in 5 color decks currently. It limits a flavorful card from seeing very much play at all, which is what I don't like.

That's a good point merfolkinacan, but the question is how best to make them allowable.
A blanket rule is better than individual card rulings, so you can easily tell what is allowed and what isn't without consulting a list, but on the other hand, what kind of blanket rule can you make that doesn't have the wrong kind of repercussions with other cards.
Then again, a house rule that simply allows them would always work.

even with the article i'm not sure why this is even being considered. every other format has had combo neutered over and over again because they make the game "uninteractive" or "unfun". while i personally love combos, i'm not sure why they should be overly encouraged by amending this rule.
I always liked th restrictions based on the color of your general/commander. it encourages people to think more when deck building. i don't think it nees to be changed, but if it did i wouldn'twant to get rid of it entirely to allow any color cards but restict mana. perhaps if it must be changed make it so that all cards have to share a color with your commander?

Quote from MRdown2urth

Staples are bad, though. Goodstuff decks are bad. Urabrask is bad. He's the epitome of goodstuff general. Stuck on which monored general [that you don't base the deck around] to use? Urabrask fits right in with the other 60 cards you pulled off the Top 50 list to make your deck.

You sir are ignorant. Staples arn't bad, players that have a list of them that is so long one has maybe 10 slots left in a deck to be creative with are bad. Goodstuff decks are not bad, players who think they have to have one way of winning are bad, Urabrask isn't bad, players who don't think aggro should be viable in EDH are bad. In general I think your missguided attempts to shoot down other peoples playstyles is overly flawed and you need reconsider your statements before making blanket ones that can offend other people.

I have to say that I am very surprised that the majority (according to the poll) would disagree with this change. I find the change intuitive and elegant; as well as opening up all kinds of deckbuilding space not previously explored. I would really enjoy revamping my Iname deck after a change like this were implemented.

Okay, so, I guess I'll put in my two cents here. Frankly? I do like the idea of being able to use hybrid cards in mono or only slightly off-color decks. Provided it's something along the order of "A hybrid mana symbol counts as either of the colors printed on it for purposes of Color Identity. A hybrid card can only be used in your deck if all mana symbols match your General's Color Identity." This allows say, both Red and Blue decks to run Inside Out while keeping Advice from the Fae out of Red and Flame Javelin out of Blue. And Beseech the Queen is right out since people are going to continue to complain about that. To the same effect, I feel like Phyrexian mana should still count as its given color only. Flavor wise, the idea of Phyrexian mana seemed to me like, you're converting your own life force into mana of X color. So even though you could theoretically proxy your life force for any color of mana, if you're playing with a Red or Blue aligned General and have no dealings with say, Black, how are you going to know how to turn your life-force into Black mana? Flavor-wise for hybrids, I think it still makes sense.

I mean, let's say your General is Teferi, and together, you two only have access to Blue mana. You're running around the battlefield, pulling spell after havoc-wreaking spell from the Aether. One day, you discover the spell Call the Skybreaker. It's... a little different that most of the spells you've conjured before, there's something... odd about the way its attuned. But sure enough, you conjure up the right amount of Blue mana, and voila, you've cast the spell, and no magical backlash or anything. While this spell clearly feels different than your normal repertoire, it is still clearly aligned with the color Blue and you can cast it with no problems. You've come across spells that seemed "partially" Blue before, but you were unable to cast them, because without being attuned to all the proper colors, you were unable to even draw the spell out, but that was clearly not the case here. The strange feeling of this spell simply comes from the fact that it is attuned in such a way that a Red-aligned wizard elsewhere in the world could pull that same spell from the Aether with the same amount of ease.


As for arguments against specific cards, I think, as people have said, if opening up hybrid cards to mono-colored decks or something to that effect would create problems just because of certain cards, then those cards should be dealt with on an individual basis. I mean, as an example, you can already do plenty of degenerate things with Dream Halls, even if you don't have hybrid splash, and even if did splash in a few hybrids, what are you going to cast off of Dream Halls that you couldn't cast with it anyway? Playing hybrids in a mono-blue deck? All of your hybrids will still be Blue, and you won't have any mono-colored spells of their other colors to abuse anyway.

Additionally... I'd have to go find the specific post, but... someone said something along the lines of "Unmake is both Black and White. Simply because it's Black it doesn't belong in a White deck". Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds, and Kobolds of Kher Keep. You can literally shove these guys into any EDH deck. Same with Transguild Courier, and he's all colors. I don't think the world is going to end because a few white decks start running Unmake or Debtor's Knell just because they're "technically" Black in addition to being White.

That said, I'm still not sure how to word something such a change elegantly into rules text, and I think it is a little better to keep the rules as they presently are, because it's (at least from my perspective) simpler and keeps the format accessible to new players who might want to try it out.

Quote from Temmen Erava

That said, I'm still not sure how to word something such a change elegantly into rules text, and I think it is a little better to keep the rules as they presently are, because it's (at least from my perspective) simpler and keeps the format accessible to new players who might want to try it out.

"Hybrid mana symbols may be treated as either color when calculating color identity, if and only if the card is multicolored."

That lets you run in a mono-white deck, or in a red/blue deck, but keeps things like Beseech the Queen in black decks.